Conversion of salvage to Empyrian merits

[MsSmart]

At this time, you can convert emps into salvage and assemble your IOs, the rate in Emps is as follows:

 

White =    1

Yellow =   3

Orange = 8

Purple =   30

 

If you could convert salvage to emps back, perhaps allow for a nominal 20% exchange penalty

 

Reversed White = 16 Threads (had to make change)

Reversed Yellow = 2 Emps and 8 Threads

Reversed Orange = 6 Emps and 8 Threads

Reversed Purple = 24 Emps

 

I know you can convert salvage into threads and buy inspirations and then sell for inf, my intent is not to have more inf from salvage or emps in fact. I just want to have a pool of emps for new alts so they can fully T4 their incarnate abilities with several variations of choices (Destiny - Ageless/Barrier/Clarion, etc) or have the means to assemble a T4 prior to a stat TF to best provide group support for example.

 

This is a Quality of Life suggestion to reduce not needed tedium

 

[Rudra]

On the grounds that I firmly believe every character should achieve his/her/their/its own Incarnate abilities and not simply get to start as a fully T4'ed Incarnate as soon as they reach level 50, I oppose this suggestion. (Edit: You have to build up the ixp to unlock the slots anyway, so may as well work on gathering materials to craft the powers at the same time.)

 

Edited yesterday at 05:17 AM by Rudra

[MsSmart]

8 hours ago, Rudra said:

On the grounds that I firmly believe every character should achieve his/her/their/its own Incarnate abilities and not simply get to start as a fully T4'ed Incarnate as soon as they reach level 50, I oppose this suggestion. (Edit: You have to build up the ixp to unlock the slots anyway, so may as well work on gathering materials to craft the powers at the same time.)

 

On the grounds that the developers let  you transfer emps among alts in your account, your belief is hardly universal, but very much yours of which you have the right (as usual) to disagree with any QoL

[Hedgefund]

You can already unlock all the incarnate slots except Hybrid by purchasing iXP with threads + inf (and not a lot of inf either).  Then opening Hybrid takes one session on an asteroid in AE so the "firmly believe you should bootstrap your incarnates" crowd has already lost that fight.  

 

I like the OP's suggestion.  It does little to aid me in insta T4ing, if I were to choose to do so, but it would be convenient to be able to consolidate these materials instead of them sitting scattershot across my various alts.

[tidge]

This suggestion has all the feels of "have some incarnates on one character; want incarnates on another character, now" thread. 

 

11 hours ago, MsSmart said:

I know you can convert salvage into threads and buy inspirations and then sell for inf, my intent is not to have more inf from salvage or emps in fact. I just want to have a pool of emps for new alts so they can fully T4 their incarnate abilities with several variations of choices (Destiny - Ageless/Barrier/Clarion, etc) or have the means to assemble a T4 prior to a stat TF to best provide group support for example.

 

 

I can't really get behind making it easier to get Incarnates:

• It's really not that hard, in game now... except that there is some content that is impractical to run for Incarnate effort
• This sort of suggestion would IMO unbalance things such that there would be specific content that was better at accumulating Incarnates
• Incarnate characters are explicitly supposed to be "taking the slow path" to Incarnate power

YMMV on just how necessary it is to ihave T4s (instead of T3s)... or to even have T3s... instantly or otherwise... but for me, I get there eventually... and often by the time I join Incarnate content and find I am missing level shifts, I craft up the ones I need from the Incarnate salvage tab.

[lemming]

Honestly, I would use this only on chars I'm retiring to get to the 50 emp -> transcendant merit conversion.   I've transferred a few to newish chars to build them up quickly, but usually I forget to do so and wind up not needing it.  So, my main has a large number of transcendents sitting there.

 

However, just because I don't see this as needed, I don't think it would unbalance anything.  (If we still had Emp->Reward, then it could)

[Snarky]

10 hours ago, Rudra said:

On the grounds that I firmly believe every character should achieve his/her/their/its own Incarnate abilities and not simply get to start as a fully T4'ed Incarnate as soon as they reach level 50, I oppose this suggestion. (Edit: You have to build up the ixp to unlock the slots anyway, so may as well work on gathering materials to craft the powers at the same time.)

 

Here you are already lost.  I have about 25 transcendent merits on my acct and email as many as needed to unlock what i want.  This is generally 2-3 as the slots do not unlock fast enough to beat the avalanche of threads and incarnate salvage that rolls in.  Then, as i finish the project, … i convert leftover emps back to transcendent or just email the emps if less than 50 to keep the momentum going

[arcane]

This would just make farming empyreans a little too easy I think… thinking of all of my various spreadsheet needs and thinking of all of the toons that have scored T3/T4 drops after finishing their own incarnates and reading your very generous exchange rates where a lucky drop can be worth more empyreans than 3 veteran levels… sounds a little too close to winning the lottery IMHO. Sorry Sue 😞
 

EDIT: In general I am not opposed to some new way to deal with old threads and incarnate components, but the jump from selling immortal recoveries to the particular proposed exchange rates above is way too great. I have given you a thumb left so as not to dishearten you with a thumb down.

Edited 18 hours ago by arcane

[ShardWarrior]

11 hours ago, Rudra said:

On the grounds that I firmly believe every character should achieve his/her/their/its own Incarnate abilities and not simply get to start as a fully T4'ed Incarnate as soon as they reach level 50, I oppose this suggestion. (Edit: You have to build up the ixp to unlock the slots anyway, so may as well work on gathering materials to craft the powers at the same time.)

 

 

The character is controlled by the player who may have already unlocked and crafted T4 incarnates on dozens, if not hundreds, of characters.  At some point, that does get old and is more tedium for tedium's sake.  

[tidge]

50 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

 

The character is controlled by the player who may have already unlocked and crafted T4 incarnates on dozens, if not hundreds, of characters.  At some point, that does get old and is more tedium for tedium's sake.  

 

So... it's the T4 unlocks that are causing the tedium?

[ShardWarrior]

15 minutes ago, tidge said:

So... it's the T4 unlocks that are causing the tedium?

 

They can be part of it, sure.  I never suggested they were the one and only tedious activity for alts if that is what you are attempting to infer.

[tidge]

1 minute ago, ShardWarrior said:

 

They can be part of it, sure.  I never suggested they were the one and only tedious activity for alts if that is what you are attempting to infer.

 

There is a wide variety of content that I've seen described as "tedious", and such an accusation always lands wrong with me. This is a game after all, and usually the thing accused of being tedious is both:

• Not required to play the game
• In the way of someone having the most awesome level 50+++/Incarnate character ever, because that is the only way they want to play the game.

The tedious accusation might peeve me less if the game didn't already make it pretty simple to achieve the second bullet point, even if it isn't "on demand".

[ShardWarrior]

9 minutes ago, tidge said:

In the way of someone having the most awesome level 50+++/Incarnate character ever, because that is the only way they want to play the game.

 

You are certainly welcome to your opinion.  If this is what someone would like to have for use running increased difficulty content, more power to them.  I personally do not see an issue here.  Temporal Warriors were added to make creating PvP specific characters easier.  As several others have mentioned in this thread, EMP merits can be converted into Transcendent Merits and shared among alts.  Those things are specifically there to make things easier.  

[Rudra]

5 hours ago, MsSmart said:

On the grounds that the developers let  you transfer emps among alts in your account, your belief is hardly universal, but very much yours of which you have the right (as usual) to disagree with any QoL

Then you already have a process by which to do what you want. Congrats. Just transfer your new god the emps from another character and call it good.

[Rudra]

2 hours ago, Snarky said:

Here you are already lost.  I have about 25 transcendent merits on my acct and email as many as needed to unlock what i want.  This is generally 2-3 as the slots do not unlock fast enough to beat the avalanche of threads and incarnate salvage that rolls in.  Then, as i finish the project, … i convert leftover emps back to transcendent or just email the emps if less than 50 to keep the momentum going

Then why is there a need to implement a new method of gaining emp's quickly when you can already do this? (Edit: Regardless of whether an argument can be won or lost, sometimes a statement still needs to be made. I can live with the loss. I can't live with being quiet about even more effort to take away any effort in the game.)

 

Edited 16 hours ago by Rudra

[Rudra]

1 hour ago, ShardWarrior said:

 

The character is controlled by the player who may have already unlocked and crafted T4 incarnates on dozens, if not hundreds, of characters.  At some point, that does get old and is more tedium for tedium's sake.  

Each character is its own entity that undergoes development into a god. And as was pointed out already, there is already a means for fast godhood in the game. Why add yet another method of doing so?

[ShardWarrior]

8 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Each character is its own entity that undergoes development into a god.

 

As determined by the player controlling the character, yes.

 

8 minutes ago, Rudra said:

And as was pointed out already, there is already a means for fast godhood in the game. Why add yet another method of doing so?

 

You seem confused.  I understand that and I agree, there is not really a need for another method.  I have not suggested otherwise. 

[Rudra]

13 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

23 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Each character is its own entity that undergoes development into a god.

 

As determined by the player controlling the character, yes.

By that argument, any player that has a level 50 (+0-3) should be able to buy their new characters up to the same point so they can "reduce not needed tedium". I will always oppose attempts to shorthand the game to max power in any form.

 

13 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

23 minutes ago, Rudra said:

And as was pointed out already, there is already a means for fast godhood in the game. Why add yet another method of doing so?

 

You seem confused.  I understand that and I agree, there is not really a need for another method.  I have not suggested otherwise. 

Fair enough. Apparently I am confused as to your stance.

 

Edited 15 hours ago by Rudra
Edited to correct "anyone" to "any".

[ShardWarrior]

2 hours ago, Rudra said:

Apparently I am confused as to your stance.

 

Clearly.

[ShardWarrior]

3 hours ago, Rudra said:

By that argument, any player that has a level 50 (+0-3) should be able to buy their new characters up to the same point so they can "reduce not needed tedium". I will always oppose attempts to shorthand the game to max power in any form.

 

Systems such as converting EMP merits to Transcendent Merits to be shared among characters on an account were put into place specifically to help reduce some level of tedium.  The aforementioned Temporal Warriors were put into place to reduce some level of tedium.  Perhaps I am misunderstanding here, but I do not see anyone suggesting that players should get instant level 50s here.  

[golstat2003]

4 hours ago, Rudra said:

Each character is its own entity that undergoes development into a god. And as was pointed out already, there is already a means for fast godhood in the game. Why add yet another method of doing so?

I’m not sure the devs 100 percent agree with this with the number of things that can be transferred between alts on the same account and between players/Accounts. (Some which I think HC actually built).
 

You are welcome to your opinion, (and honestly I don’t think the devs will ever implement anything like this), but I would not be mad if they implemented this suggestion.

 

Thus my thumbs sideways to the OP

Edited 12 hours ago by golstat2003
Grammar and typos

[Rudra]

2 hours ago, ShardWarrior said:

Perhaps I am misunderstanding here, but I do not see anyone suggesting that players should get instant level 50s here.  

The point is that we already have the means of transferring emp's. The emp' breakdown option lets us use up unneeded emps. The OP is a request for a way to craft emp's from salvage. With that, players can use their inf' to buy up salvage, especially the vr ones, and get the equivalent of 6 vet levels 3 Magisteriums; or one and a half Hamidon raids ignoring the emp' reward lockout period. They can also use their Reward Merits and AE merits to get more vr salvage to do the same. That will firstly drive up the costs of vr salvage because now it is a highly convenient means of getting emp's. And secondly, if we can buy our way to incarnate status like that, you know full well the request to buy our way up the levels will follow. It isn't even a slippery slope argument, it is an inevitability.

 

I'm not a dev and I cannot speak for them. Neither would I try to. However, I see nothing good in the OP. Neither do I see it as being "equal to what already exists, except as an alternate approach". We have specific means of acquiring emp's. And the OP massively expands that. I'm not going to pitch a fit if the devs implement this, though I doubt they would. I don't care if I am the only voice of dissent saying any of this. I'll live with my loss if that is the case. I won't stay quiet about this though.

 

Edit again: If the OP is only referring to incarnate salvage? Then I don't oppose the OP any more. However, I will ask why not just use the sidegrade, downgrade, or breakdown options incarnate salvage already has then?

 

Edited 10 hours ago by Rudra
Edited to add quotations to clarify meaning of post. And again to remove extra "to". And again to re-arrange "use" and "just".

[ShardWarrior]

39 minutes ago, Rudra said:

The point is that we already have the means of transferring emp's. The emp' breakdown option lets us use up unneeded emps. The OP is a request for a way to craft emp's from salvage. With that, players can use their inf' to buy up salvage, especially the vr ones, and get the equivalent of 6 vet levels 3 Magisteriums; or one and a half Hamidon raids ignoring the emp' reward lockout period. They can also use their Reward Merits and AE merits to get more vr salvage to do the same. That will firstly drive up the costs of vr salvage because now it is a highly convenient means of getting emp's.

 

This has nothing to do with asking for instant level 50s.  

 

40 minutes ago, Rudra said:

And secondly, if we can buy our way to incarnate status like that, you know full well the request to buy our way up the levels will follow. It isn't even a slippery slope argument, it is an inevitability.

 

People will ask for this regardless.  Instant level 50s via Temporal Warriors were already implemented for PvP players.  Surely that is more of a "slippery slope" than what the OP is suggesting.

 

I agree there are already ways to achieve what the OP is asking for, which makes the request ultimately a moot point.

 

 

 

 

[MsSmart]

8 hours ago, tidge said:

 

There is a wide variety of content that I've seen described as "tedious", and such an accusation always lands wrong with me. This is a game after all, and usually the thing accused of being tedious is both:

• Not required to play the game
• In the way of someone having the most awesome level 50+++/Incarnate character ever, because that is the only way they want to play the game.

The tedious accusation might peeve me less if the game didn't already make it pretty simple to achieve the second bullet point, even if it isn't "on demand".

Please explain, if you would, why others can't avoid what they perceive as tedium? If you dislike the QoL so much, there is a simple way to deal with it: Don't use it, no one is forcing you after all.

[tidge]

2 hours ago, MsSmart said:

Please explain, if you would, why others can't avoid what they perceive as tedium? If you dislike the QoL so much, there is a simple way to deal with it: Don't use it, no one is forcing you after all.

 

Nothing is stopping players who find the game boring or tedious from trying out whatever on Brainstorm... so why do so many avoid it?