Bots vs Mercs

[Residualshade]

I am thinking of making a Bot or Merc + Time MM. what are the pros and cos of each primary? which do you prefer and why?

[Jon]

Bots > Mercs on their own because of the Bots' regen debuffing capabilities, but honestly Time Manipulation is such a good set that you would be fine playing any of the MM primaries with it. I know it may seem like a cop-out answer, but with Time I'd genuinely just go with whichever primary feels more interesting to you.

[Tigress]

Bots is so much stronger than Mercs, it hurts. However great time is in the end, its a super late bloomer set. Bots have no area attacks (but the pitiful Protector Bot grenades and the Assault Bot flamethrower) prior to 32, when suddenly they all get superior area goodness. Try and suffer through the early levels though, and you will be rewarded by a staggering amount of firepower, enhanced through the amazing time buffs. Go for it!

[khy]

Bots : Offer tremendous versatility, but with fewer debuffs and SLIGHTLY less damage overall.

Mercs : Offer slightly more damage and debuffs at the expense of versatility.

 

Bots are a bit more tanky since they have more heals (Each of the 2 lieutenants can single-target heal, and the unique power is a single target full-heal) and some defense buffs. If you have a strong buffing secondary they can become VERY difficult to kill.

Mercs are less tanky and more damaging, since they have significantly less healing but they do have the Serum which offers a significant offensive boost. Their only direct healing is the third minion pet which is a medic with a single target heal.

[Tigress]

I used to level both a Robotics and Merc mastermind, but I always found, my bots clean the playing field a lot faster then the mercs can possibly can, but that may have something to do with slotting and/or boosts through secondaries. Of course the bots survivability is a lot higher through a good combination of defense, healing and damage resistance.

[Ozium]

how do the others compare to bots?  constant clunking bit annoying

[zimz]

It seems no matter what pets you choose, they will all be "fine"

 

But Bots and Thugs often seems to be mentioned as number 1.

 

Necro/Ninja as number 2

 

And mercs/beasts as number 3

[Adeon Hawkwood]

Don't forget Demons, they're also generally considered Tier 1 (or possibly 1.5). I'd also swap Mercs and Necro in that list, from what I can recall Necro was generally considered the weakest MM primary.

 

That being said Masterminds as a whole are pretty powerful so even a weak primary makes for a pretty powerful character overall.

[Ragnar]

If you go Mercs it's almost mandatory to slot an Achilles Heel Proc for -20% RES into the Soldiers Power. All of the soldiers attacks can proc it.

Low effort to make all of the Merc Pets a bit more viable in the damage department.

 

You could also slot the Universal Damage Proc (Knockback to Knockdown) into the commando, so that he doesn't scatter all the mobs.

Many Merc attacks are cones and it's better to keep the Mobs tightly packed.

[scran]

If you go Mercs it's almost mandatory to slot an Achilles Heel Proc for -20% RES into the Soldiers Power. All of the soldiers attacks can proc it.

Low effort to make all of the Merc Pets a bit more viable in the damage department.

 

You could also slot the Universal Damage Proc (Knockback to Knockdown) into the commando, so that he doesn't scatter all the mobs.

Many Merc attacks are cones and it's better to keep the Mobs tightly packed.

 

Might be better to put the OF kb2kd on soldiers to let all their attacks have a chance to kd and make the medic grenade kd and put the sudden acceleration kb to kd on the commando.

[cognimancer]

I took both to high levels. I fully tricked out my Bots and got my mercs to 50 but didnt go all in. Short story: the Bots outperformed the mercs most of the time. However, spec ops are all kinds of fun. At high levels I found that the crowd control offered by the spec ops was less important than the support offered by protector bots. Also, the commando is dumb. I mean really dumb. The mercs use their cones (full auto) at max range vs single targets, which is terrible. Meanwhile the giant doombot will drop AoE rockets in the middle of packs that burn things to death. The thing that did keep me playing my mercs was the sound of constant gunfire. The mercs sound like the opening of Saving Private Ryan once the get going 🤣.

[khy]

Another thing to consider, that I just thought of : Damage types.

 

Specifically, if you're the kind of person who fights a lot of CoT then mercs will suffer badly. CoT spectres have a ridiculous 40% resistance to both Smashing and Lethal damage, which hurts Mercs badly as every single damaging attack that soldiers and spec-ops use is lethal or smashing. I don't know if there's any enemies that are heavily energy resistant off the top of my head, but I know that when I play my Robots I clear CoT stuff so much easier. (CoT spectres take 30% MORE damage from energy, making robots their natural enemy)

 

Thugs are especially bad because even their Boss Minion is pure smashing damage, while the others are lethal. Beasts, Mercs, Ninjas are mainly lethal/smashing with the bosses offering more variety with Boss damage types. Necromancers get a lot of versatility since the toxic damage from zombies is mixed with negative energy and smashing damage. And demons are all over the place thanks to each of their Tier 1 minions having different damage types.

[kelly Rocket]

One thing to consider: Bots have more long term potential, but their damage output really *sucks* until level 26 (Arguably 32 really). So if you intend to solo a lot, it's very slow going. At low levels the Mercs significantly outdamage the Bots. So Mercs have a smoother leveling curve. Bots just have a skyrocket in power at level 32.

[thorsmitersaw]

If you go Mercs it's almost mandatory to slot an Achilles Heel Proc for -20% RES into the Soldiers Power. All of the soldiers attacks can proc it.

Low effort to make all of the Merc Pets a bit more viable in the damage department.

 

You could also slot the Universal Damage Proc (Knockback to Knockdown) into the commando, so that he doesn't scatter all the mobs.

Many Merc attacks are cones and it's better to keep the Mobs tightly packed.

 

...how do you slot for procs? I don't remember this from the live game when I played? are these some newer kind of power enhancement? something to do with the crafting thing I also missed?

[scran]

Another thing to consider, mercs resist smash AND lethal, bots only resist smash. with the 35% res-all special ios you can get about 60% s/l res on mercs, where bots only get it on smash.

[SinergyX]

Another thing to consider, mercs resist smash AND lethal, bots only resist smash. with the 35% res-all special ios you can get about 60% s/l res on mercs, where bots only get it on smash.

35% I only know the AT one wich is 10%, the reinforment one of 10%, i'm missing 15%? :(

 

edit, sovereign is another 10%, forgot that one :P

[scran]

Another thing to consider, mercs resist smash AND lethal, bots only resist smash. with the 35% res-all special ios you can get about 60% s/l res on mercs, where bots only get it on smash.

35% I only know the AT one wich is 10%, the reinforment one of 10%, i'm missing 15%? :(

 

edit, sovereign is another 10%, forgot that one :P

 

Superior version gives more too.

[Dixa]

bots resist smash, lethal and psi - 24% of it to be exact.

two of the +resist auras do not grant psi

 

there is a lot of autohit psi damage in the late game.

 

when you have them all and fully upgraded, demons have 4 attacks that apply up to -20% resists each and stack with each other. under ideal circumstances nothing is going to outdamage demons, but good luck softcapping them.

[Tamorand]

If you go Mercs it's almost mandatory to slot an Achilles Heel Proc for -20% RES into the Soldiers Power. All of the soldiers attacks can proc it.

Low effort to make all of the Merc Pets a bit more viable in the damage department.

 

You could also slot the Universal Damage Proc (Knockback to Knockdown) into the commando, so that he doesn't scatter all the mobs.

Many Merc attacks are cones and it's better to keep the Mobs tightly packed.

 

Might be better to put the OF kb2kd on soldiers to let all their attacks have a chance to kd and make the medic grenade kd and put the sudden acceleration kb to kd on the commando.

 

OF Proc is "Unique"  There is also the Sudden Acceleration set that has the same proc but is not "Unique" - If you go Mercs/Storm you'll want the OF proc for Tornado.

[kelly Rocket]

If you go Mercs it's almost mandatory to slot an Achilles Heel Proc for -20% RES into the Soldiers Power. All of the soldiers attacks can proc it.

Low effort to make all of the Merc Pets a bit more viable in the damage department.

 

You could also slot the Universal Damage Proc (Knockback to Knockdown) into the commando, so that he doesn't scatter all the mobs.

Many Merc attacks are cones and it's better to keep the Mobs tightly packed.

 

Might be better to put the OF kb2kd on soldiers to let all their attacks have a chance to kd and make the medic grenade kd and put the sudden acceleration kb to kd on the commando.

 

OF Proc is "Unique"  There is also the Sudden Acceleration set that has the same proc but is not "Unique" - If you go Mercs/Storm you'll want the OF proc for Tornado.

Sudden Acceleration isn't the same... It converts all Knockbacks to Knockdowns, yes, but Overwhelming Force adds a chance to Knockdown to any damaging power. On a pet that means that *every* attack they have that does damage has a chance to knockdown.

 

So you basically want that on whichever pet tier is going to be throwing the highest volume of attacks, or hitting the highest volume of targets.

[Tamorand]

If you go Mercs it's almost mandatory to slot an Achilles Heel Proc for -20% RES into the Soldiers Power. All of the soldiers attacks can proc it.

Low effort to make all of the Merc Pets a bit more viable in the damage department.

 

You could also slot the Universal Damage Proc (Knockback to Knockdown) into the commando, so that he doesn't scatter all the mobs.

Many Merc attacks are cones and it's better to keep the Mobs tightly packed.

 

Might be better to put the OF kb2kd on soldiers to let all their attacks have a chance to kd and make the medic grenade kd and put the sudden acceleration kb to kd on the commando.

 

OF Proc is "Unique"  There is also the Sudden Acceleration set that has the same proc but is not "Unique" - If you go Mercs/Storm you'll want the OF proc for Tornado.

Sudden Acceleration isn't the same... It converts all Knockbacks to Knockdowns, yes, but Overwhelming Force adds a chance to Knockdown to any damaging power. On a pet that means that *every* attack they have that does damage has a chance to knockdown.

 

So you basically want that on whichever pet tier is going to be throwing the highest volume of attacks, or hitting the highest volume of targets.

 

I agree, but without the OF Proc on Tornado it makes it much less useful.  I suppose it will come down to do you want to use Tornado with or without KB.  I agree 100% that the OF Proc in Pets is infinitely more useful and thank you as I had no considered the sheer volume of attacks from the Soldiers being a form of control.

 

I"ll have to reconsider my stance on using OF in Tornado on a Merc / Storm

[Force Redux]

how do the others compare to bots?  constant clunking bit annoying

 

Necro is a generally quiet set, with smaller pets. Pair it with Dark, Time or Cold. It's my next favorite set after bots.

 

I want to like demons, but they are noisier than Bots. You could always play with the sound files to silence them, however.

[kelly Rocket]

If you go Mercs it's almost mandatory to slot an Achilles Heel Proc for -20% RES into the Soldiers Power. All of the soldiers attacks can proc it.

Low effort to make all of the Merc Pets a bit more viable in the damage department.

 

You could also slot the Universal Damage Proc (Knockback to Knockdown) into the commando, so that he doesn't scatter all the mobs.

Many Merc attacks are cones and it's better to keep the Mobs tightly packed.

 

Might be better to put the OF kb2kd on soldiers to let all their attacks have a chance to kd and make the medic grenade kd and put the sudden acceleration kb to kd on the commando.

 

OF Proc is "Unique"  There is also the Sudden Acceleration set that has the same proc but is not "Unique" - If you go Mercs/Storm you'll want the OF proc for Tornado.

Sudden Acceleration isn't the same... It converts all Knockbacks to Knockdowns, yes, but Overwhelming Force adds a chance to Knockdown to any damaging power. On a pet that means that *every* attack they have that does damage has a chance to knockdown.

 

So you basically want that on whichever pet tier is going to be throwing the highest volume of attacks, or hitting the highest volume of targets.

 

I agree, but without the OF Proc on Tornado it makes it much less useful.  I suppose it will come down to do you want to use Tornado with or without KB.  I agree 100% that the OF Proc in Pets is infinitely more useful and thank you as I had no considered the sheer volume of attacks from the Soldiers being a form of control.

 

I"ll have to reconsider my stance on using OF in Tornado on a Merc / Storm

No problem! I wasn't trying to knock your slotting, putting it in Tornado can make sense, just wanted to clarify that they're not the same, and there are good reasons to slot the Unique in the bottom tier pets for some sets. Particularly Ninjas.

[Williwaw]

I have yet to try it, but there's also the KB->KD proc in the Sudden Acceleration set that you could put in Tornado, saving the OF proc for your T1 pets.