Generic power sets…

[Snarky]

I do not know if this is possible.  It is almost surely a non starter. But, …

 

Take a power set.  Fire Blast, Energy Blast, Cold Domination, whatever.  Although I do not think this will work much with armor sets.  Then generic it.  Allow the player to pick the type of damage. Don’t like Fire?  How about Dark?  Don’t like Cold? How about Dark? Or, of course, energy, toxic, etc. 

 

The entire set, already balanced, remains unchanged.  But the damage type, (including secondary effects if of same original damage type as set) switch to the new damage type. Add in  power customization (99% of which is already done) and you have a generic version of the set.  
 

I believe this would encourage even more alting and enjoyment 

 

This is a one time choice made at rollup and can never be changed 

Edited Thursday at 05:03 PM by Snarky

[LightMaster]

I can imagine it as “Elemental Blast / Melee / Affinity / Control / Manipulation / Assault” with Swap Ammo type of power as a free package, at cost of being a master of none Set that can at least able to swap the type of damage on the fly, which means Fire, Cold, Energy, Negative, Psionic and Toxic (or even add Smash via Wind and Lethal via Metal) to circumvent an enemy group heavily resilient to a specific type of damage. In case of Affinity and Control, it also has a different additional effect like slight boost on Resist/Defense (or -Res for Control) versus that type of damage depending on one of the six / eight Elements chosen.

 

I said Master of None because I don’t want that having different secondary effects on the fly and make other sets feeling obsolete. Mechanically, it can serve as a “beginner friendly” power set with no severe weaknesses and easy to understand, that nonetheless does have a level of complexity to it that allows veterans to take advantage of the Damage Swap system to defeat enemies that, say, a Fire Melee might struggle, at cost of being average across the board without the use of Enhancements.

 

As a bonus, all powers can use different elemental FX, to really sell on specializing more than two elements lore-wise and can also help for a thematic “master of elements or Kirby/Mega Man-esque” concept, with Storm Blast being the closest with dealing Cold, Energy and Wind-based Smash damage in one package without involving weaponry.

[biostem]

52 minutes ago, Snarky said:

The entire set, already balanced, remains unchanged.

What about special cases, like electrical blast, where you need to take tesla cage to enable the special secondary effect, or being able to optimize for shorter animation or recharge times?  Things like water or seismic blast rely on special secondary effects that you'd either have to strip out , (making them less effective), and so on?  I think we'd more likely see some sort of generic elementalist set, kind of like how storm blast combined different damage types and effects...

[Snarky]

10 minutes ago, biostem said:

What about special cases, like electrical blast, where you need to take tesla cage to enable the special secondary effect, or being able to optimize for shorter animation or recharge times?  Things like water or seismic blast rely on special secondary effects that you'd either have to strip out , (making them less effective), and so on?  I think we'd more likely see some sort of generic elementalist set, kind of like how storm blast combined different damage types and effects...

obviously, as stated with the armor sets, it could not be done everywhere.  but some sets are "pure" and a damage change out could open up whole new character concepts

 

[biostem]

1 minute ago, Snarky said:

but some sets are "pure" and a damage change out could open up whole new character concepts

No argument about it opening up some concepts, but would choosing negative energy/dark still include a tohit debuff, or sonic a -res effect, for instance?  You may need to adjust the tiers of certain powers as well, so you couldn't take all AoEs, or take multiple fast animating hold attacks, (ice blast has 2, but the 2nd has a much longer animation, while, if going by the strict arrangement the sets currently have, one could take freeze ray and abyssal gaze to circumvent this).  

[Snarky]

4 minutes ago, biostem said:

No argument about it opening up some concepts, but would choosing negative energy/dark still include a tohit debuff, or sonic a -res effect, for instance?  You may need to adjust the tiers of certain powers as well, so you couldn't take all AoEs, or take multiple fast animating hold attacks, (ice blast has 2, but the 2nd has a much longer animation, while, if going by the strict arrangement the sets currently have, one could take freeze ray and abyssal gaze to circumvent this).  

the sets, and their secondary effects would remain unchanged.  Otherwise you are rewriting and rebalancing.  Only Damage type will be changed, and as stated, this will limit the number of sets this would work optimally on

 

except, as stated, if the secondary effect includes the sets original damage type, which will be switched for the chosen type.

Edited Thursday at 06:20 PM by Snarky

[biostem]

2 minutes ago, Snarky said:

the sets, and their secondary effects would remain unchanged.  Otherwise you are rewriting and rebalancing.  Only Damage type will be changed, and as stated, this will limit the number of sets this would work optimally on

 

except, as stated, if the secondary effect includes the sets original damage type, which will be switched for the chosen type.

So, just to be clear, this proposed set would contain NO secondary effects, and the only differences would be damage type and possibly the appearance of each individual power?  So it wouldn't, for instance, be dark blast/flares/ice bolt for the T1, but a wholly new power where you got to select the damage type?

[Snarky]

6 minutes ago, biostem said:

So, just to be clear, this proposed set would contain NO secondary effects, and the only differences would be damage type and possibly the appearance of each individual power?  So it wouldn't, for instance, be dark blast/flares/ice bolt for the T1, but a wholly new power where you got to select the damage type?

*facepalm   NO

 

So, take Energy Blast.  Does Energy Damage, Knockback secondary effect.  Change to Dark Damage.  Still does Knockback

 

So, Take Ice Blast.  Does Ice  Damage, a lot of slows, holds, -spd, -rech.  Change to Dark damage, and KEEPS all it's secondary effects.  unchanged.

Edited Thursday at 06:31 PM by Snarky

[Ultimo]

2 hours ago, Snarky said:

I do not know if this is possible.  It is almost surely a non starter. But, …

 

Take a power set.  Fire Blast, Energy Blast, Cold Domination, whatever.  Although I do not think this will work much with armor sets.  Then generic it.  Allow the player to pick the type of damage. Don’t like Fire?  How about Dark?  Don’t like Cold? How about Dark? Or, of course, energy, toxic, etc. 

 

The entire set, already balanced, remains unchanged.  But the damage type, (including secondary effects if of same original damage type as set) switch to the new damage type. Add in  power customization (99% of which is already done) and you have a generic version of the set.  
 

I believe this would encourage even more alting and enjoyment 

 

This is a one time choice made at rollup and can never be changed 

I suggested the same thing once, but was shouted down as usual.  My thinking was that the game should function kind of like Champions pen and paper, where each power set was the same at base, but the specifics of the effects would be different.  Apart from secondary effects (eg. burning, slowing, knocking, etc.), the powers would only LOOK different.  I thought it would be easier to keep everything balanced.

 

It would also allow characters to have a variety of effects within a single power set.  For example, a blast set might choose fire for the first power, then ice for another, then dark for another...  The actual damage output would be the same whatever effect was chosen, so the only difference would be that secondary effect.

 

I thought it wasn't a bad idea, and I still think it's not a bad idea... but as you said, it's probably a non-starter.

[Troo]

41 minutes ago, Ultimo said:

where each power set was the same at base, but the specifics of the effects would be different.  Apart from secondary effects (eg. burning, slowing, knocking, etc.), the powers would only LOOK different.  I thought it would be easier to keep everything balanced.

 

Maybe it's a good idea, maybe not. But that would be a different game likely requiring different backend and engine. (not shouting you down)

[mechahamham]

I love the general idea, but balance issues will almost certainly creep in.

 

You'd open cans of worms like people picking the best melee for farming, and discovering that effect x mows down enemies with armor y faster than any other combination available. Fire Farming + Winter Os demonstrate just how extreme this scenario could be.

 

I can see lots of people doing things like picking an Energy Blast clone and dropping its knockback in favor of another effect. (And I would be sad because I love knockback.) I can also see lots of people hopping on whatever 'The Meta' is for a given FOTM.

[Snarky]

10 hours ago, mechahamham said:

I love the general idea, but balance issues will almost certainly creep in.

 

You'd open cans of worms like people picking the best melee for farming, and discovering that effect x mows down enemies with armor y faster than any other combination available. Fire Farming + Winter Os demonstrate just how extreme this scenario could be.

 

I can see lots of people doing things like picking an Energy Blast clone and dropping its knockback in favor of another effect. (And I would be sad because I love knockback.) I can also see lots of people hopping on whatever 'The Meta' is for a given FOTM.

You cannot switch secondary effects under my suggestion.  Just the damage type.  Switching secondary effects would obviously require rebalance.  Switching damage types, in theory, should not.

[Psi-bolt]

2 hours ago, Snarky said:

You cannot switch secondary effects under my suggestion.  Just the damage type.  Switching secondary effects would obviously require rebalance.  Switching damage types, in theory, should not.

 

What happens to powers that have dual types?  Like most of Water Blast?  Could I change that to pure Energy.   I like the idea, but it seems dangerous in parts.

[Snarky]

2 hours ago, Psi-bolt said:

 

What happens to powers that have dual types?  Like most of Water Blast?  Could I change that to pure Energy.   I like the idea, but it seems dangerous in parts.

Water Blast might be an unchangeable set, like armors.  Or, best case, you could change both types!  
 

of course the real obstacles are the old code might not allow any changes.  (Solved by making an alternate power set for each damage type, copy paste) and/or Dev time/interest

Edited Friday at 03:32 PM by Snarky

[megaericzero]

5 minutes ago, Snarky said:

(Solved by making an alternate power set for each damage type, copy paste)

Please do not. Having eight of most every set would make it take 2-5 business days to pick one in the character creator. We might not see a new War Mace character before the heat death of the universe.

 

--

 

No idea about balance but it might be funny to see someone try a gimmick combination like Fire Blast substitute toxic + Fire Manip sub psionic.

"I do toxic damage. And my secondary effect is to do more toxic damage. Enemy group resistant to toxic? Doubt they have psi resist then, so try two psionic damage auras and psychic Burn."

[Ultimo]

Perhaps, instead of Primary and Secondary power sets, this could be implemented as a Power Pool, allowing any character access to a set of thematic powers?

 

1. Punch Attack - could appear as an energy punch, or a fire sword, or ice fists, or what have you.

2. Basic Blast - Essentially the same as Flares, or other similar low tier blast.

3. Basic short range AOE - essentially the same as Energy Torrent, or similar.

4. AOE Punch - radius punch, kind of like Fire Sword Circle, but with the different types.

5. Explosive Blast - medium range, radius explosion, like Fireball or Explosive Blast.

 

You would then pick the particular effect type in the power customization options... fire, ice, energy, darkness, etc.

[srmalloy]

16 hours ago, Snarky said:

You cannot switch secondary effects under my suggestion.  Just the damage type.  Switching secondary effects would obviously require rebalance.  Switching damage types, in theory, should not.

And the visuals for the secondary effects? Cold attacks switched to fire that leave little 'frosty' halos around your targets? Water blasts with the radiation afterglow indicating the debuff? Psi blasts leaving their original 'dark' aftereffects? 

[MTeague]

Cautiously optimistic on the idea. I don't always like the fluffy-nether looking parts of Dark Blast, so sometimes I use a different blast set recolored pitch black / black with just a hint of really dark blue.  But then I'm no longer doing Negative damage. This would take care of that angle of things.  Or a "Nuclear Fire" that's Fire Blast recolored green, but not really radiation energy, if I just don't care for eye beams or the trash that is neutrino bolt on that character. Again, this would allow selection of what was truly desired all along. 

 

I do think you'd rapidly see Flavor-of-the-Months where people lean hard into a percieved advantageous damage type, and then wail and moan that they want to re-select that damage type the next time enemy resistances are rebalanced. But the devs are not incapable of saying "No. Too Bad For You.", so that's an acceptable risk in my book. But I do think, the devs will never made this change, without also doing a top-to-bottom review of existing enemy resistances, and adjusting things here and there.

Edited Saturday at 03:29 AM by MTeague

[Snarky]

7 hours ago, srmalloy said:

And the visuals for the secondary effects? Cold attacks switched to fire that leave little 'frosty' halos around your targets? Water blasts with the radiation afterglow indicating the debuff? Psi blasts leaving their original 'dark' aftereffects? 

hopefully power customization will solve the majority of these issues.  or adding more customization is an option, less attractive due to time investment.  

[Ukase]

This is interesting. 

I make an ice or fire blaster not so much because they're high dps, but because their activation/animation times on most of the powers "seem" faster than the others. 
I swear, Dark's effects make it look slower. That's probably all in my head. But if I could take ice blast for my powerset, but do the dark damage...maybe. 

But alternatively, I could take mace on my brute, and do dark damage...that might be interesting. 

I think what you might have in mind would be a blaster character is made. They choose a dark blaster. But instead of it dealing negative energy, or whatever dark dishes out, it would dish out fire damage. Or ice damage, or whatever damage the player picked. Everything else is the same. 

But, if everything else is the same, only the damage type - maybe a better option is to just visit the tailor and have the option to turn whatever effect your character has and make it look like the one you want. 

So, if you wanted your dark corruptor to dish out fire damage, you would visit the tailor on your fire corruptor and make the attack look like a dark blast attack. And nothing else changes. 

 

Only the color/special effects of the power you're using. 

 

[srmalloy]

1 hour ago, Ukase said:

So, if you wanted your dark corruptor to dish out fire damage, you would visit the tailor on your fire corruptor and make the attack look like a dark blast attack. And nothing else changes. 

 

Only the color/special effects of the power you're using. 

This is what I did with Toksichniy Podlesok, a Dark/Plant blaster; I recolored all of her Dark powers to variations on black and green to suggest that she's firing various plant-based toxins at her targets, with the -ToHit being the effect of the toxins on the target over and above the direct damage.