-Recharge - how does it work with procs?

[blayzemaster]

Hi Guys, so I'm trying to figure out set bonuses and the like. I was wondering, if you have a -recharge bonus that runs out (like Hasten, or the Force Feedback proc), when they run out do the recharge times go back to what they would be without the proc? Or is it that the recharge time is just calculated when the event occurs?

 

This is all slightly based on someone saying you could get Perma-Dom at level 40, so if anyone also has a guide for that, it would be great!

[Redlynne]

Link: Force Feedback Proc IO

 

The way it works is that your recharge "quantity" gets temporarily increased.

The easiest way I have to think about (and explain this) is that rather than working from a division standpoint (which will drive you nuts in a hurry) it's a LOT easier to think about this in terms of addition.

 

Think of it like this ...

 

Totally unenhanced, you have a (base) 100% recharge rate and enchancements "add" onto that rate.

So if you add a +20% Recharge enhancement to something, you now have 120% recharge in that power.

It's very easy to convert that into an iterative addition system, where instead of adding +100 every second (or whatever time interval you care about, so long as it remains constant) you're instead adding +120 every second.  This then makes it possible to cross compare the Recharge procs versus the alternative of "permanent" Recharge enhancement options.

 

So if the Force Feedback proc is +100% Recharge for 5 seconds (followed by a 10 second proc effect suppression phase, meaning that even ideally you'll never get more than 4 procs per minute, ever) ... how long would an alternative Recharge amount need to be in effect to achieve the same outcome?

 

Well ... 100 * 5 = 500 ... for a single proc of the Force Feedback IO.

If you want to compare that against a +7.5% Recharge set bonus, you can do a very simple formula:

 

(100 * 5s) / 7.5 = 66.667s

 

This means that if you're able to proc the Force Feedback IO once every 66-67 seconds you'll be breaking even with the amount of advantage you'd be getting from a +7.5% set bonus over that same time span.

Proc more often than once every 66-67 seconds and you're ahead of the alternative.

Proc less often than once every 66-67 seconds and you you're behind the alternative.

 

(100 * 5s) / 7.5 = 66.667s

(100 * 5s) / 6.25 = 80s

(100 * 5s) / 5 = 100s

 

So if you're trying to weigh the relative merits of the Force Feedback proc against more "permanent" recharge set bonuses, simply ask yourself how often you expect to have that proc activate thanks to your attack chain (since you need to be attacking in order for it to be of any use).

 

The other benefit is that if you're already capped on +7.5% Recharge set bonuses, the Force Feedback proc will allow you to "pile on even more" Recharge without falling afoul of the Rule Of Five for set bonuses, so long as you put it into attacks that can proc it (more than once per minute).

 

After that, it's just napkin math and theory crafting.

[Bopper]

Link: Force Feedback Proc IO

 

The way it works is that your recharge "quantity" gets temporarily increased.

The easiest way I have to think about (and explain this) is that rather than working from a division standpoint (which will drive you nuts in a hurry) it's a LOT easier to think about this in terms of addition.

 

Think of it like this ...

 

Totally unenhanced, you have a (base) 100% recharge rate and enchancements "add" onto that rate.

So if you add a +20% Recharge enhancement to something, you now have 120% recharge in that power.

It's very easy to convert that into an iterative addition system, where instead of adding +100 every second (or whatever time interval you care about, so long as it remains constant) you're instead adding +120 every second.  This then makes it possible to cross compare the Recharge procs versus the alternative of "permanent" Recharge enhancement options.

 

So if the Force Feedback proc is +100% Recharge for 5 seconds (followed by a 10 second proc effect suppression phase, meaning that even ideally you'll never get more than 4 procs per minute, ever) ... how long would an alternative Recharge amount need to be in effect to achieve the same outcome?

 

Well ... 100 * 5 = 500 ... for a single proc of the Force Feedback IO.

If you want to compare that against a +7.5% Recharge set bonus, you can do a very simple formula:

 

(100 * 5s) / 7.5 = 66.667s

 

This means that if you're able to proc the Force Feedback IO once every 66-67 seconds you'll be breaking even with the amount of advantage you'd be getting from a +7.5% set bonus over that same time span.

Proc more often than once every 66-67 seconds and you're ahead of the alternative.

Proc less often than once every 66-67 seconds and you you're behind the alternative.

 

(100 * 5s) / 7.5 = 66.667s

(100 * 5s) / 6.25 = 80s

(100 * 5s) / 5 = 100s

 

So if you're trying to weigh the relative merits of the Force Feedback proc against more "permanent" recharge set bonuses, simply ask yourself how often you expect to have that proc activate thanks to your attack chain (since you need to be attacking in order for it to be of any use).

 

The other benefit is that if you're already capped on +7.5% Recharge set bonuses, the Force Feedback proc will allow you to "pile on even more" Recharge without falling afoul of the Rule Of Five for set bonuses, so long as you put it into attacks that can proc it (more than once per minute).

 

After that, it's just napkin math and theory crafting.

 

Do you have a link to info about the 10 second cooldown? I am trying to fully understand how the FF proc works if slotted in multiple AoE powers

[Adeon Hawkwood]

Do you have a link to info about the 10 second cooldown? I am trying to fully understand how the FF proc works if slotted in multiple AoE powers

The 10 second cooldown doesn't actually exist. It's a bit of "common knowledge" that was created by misinterpreting some early testing results that got propagated by the community.

 

Arcanaville has spoken!

http://web.archive.org/web/20120911134507/http:/boards.cityofheroes.com/showpost.php?p=3923625&postcount=18

 

The more important part is that you can't double stack it, or refresh it. if you get two procs it just refreshes the duration.

[Bopper]

Do you have a link to info about the 10 second cooldown? I am trying to fully understand how the FF proc works if slotted in multiple AoE powers

The 10 second cooldown doesn't actually exist. It's a bit of "common knowledge" that was created by misinterpreting some early testing results that got propagated by the community.

 

Arcanaville has spoken!

http://web.archive.org/web/20120911134507/http:/boards.cityofheroes.com/showpost.php?p=3923625&postcount=18

 

The more important part is that you can't double stack it, if you get two procs it just refreshes the duration.

 

Thank you, this is excellent information. I have to ask though, the old post seems to suggest that if it procs while up, it does not reset the timer, however you state it will. Can I get confirmation on the actual mechanic when there is proc stacking?

[Adeon Hawkwood]

Thank you, this is excellent information. I have to ask though, the old post seems to suggest that if it procs while up, it does not reset the timer, however you state it will. Can I get confirmation on the actual mechanic when there is proc stacking?

Ah, good point. I was going by the wiki (which says it does refresh) but I would take Arcanaville's explanation over the wiki in this case. So it probably doesn't refresh.

[Hopeling]

I was wondering, if you have a -recharge bonus that runs out (like Hasten, or the Force Feedback proc), when they run out do the recharge times go back to what they would be without the proc? Or is it that the recharge time is just calculated when the event occurs?

 

Neither, actually. Imagine that each power has a bar that fills up as it recharges. Recharge buffs make the bar fill more quickly, for as long as they're up. The bar only ever moves upward, it just moves up faster or slower if you have buffs or debuffs.

 

Unfortunately, the way the game displays recharge is weird, so the icons bounce all over the place when buffs/debuffs are applied or expire: the size of the icon is supposed to represent how soon it will be up, relative to its recharge before buffs - not how full the imaginary bar is. If you use a power with a 20s recharge, and at the 15s mark you get hit with a -300% recharge debuff, the game will show you a tiny icon because you won't be able to use the power for 20s, even though it's 3/4 recharged. This is also why, when you get hit with slows, your powers seem to sit at the smallest icon for a while before they start growing.

 

So Force Feedback helps all your powers come back faster, whether they were cast during the FF buff or not. The icons shrink when the buff expires, but the game isn't taking anything away from you; it's just updating its prediction of when the power will be available.