I don't get why this is so much better than CO

[srmalloy]

The thing is, a lot of MMOs start from the assumption that everyone will be in teams/groups/parties, and then work from there.  The game never really adapts (or does so poorly) to larger or smaller numbers of players performing a particular quest.

 

For all of the MMOs that have come out of Asia, that's because that's the way people became accustomed to playing there. Home computers in Asia typically didn't have the graphics capability to run the games the publishers were producing (being primarily business-oriented), so the publishers cut deals with the internet cafés to subsidize hardware in exchange for offering their games. So people would get together with their friends, go down to the internet café, and play together sitting right next to each other, then go home until the next session. In the US and Europe, where home computers were more entertainment oriented, people would go home, log into the game, and either play solo or group with people they'd meet up with after logging in.

[PaxArcana]

The thing is, a lot of MMOs start from the assumption that everyone will be in teams/groups/parties, and then work from there.  The game never really adapts (or does so poorly) to larger or smaller numbers of players performing a particular quest.

For all of the MMOs that have come out of Asia, [...]

 

But the trend is true of more than just Asian MMOs.

 

Look at WoW Vanilla.  I started back then, with a Dwarf Hunter and his bear, Muffin.  I was in old Loch Modan when I hit level .. 12 or 22, I think.  And got a quest to go kill a laundry-list of tenty or so large Ogre/Cyclopes things, in their own valley to one side of that zone.  And .... they were all silver-frame Elites!  Every single last one of them!!  I could, just barely, take one SINGLE enemy down by myself.  Then run off to a secluded corner, and rest/eat/drink and feed Muffin.  I was, at my best, up to about one kill every 12 minutes.  (I quit when I found out that would be the pattern pretty much for the rest of the game at that point.  Came back after Wrath, when people I knew who still played said they'd done away with that nonsense.)

 

And that's a Western MMO.

[TfStormcry]

The thing is, a lot of MMOs start from the assumption that everyone will be in teams/groups/parties, and then work from there.  The game never really adapts (or does so poorly) to larger or smaller numbers of players performing a particular quest.

For all of the MMOs that have come out of Asia, [...]

 

But the trend is true of more than just Asian MMOs.

 

Look at WoW Vanilla.  I started back then, with a Dwarf Hunter and his bear, Muffin.  I was in old Loch Modan when I hit level .. 12 or 22, I think.  And got a quest to go kill a laundry-list of tenty or so large Ogre/Cyclopes things, in their own valley to one side of that zone.  And .... they were all silver-frame Elites!  Every single last one of them!!  I could, just barely, take one SINGLE enemy down by myself.  Then run off to a secluded corner, and rest/eat/drink and feed Muffin.  I was, at my best, up to about one kill every 12 minutes.  (I quit when I found out that would be the pattern pretty much for the rest of the game at that point.  Came back after Wrath, when people I knew who still played said they'd done away with that nonsense.)

 

And that's a Western MMO.

 

I'm going to say that's more a legacy from EQ, which early WOW emulated in some aspects. The original EQ was influenced heavily by D&D, more specifically 2nd edition. In D&D, you didn't solo a giant. you and your team of misfit murder hobos teamed up to fight the giant. Everquest followed this formula, though certain tactics emerged with time to allow solo'ing (Kiting, reverse kiting, etc...). Some things were able to be solo'd as they weren't Alpha monsters, some things needed teams to take down, and some things required lots of people to take down.

[GamerKate]

for me the main thing was lack of team play; CO seemed a lot more solo-oriented that city of heroes

 

That's actually saying a lot, given how solo friendly CoH is....

 

coh is solo 'friendly' in the sense that everything can solo, but you're heavily incentivized to team even at low level. In CO it seemed like basically everyone just soloed all the time, aside from in a few group instances. But I didn't play that long so maybe it's different at higher level

I don’t feel that in my playing at all. I play with my gf and two friends and duoing or trioing content is my favourite way to play. CoH doesn’t have the ‘holy trinity’ approach of other games, but I feel it has its own version for small teams, eg a scrapper, a blaster and a buffer/debuffer. And I’ve been duoing with my gf with two plant controllers and we’re having a blast.

 

MCM

[jubakumbi]

I don’t feel that in my playing at all. I play with my gf and two friends and duoing or trioing content is my favourite way to play. CoH doesn’t have the ‘holy trinity’ approach of other games, but I feel it has its own version for small teams, eg a scrapper, a blaster and a buffer/debuffer. And I’ve been duoing with my gf with two plant controllers and we’re having a blast.

 

1-4 players is the most fun I have in the game.

Playing with RL friends is where it's at IMO as well.

RL breaks and needs 'slowing down' playtime among RL friends is so much better.

 

I will say PuGs in CoH are a tad more forgiving of RL IME, but most still don't 'feel complete' it would seem, w/o 8 players, as many won't even budge until full, IME as well...

[Gentoo]

The community, in large part, but the community is in some degree a product of the game itself.

 

What makes CoH, CoH, is that it was at its core a game about -being a hero-, and the people that came fit that mold.  Further, it is a game where you can play with anyone, any level, any friend, at any time.  Barring a few trials where endgame performance might matter, everything is wide open to team up.

 

And the game encourages that teaming up, that playing together.  Many, many classes are at their best making everyone else better, or their lives easier.  Not 'sit in a corner and heal me' better, but empowering and building up your allies so that the whole is more than the sum of its parts - while at the very same time, each is capable of functioning on its own.  No dependencies, no hostility, no 'we cant do this unless we get an X and a Y and a Z'.

 

So everyone is free to play very naturally, and very non-competitively.  Theres not a question who gets the purple drop off the boss.  Noone can steal your kills or tag your mobs.  Its literally 'stronger together' the game, but in a positive way.

 

And the community, I think, grows out of that.  Everyone is not just able to help, but eager to help (sometimes over eager!).  And thats the real secret.  The structure of the game reinforces the good behavior we see, and the good behavior we see reinforces success in the game.  Its a virtuous cycle.

 

Also, and a total aside - 72 metric tons of content, vast ambition, sweeping spaces.  How many zones?  How many contacts and missions and storylines with actual story?  How much to do?  You wont have time to do it all.  Yould barely had time to do it all if you played from launch like it was your job - but you didnt have to play like it was your job.  Take a few months or years off, hop on your character, and roll out with your friends.  Sure, Sally may be an IOed demigod and your a sidekicked up mid-30s scrapper, but you wont be useless.  Your part of the team.  Part of the family.  So theres a lot to do, but not a lot of pressure to do it, except for the pressure you put on yourself.

 

Its.. really ideal for making a game thats a community and a family. 

 

And thats why we are here, why we came back, why adult professionals literally -cried- when they logged back in and heard the music again.  Its like coming home.

 

You summed up my addiction perfectly. I am a loner by heard, but this game got me teaming and having a great time. I was never big into super groups, but I really really enjoyed the random pickup groups I'd made to just do whatever content. I loved how I could invite anybody below my level (I didn't want to bother people above it) and they could be useful to the team even if the content was way way above their level. I agree that the game encouraged team work, discouraged personal conflict between players (nothing to argue over in the game), etc. Maybe this is why I was never able to get into any other MMO.

 

That and the fact that the costume creator is so great and its a super hero setting, so you can let your creativity go absolutely crazy. Want to be a french maid who runs around throwing soap at stuff? I did that! Mighty Maid is a FF/Water Defender. Want to be a Garden Gnome? You can do that? Want to be a dog or a cat? You can do that. If you can imagine it,  you can be it. Let the creativity run wild! ... Or play some other MMO where you all look basically the same or where your look is changed by your gear, etc.

[PaxArcana]

In D&D, you didn't solo a giant. you and your team of misfit murder hobos teamed up to fight the giant.

 

Not always.  My First Edition Cavalier would like to discuss the matter with you, at his home .... built of the bones of giants, dragons, and worse creatures.  That he killed.  Single-handedly.

 

(Okay, okay, the character was seriously OP and munchkin-y .... but I was fourteen years old when Unearthed Arcana came out, so that should not surprise you! :D )

[TfStormcry]

In D&D, you didn't solo a giant. you and your team of misfit murder hobos teamed up to fight the giant.

 

Not always.  My First Edition Cavalier would like to discuss the matter with you, at his home .... built of the bones of giants, dragons, and worse creatures.  That he killed.  Single-handedly.

 

(Okay, okay, the character was seriously OP and munchkin-y .... but I was fourteen years old when Unearthed Arcana came out, so that should not surprise you! :D )

 

Anything that came out of any editions unearthed arcana is at least a little broken, lol.

[Solvernia]

In D&D, you didn't solo a giant. you and your team of misfit murder hobos teamed up to fight the giant.

 

Joke's on you, our dwarven Troll Slayer once soloed a minotaur while standing on top of a dead cygor after everyone else ran away because they were dying.

[PaxArcana]

Anything that came out of any editions unearthed arcana is at least a little broken, lol.

... and why else do you think 14-year-old me loved it so very much?  :D :D :D

[Murcielago]

What is CO? Champions Online?

[PaxArcana]

What is CO? Champions Online?

 

Yes.

[EggKookoo]

What is CO? Champions Online?

 

Yes.

 

AKA the "CoH Killer"

 

I kid... I kid...

[Primantis]

What is CO? Champions Online?

 

Yes.

 

AKA the "CoH Killer"

 

I kid... I kid...

 

 

Jack sure thought so... Anyone remember that interview he did shortly before (or was it after?) CO's launch?

 

He spent more time dogging on CoH than he did promoting CO lol

[PaxArcana]

So very many people - me included - expected CO to wind up being a "City of Heroes II"; to take all of the awesomeness that was CoH and update it (especially graphics) to be newer, shinier, better.

 

I mean, I bought a Lifetime Subscription ($200), on top of a copy of hte game ($50), during the open Beta and before buying a new computer able to properly run the game, based in large part on the strength of CoH: I'd spend some 50 months subscribed to CoX by then, and expected to spend as long on CO, so $250 sounded like an amazing bargain.

 

I actually played for less than 5 months.  :'(

[jubakumbi]

So very many people - me included - expected CO to wind up being a "City of Heroes II"; to take all of the awesomeness that was CoH and update it (especially graphics) to be newer, shinier, better.

 

I mean, I bought a Lifetime Subscription ($200), on top of a copy of hte game ($50), during the open Beta and before buying a new computer able to properly run the game, based in large part on the strength of CoH: I'd spend some 50 months subscribed to CoX by then, and expected to spend as long on CO, so $250 sounded like an amazing bargain.

 

I actually played for less than 5 months.  :'(

 

A lessoned learned in not getting caught up in game hype.

 

Even today I see so many players think that a new game is going to live up to the unreachable hype that has been built around it.

 

Thankfully, I could see Mr. Emmert from a mile away and I did not believe his words.

 

Like many here, I wanted CO to be good, but when I heard the screams on day 1 ...

 

I learned my lesson on buying lifetime in pre-order on Secret World.

Got my value, but it is a totally different game now...

[PaxArcana]

So very many people - me included - expected CO to wind up being a "City of Heroes II"; to take all of the awesomeness that was CoH and update it (especially graphics) to be newer, shinier, better.

 

I mean, I bought a Lifetime Subscription ($200), on top of a copy of hte game ($50), during the open Beta and before buying a new computer able to properly run the game, based in large part on the strength of CoH: I'd spend some 50 months subscribed to CoX by then, and expected to spend as long on CO, so $250 sounded like an amazing bargain.

 

I actually played for less than 5 months.  :'(

 

A lessoned learned in not getting caught up in game hype.

It wasn't hype that convinced me.  It was proven track record of a company I had done business with for years.  Slight difference.

 

Like many here, I wanted CO to be good, but when I heard the screams on day 1 ...

Day One was about two weeks after I made my purchase decision.  It was too late by then.

[jubakumbi]

It wasn't hype that convinced me.  It was proven track record of a company I had done business with for years.  Slight difference.

 

Day One was about two weeks after I made my purchase decision.  It was too late by then.

 

Yeah.

I I won't be buying any lifetimes before games release anymore.

[TfStormcry]

I got the lifetime sub in beta. I remember the day 1 patch. I played Champions on and off for a few years, but quit permanently when all it became was a loot box cash grab.

[EggKookoo]

I bought a new computer to play CO. I played for maybe two weeks.

 

Turned out the new comp kicked ass at running CoH!

 

[PaxArcana]

It wasn't hype that convinced me.  It was proven track record of a company I had done business with for years.  Slight difference.

 

Day One was about two weeks after I made my purchase decision.  It was too late by then.

Yeah.

I I won't be buying any lifetimes before games release anymore.

 

I won't be buying any Lifetimes before games celebrate their 1st anniversary, anymore.

[eiynp]

buying lifetime subs at all has always been  :-X

[justicebeliever]

buying lifetime subs at all has always been  :-X

 

I've had good experience and great value with both my TiVo and SiriusXM lifetime subscriptions, so they aren't all bad...

[Sable Phoenix]

How is this still even a question?

[justicebeliever]

How is this still even a question?

 

I mean, no one has bothered to rename the post, but essential it's just a big dogpile of people sharing reasons why they like CoX better than Champions...

 

It's a fun read