Judgement going grey when another player is using it

[DrRocket]

2 hours ago, Greycat said:

 

Here's the thing. You've just prevented people from using Judgement on (a) a large pull or (b) an ambush. And if there's no max range, (c) people on opposite sides of the map. For judgement? Absolutely not. 

 

There *are* powers, though, that I'd like to see something similar on. Single target rezzes, specifically. I've seen multiple people waste a rez on someone who went AFK or lost connection - and those tend to have a long cooldown. What I'd *like* to see is the first rez "stick" to that player - similar to when you have multiple people offering someone a team, they get the "Player is considering another offer," if one isn't accepted, further rezzes are blocked for some time (and the dead player gets a window on their screen they have to respond to.) 

 

 

The point I am trying to make is the game is allowing others to shoot duds because they activated their judgment just after another player did, and thus I am searching for a way for the players not to fire a dud and be able to keep their judgment available for another time. 

 

I do see your point with your comment about preventing another player in a different area of the map, perhaps the greyed button would have a radius based on the player who used the judgement.

 

But what I seek are workable solutions to prevent the phenomena of your judgement activating to only be a dud, because you activated yours fractions of a moment after.

 

If the grey out proposal as it overwhelmingly seems to be a no go, then I ask propose solutions, thank you

 

Regards

[Rudra]

30 minutes ago, DrRocket said:

The point I am trying to make is the game is allowing others to shoot duds because they activated their judgment just after another player did, and thus I am searching for a way for the players not to fire a dud and be able to keep their judgment available for another time. 

 

I do see your point with your comment about preventing another player in a different area of the map, perhaps the greyed button would have a radius based on the player who used the judgement.

 

But what I seek are workable solutions to prevent the phenomena of your judgement activating to only be a dud, because you activated yours fractions of a moment after.

 

If the grey out proposal as it overwhelmingly seems to be a no go, then I ask propose solutions, thank you

 

Regards

Which happens with absolutely every attack in the game including nukes. And also happens with heals. And rezzes. And you have already been told this repeatedly. Welcome to being on a team. Where the chaos that is combat means that not all of your abilities will get to be used to maximum effect or even at all at times.

[lemming]

Actually, there's a little bit of that with some of the adaptive recharge being applied to some powers.   Hit a bunch of targets, longer recharge. Hit none, very quick.  Maybe if we get that applied to judgements, etc... more so.  (though as pointed out, hell on some procs)

[Greycat]

3 hours ago, DrRocket said:

If the grey out proposal as it overwhelmingly seems to be a no go, then I ask propose solutions, thank you

 

 

Solution: Tell people you're going to use the power. 

Implementation time: 0 months 0 days 0 hours 0 minutes 0 seconds. 

 

Why should Judgement get this special treatment? Why not blaster nukes, which have had this issue since... issue 0? Or - well, pretty much every power that affects a target in the game? Should I not be able to throw a heal on someone because their health has just hit 100% from someone else's? Should I not be able to hit a target because the blaster's snipe is still winding up and would take that target to 0? Should I not be able to use the big nuke I'm in the middle of a spawn to set off because someone started clicking Judgement half a second ago, or vice versa? (And on the programmatic side, how many of these checks on how many targets do you want the server - because this *can't* be done client side - to do for every player in every mission continuously?) 

[golstat2003]

On 7/26/2025 at 2:05 PM, DrRocket said:

The point I am trying to make is the game is allowing others to shoot duds because they activated their judgment just after another player did, and thus I am searching for a way for the players not to fire a dud and be able to keep their judgment available for another time. 

 

I do see your point with your comment about preventing another player in a different area of the map, perhaps the greyed button would have a radius based on the player who used the judgement.

 

But what I seek are workable solutions to prevent the phenomena of your judgement activating to only be a dud, because you activated yours fractions of a moment after.

 

If the grey out proposal as it overwhelmingly seems to be a no go, then I ask propose solutions, thank you

 

Regards

 

The solution is for them to implement a Null the gull option that ONLY limits YOUR judgement. Not everyone elses.

[DrRocket]

11 hours ago, golstat2003 said:

 

The solution is for them to implement a Null the gull option that ONLY limits YOUR judgement. Not everyone elses.

How does that solve the issue?

 

I get it the initial solution I proposed is a not a good one, I have said this now many many many times. What I am asking for is for a solution to the issue?

[DrRocket]

Look folks, the problem I seek a solution to is:

 

When I fire my judgement, only moments after another player did, I see I am dancing the judgement animation and then see the other player's judgement go off by seeing the orange judgement graphic over the mobs, I had initially targeted. I usually do +4/8 content so the other player's judgement does not kill them, it just makes them mad. Then my graphic animation goes off, and I see a grey "judgement" animation that does no damage, and my judgement goes into cooldown.

 

So above is the situation I seek relief from, if my ability is going to be an auto dud, could it be possible for it to not go into cooldown. 

 

I have a question, you all likely know the answer: Why do the judgements do not stack?

 

Regards

[Rudra]

14 minutes ago, DrRocket said:

When I fire my judgement, only moments after another player did, I see I am dancing the judgement animation and then see the other player's judgement go off by seeing the orange judgement graphic over the mobs, I had initially targeted. I usually do +4/8 content so the other player's judgement does not kill them, it just makes them mad. Then my graphic animation goes off, and I see a grey "judgement" animation that does no damage, and my judgement goes into cooldown.

If the targets are still alive, then your Judgement should be going off and doing damage. If the targets are defeated by someone else, and the timing is close, then your Judgement should be going off anyway. And here is the part where I think you are confused. If the damage numbers you see are orange? Those are your damage numbers. Every time I team with anyone else, the damage that other person/those other people do is shown in grey numbers. Not orange. That tells me your Judgement is firing and doing damage. If your Judgement is not doing damage and your teammates' damage is in orange? Then please please PLEASE upload a video showing it. Because what you are saying is not making any sense.

 

18 minutes ago, DrRocket said:

 

I have a question, you all likely know the answer: Why do the judgements do not stack?

They do stack.

[Fade]

The issue DrRocket is experiencing does happen, specifically with Ion Judgement at all tiers. This isn't an issue with Pyronic Judgement, Cryonic Judgement, or any others (that I know of). I experience the issue fairly often in normal play at Incarnate levels, but obtaining video evidence would require filming an entire play session to have a chance to experience it.

 

I believe the issue is that, in order to prevent the chain from doubling back and hitting an enemy multiple times, the power applies an immunity to Ion Judgement damage after applying its own damage. Looking at Ion Core Judgement on City of Data shows that it applies an effect "Set Mode (Chain_Induction) (all affected targets) for 4s", as well as spawning an entity that casts Ion Core Judgement Jump 1. This power has a tag "Target Requires: !target.mode?(kChain_Induction)". I believe the ! in the tag means "not", so in plain english the tag would mean "as long as this target doesn't have the kChain_Induction mode". So if someone else's Ion Judgement tries to hit that entity, it will see the kChain_Induction tag on them and won't be able to target them. I don't think this is a bug, so much as a consequence of how the chain is designed, which is noticeably different from the only two other chains I can think of right now (Jolting Chain in Electric Control, and Trick Shot in Martial Assault).

[Rudra]

8 minutes ago, Fade said:

The issue DrRocket is experiencing does happen, specifically with Ion Judgement at all tiers. This isn't an issue with Pyronic Judgement, Cryonic Judgement, or any others (that I know of). I experience the issue fairly often in normal play at Incarnate levels, but obtaining video evidence would require filming an entire play session to have a chance to experience it.

 

I believe the issue is that, in order to prevent the chain from doubling back and hitting an enemy multiple times, the power applies an immunity to Ion Judgement damage after applying its own damage. Looking at Ion Core Judgement on City of Data shows that it applies an effect "Set Mode (Chain_Induction) (all affected targets) for 4s", as well as spawning an entity that casts Ion Core Judgement Jump 1. This power has a tag "Target Requires: !target.mode?(kChain_Induction)". I believe the ! in the tag means "not", so in plain english the tag would mean "as long as this target doesn't have the kChain_Induction mode". So if someone else's Ion Judgement tries to hit that entity, it will see the kChain_Induction tag on them and won't be able to target them. I don't think this is a bug, so much as a consequence of how the chain is designed, which is noticeably different from the only two other chains I can think of right now (Jolting Chain in Electric Control, and Trick Shot in Martial Assault).

I have to say, I still have no idea what you are talking about. I have Ionic on a lot of my characters. My currently being played on a duo is an elec'/elec'/Mu Dominator with Ionic. And even when my partner and I use our Ionics almost on top of each other, I have not seen what you are describing. Not saying it doesn't happen, just that I have never seen it happen. On the rare occasions I join a larger team (for an ITF usually), I see Ionic being spammed pretty relentlessly. And still haven't witnessed it when I used my Ionic.

[DrRocket]

8 hours ago, Fade said:

The issue DrRocket is experiencing does happen, specifically with Ion Judgement at all tiers. This isn't an issue with Pyronic Judgement, Cryonic Judgement, or any others (that I know of). I experience the issue fairly often in normal play at Incarnate levels, but obtaining video evidence would require filming an entire play session to have a chance to experience it.

 

I believe the issue is that, in order to prevent the chain from doubling back and hitting an enemy multiple times, the power applies an immunity to Ion Judgement damage after applying its own damage. Looking at Ion Core Judgement on City of Data shows that it applies an effect "Set Mode (Chain_Induction) (all affected targets) for 4s", as well as spawning an entity that casts Ion Core Judgement Jump 1. This power has a tag "Target Requires: !target.mode?(kChain_Induction)". I believe the ! in the tag means "not", so in plain english the tag would mean "as long as this target doesn't have the kChain_Induction mode". So if someone else's Ion Judgement tries to hit that entity, it will see the kChain_Induction tag on them and won't be able to target them. I don't think this is a bug, so much as a consequence of how the chain is designed, which is noticeably different from the only two other chains I can think of right now (Jolting Chain in Electric Control, and Trick Shot in Martial Assault).

Thank You! Thank you! That answers makes sense, and answers the why of the effect I am experiencing. Truly appreciate it.  Rudra has it right, its a bug!

 

Regards

[Ukase]

On 7/21/2025 at 8:35 PM, megaericzero said:

As long as it's an optional feature, doesn't matter to me. I just wanted to point out:

 

Imagine playing an MMO and talking to people you elected to group with. 👀

So, while I don't think the OP's solution to a first world problem isn't my concern...most of us cannot type fast enough to do this - and even over discord, because of the nature of people, you'd end up having multiple people talk at once, even if using push to talk options. 

There's just not enough time to discuss and coordinate unless you slow things down to a crawl. Now, for various badge efforts, or maybe certain hardmode TFs, folks might be willing to slow down, but for things like the labyrinth..that's just silly to expect people to coordinate when they're going to use their nukes. 

Last night, it was abundantly clear I didn't need to use Barrier at all from watching my stats. I don't think I went below 100% resistance in any category, and I was on a blaster, the entire time. So, I just didn't. And yeah, a couple of times another player used theirs at roughly the same time. Big deal, so what. And a lot of times, the same thing happens with Ion judgement. Big deal, so what. It's a good problem to have. I barely use judgements now anyway. But I do know I'm not slotting Ionic judgements anymore because the activation times are too slow. Pyronic is faster, but does have lower accuracy for some reason. So funny to use that on even con mobs and miss. Still, I've been picking it over Ion lately because of the faster animation. 

[Rudra]

7 hours ago, Ukase said:

On 7/21/2025 at 7:35 PM, megaericzero said:

As long as it's an optional feature, doesn't matter to me. I just wanted to point out:

 

Imagine playing an MMO and talking to people you elected to group with. 👀

So, while I don't think the OP's solution to a first world problem isn't my concern...most of us cannot type fast enough to do this - and even over discord, because of the nature of people, you'd end up having multiple people talk at once, even if using push to talk options. 

There's just not enough time to discuss and coordinate unless you slow things down to a crawl.

Or, you know, do like they do for the Anti-Matter iTrial. Establish a rotation for using their Judgements (instead of the Incandescents.) You're 8th in the rotation? Then you don't use your Judgement until 7 other Judgements have been used, and then after you use yours, you wait until after the next 7 have been used. That's what teams do, they coordinate their actions. (Edit: As opposed to mobs, which don't. And lets face it, most teams in this game aren't teams. They're just mobs racing around doing whatever they want and somehow manage to get things done.) So instead of everyone racing to be the one that wipes out the spawn(s) with their Judgement, they rotate. I know, a lot of players won't bother with that or abide by it, but that is where team leadership comes in. Team leader establishes the rules and everyone else follows them or goes to find another team. (Either because they quit or got booted.) If the players don't want to coordinate as a team? Then enjoy the chaos of team mob combat.

 

Edited Wednesday at 09:15 PM by Rudra
Edited again to correct "Your" to "You're".

[tidge]

Solution: Wait 95 seconds before your next cast of judgement.

[BrandX]

If playing at high enough difficulty, this shouldn't be to much of a worry and the only Judgement that may have any real issue, to my knowledge, is Ion, due to how it chains, and another Ion could screw up the chain.