Flight speed needs a buff

[ShardWarrior]

Really think flight speed needs to be increased to bring it in line with other travel sets.  It's a complete waste to have to take 2 powers in the flight pool to access Afterburner in order to make flight travel time almost comparable to other travel powers.  Also a waste of slots - 3 slots in SJ is still a bit faster for me to get around vs. 6 slots for flight (3 fly, 3 afterburner).

[DSorrow]

I would increase the flight speed cap, but not what the flight powers provide. Fly is already by far the most convenient travel power, so it makes sense you'd pay for it in speed or spending slots in the power (which is currently a waste because Fly + Swift and an SO in each already takes you to the speed cap).

[Six-Six]

I love flying around. One of the first power pools I pick because most of my toons have jet packs. The ones that don't, use sorcery flight. I wouldn't mind removing the speed cap on flight, then stack on to that the afterburner and just zoom across town. In fact, since I do a lot of flight combat (range) I'd use up a power pick to get hover to slow things down during a fight. Right now I have one toon with hover (no fly) testing how fast it would go with some COs or even IOs, just to see if it can come close to fly's speed. I have another toon with fly barely slotted (soar? on both fly and swift), but at maxed out with even a -14.26 penalty for something I can't pin down -- probably the drag from my costume (I knew capes were over-rated, but they look kewl).

 

Oh, did y'all know there's a badge if you go through the doughnut hole in Faultline/Outbrook?

 

[Trickshooter]

Fly + Swift and an SO in each already takes you to the speed cap

 

You don't even need the SO (or even Swift). Fly, by itself with no enhancements, hits the Flight speed cap at all levels (even level 1, if you could take it at level 1).

 

But anyway, I agree. Fly is already incredibly convenient compared to the other travel powers. I don't think it's in need of any buffs.

[Trickshooter]

a -14.26 penalty for something I can't pin down

 

This is the part of Fly that makes sure travel suppression slows flight speed down. Just ignore it, unless you're attacking you're constantly getting an additional flight speed buff to cancel it out.

[Zep]

Flight is the travel power I use the most between alts.

 

IMO it should not be speed buffed.

 

Flight is the most flexible and most easily used on maps, in building, etc.

 

At high levels flight is pretty fast.

 

Ppl with teleport and super jump really dont have the same fine movement on missions.

[justicebeliever]

Flight is the travel power I use the most between alts.

 

IMO it should not be speed buffed.

 

Flight is the most flexible and most easily used on maps, in building, etc.

 

At high levels flight is pretty fast.

 

Ppl with teleport and super jump really dont have the same fine movement on missions.

 

I mostly hover in maps, because I can leave it on during combat and get a defense boost.  And Fly already too fast for me most of the time in closed map missions.  I’d be fine if putting a Fly enhancement actually speeds it up without adjusting the base speed.

[EggKookoo]

Flight + Afterburner is now effectively faster than Super Speed. You know, the travel power with "speed" in its name.

 

Flight is fine.

[Chuckers]

I forgot about the defense boost in hover... I just don't take it anymore.. and now I should for my squishier characters.

 

While I would like to fly faster, I understand why I can't and am fine with it. There is very little risk with flight and therefore, I feel, it should have some downside compared to other powers.

[ShardWarrior]

Flight + Afterburner is now effectively faster than Super Speed. You know, the travel power with "speed" in its name.

 

That's the point - one pool needs 2 power selections to bring it on par with 1 power from the other.

 

I'd also argue that "convenience" is irrelevant in a game where jetpacks, teleporters and such are available for purchase at any time. 

[justicebeliever]

Flight + Afterburner is now effectively faster than Super Speed. You know, the travel power with "speed" in its name.

 

Flight is fine.

I love SS too, it gives a great stealth buff, and doesn’t require 3 powers to be useful (Hover, Fly, Afterburner).  Because afterburner is truly useless in all ways except as a travel power.

 

I've wondered if in place like Steel Canyon or something if Fly is truly faster (in Actual Speed, as Opposed to Spped Cap).  SS can run along the ground (no need to go up or down) and doesn’t have to worry about avoiding mobs (Stealth), whereas Fly would require you to go above the mobs and then back down to the ground. 

[EggKookoo]

Flight + Afterburner is now effectively faster than Super Speed. You know, the travel power with "speed" in its name.

 

That's the point - one pool needs 2 power selections to bring it on par with 1 power from the other.

 

It should take a second power to make a travel power go as fast as the "speed" travel power. And in practice, Flight + Afterburner is significantly faster than just Super Speed on its own. Like, my flying teammate gets to the mission door well ahead of me, with enough time to set up dancing emotes and whatnot. If I want to keep parity (not beat, but tie), I have to take something like Super Jump to deal with vertical obstacles. That's two powers from two different pools just to be functionally as fast as someone taking two powers from a single pool.

 

Flight is fine. If anything, Super Speed needs a worthwhile capstone.

[justicebeliever]

Flight + Afterburner is now effectively faster than Super Speed. You know, the travel power with "speed" in its name.

 

That's the point - one pool needs 2 power selections to bring it on par with 1 power from the other.

 

It should take a second power to make a travel power go as fast as the "speed" travel power. And in practice, Flight + Afterburner is significantly faster than just Super Speed on its own. Like, my flying teammate gets to the mission door well ahead of me, with enough time to set up dancing emotes and whatnot. If I want to keep parity (not beat, but tie), I have to take something like Super Jump to deal with vertical obstacles. That's two powers from two different pools just to be functionally as fast as someone taking two powers from a single pool.

 

Flight is fine. If anything, Super Speed needs a worthwhile capstone.

 

But there is a practical challenge with SS that isn't with Flight/Afterburner, and that is it really requires a lot of paying attention to to avoid obstacles and navigate the many more turns you can face.  If it went much faster it would be impossible for me to use...that's just me..

[EggKookoo]

I've wondered if in place like Steel Canyon or something if Fly is truly faster (in Actual Speed, as Opposed to Spped Cap).  SS can run along the ground (no need to go up or down) and doesn’t have to worry about avoiding mobs (Stealth), whereas Fly would require you to go above the mobs and then back down to the ground.

 

Slotted out, Super Speed is like, what, 5mph faster than Fly + Afterburner. In a flat drag race, the Superspeeder will beat the Afterburning Flyer by a few seconds over the length of something like SC. In reality, the travel path is almost never a straight line and certainly not without things the runner has to jump over.

 

Here's how it happens. We get our mission location on our compass. The Fly player immediately takes off and kicks on Afterburner. Maybe about 2 seconds later, they orient themselves and head toward the destination at near-SS speeds. They're above any MOBs and most buildings, and perhaps have to slalom around some of the taller skyscrapers that are in the way. Meanwhile, the SS player has to first orient themselves before moving at SS, lest they run into some MOBs or into a wall or whatever. Then they can turn on SS but almost immediately will have to address the nearest vertical obstacle. They have to judge if they can jump it, and if they misjudge that, they have to turn off and find a way over it. If the best option (such as in SC) is one of those switchback staircase things, they have to actually shut off SS to go up it (try leaving it on, it's not fun). Then when they get past that obstacle, they have to repeat the process, making "jump or go around" decisions constantly, zig-zagging as needed. And SS is only a smidge faster in actual velocity than Afterburner, so they don't get that feeling they can afford that extra time.

 

Super Jump helps a lot with this, mainly by simplifying the decision to jump or go around, but it doesn't add any extra speed. Sometimes it feels the opposite -- I'm not sure my SS velocity carries through when I'm Super Jumping, aside from some initial momentum. When I hit the ground, it definitely feels like I lurch forward, which implies I lost forward speed during some of that jump.

 

Compare this to the pre-Afterburner days, when, yes, the Super Speed player often got to the destination first. But they felt they earned that by learning the map, and if they screwed up with too many misjudged walls, they know it was their own (lack of) knowledge of the map that held them back, not some magic "let's just make Fly as fast" dev decision. And it was nicely thematic -- the "Flash" gets to lounge and do the "hey, what kept ya?" stuff. It felt, well, Super Speedy. Not so much nowadays.

 

I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm happy the Flyers get a speed boost. And I'm not actually asking to make Super Speed any faster. I just don't think we need to make Fly even faster yet.

[ShardWarrior]

It should take a second power to make a travel power go as fast as the "speed" travel power.

 

You're still not getting it - very simple math here... 2 > 1.

 

 

[EggKookoo]

It should take a second power to make a travel power go as fast as the "speed" travel power.

 

You're still not getting it - very simple math here... 2 > 1.

 

Of course I get it. I'm saying that's how it should be in this particular equation.

[ShardWarrior]

Of course I get it. I'm saying that's how it should be in this particular equation.

 

Why is there only 1 "speed" power?  Thematically, there are superheroes that can fly at super luminal speeds or leap out of orbit.  Making one less than the other in terms of speed is just silly.

 

[Trickshooter]

It should take a second power to make a travel power go as fast as the "speed" travel power.

 

You're still not getting it - very simple math here... 2 > 1.

 

I think most of us are getting what you're saying, but we just disagree.

 

You feel that Fly needs Afterburner to compete with the other travel powers, while the rest of us seem to feel that Fly is already on par with the other travel powers and Afterburner just makes it better.

[ShardWarrior]

I think most of us are getting what you're saying, but we just disagree.

 

You feel that Fly needs Afterburner to compete with the other travel powers, while the rest of us seem to feel that Fly is already on par with the other travel powers and Afterburner just makes it better.

 

But base fly is not on par with base SS or SJ or Teleport.

[EggKookoo]

But there is a practical challenge with SS that isn't with Flight/Afterburner, and that is it really requires a lot of paying attention to to avoid obstacles and navigate the many more turns you can face.  If it went much faster it would be impossible for me to use...that's just me..

 

Agreed. I don't think they could make Super Speed any faster. I wouldn't want them to.

 

Really, they screwed up by adding Afterburner. If the solution for Super Speed getting over high obstacles is to take something from the Leaping pool, then the solution to getting Fly faster should have been to allow Super Speed to enhance Fly speed.

 

My main complaint isn't about Afterburner, though (although I do argue Fly is fast enough now). It's that Burnout sucks.

[Trickshooter]

I think most of us are getting what you're saying, but we just disagree.

 

You feel that Fly needs Afterburner to compete with the other travel powers, while the rest of us seem to feel that Fly is already on par with the other travel powers and Afterburner just makes it better.

 

But base fly is not on par with base SS or SJ or Teleport.

 

Only when you disregard the other benefits of Fly. Fly is the easiest to use, the safest to use, offers the most control of movement and has practical use in combat.

[EggKookoo]

Why is there only 1 "speed" power?  Thematically, there are superheroes that can fly at super luminal speeds or leap out of orbit.  Making one less than the other in terms of speed is just silly.

 

Heroes that fly at super high speeds have... Super Speed. They took both pools.

 

I mean, if I can run at ~80mph, why do I need to take Super Jump to make really high jumps? The physics that allow running that fast could also allow me to launch myself way high into the air. The game divides up uses of what we might otherwise think of the "same" ability for balance and thematic reasons. Otherwise there would just be, say, one "fire" power.

[ShardWarrior]

Only when you disregard the other benefits of Fly. Fly is the easiest to use, the safest to use, offers the most control of movement and has practical use in combat.

 

In all my years playing before sunset and now, never once have I found SS, SJ or Teleport any more or less difficult or unsafe to use than Fly.

 

I mean, if the only claim here is that you can afk and grab a coffee while auto flying to a mission door vs needing to run around a building with SS, then that really isn't an argument as far as I'm concerned. 

 

Just about everyone I roll with doesn't use travel powers in missions either, unless they are stealthing one on a long TF or something, but in those instances they have invis running so "safety" isn't an issue.

[EggKookoo]

In all my years playing before sunset and now, never once have I found SS, SJ or Teleport any more or less difficult or unsafe to use than Fly.

 

Not sure what to say to this. The general consensus is that Fly is objectively easier to use than the other three, if for no other reason that you can get above danger and autopilot.

[PaxArcana]

In all my years playing before sunset and now, never once have I found SS, SJ or Teleport any more or less difficult or unsafe to use than Fly.

You've never had to go to the bathroom while crossing a zone you're at the minimum level for?

 

Fly:  shoot straight up to 100, 150 feet.  Go use the bathroom.  Come back - you were and are 100% perfectly safe.

 

Teleport, SS, SJ: try to find somewhere with no mobs.  Keep trying.  Nope, not there.  Try again.  Give up, head for the Trainer or an interior space.  If that was a mission, keep your fingers crossed there wasn't an ambush while you were on the toilet.

 

...

 

Heck, with Fly, I've been able to go Badge-hunting in zones 10 or so levels higher than I was.  With the others .... not so much.  (Though Teleport + Hover works really well, that's still two powers, not just the one.)