Review of i28 P2 on Massively

[Riverdusk]

I tested the new mob health regen rates and posted about it.  Specifically though I was testing the difference between just spamming entangle (a low damage VERY slow dot) on a live boss and a beta test boss.  It basically made entangle worthless as a damage power, (not that it was great before), at least at the boss level.  Again I suggested that controller single target immobilizes should have their damage sped up and not take 9 seconds to actually do their already pitiful damage.

 

Would swear even a while ago there was a dev feedback thread asking players how controller immobilizes could be improved and have more people take them.  Speeding up the damage was probably the #1 suggestion.  Can't find it now though so maybe I was imagining it.   If it did happen, obviously devs didn't remember it either.

 

Edit: Didn't help that there was no focused feedback thread for the health regen change.  People had to bring it up in various other threads randomly.

Edited Monday at 12:39 AM by Riverdusk

[Gadzookery]

On 5/31/2025 at 1:33 AM, Ruin Mage said:

Trashing Bree here on the forums, a place she likely reads, is real small pp behavior. She has a view/opinion, that's all. Similar with the article author.

The opening line about inheriting from PStudios is...rough though.

 

Bree makes a post about toxic positivity and how if you criticise HC you get a bunch of people leaping down your throat. A bunch of people on this thread proceed to claim she's wrong and do so by... leaping down her throat and getting insulting.

Yeahhh she's VERY wrong huh?

[Wavicle]

Just now, Gadzookery said:

 

Bree makes a post about toxic positivity and how if you criticise HC you get a bunch of people leaping down your throat. A bunch of people on this thread proceed to claim she's wrong and do so by... leaping down her throat and getting insulting.

Yeahhh she's VERY wrong huh?

Criticizing is one thing, talking shit is another. The article and the comments are primarily the latter.

[Octogoat]

7 minutes ago, Gadzookery said:

 

Bree makes a post about toxic positivity and how if you criticise HC you get a bunch of people leaping down your throat. A bunch of people on this thread proceed to claim she's wrong and do so by... leaping down her throat and getting insulting.

Yeahhh she's VERY wrong huh?

If a boxer claims "if I get knocked out I win" then gets knocked out I guess they win the match...

[Gadzookery]

17 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

Criticizing is one thing, talking shit is another. The article and the comments are primarily the latter.

So the correct response was to do a multi page crashout over it full of accusations? I think the fact you interpret someone saying "Hey I don't like this change" as "talking shit" as if they're not allowed to not like something, really kinda just shows HC's issues when it comes to being criticized.

 

10 minutes ago, Octogoat said:

If a boxer claims "if I get knocked out I win" then gets knocked out I guess they win the match...

 

I mean there was an easy way to deal with this which was to act normal about her opinion.

 

As others have agreed with her statement in this thread, and its something I've seen before, there's clearly an issue with some of the playerbase in regards to how they handle criticism, both harsh and like. It's like a constant perceived attack from some of you. You don't need to defend HC from EVERY single statement on the planet. Let people have gripes. All its caused is underlying dissent because people feel they can't speak up without 87 white knights descending on you to defend poor helpless CoH.

Some of the stuff in the discord and forums that I've seen aggressively shut down is just plain weird.

 

Like for example, I'd love for someone to explain what it was about Bree's statement that BOTHERED them that much to this level. Like did Captain Fabulous need to have a multi-page crashout over some internet lady stating her CoH gripe? 

 

I disagree with things said in the article and I agree with things. Either way the people in that article commited no crime yet are being made out to be bitter and malicious. It's WEIRD.

Edited Monday at 12:29 AM by Gadzookery

[Wavicle]

Ridiculous exaggeration.

 

You’re the one being toxically positive about this nonsense article complaining about a patch that’s STILL IN DEVELOPMENT.

 

If they’re allowed to criticize the game in their article, then we’re allowed to criticize the article.

[Gadzookery]

1 minute ago, Wavicle said:

Ridiculous exaggeration.

 

You’re the one being toxically positive about this nonsense article complaining about a patch that’s STILL IN DEVELOPMENT.

 

If they’re allowed to criticize the game in their article, then we’re allowed to criticize the article.

 

How am I being toxically positive when I haven't been positive about the article? Also Captain Fabulous calling the article writer a twit, saying him and Bree have no clue what they're talking about (they DO have a clue because it's THEIR opinion, they know their opinion it's their mind), claims that its a "hit piece" is not criticism that's just straight up lashing out. For what they pretty much admit later is because they have a personal attachment to the patch because they were an early beta tester and thus feels personally slighted, and is overall just taking this article WAY too personally.

 

Look at Biostem's response to the same screenshot, THAT is criticism. Calling someone a twit is not, that's an insult. 

 

I feel like too many people over the years have mentioned the whole people leaping down their throats whenever they bring up a gripe or criticism thing. Enough that it's not longer a coincidence, it's clearly an issue being ignored. And thus questions have to be raised regarding how people behave when criticism is thrown Homecoming's way.

 

Homecoming is not under attack, it is not some damsel in distress that needs to be saved. 

[Wavicle]

Opinions based on nothing (the article repeatedly makes assumptions about dev motivations) are worth nothing, hence “no idea what they’re talking about”.

[Gadzookery]

2 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

Opinions based on nothing (the article repeatedly makes assumptions about dev motivations) are worth nothing, hence “no idea what they’re talking about”.

Oh ok that means they deserve insults thrown at them then.

[Wavicle]

It was the derisive, holier than thou tone that got them that.

[Gadzookery]

10 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

It was the derisive, holier than thou tone that got them that.

 

That STILL doesn't make it deserved? Like holy shit it's an article with some opinions that doesn't mean burn them at the stake. Anyways, I'm just of the opinion that leaping down Bree's throat is not the best way to disprove her criticism of "If you say anything that isn't glowing praise of the game they leap down your throat"

Cause lets face it, what's her opinion gonna do? Kill the game? No, so there's no need for the extreme defense. Her statement could have very easily been ignored tbh. Now if anything, it's just further highlighted the issue as being correct. 

[Wavicle]

Nah.

 

“Stop being so defensive!”

 

”I’m not!”

 

”See, you’re doing it again!”

 

 It’s nonsense when little children do it, and it’s nonsense here.

[Gadzookery]

5 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

Nah.

 

“Stop being so defensive!”

 

”I’m not!”

 

”See, you’re doing it again!”

 

 It’s nonsense when little children do it, and it’s nonsense here.

 

You're not getting it.

 

1. I never said YOU were being defensive, I do now, because again, throat leaping. In fact I even named the person: Captain Fabulous. Is that you? No? So why were you all up in my shit about it?

2. Bree's comment didn't need to be addressed. At all. Like the way you position it, is that people HAD to address what she said, like they HAD to defend it. There was an option: Just ignore what she said and move on. It was a comment in the comments section not even the article itself, it has no influence on the game, the comment isn't gonna kill the game, there's no need to defend it. There was no need to screenshot it, there was no need to post it here, there was no need to insult her over it. All that did was completely prove her point right that if you bring up a criticism people leap down your throat over it. The way to "win" that was to ignore her, not completely prove her right. 

 

Because lets face it, she is right. There seems to be a group of people who are absolutely determined for whatever reason, to make sure anyone who gives feedback know that they're completely 100% wrong about everything. Both on the forums and in the discord, any sort of feedback you give is bound to be "WELL AKSHULLY'd" by someone who isn't a GM at all. Some people just do that in every thread. Like for example in the Pyrotechnic control feedback thread, someone suggested changing the name to Light control as Pyrotechnic might be confusing and people respond with "Its just a name who cares!!" like that feedback wasn't for you, it was for the GMs, its their choice to accept it or not. Nobody asked for your hot ass opinion to other people's hot ass opinions. And there just seems to be people on that thread and other threads who just sit and camp the thread and reply to every piece of feedback, making sure that person knows that they're completely wrong about everything that they said.

 

They're FEEDBACK threads, the channel on the discord is a FEEDBACK channel, its meant for feedback, whether you disagree with it or not. But eventually you get shouted down enough that you just give up giving feedback. Then after that's done everyone goes back to being "happy" and "satisfied" in that weird Stepford Wife "everything's fine" sorta way. The same happened with the Discord channel. Feedback there has slowed to a crawl, even with this new beta and patch. Nobody goes there anymore because they just don't feel welcome or listened to there because any sort of feedback that you give ends up with some rude or consedscending remark from Take One who has just completely sapped the energy from the channel and ensures that you know you're as unwelcome as possible. Like when someone suggested a Double XP weekend the other day, did it really need that sarcastic ass remark Take One? Did they need to be belittled?

 

Again, stop acting like this game is a poor damsel in distress that needs defending from the EVUL H8RS!!! Homecoming is not under attack because a couple of people dislike a few patch changes. 

[Glacier Peak]

1 hour ago, Gadzookery said:

Like when someone suggested a Double XP weekend the other day, did it really need that sarcastic ass remark Take One? Did they need to be belittled?

I resemble that remark! Pitchforks at the ready!

 

Edit: Look at this devisive response, have you no shame!

Edited Monday at 02:24 AM by Glacier Peak

[Seed22]

1 hour ago, Gadzookery said:

 

You're not getting it.

 

1. I never said YOU were being defensive, I do now, because again, throat leaping. In fact I even named the person: Captain Fabulous. Is that you? No? So why were you all up in my shit about it?

2. Bree's comment didn't need to be addressed. At all. Like the way you position it, is that people HAD to address what she said, like they HAD to defend it. There was an option: Just ignore what she said and move on. It was a comment in the comments section not even the article itself, it has no influence on the game, the comment isn't gonna kill the game, there's no need to defend it. There was no need to screenshot it, there was no need to post it here, there was no need to insult her over it. All that did was completely prove her point right that if you bring up a criticism people leap down your throat over it. The way to "win" that was to ignore her, not completely prove her right. 

 

Because lets face it, she is right. There seems to be a group of people who are absolutely determined for whatever reason, to make sure anyone who gives feedback know that they're completely 100% wrong about everything. Both on the forums and in the discord, any sort of feedback you give is bound to be "WELL AKSHULLY'd" by someone who isn't a GM at all. Some people just do that in every thread. Like for example in the Pyrotechnic control feedback thread, someone suggested changing the name to Light control as Pyrotechnic might be confusing and people respond with "Its just a name who cares!!" like that feedback wasn't for you, it was for the GMs, its their choice to accept it or not. Nobody asked for your hot ass opinion to other people's hot ass opinions. And there just seems to be people on that thread and other threads who just sit and camp the thread and reply to every piece of feedback, making sure that person knows that they're completely wrong about everything that they said.

 

They're FEEDBACK threads, the channel on the discord is a FEEDBACK channel, its meant for feedback, whether you disagree with it or not. But eventually you get shouted down enough that you just give up giving feedback. Then after that's done everyone goes back to being "happy" and "satisfied" in that weird Stepford Wife "everything's fine" sorta way. The same happened with the Discord channel. Feedback there has slowed to a crawl, even with this new beta and patch. Nobody goes there anymore because they just don't feel welcome or listened to there because any sort of feedback that you give ends up with some rude or consedscending remark from Take One who has just completely sapped the energy from the channel and ensures that you know you're as unwelcome as possible. Like when someone suggested a Double XP weekend the other day, did it really need that sarcastic ass remark Take One? Did they need to be belittled?

 

Again, stop acting like this game is a poor damsel in distress that needs defending from the EVUL H8RS!!! Homecoming is not under attack because a couple of people dislike a few patch changes. 

I think because a lot of people sadly have become overly attached to  CoH

 

Thats very sad, but it is the way it is. They, for whatever reason got too attached to the game and made CoH their whole personality, so when a criticism or hey, even a jab, is lobbied, its as if a jab was lobbied at THEM personally. 

 

Take a look at how people reacted with the initial shutdown. Yeah it was sad, but eventually if you were normal you moved on with your life and kind of just hoped it'd come back some day in your lifetime if possible, yet some...spiraled, if forum post are to be believed. Then it came back, huzzah! 

 

Again, if you were normal, you were happy and enjoyed the game. Maybe gave feedback, sometimes it's passionate. Hey, we've all been there. 

 

The abnornal behavior only really appears in situations like this, where because of an over attachment to CoH either out of fear of it disappearing or just sadly having nothing left, they turn feral to opinions and articles. 

 

People are dogging Elden Ring Nightreign and dogged First Beserker. You know what I do? Not care and keep playing. 

 

Thats what adults do.

[Maelwys]

16 hours ago, tidge said:

• (AFK) Farming characters that rely on DoT... this is going to slow them down

 

FWIW I tried running a few of my non-Tanker AFK Farmer builds (like my RadM/Stone Brute) through some of their usual AE maps on Brainstorm. The difference in kill speed is not noteworthy.

 

There is however a major reduction in Tanker killspeeds, for both Active and AFK Farming. Proc activation chances in most AoEs and damage auras are lower than before, sure, but it's the diminishing returns in overcap damage that is really hurting the times compared to before. Only really bothersome for Active Farmers however, since AFK farmers were never pulling obscene inf/XP per hour anyway... and as I've mentioned previously IMO this really isn't going to impact AE Farmers much since it's quite possible to just switch to a different AT for Active Farming (Brute or Scrapper or VEAT or even a Dominator or Blaster!) if you're there to spam clicks + insps. Heck, if Bots/ hadn't had their damage nerfed a few pages ago then a MM would be a contender too.

 

 

[UltraAlt]

On 5/30/2025 at 8:30 PM, srmalloy said:

To be fair, it's not just the people who are forming teams for a TF and announcing it as 'speed', but the players in the team deciding to rush the objectives to get it over with and get the rewards quickly, so their perspective may be influenced as much by the rest of the team pushing for faster completion as it is from the people soliciting for 'speed' TFs.

 

I hate to have to be overly strict, but I am if I'm recruiting a leveling XP team.

I recruited for the team. I'm going to keep the star. If you try to turn my Taskforce into a speed run, you will be warned before you are kicked from the team ... and I will give no warning if it is the last mission and someone races ahead to the end of the mission and teleports everyone to them .. that's an auto kick.

 

Someone trying to disrupt what setup for myself and others isn't going to have much time to complain before I put them on /gingore. I don't want to team with them again if at all possible (/gingore is only so long of a list ... I'm so glad that I haven't had to add anyone to it for very long time a this point)

[Snarky]

8 hours ago, Wavicle said:

Criticizing is one thing, talking shit is another. The article and the comments are primarily the latter.

You do not understand critical analysis do you?   

[Wavicle]

Just now, Snarky said:

You do not understand critical analysis do you?   

I hope you’re not seriously suggesting that article constitutes a critical analysis?

[Snarky]

8 hours ago, Wavicle said:

Opinions based on nothing (the article repeatedly makes assumptions about dev motivations) are worth nothing, hence “no idea what they’re talking about”.

No.  The article asked questions and stated that it was unknown what ghe Devs were doing.  
 

Not really reading for context?

[Snarky]

6 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

I hope you’re not seriously suggesting that article constitutes a critical analysis?

Well, some folks have pointed out that it was critical. And it was an analysis…

[Wavicle]

1 minute ago, Snarky said:

it was an analysis…

Agree to disagree

[Lines]

Don't forget to take nice, long, deep breaths. Maybe go for a walk. Drink some water.

[Octogoat]

8 hours ago, Seed22 said:

I think because a lot of people sadly have become overly attached to  CoH

 

Thats very sad, but it is the way it is. They, for whatever reason got too attached to the game and made CoH their whole personality, so when a criticism or hey, even a jab, is lobbied, its as if a jab was lobbied at THEM personally. 

 

Take a look at how people reacted with the initial shutdown. Yeah it was sad, but eventually if you were normal you moved on with your life and kind of just hoped it'd come back some day in your lifetime if possible, yet some...spiraled, if forum post are to be believed. Then it came back, huzzah! 

 

Again, if you were normal, you were happy and enjoyed the game. Maybe gave feedback, sometimes it's passionate. Hey, we've all been there. 

 

The abnornal behavior only really appears in situations like this, where because of an over attachment to CoH either out of fear of it disappearing or just sadly having nothing left, they turn feral to opinions and articles. 

 

People are dogging Elden Ring Nightreign and dogged First Beserker. You know what I do? Not care and keep playing. 

 

Thats what adults do.

You've got a very good point I tend to create characters in my head while taking care of my mom all day or working at the pet shelter. But it's a coping mechanism and destresser. People do the same for Warhammer, DND, or any number of other hobbies. I'm also absolutely bonkers about crochet, I even crochet while playing coh. But is it sad? No more so than any other hobby fan.

 

But I think we do need to take a step back and see the warts otherwise they just get more abrasive.

Edited Monday at 11:23 AM by Octogoat

[tidge]

I'm not on Discord, and so I can't comment on whatever might happen there, but... I've read the articles (not the attached comments section) and I don't think the article is particularly well constructed.

 

(-1) The initial diversion into "why speed, bro?" struck me as a little too antagonistic... at least for what followed.

 

(+1) Controllers can be slow at doing damage, especially when compared to other ATs... but there is a more fundamental issue that I don't think the author understood 'why speed?' matters (to all ATs)

 

(-½) 99%+ of the games rewards are for defeats. <- This is the #1 reason IMO to try to 'balance' ATs such that they can solo complete standard content taking amounts of time that are roughly the same order of magnitude. Controllers can be there, but they need to make certain build choices and/or leverage damaging attacks from START vendors (the latter, especially for low level content). Let's face it: There is no other reward schema that makes sense for CoX; changing this would fundamentally change the game.

 

(-½) I think the article misrepresented what the i28p2 changes are doing to Controllers. I'd dock more here, but the (not mentioned in the article) +Regen critter changes will slow down Controller clear times (for bosses)

 

(-1) The doubling-down on "Controllers being nerfed" by calling out Seeds of Confusion... especially on an opinion piece about "game balance". We all know that Seeds is a level 8 pick that is better than the level 26 Mass Confusion ('better' because of base accuracy, if nothing else). If nothing else, we knew that eventually this T5 power was going to be readjusted for 'balance'... it would be pretty difficult to make new Control sets that could compete with Plant Control. The closing with "I don’t generally play Controllers" is somewhat telling IMO.

 

I'm neutral (leaning negative) on the ignoring of %damage from procs while mentioning +4/x8 content (and Hamidon raids). %damage helps Controllers (and other ATs) so I just can't tell if the author is ignoring them or doesn't know about them. The mention of the "purple triangles" is IMO a weird editor's choice... was the editorial team expecting controllers to all of a sudden lock down AVs without trying, or was it throwing shade that they think controllers aren't needed for some content? (hint: no AT is needed.)