Robert Kogan's Arc (Major Benjamin's writing quality)

[RunUpGetDoneUp]

I think it's time we took a deep dive into the writing of some of the arcs in the Kalisti's Wharf zone. I will provide a few examples below.

 

What's going on here? Did I just step into a twitter/4chan thread all of the sudden? Discuss.

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Edited Thursday at 07:07 PM by RunUpGetDoneUp

[Itsyagirl]

I get what the writer(s) was going for, but it's just super hamfisted. Sure, there probably is a heavy toxic masculinity culture in the 5th Column, as with most fascists, and there's probably a lot of culture war stuff they get fed... but it wouldn't be exactly the same as our own. Where's the conspiracy theories about Rikti controlling the world government, or the demonising of shapeshifters as degenerates, or anti-Praetorian refugee talking points, as random off-the-top examples? Those all capture the same attitudes and ideas without just being "open Twitter, ctrl+c the comment section under an Elon tweet, ctrl+v".

[psylum1]

Yeah the writing here is...something. This feels like a strawman of what they're trying to portray.

[Steampunkette]

My take on this is simple:

 

City of Heroes is Sci-Fi and Fantasy. So tell this story, and those like it, in allegory. Have the Council be made up of people who hate "Mutants" and think Malta has taken over the government. That the Rikti Invasion was a false-flag for the UN to gather a bunch of power and military strength for their Vanguard to enforce a new world order. Have the Council be pissed off about the "Handouts" the Praetorians are receiving while good hard-working Primals are being crushed by corporate interests.

 

Make it obvious, and allegorical, rather than just taking modern talking points and sound bites and sprinkling them about.

 

I promise. I'll hate the Council -just- as much if they're hating on "Mutie Lovers" as I would if they were hating on "(Insert slur here) Lovers".

[psylum1]

I don't even mind a villains being bigoted on real life issues but it felt like they just copy pasted an angry reddit post.

[Steampunkette]

The only reason I'm uncool with how it was presented is:

 

There is no content warning at all and you got bombarded with a lot of abusive text. That could be really upsetting for people with triggers and anxieties. 

 

I recognize this is supposed to be a comedic over the top ridiculous character... but yeesh.

[Chris24601]

I definitely agree. City of Heroes is an alternate Earth where history has been headed a different direction for decades if not centuries.

 

The Earth was invaded by what the general public still generally believes to be ALIENS in the very early 00s that ravaged huge chunks of at least the city if not the planet.

 

The Shadow Shard exists because Rularuu almost ate the whole dimension (and the spell that created it yoinked s copy of an entire chunk of the city and its people with it.

 

It got invaded by another Dimension recently.

 

Galaxy City is just the latest nuking from space to hit.

 

Supervillains routinely override broadcast television (which along with cathode ray tube sets and monitors are still things in Paragon City) with their manifestos.

 

The Sky Raiders are a breakaway US military organization that was already equipped with jet packs, teleporter rigs, and shield generators.

 

Malta is a shadow government organization armed with brainwashed cyborg war machines, and also has jet packs, sapper guns, teleporters, and an army of magic-empowered female assassins. And that’s BEFORE they snagged Battle Maiden’s nanotech to upgrade themselves.

 

Heck, you have gangs empowered by demons and death gods, puppets animated city wide by the telekinetic power of a psychic’s brain in a jar, and frankenstein-ish animated cadavers running around as STARTER villains.
 

Real world 2020s pop culture is just so… banal in comparison to the utter insanity that is Paragon City.

[Forager]

Lol The 5th Column are actual Nazis. They're murderous, genocidal fascists that started WW2... this guy hates college and eats meat.

 

I guess this is supposed to be a comedic take? Praetorian-on-Praetorian crime is a really funny line though.

 

[Vic Raiden]

I get what they were going for here, but it still feels kind of too strawman-y to be any good.

[VeiledOwl]

I also found Major Benjamin to be a character that jarred me out of suspension of disbelief when I played this arc. Not just because of the over-the-top, modern real world extremist propaganda, either - I fully believe there are people with such beliefs in the organization (though there would naturally be differences in presentation due to CoH being alternate history). What really threw me off, though, is that the man's meant to be a Raserei Ubermenschen. From the description of minions with this rank:

 

"Every member of the 5th Column aspires to become one of the Raserei Ubermenschen, but few of them achieve this lofty goal. They are the spiritual and philosophical leaders of the 5th Column - totally devoted to its beliefs and goals. Like any good soldier, they lead by example. Their intense training and physical enhancements make them the perfect soldiers and perfect models of behavior. In battle, they serve as an inspiration to all who fight at their side."

 

Speaking to Major Benjamin (who's an Oberst) I find myself unable to believe this man achieved the highest rank of possible, let alone became part of 'the inner circle that surrounds the 5th Column's leadership. They are charged with the grand stratagems that further the ultimate goal of the 5th Column'. If he were a lower rank/newly inducted into the 5th Column, I could buy his rhetoric easier as him being unrefined at spouting propaganda yet so he's throwing anything he can at the wall to see what sticks. But he's supposed to be good at it at this point, and he's not.

 

I think the main issue for me is that he just doesn't speak like a 5th Column officer; he talks like an alt-right influencer, not a professional soldier. I had similar issues with the Council troops in Adelard Ziegler's arc - their speech patterns are also off, though decidedly less overtly. At first I thought it was due to the operation in the first mission being 'small-time', so they weren't assigning their best troops. Definitely realized that wasn't the case by the time I finished the arc, though.

 

I do tend to over-fixate on minor details, however, and found the rest of Kogan's arc interesting.

[Chris24601]

The biggest issue I have with the writing is that “present-day politics” and speech patterns ages like milk sitting on a summer porch.

 

 It’s not going to be timeless, it’s going to feel painfully dated in just a few years.

 

In terms of fictional writing, particularly in a world with alternate history, sticking to more settled historical and setting-specific references is a good way to keep the world feeling timeless.

[Snarky]

I have always (quite strangely) been very of the middle road ideologically.  Maybe it was growing up watching Twilight Zone and reading tons of Sci Fi.  
 

I am okay with very conservative ideals.  Up until they stand on my toes.  
 

I am okay with very liberal ideals.  Up until they become radically extreme and hyper reflexive.  
 

Most of all I do not give a shit.  Neither side will change, except to become ever more insular and insufferable.  Neither will either side offer up anything that will work for society overall.  In my opinion.  
 

The writers of the US Constitution knew a lot about how to create a safe space for a social experiment.  And it did not involve catering to extremism.  But it can and will falter if not cared for or cared about.  
 

As far as this contact goes….  “lazy writing in CoH, what have things come to!” *swoons and falls on sofa….

 

As far as this thread goes….   I do hope it goes.  

[Koopak]

Biggest worry i have with this is how hard it is to focus the discussion on the actual issue which is the quality and style of writing, not the political topics raised. Real easy to get lost in the debate, but thats not the problem the problem is this doesn't feel like City of Heroes, not that its to left or right, or upside down 6th dimensional.

[Snarky]

2 hours ago, Koopak said:

Biggest worry i have with this is how hard it is to focus the discussion on the actual issue which is the quality and style of writing, not the political topics raised. Real easy to get lost in the debate, but thats not the problem the problem is this doesn't feel like City of Heroes, not that its to left or right, or upside down 6th dimensional.

to be clear, in case it was overlooked because i got long winded. 

 

CoH writing has ALWAYS sucked.  with small exception like The Radio contact or The Slot Machine (though Slots missions are pretty repetitive...what a shock)

[Crimsanotic]

City of heroes takes place in a sort of timeless early 2000s time period. The problem with HC's writing (literally all of it) is that it's both way too modern and for some reason always topical. Never once was there a story arc in CoH that referenced current events. Yet every single new story arc HC releases has some hamfisted garbage about whatever current event is going on. Are the words "liberal" and "censorship" ever even used in all of CoH outside of this?

 

At best HC's writing feels like an episode of CSI. At worst it's...this. This is awful. Like, actually dismal. I don't even know what the purpose of it is. It's just topical buzzwords just for the sake of it? As others have said, it doesn't feel like CoH. It's really, really easy to tell what HC wrote and what was actually there. This isn't about the "quality" of the writing, it's about what's being written. Consistently, whoever writes for HC churns out trash because they can't but help themselves to reference some modern current event instead of, I don't know, the actual game they're writing for.

[Ukase]

The quality of the writing...really? 

Let them who volunteer to do the writing make the first red marks on the previous content. 

I don't pretend to have a doctorate in English or Journalism. But I did make an A in Creative Writing when I was in college. 

Now, let's be clear about something. 

There is nothing in the content in this entire game that is great writing. Becky, in the Aeon SF is the closest we've come to great writing. But that's just my subjective opinion, fairly worthless. If you folks are expecting to follow a plot line the way you might have followed the Secret Wars parts 1 and 2 like I did...well, you're asking a lot. Too much. 

If you can do better - Do so. Sign up, volunteer, and do better. I'm sure they'd love to have you. 

As for the political stuff, that's not the least bit abusive to me. That's what I would expect a fascist to sound like. 

[Crimsanotic]

2 minutes ago, Ukase said:

If you can do better - Do so. Sign up, volunteer, and do better. I'm sure they'd love to have you. 

You say that as if HC consistently accepts volunteers.

 

Spoilers: they don't.

[TerroirNoir3]

29 minutes ago, Crimsanotic said:

Yet every single new story arc HC releases has some hamfisted garbage about whatever current event is going on.

Not all of them.

Edited 12 hours ago by TerroirNoir3

[Snarky]

I have not tried to volunteer for Homecoming.  Pretty sure they do not need me.

 

However, I am sure that Homecoming would accept the services of a HIGH QUALITY Editor, Coder, or other technical service worker.  And, meeting the criteria of quality and need, I am sure they would very consistently accept such volunteering.

 

I believe you are just noticing a pattern of discernment and lack of needed skill sets.

 

 

[JKCarrier]

The problem is not that the writing has gotten too political. The problem is that certain political factions have become so blatantly, absurdly, cartoonishly evil that they fit perfectly into an over-the-top comic book story.