Super Speed

[Rudra]

1 hour ago, Ultimo said:

Yes, attacks root the character.  Not all attacks root the character for SEVERAL SECONDS.

3.07 seconds is not "several seconds". And if you think Flurry needs work, then propose changes to it. That would be better than taking away a power other players are using just because you personally don't like it. (Edit: Especially since you are proposing to replace it with the equivalent of a T9 power that players could grab at 4th level with no prerequisites.)

 

Edited Tuesday at 12:33 AM by Rudra

[Ultimo]

More than one second is by definition several seconds... but I'm not arguing semantics with you.  The fact remains that it roots the character for longer than most other attacks, which slows the character down... which is the opposite of what SPEED is supposedly about.

 

Also, I understand that this would change powers people are still using, but it's not like they haven't done that before when it's for a general benefit.  For example, they recently changed Regeneration.  I'm sure there were those who liked it as it was, but they did it anyway because it was for the general good.

 

I'm not suggesting replacing it with a tier 9 power.  I'm suggesting replacing it with an appropriately balanced power that is LIKE the tier 9 power.  I didn't think I needed to explain this.

[macskull]

23 hours ago, tidge said:

Can we try 20 questions? Was it a power usable by an Invulnerable/Energy Melee Tanker?

We can! It was not.

[Wavicle]

Just now, macskull said:

We can! It was not.

Is it bigger than a breadbox?

[macskull]

2 hours ago, Wavicle said:

Is it bigger than a breadbox?

Yes.

[espectro]

4 hours ago, macskull said:

Yes.

Was it that spinning power people were using to cancel animations?

[Wavicle]

4 hours ago, macskull said:

Yes.

animal vegetable or mineral

[JayboH]

On 9/25/2025 at 9:28 PM, Captain Fabulous said:

Speed suppression needs to go. Period. It was a bad idea back in i4 and it's still a bad idea today. Just get rid of it already.

If I am remembering correctly, the problem they were trying to address was that a player could defeat enemies and be out of range when they are finally aggroed.

[Captain Fabulous]

On 10/1/2025 at 2:04 AM, JayboH said:

If I am remembering correctly, the problem they were trying to address was that a player could defeat enemies and be out of range when they are finally aggroed.

That was the reason given, but it's BS because it's never actually worked that way. Critters instantly target you and queue up attacks the millisecond they are aggroed, and in most cases long before your attack even hits them. You can't outrun it. If you somehow were able to get off a shot and be out of range before they could retaliate you'd get hit the second you were back in range.

Speed suppression exists solely because Jack didn't like that people could run away from battles. He wanted people to die because he felt that dying made the game better.

[srmalloy]

2 hours ago, Captain Fabulous said:

Speed suppression exists solely because Jack didn't like that people could run away from battles. He wanted people to die because he felt that dying made the game better.

I don't know if it would be archived anywhere, but I remember seeing a statement from him that 'fun' was throwing yourself at the end boss again and again, being defeated over and over until you found the one trick that let you defeat them. And wanted it to be that way in CoH, with each player learning how to defeat the various big bosses as they leveled. Which showed that he didn't really understand how the Internet worked, because as soon as someone found a way to defeat a big boss, that process would be splashed all over the Net for other players to find, shortcutting his desire that each player learn for themselves. 

[Wavicle]

Just now, srmalloy said:

I don't know if it would be archived anywhere, but I remember seeing a statement from him that 'fun' was throwing yourself at the end boss again and again, being defeated over and over until you found the one trick that let you defeat them. And wanted it to be that way in CoH, with each player learning how to defeat the various big bosses as they leveled. Which showed that he didn't really understand how the Internet worked, because as soon as someone found a way to defeat a big boss, that process would be splashed all over the Net for other players to find, shortcutting his desire that each player learn for themselves. 

That may be true, but the basic concept is still sound. Dark souls bosses are like that. Final Fantasy XIV bosses are like that. A lot of games are like that, and they are often fun. Jack was an absolute dog shit communicator, but his ideas were actually not that bad.

[srmalloy]

1 hour ago, Wavicle said:

Jack was an absolute dog shit communicator, but his ideas were actually not that bad.

It wasn't so much that he wanted boss fights in CoH to be repetitive team wipes as the players figured out what worked and what didn't, but that he clung to this premise as part of his vision for the One True Way™ to play CoH without recognizing that, in a game where the players are expected to cooperate to complete content, the ways to win the 'Big boss' fights would get shared aggressively, making the whole premise worthless. 

[macskull]

On 9/30/2025 at 10:25 PM, espectro said:

Was it that spinning power people were using to cancel animations?

No.

On 9/30/2025 at 10:57 PM, Wavicle said:

animal vegetable or mineral

No.

[Captain Fabulous]

3 hours ago, Wavicle said:

Jack was an absolute dog shit communicator, but his ideas were actually not that bad.

Sorry, but I will have to disagree with you on this: Jack was a bald-faced liar and most of his ideas really were that bad. They came not from him wanting to make a great game, but from him mandating His game be played His way (1 hero = 3 minions). And if players weren't adhering to His Vision™ he was gonna change the game and force it upon you. This is why we got speed suppression, the global defense nerf, ED, purple patch, target caps, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.

This is also why Champions will never be more than a footnote in superhero MMO history. He nerfed TF outta it on DAY 1. Literally on day 1 of release. No lie, I was there. Took it from what was a pretty fun game to play to a total slog from which is never recovered.

[JayboH]

6 hours ago, Captain Fabulous said:

Speed suppression exists solely because Jack didn't like that people could run away from battles. He wanted people to die because he felt that dying made the game better.

On this point, he was right.  If there is no consequences, people lose interest really fast.

 

EDIT:  also right about ED and so on.

 

Didn't agree with everything, but imagine thinking ED was wrong in this day and age...  

Edited Friday at 02:05 AM by JayboH

[macskull]

1 hour ago, JayboH said:

Didn't agree with everything, but imagine thinking ED was wrong in this day and age...  

We have the benefit of hindsight, though. Between inventions and incarnates ED is sort of just a footnote at this point, but for a period of nearly two years it was a pretty substantial nerf which caused a lot of players to simply up and leave.

[Wavicle]

12 minutes ago, macskull said:

We have the benefit of hindsight, though. Between inventions and incarnates ED is sort of just a footnote at this point, but for a period of nearly two years it was a pretty substantial nerf which caused a lot of players to simply up and leave.

Shortsighted quitters.

[JayboH]

7 hours ago, macskull said:

We have the benefit of hindsight, though. Between inventions and incarnates ED is sort of just a footnote at this point, but for a period of nearly two years it was a pretty substantial nerf which caused a lot of players to simply up and leave.

I was there.  I remember how upset people were.

 

Thankfully the real fans came to their senses.  I remember how absolutely ridiculous it used to be.  We had a Claws/Regen player just stand overnight on 'monster island' as we called it, North of Peregrine, and never die (which naturally was before autokick was implemented.)  

 

The absurdity of Invul tankers aggroing an entire map of Warwolves...

 

Some pretty thick rose-tinted glasses are needed for the nostalgic who wish it would go back that way - and I suppose those that want it bad enough could make their own server at this point.

Edited Friday at 10:13 AM by JayboH

[tidge]

I want to publicly agree with @JayboH comments and attitude: JE wasn't wrong about everything... I see it more as him having peculiar blindspots... some related to how 'core features' related to player engagement, some about how certain powers 'should work'.  (The lack of) Enhancement Diversification really only became an obvious balance problem (from my PoV) once the player level range was increased to 50, because of all the extra slots.

 

IMO the dumbest 'core mechanic' that appears to have been a reason why (something like) ED wasn't initially considered for the game was the terrible lack of Recovery (without an inherent Stamina)... it makes sense (to me) that there is a necessary budget (Endurance) to spend engaging with the game... but waiting around for the blue bar to refill was simply no fun. Driving most players to take 3 power picks just to get Stamina was also highly limiting in terms of diversifying character builds.

[battlewraith]

4 hours ago, JayboH said:

The absurdity of Invul tankers aggroing an entire map of Warwolves...

 

 

Pfft…

The absurdity of an invuln scrapper herding the whole map.

Which was a blast. Fun times. Some of the best times involved things being out of wack. 

[Ghost]

1 hour ago, battlewraith said:

 

Pfft…

The absurdity of an invuln scrapper herding the whole map.

Which was a blast. Fun times. Some of the best times involved things being out of wack. 

On occasion yes.

as the norm, no.

[macskull]

14 hours ago, Wavicle said:

Shortsighted quitters.

Again, benefit of hindsight.

[Wavicle]

14 minutes ago, macskull said:

Again, benefit of hindsight.

Not really. I was there at the time, I didn’t quit. Because I could see at the time, that ED was a good idea.

[Bionic_Flea]

Hindsight

Shortsight

 

18 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

I could see at the time, that ED was a good idea.

 

FORESIGHT!

 

[tidge]

Pumicite!