How would you build the Trinity (DC)

[justicebeliever]

I love homage characters...and I sometimes make low level alts to try out different homages...I'm wondering what would you all do to recreate the DC Trinity, Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman?

 

What AT would you use?  What powersets?  What powerpools?  Any critical powers in the set that the defining trait, or powers you would skip because they are out of place?

 

My only rule is that what powersets/AT are BEST for the concept, not necessary the most min/maxed...

 

For example, I would be hard pressed to suggest anything other than a SS Tanker for Superman...but, what do I know?

 

Anyone willing to post their ideas?

[Xaeon]

Superman is a Invuln/SS tanker who builds a lot for psionic resistance, takes flight as his travel power pool, energy mastery for his ancillary, and cryonic judgement as his judgement. Easy enough.

 

Wonder Woman can either be an StJ/Invulnerability scrapper or a Broadsword/Shield scrapper (or perhaps a tanker, she is incredibly tough) depending on the time period.  She uses either mighty judgement or ionic judgement depending on the era.

 

Batman is kind of tricky but I'd go for Street Justice/Willpower scrapper/stalker (or alternatively; A Street Justice/Ninjitsu Scrapper/Stalker) with the never released utility belt origin pool (obviously) and weapon mastery as his ancillary pool. 

 

On the Marvel side of things:

 

Iron man is...very difficult because he does a million different things. You could argue for dozens of different AT and powerset combos and its made even worse by his exact powerset changing as he upgrades his armours or when he pulls out his specialist armours. The traditional answer is an Energy Blast Sentinel with your choice of resilience powers who also takes a lot of melee pool powers but I've seen many argue for a human form PB as well.  The Hulkbuster is just straight up an Invuln/SS tanker though.

 

Thor is comparatively very easy: an invulnerability/war mace tanker (or perhaps brute; little known fact but Thor can fly into berserker rages that increase his strength massively) who takes Mu mastery, flight as his travel pool (though one could argue for sorcery instead as he can do stuff like teleport, shoot energy blasts, and cast protective spells with his hammer) and uses ionic judgement. You might argue for electric armour instead of invulnerability but Thor was the first "Marvel's superman" so I feel that invulnerability works better. Stormbreaker Thor probably uses Titan Weapons due to the size of the weapon and how he usually swings it two handed.

 

Captain America is a Street Justice/Shield Defense Scrapper, maybe a Tanker; but in either case he's someone who dips very heavily into the leadership pool and takes free running from utility belt. If you do not take every leadership power with a captain america homage you are hereby declared to be doing it wrong.

 

Other popular characters:

 

Spider-Man is to me; a martial arts/super reflexes tanker that makes use of utility belt and some mace mastery powers for the controls. Why tanker and not scrapper? Spider-Man's super reflexes are a step above most other fast people because he not only moves and reacts faster, he has an early warning system that lets him start reacting before you even start moving. Not only that but he's very, very good at taunting people. Dude probably six slots taunt.

 

Flash: Flash is kind of difficult because CoX has self admittedly never really represented how speedsters fight very well, though to be fair video games as a whole have long struggled with superspeed in 3D movement environments. The stereotypical answer is kinetic melee/super reflexes scrapper yet Kinetic Melee doesn't really feel fast enough and its tai chi style movements don't really fit how flash actually fights. I'd roll him into the "not really possible to represent adequetely in CoX" category. But I'm open to ideas.

 

Hulk: I'm going to be controversial and say that Hulk is actually a Super Strength/Willpower Brute, not an Invulnerability Brute. Hulk's durability in terms of how hard he is to hurt is actually rather middling in Marvel. Thor is far harder to cut or bruise than he is; nevermind someone like Juggernaut. What keeps Hulk going is that his healing factor is ridiculous. Willpower's "if it doesn't kill you in one go it's not killing you ever" even fits with how to beat the Hulk. The way to beat the Hulk without "cheating" is traditionally to floor him with Alpha Strikes that K.O him before he gets angry enough to become strong enough to win the fight.  He's also probably someone who builds for multi-stack rage but has the ability to ignore the crash.  He also obviously takes super jump and mighty jugement, probably fighting too.

 

Green Lantern: Not gonna lie, this one's kind of tricky. The traditional answer is energy/energy blaster or human form PB but we all know that's not really the most satisfying way to represent the versatility of the Green Lanterns. Other alternatives include force field/energy defenders (or the reverse for corruptors), but it'll never quite feel as versatile as the Green Lantern should be. 

 

Doctor Strange/Fate: Doctor Strange and Fate like most comic book wizards simply do too many things at once and are too powerful (it is not a joke to say that Doctor Strange and Fate are more powerful than the rest of the Avengers/Justice League combined and its not even close) to be adequetely contained in the AT system and probably would have needed the planned future "multiple incarnates per slot" endgame thing they were going to do once we got past the Omega slot to get even close to how versatile they are.

 

Thanos: Endgame Thanos is probably best represented as an invulnerability/titan weapons tanker. He's stupid durable, his sword hits harder than any other weapon we've seen in the MCU besides maybe Stormbreaker and he can get it going fast once he gets going. You can slot pool powers to taste as well.

 

Aquaman: Staff Fighting and honestly your choice of secondaries, probably a scrapper or maybe a brute. While he does have hydrokinetic powers, he primarily dusts it up in melee when he actually fights. I'd go for invulnerability or willpower myself but I can see arguments for others. 

 

Captain marvel: Human Form Peacebringer.  Like look in a dictionary for "human form peacebringer" and it will literally just be a picture of Carol Danvers.

 

Shazam: I'd say Invuln/SS tanker with Mu mastery and Ionic judgement myself but I can hear arguments for him being an Elec/Elec Tanker with Mu Mastery and Ionic Judgement; but electricity is a rather secondary component of his powerset.

 

Black Panther: Savage Melee/Invulnerability Brute. As his claws are on his fingers and he fights in a very fluid and mobile way I think savage melee fits better than claws does any day. Invulnerability is rather obvious as thanks to the force absorbtion capabilities of Vibranium it's very hard to make T'Challa so much as flinch from most attacks. One could make an argument for radiation but its a bit too visually busy for my tastes. His vibranium armour's ability to release its stored energy in a pulse can be represented by any judgement of your choosing. 

 

Black Canary: Literally just a Sonic Blast/Martial Combat Blaster.

 

Hawkeye/Green Arrow: Trick Arrow/Archery Defender? Archery/Trick Arrow Corruptor? Archery/Tactical Arrow blaster? Archery/Martial Combat Blaster? Archery/Ninja Training Blaster? Whatever man the two have done a wide variety of things throughout the years, pick whichever fits you. Though I'd say that an Archery/Tactical Arrow Blaster who dips heavily into the fighting pool and took utility belt is probably the best fit for their "standard" fighting style.

 

The Lizard: I'd probably go for a Savage Melee/Bio Armour Brute for Connors, Connors heals dummy quick, fights like an absolute savage, is one of the most resilient spider-man villains even without his healing factor, and is generally much stronger than Spider-Man is.

 

Ares (DC but also kind of applies to marvel): Ares is probably a brute and is also probably whichever weapon combo you want to pair with invulnerability. He's the god of war and an instant expert with any weapon you put in his hands; go nuts. I'd probably also take fighting, sorcery, and vorpal judgement with him too. 

 

Doctor Doom: Hoo boy, Doom is shall we say, someone who you could argue to have literally every power set and AT in the game all at once through his combination of magic and technology. He's in the same boat of being too versatile for CoX's AT system to handle as Doctor Strange and Fate. 

 

Bane: I'd probably go for either super strength or street justice for everyone's favourite evil luchadore and then your choice of willpower, regeneration, or invulnerability and then make him a brute. However Bane is a very cunning man and an able leader of mercenaries, so he likely has leadership and I think free running + sprint about covers his movement capabilities. He definitely also takes fighting for tough and weave. Note that just how "super" bane is depends on the era and writer. Sometimes he's simply comic book peak human for someone of his size and physique (which is to say, very definitely super-human) other times he can bench press and throw a semi-truck. 

 

 

[Hopeling]

That's a /thread, folks. Xaeon nailed it.

[Transhumanish]

Green Lantern: Not gonna lie, this one's kind of tricky. The traditional answer is energy/energy blaster or human form PB but we all know that's not really the most satisfying way to represent the versatility of the Green Lanterns. Other alternatives include force field/energy defenders (or the reverse for corruptors), but it'll never quite feel as versatile as the Green Lantern should be. 

 

The closest I've found, by far, for a Green Lantern or similar construct-generating character, is an Earth Control and either Force Field or Cold Domination controller, with Primal Forces epic pool. With the Earth Control powers reskinned to crystals of the appropriate color. Yes, it means that all your constructs have a very specific crystalline look, but at least they're transluscent and almost glow, so come closest to a ring-bearer. This also puts them more in line with the very control-centric seeming powers they often have in the comics. At the cost of the raw energy blasts earlier on, sure, but eventually you do get some solid energy-based ranged attacks.

[Flitwick]

Let us make it slightly more difficult and also try and determine their Origin. I know for a fact that Superman would be difficult to place.

[Transhumanish]

Let us make it slightly more difficult and also try and determine their Origin. I know for a fact that Superman would be difficult to place.

 

Superman is a Natural origin hero, as is Supergirl, Zod, and all the other Kryptonians. ALL of whom inherently gain those powers under a yellow sun as part of their species. Yes, in some stories now and then, Kal-El is somewhat modified beyond standard Kryptonian by super-science. However, every other Kryptonian displays similar powers--some to even greater degrees (Kal has on more than one occasion indicated his cousin, Kara Zor-El, is actually more powerful than he is--or at least has greater top-end potential). Thus, because basically every single Kryptonian we've ever seen has displayed the same levels of extreme strength, durability, heat vision, speed, flight, etc, Superman has, it is clear that the vast, vast, vast majority of his power is simply an inherent part of his entire species, which makes him Natural. Any modifications he might have simply enhance his overwhelming Natural origin strengths rather than define him. Remember, this is his origin. His origin is coming from a species that gains absurd levels of powers under the light of a yellow sun, and through circumstance growing up under just such a sun. If he had been exposed to the light of a yellow sun under any other circumstances, he would have discovered he possessed the same kinds of extraordinary power; if he weren't Kryptonian, the technology that sent him to that other planet would have just saved his life but he'd still be a "normal" person; in other words, it's still his Kryptonian genetics that made him a superhero, not the ship that flew him to Earth.

 

Batman is also a Natural origin hero, but does use a significant amount of technology. However, push comes to shove, he relies more on his natural ability and training than anything else. Always, they have him using his natural intellect and his intense combat training to overcome, with technology being nothing more than a side tool he uses to enhance his natural strengths. Same deal. The origin of his powers isn't technology, it's honing his own body and mind. Tony Stark, conversely, might have a brilliant mind, but his origins as a superhero are because of the technology he developed and used, thus his origin as a hero is Technology, without which he is highly unlikely to have become a superhero.

 

Wonder Woman is magic. Magic isn't merely defined as being powered by magic in CoX, but alternatively as having inherent ties to divinity in some way, which makes magic the core aspect of what gives her supernatural abilities, which she enhances with training. Diana is straight-up directly linked intimately with the divinity of the Greek gods, from which her powers derive. Thus, Magic origin.

 

Like Superman, the Martian Manhunter is a Natural origin hero. Inherently, all green Martians have the same suite of abilities J'onn has. Official DC sources plainly and unequivocally state that his abilities are common to almost all members of his species. In fact, his BROTHER was a mutant who was born without the ability to manifest telepathy--unlike everyone else in his family, who were standard Martians, J'onn included. Thus, because the shapeshifting, phasing, telepathy, etc, are all simply inherent and utterly normal parts of being a green Martian, the Martian Manhunter is a Natural origin hero.

 

Flash is a Science origin hero. His powers came from a scientific accident with a cocktail of chemicals and lightning that bound him to a fundamental force of the DC universe. He grew from there, and found a web of connections to the Speed Force he never knew about involving all sorts of time travel shenanigans. But his ORIGIN as a hero is Science.

 

Green Lantern is a Technology origin hero. His powers and his origin as a superhero flat out come from a single piece of mind-bogglingly powerful technology: his power ring. Yes, there might be very specific side-stories involving entities like Parallax inhabiting his body, but his origin as a hero is acquiring a single piece of technology, without which he would have remained merely another human being. A talented test pilot, sure, but still just a human being.

 

 

[Williwaw]

"Green Lantern" isn't a singular person, and how I'd represent them depends entirely on the person wielding the ring.  Energy Blast, Energy Assault, Energy Manipulation, Psi Melee, Force Fields, Gravity Control, Illusion Control... all viable options, though almost anything could work if you color it green.  Even Broad Sword/Shield Scrapper

 

Back on Live I had a Gravity/Electric Dominator based loosely on classic Sinestro, with the Singularity, Voltaic Sentinel, and the objects summoned by Propel as his constructs.  (Modern "Fear me! For I am fear! Did I mention fear? Also, fear!" Sinestro I'd make as a Dark/Dark Dominator instead)

 

So I kinda feel like there's no "wrong" AT or powerset for a Green Lantern, it all depends on how you want to play them.

 

Also, for the Hulk, I feel like Radiation Armor probably best represents his actual defensive abilities (including healing faster as he gets hit more), but the overly-busy visuals spoil it for me. If there was a Minimal FX version of Radiation Armor, that would be my choice for the Hulk.

[Hablaguy287]

I honestly think for a Spider-Man build wise, can be proven a bit hard depending who's designing that spesific area.

 

If I did one? I would go to Tanker despite viewing him as a 'dodge tank', beside being super agile and hard to hit, he's insanely strong. We are talking about a superhero who could bench ranking from cars to heavy debris that weighs more than what I can normally lift (around 10 tons). So I would go with Super Strength and change the effects of the animation to seem more 'combative' rather than more hulk-like smash movements. But seeing it would aim more Superman style, Street Justice isn't half bad of a choice to pick. Super Reflexes has 'Acute Senses' which can be seen as their 'Spider-Sense' ability selection to dodge every attacks that may come in your ways.

 

I don't think Martial Arts would work that much, not because it seems a bit 'out-dated' but because it just sometime wouldn't fit exactly that departure of his abilities, maybe back then it would but despite gaining newer archetypes, Street Justice seems to be more perfect along the line for it.

[Haijinx]

If I was going to make a comic book necromancer ...

[Ignatz the Insane]

On 7/19/2019 at 7:23 PM, Xaeon said:

Superman is a Invuln/SS tanker who builds a lot for psionic resistance, takes flight as his travel power pool, energy mastery for his ancillary, and cryonic judgement as his judgement. Easy enough.

Great write-up, agree with most of it.  However, Superman frequently had a weakness to mind control in the comics.  His major weaknesses apart from kryptonite and lack of a yellow sun are magic, ionic radiation, and mind control powers.  

[Sovera]

4 minutes ago, Ignatz the Insane said:

Great write-up, agree with most of it.  However, Superman frequently had a weakness to mind control in the comics.  His major weaknesses apart from kryptonite and lack of a yellow sun are magic, ionic radiation, and mind control powers.  

His weaknesses tend to be pretty subjective. He has resisted and plain outfought a grand majority of psychics trying to take him on and even the Maxwell Lord event was played as literally years of pushing until having formed a chink.

 

The same for magic. Oh yes, hear him loudly claim how magic is his weakness. Then watch him disregard magic. A normal person hit by lightning doesn't get a 'bit' stunned. But he takes several of those in a row and just gets a bit woozy before winning the fight.

 

Like most things in comics writers don't care about power levels and just telling a story. So in one he'll be weak to magic and in another he'll tank magical lightning. In one story he'll break chains 'used to tow stars from one galaxy to another' and in another be in a fist fight and be unable to down someone.

[Ignatz the Insane]

Fair enough.   It definitely depends on which version of Superman we're talking about.  I was thinking about the N52 version when I wrote that.  

[Menelruin]

I'd argue that Spidey needs a defensive set paired with an Assault set,  due to how frequently and fluidly he shifts between melee and ranged (web) attacks.

 

I also for kicks made a bunch of Lantern Corps characters a while ago.  Red is Fire/Fire blaster.  Yellow could be either psi melee or psi blast.  Orange I had as Illusion troller with Kin (it struck me as the power set most based on "I take your strength and add it to myself.").  Green I did as FF/NRG defender, but as mentioned above, it could be a slew of things.  Blue was Illusion/FF troller.  Indigo pretty much HAS to be an Emp defender on principle.  Indigo I think I did as Earth/Energy dominator with the crystal effects.  Black was, of course, Necro/Dark MM.

 

I might argue that Superman is a Science origin, simply because exposure to yellow sunlight is in and of itself an unnatural occurrence for his species.  It's the same as if you had a human with an IV of some ability-boosting serum, 24-7.  Take away the unnatural factor, and he goes  back to being a normal dude. 

[Charistoph]

4 hours ago, Menelruin said:

I'd argue that Spidey needs a defensive set paired with an Assault set,  due to how frequently and fluidly he shifts between melee and ranged (web) attacks.

The webs would be part of his mastery (if we had a web-based one).  Most incarnations of Spidey have them be technological additions rather than a result of his powers.  In most cases, they aren't used very offensively and are mostly control powers.

Oddly enough, even though Spidey is technically a Science origin, a magical connection was made for him as being a member of an animal totem that a certain vampiric family would pursue to extend their lives.

 

And Kal-El is Natural unless that specific universe has him being meddled with by his father to survive without kryptonite radiation (which is why it poisons him).  It's happened in one universe, but there are a lot of what-ifs, including one that Superman wasn't even conceived until right before his rocket launched from Krypton, as Zod's son.

 

Batman I'd make a Natural Street Justice/Ninjitsu/Weapon Stalker.  This would have most of his dodging abilities as well as all of his "wonderful toys".

[Menelruin]

8 minutes ago, Charistoph said:

The webs would be part of his mastery (if we had a web-based one).  Most incarnations of Spidey have them be technological additions rather than a result of his powers.  In most cases, they aren't used very offensively and are mostly control powers.

Oddly enough, even though Spidey is technically a Science origin, a magical connection was made for him as being a member of an animal totem that a certain vampiric family would pursue to extend their lives.

 

And Kal-El is Natural unless that specific universe has him being meddled with by his father to survive without kryptonite radiation (which is why it poisons him).  It's happened in one universe, but there are a lot of what-ifs, including one that Superman wasn't even conceived until right before his rocket launched from Krypton, as Zod's son.

 

Batman I'd make a Natural Street Justice/Ninjitsu/Weapon Stalker.  This would have most of his dodging abilities as well as all of his "wonderful toys".

My point with Supes is that the yellow sunlight exposure, for HIM, is no more natural than Bane pumping Venom into himself.  It's his body reacting to something that, for his evolutionary biology, is a foreign and unusual occurrence. 

 

EDIT:  Imagine there's a kind of kryptonite that gives normal humans the powers of Kryptonians as long as they're near it (and there probably IS, with all the kinds out there).  Now imagine you've got a guy who has a piece of it on a necklace, under his costume.  Would you classify that dude as Natural, or Science? 

Edited February 26, 2020 by Menelruin

[Charistoph]

2 hours ago, Menelruin said:

My point with Supes is that the yellow sunlight exposure, for HIM, is no more natural than Bane pumping Venom into himself.  It's his body reacting to something that, for his evolutionary biology, is a foreign and unusual occurrence. 

 

EDIT:  Imagine there's a kind of kryptonite that gives normal humans the powers of Kryptonians as long as they're near it (and there probably IS, with all the kinds out there).  Now imagine you've got a guy who has a piece of it on a necklace, under his costume.  Would you classify that dude as Natural, or Science? 

Not quite the same thing.  Yellow sunlight is completely natural.  For Kryptonians, this is a natural consequence of being exposed to it and can quickly lose its benefits when exposed to a counter radiation or simply deprived of the yellow sunlight for a sufficient amount of time.

 

Kryptonite's origins are far more suspect depending on which origination you're going with.  In fact, Smallville first few seasons are replete with these types of instances.  With few exceptions, those mutated by kryptonite retain their abilities long after being separated from the source, indicating that their genetic structure has changed. 

 

The power that the Kryptonians get is not a mutation or alteration, as with the "meteor freaks", but a super-charging of the energy reservoirs of said Kryptonians.  In fact, as further evidence of how natural those reserves are, the original Doomsday is Kryptoanian, forced through a brutal, but rapid, evolutionary development to become the beast he was.

[Omega-202]

I have tried numerous conbinations for Spidey and in the end, the best setups I've made were StJ/Invuln/Mu Scrapper and Crab/Mu Soldier focusing on the melee attacks + Fighting pool + Jump Kick and Leap Attack from Jumping, as an Iron Spider setup.  Beast run is on a lot of the time and the crouch emote is hotkeyed.

 

You might say that Invuln doesn't fit thematically, but I feel like it fits best in effect.  My build is defense capped to all but Psi (fits Peter's super reflexes), has solid resistance to most damage (he's still decently tough), and has Dull Pain for those "dig deep" Spidey moments.  

 

The Crab version is also really fun and fits a more mature, later years Spidey who embraced the tech.  Very similar defenses to the invuln build, and supplements the punches and kicks with some arm slashes.  I have it as an alt build on my main Crab and skip all of the arm blasts. I still take Venom Grenade for effectiveness and because gas grenades are totally something the Iron Spider suit would have in its tool kit.

 

The biggest thing was when I discovered how much the electric sets look like webbing when colored white.  The Mu pool becomes a great "web" set if you go with a bright white recolor, with standard single target blasts, ball "web" bombs and tangling webs (immobs and holds).  Saves you from having to suspend disbelief by using the Mace webs or the web grenade in Weapon Mastery.  

[Charistoph]

Heh, almost as thematic to go Night Widow with Mu Mastery, but I guess that would be more in keeping with DC's Spider due to the villiany and all.

[Omega-202]

1 hour ago, Charistoph said:

Heh, almost as thematic to go Night Widow with Mu Mastery, but I guess that would be more in keeping with DC's Spider due to the villiany and all.

If you wanted to go with the short lived period of time that Peter had his wrist stingers, Widow could work.  I personally never liked that powerset for him in the comics (or any of the other random biological upgrades he got in that storyline).