Electric Blast and End Drain

[Sinfinite]

Hello Homecoming folks! Apologies if this isn't the right place, but that being said....Electric blasts and End Drain.

 

Has there been any talk about making END drain a more viable game mechanic? I'm looking at you Blaster, Defender, and Corrupter's in particular with your ever so cool looking zappy zappy blasts and your ever so lackluster drain mechanic. To make matters worse, I commonly see posts talking about different power sets and pointing out that the damage isn't top notch AND the mechanic is really a no show. Very sad!

 

I know you can combine different attacks or power sets with it to drain mobs down but as I often read, it only takes a tick of endurance and the mob is now firing off their attacks again.

 

I know the devs are working on a lot, but it seems a shame to have such a cool looking/sounding power set with such a meh mechanic behind it.

 

Maybe wishful thinking, but some type Electric blast buff/mechanic update would be awesome!!!

[biostem]

I'd say make elec attacks have a minor dmg and recharge debuff.  Sure, end drain can be effective vs other players, but AFAIK, NPC enemies don't actually have endurance per se, (just powers on timers)...

Edited August 20, 2019 by biostem

[Heraclea]

I slot for endurance drain on my electric/electric blaster and it appears to work reasonably well.  Do wish that it had more of an effect on EB/AV/GM class enemies. 

[Communistpenguin]

End drain does actually work, just not that great. Mobs do require end, its just that their requirements are lower than ours, so you have to keep them very drained to get the best effect.  It is most noticeably useful when fighting boss mobs that have annoying powers.  End drain has helped my storm/elec defender take out more than one boss who otherwise wiped the floor with me. That being said, I would not complain if the end drain got boosted on most of the attacks.

[Alty]

You're looking at -Endurance but to effectively drain you also need -Recovery   There are only two powers in the Electrical blast set which have the  -recovery component:  Short Circuit -recovery and Thunderous Blast (nuke).  All 9 powers have -end though.   It is possible to drain end from NPCs but not fast enough to overtake their recovery rate.  By stacking -recovery powers, it is possible to completely drain NPCs so they become passive punching bags. 

 

The electrical set could be improved by adding one or two more -recovery powers. Maybe add it in to Zapp (snipe) or Voltaic Sentinel (pseudo pet) to make draining end more effective. 

Edited August 20, 2019 by Alty

[AkuTenshiiZero]

My Elec/Storm on Live was entirely built around end drain.  Short Circuit, Mu Mastery's Power Sink, and Deflated Ego -Recovery on Hurricane were the main staples of my set.  It worked with crippling effectiveness on just about anything up to EBs.  When Incarnate came around I was able to add Musculature Radial Paragon for even more end drain, on top of everything else useful it did for my build.

Edited August 20, 2019 by AkuTenshiiZero

[biostem]

49 minutes ago, Communistpenguin said:

End drain does actually work, just not that great. Mobs do require end, its just that their requirements are lower than ours, so you have to keep them very drained to get the best effect.  It is most noticeably useful when fighting boss mobs that have annoying powers.  End drain has helped my storm/elec defender take out more than one boss who otherwise wiped the floor with me. That being said, I would not complain if the end drain got boosted on most of the attacks.

That's the rub, though - someone using ice blast could, for instance, just stack their holds to completely lock down a boss.  End drain should be effective when weighed against things like dark's -tohit, sonic's -res, and so on.  I do like the lightning attacks - I just want to see their secondary effects made more useful...

[Bossk_Hogg]

The chance to return drained endurance should either be upped, or when you get returned endurance you should get a short lasting recharge buff. That would effectively make electric blast's secondary "do something" even when the mob still has end left. 

 

Defenders and corrupters need higher endurance drain values as befits their AT. Its weird they don't drain more with their blasts similar to how they debuff more.  

 

I'd also say that blasters, defenders and corrupters need Tesla Cage given the damage boost that Sentinels got on their Tesla Cage. 

[Trickshooter]

20 hours ago, Alty said:

You're looking at -Endurance but to effectively drain you also need -Recovery   There are only two powers in the Electrical blast set which have the  -recovery component:  Short Circuit -recovery and Thunderous Blast (nuke).  All 9 powers have -end though.   It is possible to drain end from NPCs but not fast enough to overtake their recovery rate.  By stacking -recovery powers, it is possible to completely drain NPCs so they become passive punching bags. 

 

The electrical set could be improved by adding one or two more -recovery powers. Maybe add it in to Zapp (snipe) or Voltaic Sentinel (pseudo pet) to make draining end more effective. 

All the Elec Blast attacks have -Recovery, but about half of them are only a chance to occur.

[Trickshooter]

20 hours ago, Bossk_Hogg said:

Defenders and corrupters need higher endurance drain values as befits their AT. Its weird they don't drain more with their blasts similar to how they debuff more.  

There are EndDrain modifiers, and Defenders and Corruptors mods are higher than Blasters, but strangely all of Elec Blast doesn't use them. The Elec Blast end drain effects all use the Ones tables, so the end drain values stay the same for all ATs.

[Trickshooter]

22 hours ago, biostem said:

I'd say make elec attacks have a minor dmg and recharge debuff.  Sure, end drain can be effective vs other players, but AFAIK, NPC enemies don't actually have endurance per se, (just powers on timers)...

Critters use endurance. I think it used to be said that they have discounted endurance costs, but I haven't verified that lately. I think it's more likely that they just attack more conservatively than players do.

 

What they don't have is toggles. They have clicks that pretend to be toggles, but they won't turn off if they run out of endurance like a normal toggle would.

[Coyote]

47 minutes ago, Trickshooter said:

Critters use endurance. I think it used to be said that they have discounted endurance costs, but I haven't verified that lately. I think it's more likely that they just attack more conservatively than players do.

 

What they don't have is toggles. They have clicks that pretend to be toggles, but they won't turn off if they run out of endurance like a normal toggle would.

 

I think it would be a great improvement if more mobs got defensive toggles, especially at high levels. Then, End Drain and Stuns/Holds would actually be useful, if you could get an effective 20 or 30% damage increase by shutting off the toggles of mobs. We'd have more use for End Drain, and Controllers would be less marginalized in steamrolling teams.

[Alty]

1 hour ago, Trickshooter said:

All the Elec Blast attacks have -Recovery, but about half of them are only a chance to occur.

🤔 Were there some changes or patch notes somewhere? Because I thought they were all only -End with 2 power exceptions which are stated to do - recovery.

 

If they all have a -recovery proc (% chance to X) perhaps it is easier to increase or change that chance or change it for specific powers 100% for X seconds.  

Edited August 21, 2019 by Alty

[Trickshooter]

Just now, Coyote said:

 

I think it would be a great improvement if more mobs got defensive toggles, especially at high levels. Then, End Drain and Stuns/Holds would actually be useful, if you could get an effective 20 or 30% damage increase by shutting off the toggles of mobs. We'd have more use for End Drain, and Controllers would be less marginalized in steamrolling teams.

Well, like I said Critter pseudo-toggles do try to mimic actual toggles and will suppress when mezzed. That's why using a Hold/Stun/Sleep on a Tsoo Sorcerer will end Hurricane, for example.

 

But actual toggles, unfortunately I don't think the AI was ever smart enough to use.

[Coyote]

Yes, that is a nice feature, but most mobs don't use toggles, which is why the ability to shut them off isn't a big deal. I want to make a higher % of a mob's resistances and defenses be based on toggle effects rather than on automatic powers.

Although, I wonder if the original reason for making them automatic might not have been due to processing and memory... it takes a lot less calculation to have an automatic power with 20% resist to Smashing damage, than to run a toggle and have regular End loss and recovery from every mob in a mission. Maybe only do it for the "tank"-type mobs?

[Trickshooter]

2 minutes ago, Alty said:

Were there some changes or patch notes somewhere? BEcause I thought they were only -End with the two exceptions which are stated to do -Recovery.

 

If they all have -recovery proc now (chance to X) perhaps it is easier to increase or change that chance to 100% for X seconds. 

To the best of my knowledge, it's been that way for a long time. I don't know if it was there at launch, but I can find references to it as far back as 2006.

[Trickshooter]

2 minutes ago, Coyote said:

Yes, that is a nice feature, but most mobs don't use toggles, which is why the ability to shut them off isn't a big deal. I want to make a higher % of a mob's resistances and defenses be based on toggle effects rather than on automatic powers.

Although, I wonder if the original reason for making them automatic might not have been due to processing and memory... it takes a lot less calculation to have an automatic power with 20% resist to Smashing damage, than to run a toggle and have regular End loss and recovery from every mob in a mission. Maybe only do it for the "tank"-type mobs?

I think part of the problem here might be that mobs don't know to activate powers until aggro'd. The intent might be to make controls more useful, but it would probably just improve builds that have some kind of ranged AoE nuke who could kill a spawn before they can activate their resistances.

[Galaradian]

My Elec Dominator shuts down most groups to pathetic levels. I take them out one by one using the elec patch and the aoe imob. Single targeting down one at a time.

[biostem]

21 minutes ago, Galaradian said:

My Elec Dominator shuts down most groups to pathetic levels. I take them out one by one using the elec patch and the aoe imob. Single targeting down one at a time.

Yes, but is it because of the end drain or because of the holds, sleeps, immobilizes, confuses, etc?

[biostem]

4 hours ago, Trickshooter said:

Critters use endurance. I think it used to be said that they have discounted endurance costs, but I haven't verified that lately. I think it's more likely that they just attack more conservatively than players do.

 

What they don't have is toggles. They have clicks that pretend to be toggles, but they won't turn off if they run out of endurance like a normal toggle would.

Thank you for the clarification!

[Galaradian]

I no longer use the patch on the groud after the blue bar is empty. Just the Imob...that keeps the bar empty and I only get shot at infrequently after I have them. Of course they don't get woken up until the imob fades and I reapply.

[Wintercat]

In my experience, if end drain were to have an effect, it would mean I defeated the enemies too slowly.

[MrAtomic]

The problem with increasing the end drain is it would make multiple elec users insanely powerful. Our SG on live had 4 elect users, we called it our Sapper Force,I forget the make-up, I was a blaster, I think one was a dom, is all I can remember. And we buzzsawed thru any encounters, including AVs, with no tank.  We may have slotted for some end-drain. Pretty sure 3-4 hits would pin their blue bars. And it would never refill enough to attack again. 

 

[Bossk_Hogg]

4 hours ago, MrAtomic said:

The problem with increasing the end drain is it would make multiple elec users insanely powerful. Our SG on live had 4 elect users, we called it our Sapper Force,I forget the make-up, I was a blaster, I think one was a dom, is all I can remember. And we buzzsawed thru any encounters, including AVs, with no tank.  We may have slotted for some end-drain. Pretty sure 3-4 hits would pin their blue bars. And it would never refill enough to attack again. 

 

How is that any different from 4 rad defenders giving huge - resist, - damage, - to hit and - defense? Or a couple of rad/psi/sonic/beam blasters just nuke stunning every spawn?

[MrAtomic]

18 hours ago, Bossk_Hogg said:

How is that any different from 4 rad defenders giving huge - resist, - damage, - to hit and - defense? Or a couple of rad/psi/sonic/beam blasters just nuke stunning every spawn?

I'd say it was comparable to the 4 rad defs, but giving more end drain would make it MORE powerful than that,  Can the four defenders completely shutdown an AV and then kill it, I've never tried it?  Re; x-blasters nuking every spawn, can they shut down the AV? 

But my point is, they're very effective, when combined. As effective as rad defenders in shutting down opponents. That's not underpowered.