When you think someone is playing their AT "wrong" ...

[Ananke]

9 minutes ago, PaxArcana said:

Sure, absolutely.  That would be a perfect example of a build that doesn't fit the goal of the team.  But you still don't need to tell the player "you're playing a Mastermind wrong".  Instead, you could tell them "A no-pet Mastermind isn't going to be able to keep up, and we can't carry anyone for this - everyone has to be able to pull twice their own weight.  Good luck finding a team that you fit with better."

Do you play healer classes in other games with the full intention of never healing anyone?

Edited August 27, 2019 by Ananke

[PaxArcana]

1 minute ago, Ananke said:

Do you play healers in other games with the full intention of never healing anyone?

That depends.  What else can that "healer" do ...?

 

Keep in mind: in Issues 1-5, when there were only Hero ATs ... some people decided to play Defenders, who were primarily about their Attacks, not their Buffs or Debuffs.  People insisted, loudly, that they were "doing it wrong".  But it turns out, they were doing it plenty RIGHT ... and the concept earned a moniker: "Offender".

Along comes Issue 6, and the Offender concept is enshrined forever, as the Corrupter villain Archetype.

 

So, what is "wrong" today ... may not be as wrong as you intuitively assume, and may become canonical tomorrow.

Edited August 27, 2019 by PaxArcana

[MunkiLord]

27 minutes ago, Ananke said:

Anyway, at the same time, if you go and play petless MM and try to join a badge run for The Really Hard Way (which requires us all to bust our asses) don't get surprised if you're removed and replaced once someone realizes that you're a memelord. As much as people coming in to tell you how to play your AT can be totally unwarranted and obnoxious, it's just as obnoxious to deliberately be sub par and expect people to be fine with it. Naturally though this only applies if someone actually knows they're playing dumb bullshit, but that's why I picked the petless MM example because there's basically no way that you wouldn't know better (seriously, you don't play a beastmastery hunter on WoW and refuse to use pets for example).

 

If you're going to play some bullshit for normal content it's whatever; the Incarnate system ensures that unless you're genuinely trolling that you'll probably be fine. Just don't expect everyone to be fine with a ridiculous concept like superspeed, sorc flight, teleport and superjump all on the same character once you try to do serious badge runs or if a group is very dedicated to speedrunning. Your performance in a team game never exists in a vacuum: you have to be respectful towards other people's time too.

For very specific goals like the mentioned badge, sure. Anything else, I don't care. Join, have fun, kick ass, get your ass kicked, it's all good. And no, other people's time is not a factor in any way whatsoever when making my power choices.

[Ananke]

34 minutes ago, PaxArcana said:

That depends.  What else can that "healer" do ...?

 

Keep in mind: in Issues 1-5, when there were only Hero ATs ... some people decided to play Defenders, who were primarily about their Attacks, not their Buffs or Debuffs.  People insisted, loudly, that they were "doing it wrong".  But it turns out, they were doing it plenty RIGHT ... and the concept earned a moniker: "Offender".

Along comes Issue 6, and the Offender concept is enshrined forever, as the Corrupter villain Archetype.

 

So, what is "wrong" today ... may not be as wrong as you intuitively assume, and may become canonical tomorrow.

They can do nothing else but 1/10th of damage a DPS class could do. I'm mostly trying to determine where you are on the scale in terms of what you consider griefing. FFXIV has this same kind of mentality of "play however you want" and unsurprisingly it can be very toxic: they'll defend peoples right to play thaumaturge in raid content to the death, by principle, even if it means that they spoil the enjoyment of a dozen other people.

 

The aggressive positivity of it is directly detrimental to other people's experience. In a more general way of explaining, it's like if there was a 25man raid group and the level cap was 100 and a bunch of  people in the group were defending one person's right to use sub level 30 abilities and gear exclusively, in levelcap content. So let's say, to complete the encounter, 500k dps from everyone but the healers and tanks is required. That one person is pulling, say 20k. They can't complete the encounter because of it and a huge spat ensues. (If this seems awfully specific, that's because I had pretty much this same argument with someone in WoW a few years ago regarding mythic raid progression.)

 

Is it acceptable for one person to play the way they want if it has a significant negative impact on others? To me, it's not just a matter of telling someone they're bad at the game or whatever. If someone is deliberately making the choice to play something god awful because their enjoyment of the build is more important than other people's enjoyment of their gaming experience, they're flat out griefing. "That person is playing their AT wrong" doesn't occur to me there so much as "that person is trolling a bunch of other people and thinks it's acceptable".

Edited August 27, 2019 by Ananke

[Yomo Kimyata]

17 hours ago, Ananke said:

I'm really glad that my petless MM is valid.

I really shouldn't say this, but this is by far my favorite kind of MM.  I don't play MM myself, but I'd much rather run missions with a petless buffer/debuffer than have a bunch of noisy robots/ninjas/demons getting in my way.

[Yomo Kimyata]

2 minutes ago, Ananke said:

So let's say, to complete the encounter, 500k dps from everyone but the healers and tanks is required. That one person is pulling, say 20k. They can't complete the encounter because of it and a huge spat ensues. (If this seems awfully specific, that's because I had pretty much this same argument with someone in WoW a few years ago regarding mythic raid progression.)

 

Is it acceptable for one person to play the way they want if it has a significant negative impact on others? To me, it's not just a matter of telling someone they're bad at the game or whatever. If someone is deliberately making the choice to be bad, they're flat out griefing.

I think that except for a very small number of instances, this is completely not applicable to CoX.  If you are running a Master of ... TF, sure, I understand.  But this game is easy enough that you can probably have half your team made up of Vicious Rikti Monkeys and still accomplish your goals of completion.

[Vanden]

I don't think you guys understand how badly some people can play. For example, I once teamed with this Blaster that wasn't actually activating his attacks, but saying things like "I use the Fire Ball ability!" in Team chat. When he faceplanted, he just said "Sorry guys, I don't play with killer DMs," and quit. And the other day we had an Empathy Defender that wasn't healing anyone no matter what, and spent the whole mission destabilizing the government of Georgia. What other way to describe these playstyles is there besides "wrong?"

[Ananke]

17 minutes ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

I really shouldn't say this, but this is by far my favorite kind of MM.  I don't play MM myself, but I'd much rather run missions with a petless buffer/debuffer than have a bunch of noisy robots/ninjas/demons getting in my way.

I have one for the hell of it (demon/pain dom) and I'm messing around in Pines as we speak to see if I can make it work in any way (only demon abilities I can take are corruption, lash, crack whip) so I have a lot of room for pool powers. I'm finnicking around with field medic + power boost + heals more specifically even though healing is generally sub par in this game just to see if it actually can work. We'll see I guess. I disclaimer my build though.

 

I feel like there's so much regen that I won't even need to heal, so I'd just sit there twiddling my thumbs...

Edited August 27, 2019 by Ananke

[MunkiLord]

5 minutes ago, Vanden said:

I don't think you guys understand how badly some people can play. For example, I once teamed with this Blaster that wasn't actually activating his attacks, but saying things like "I use the Fire Ball ability!" in Team chat. When he faceplanted, he just said "Sorry guys, I don't play with killer DMs," and quit. And the other day we had an Empathy Defender that wasn't healing anyone no matter what, and spent the whole mission destabilizing the government of Georgia. What other way to describe these playstyles is there besides "wrong?"

That Blaster would have cracked me up. I'm actually generally all for stupid crap like that. 

[THEDarkTyger]

On 8/25/2019 at 8:23 PM, PaxArcana said:

... don't.

Seriously, please just don't.

 

There is no One True Way, for good or ill, to play any particular archetype.  Defenders can focus on their attack powers.  Controllers can focus on their buffs and debuffs.  Masterminds can go petless.  This is all allowed ... and it absolutely dismays me that there are any people left in our community that don't understand that.  (I've just been having a back-and-forth about supposedly "playing Masterminds wrong" over in the Suggestions thread, which is what prompted this post.)

 

As long as you're not griefing other players .... do what you like.  Have fun.  People going against type, excuse me, against the assumptions of their archetype, has even inspired the creation of new archetypes.  Defenders who went for Attacks first, and buffs/debuffs last - known back int eh day as Offenders - are why we have Corrupters.  Seriously, that's where the inspiration for Corruptors came from.  They aren't "blasters who can (de)buff", they are officially-canonized Offenders.

 

So when you find yourself thinking "s/he is doing it wrong" ... stop.  Ask yourself, not "isn't that wrong", but instead, "why are they playing that way?"  Heck, maybe ask them why they've chosen to play like that.  Who knows, maybe you'll decide the idea is worth checking out for yourself .... and maybe you'll even decide "HOLY CARP, THIS IS HELLA FUN!"

 

But whatever you do, don't tell anyone they're playing wrong, just because they aren't playing the way you think they're supposed to.  Because if you do ... then the only one who will be wrong, is you.

 

...

 

Thank you for listening to my TED talk.  😄 

I agree....to an extent. If you've severely gimped your character on purpose and you're joining task forces and trials, it's no longer just your business. You become a liability to other players. But if you're soloing or with a team of friends who don't mind it? Knock yourself out.

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

1 hour ago, Ananke said:

Do you play healer classes in other games with the full intention of never healing anyone?

Funny thing some years ago in dungeons and dragons online aka DDO there came about a movement by players of clerics called BYOH or bring your own heals. This came about after they grew tired of being expected to act liek baby sitters for full Rtard DPS builds on barbarians using the frenzied berserker ability and vicious weapons which hurt the wielder in as part of the price for doing extra damage.

 

Meta gamers would go on and on about how it was the clerics job to heal, and DPS was the job of everyone else, Keep in mind DDO is an action rpg more like diablo in a 3d format so really everyone plays it to take part in that active combat.

 

Its also important to note taht said clerics could solo the same content 5 Rtard barbs could not because they would all die endless while the cleric could self heal, still hit plenty hard with good weapons, wearing heavy armor, and had tons of offensive spells. Especially against undead content no one is a better killer then the cleric and paladin. So basically clerics, bards, really anyone who could self heal started to avoid those who could not, and would still heal each other in a pinch, but if someone started acting like their red bar was someone elses problem they found themselves with no one watching their backs.

 

It took a few years but finally everyone learned their survival was first and foremost their #1 priority not any other players. Sure we will heal each other if needed, but to expect someone to basically sit back and devote themselves to a pure support role is basically old archaic trinity thinking and the reason why in every MMO ever the metrics have always shown very few play support or tank roles over all. People do not play these games to not be active in the combat part of it by and large.

 

Its important to note we dont have healer classes in CoH even empaths are only part healer, and should not be expected to forgo the fun of combat entirely because someone wants to run content so difficult it makes the game no fun for one of the players who becomes relegated to baby sitting others, or as we say in DDO walking tampon dispensers for those who seem to always be bleeding. Oh how barbarians hated to hear hey barbie doll did you bring your tampons because Im fresh out!

 

We also say you cant heal stupid. And in CoH if your build NEEDS support, its not the support AT players problem, its yours. tone down your dif if your build cant take the challenge.

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

9 minutes ago, THEDarkTyger said:

I agree....to an extent. If you've severely gimped your character on purpose and you're joining task forces and trials, it's no longer just your business. You become a liability to other players. But if you're soloing or with a team of friends who don't mind it? Knock yourself out.

One could argue many power set combos are inherently gimped. For example one of the reasons dark melee has always been held up so high and is so common, is between its to hit debuff basically acting as a layer of defense, it also has a decent self heal that is basically a must have partner for any 2ndary set that does not include good self healing like say one of my old faves SR. I love SR but we all know that without reliable healing it really cant perform very well in a lot of content at higher difs.

 

Also frankly when you reacha  certain level of player ability and build ability that makes just about every toon end up an unstoppable AV solo killer at the least, one could see just about anyone not at that thresh hold as a liability. And while that is not a nice way to see them its also not wrong to see them as such. However Id never deny anyone a spot on my TF teams for such reasons, only being a negativity spewing icehole will earn that. Oh and arguing with any orders I do happen to give. Berk aint in the buisiness to be second guessed nor challenged by infants.

[PaxArcana]

36 minutes ago, Ananke said:

I'm mostly trying to determine where you are on the scale in terms of what you consider griefing.

Acting intentionally to cause others displeasure and/or actively undermine their ability to play the game.

 

37 minutes ago, Ananke said:

FFXIV

From what I understand, FF14 is a "TEAM UP OR GTFO" sort of MMO.  That would be entirely different, because you would truly be relying on other players to be as close to the A-Game as possible.

 

In CoX ... there's almost nothing you can't do alone, let alone on a team that is now missing "that one guy".

 

39 minutes ago, Ananke said:

In a more general way of explaining, it's like if there was a 25man raid group and the level cap was 100 and a bunch of  people in the group were defending one person's right to use sub level 30 abilities and gear exclusively, in levelcap content.

You, too, seem to have completely missed the point.

 

It is not, "Anything goes and don't dare make anyone feel bad".  It is not "let the level 10 guy onto your Incarnate trial or you're a meanie".

 

It is only this: do not tell someone else they are playing their Archetype wrong, because they chose different powers than you would have, nor because they chose to emphasize one powerset over another.

 

41 minutes ago, Ananke said:

Is it acceptable for one person to play the way they want if it has a significant negative impact on others?

See, here's the thing.

"Don't tell them they are playing their archetype wrong" is not at all the same as "team up with them no matter what".

 

If they've chosen to play something that just can't carry it's own weight in the content you want to play, just tell them that; say something like: "Hey, I'm sorry, but as fun as it might be to play for you, that build just isn't up to taking on this content at this notoriety level.  Unless you have an alternate build you can switch to, that can do this content, I'm going to need to get someone else to fill that space on the team."

 

Is that really, truly so much to ask?

44 minutes ago, Ananke said:

So let's say, to complete the encounter, 500k dps from everyone but the healers and tanks is required.

City of Heroes doesn't work that way, in all but a vanishingly few, very specific edge cases.  (I think someone mentioned "Master of ___ TF" runs.)

 

DPS is not king in CoX.

 

This is not WoW; this is not FFXIV.  Stop thinking like it is.

 

And for those edge cases ... again, "Hey, I'm sorry, but as fun as it might be to play for you, that build just isn't up to taking on this content at this notoriety level.  Unless you have an alternate build you can switch to, that can do this content, I'm going to need to get someone else to fill that space on the team."

 

41 minutes ago, Vanden said:

I don't think you guys understand how badly some people can play. For example, I once teamed with this Blaster that wasn't actually activating his attacks, but saying things like "I use the Fire Ball ability!" in Team chat. When he faceplanted, he just said "Sorry guys, I don't play with killer DMs," and quit.

That is not at all what I'm talking about, either.  That was someone intentionally trolling/griefing your team, "for the lulz".  They weren't playing Blaster wrong ... they weren't even playing CoX, at all.  Just having a laugh, at your expense.

 

10 minutes ago, THEDarkTyger said:

If you've severely gimped your character on purpose and you're joining task forces and trials, it's no longer just your business.

And, again: note that "don't tell someone you're playing your archetype wrong" doesn't mean you, personally, have to team up with them.  "Hey man, the way you've put your character together just doesn't work with how I play.  Have fun, and good luck finding a team your build can work on" ... is a perfectly valid and acceptable reaction in that sort of case.

 

But ... you know, sometimes people have thought "that person has gimepd themselves on purpose", and it turns out, no they weren't gimped at all.  Again ... Offenders.  And also, Blappers.  When those concepts were new, a whole lot of people thought exactly that: "gimped" and/or "playing it wrong".

 

4 minutes ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

Funny thing some years ago in dungeons and dragons online aka DDO

And I can add to this:

 

I played DDO when it was new.  I love the Eberron setting in Tabletop D&D, and was hella excited to be able to play a Warforged.

 

Clerics far and wide absolutely refused to heal Warforged ... because that healing was only half effective.  Sorcerors and Wizards could cast "Repair" spells that counted as full-effect healing for Warforged ... but none of them ever wanted to take those spells.  So, players like me were forced to dip into one or the other of those classes, in order to be able to buy and use Wands of Repair Light Damage, etc.

So, even before BYOH, there were "healers" who in fact refused to Heal at least SOME players no matter how they behaved, solely because of their choice of Race.  and I mean, they wouldn't even throw one of the lowest-level heals at a Warforged to save the guy's life so he could drink half a dozen of his own potions (or wave that Wand of Repair Damage at his own face).

[Yomo Kimyata]

To be honest, the most interesting teams I've been on were the most unconventional.  But then again, I don't have a power complex about how things are supposed to be.  When I form teams, I accept all comers.  If someone is not "pulling their weight", what do I care?  Unless they are getting in my way or griefing me or my teammates.  Again, half my team could be Rikti Monkeys and we would still steamroll.

 

When teaming, I play by two rules.  1.  Have fun, and 2. Help your teammates have fun.  Why?  Because I'm Lawful Good, yo.  I really don't see the point in getting my nose bent if there is a team wipe or two, because generally that leads to a situation where I realize that, by God, I CAN tank as a controller!

 

I don't think I've ever kicked anyone from my team, but I've definitely left teams that didn't feel good.  And teamed with some of those same people again later and things were fine.  It's just pixels.

[THEDarkTyger]

10 minutes ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

One could argue many power set combos are inherently gimped. For example one of the reasons dark melee has always been held up so high and is so common, is between its to hit debuff basically acting as a layer of defense, it also has a decent self heal that is basically a must have partner for any 2ndary set that does not include good self healing like say one of my old faves SR. I love SR but we all know that without reliable healing it really cant perform very well in a lot of content at higher difs.

 

Also frankly when you reacha  certain level of player ability and build ability that makes just about every toon end up an unstoppable AV solo killer at the least, one could see just about anyone not at that thresh hold as a liability. And while that is not a nice way to see them its also not wrong to see them as such. However Id never deny anyone a spot on my TF teams for such reasons, only being a negativity spewing icehole will earn that. Oh and arguing with any orders I do happen to give. Berk aint in the buisiness to be second guessed nor challenged by infants.

You're comparing apples to oranges here and you damn well know it...

[Chuckers]

20 minutes ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

... or as we say in DDO walking tampon dispensers for those who seem to always be bleeding. 

Well.. isn't THAT a.. umm... colorful phrase.. (I love it!)

[Twisted Toon]

18 minutes ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

 by God, I CAN tank as a controller!

Illusion/FF can tank very well, with or without PA. KB and a nice corner are all you need.

[DR_Mechano]

See here's the thing, people seem to be thinking that people like me would be the sort that says "Defenders should only buff/heal and not attack..." nah. I want you out there dealing damage, slap down those buffs/debuffs and join in the damage, build a BALANCED defender. If you want to sacrifice buffs for offense...like I said, Rad is RIGHT THERE. All you have to take are four power picks (well five if you include the forced one that some ATs get) Radiation Infection, Accelerate Metabolism, Enervating Field and Lingering Radiation (with Radiant Aura being forced for some). These powers help you survive, help you deal more damage but are also useful in a team setting.

 

Heck I'm sure there are other support powersets that have just as low power choice picks. Or if you want to be a Defender who also deals damage...why not play a Corruptor...that is LITERALLY their thing.

 

For most content...lets be honest...nobody is really going to remotely look at what you're doing, as long as the team is steamrolling, nobody cares. However if people do have these 'weird' builds, join one of the more difficult to achieve TF badge runs but refuse to mention from the off only for someone to notice halfway through the first mission that the MM isn't summoning pets because 'lol Petless MM but I haz buffs/debuffs guiz!' means they've just wasted 7 other peoples time since we now need to start ALL over again and recruit another 8th person.

 

If you're going to do freaking meme builds do NOT waste peoples time by trying to keep them a secret if they're trying something difficult. You will get found out and everyone will be even MORE pissed off with you because you've wasted their time and now causing even more time to be wasted.

Edited August 27, 2019 by DR_Mechano

[MunkiLord]

25 minutes ago, DR_Mechano said:

See here's the thing, people seem to be thinking that people like me would be the sort that says "Defenders should only buff/heal and not attack..." nah. I want you out there dealing damage, slap down those buffs/debuffs and join in the damage, build a BALANCED defender. If you want to sacrifice buffs for offense...like I said, Rad is RIGHT THERE. All you have to take are four power picks (well five if you include the forced one that some ATs get) Radiation Infection, Accelerate Metabolism, Enervating Field and Lingering Radiation (with Radiant Aura being forced for some). These powers help you survive, help you deal more damage but are also useful in a team setting.

 

Heck I'm sure there are other support powersets that have just as low power choice picks. Or if you want to be a Defender who also deals damage...why not play a Corruptor...that is LITERALLY their thing.

 

For most content...lets be honest...nobody is really going to remotely look at what you're doing, as long as the team is steamrolling, nobody cares. However if people do have these 'weird' builds, join one of the more difficult to achieve TF badge runs but refuse to mention from the off only for someone to notice halfway through the first mission that the MM isn't summoning pets because 'lol Petless MM but I haz buffs/debuffs guiz!' means they've just wasted 7 other peoples time since we now need to start ALL over again and recruit another 8th person.

 

If you're going to do freaking meme builds do NOT waste peoples time by trying to keep them a secret if they're trying something difficult. You will get found out and everyone will be even MORE pissed off with you because you've wasted their time and now causing even more time to be wasted.

I take the opposite approach. I think team "leaders" worrying about people's powersets and power choices are the one's wasting people's time. This includes Master TF runs. To the point that if I find out that is what the leader is like after the TF starts, I quit the team right then and there. I say this as someone that never has, and likely never will, make one of those weird builds. 

[DR_Mechano]

26 minutes ago, MunkiLord said:

I take the opposite approach. I think team "leaders" worrying about people's powersets and power choices are the one's wasting people's time. This includes Master TF runs. To the point that if I find out that is what the leader is like after the TF starts, I quit the team right then and there. I say this as someone that never has, and likely never will, make one of those weird builds. 

Good for you on wasting peoples time, good job, have a clap. Now they get to spend more time recruiting and probably about 10 minutes of actual mission running just because you signed up to a Master TF run and the leader had a plan which involved picking ATs, they're a team LEADER, they're the one recruiting, it probably would have been obvious from the word go that was going to be style of team they were forming and you still joined just so you could disagree with the team leader and storm off in a huff. Nicely done.

 

Lets face it, if a team leader is worrying about ATs and Powersets, he's going to be advertising for specific ones from the word go, it isn't hard to avoid those sorts of teams.

 

It's less I care about peoples powerset choices (seriously I usually go on a first come, first served basis, I mean I might get more picky towards the end once the team is filling up and be like 'looking for tanky melee with taunt' Brute, Scrapper, Tanker, whatever, hell I'll even take a stalker with power pool taunts), whatever they want to run they can. I care when they're playing some meme build and they hide it knowingly gimping a team, if you're a petless MM, just tell me from the off, being honest I'd more than likely ask the rest of the team first if they want you along on the run, if they think they can carry your gimpy weird build through it, then fine, we'll try our damnedest to make this work.

 

I will point out this is ONLY for content like the Master of badges and stating specifically that is what the run is for. Regular content I could not care less what your build is, we're steamrolling mobs anyway, hell that one level 50 blaster can probably solo this regular ITF so what does it matter.

Edited August 27, 2019 by DR_Mechano

[PaxArcana]

1 hour ago, DR_Mechano said:

build a BALANCED defender.

How about ... no.

 

I'll build and play the Defender I want, because I will be the one playing him/her/it.  You don't have to team with me ... just don't break Wheaton's Law when you decline.  Is that so much to ask of you?  🙂

[MunkiLord]

23 minutes ago, DR_Mechano said:

Good for you on wasting peoples time, good job, have a clap. Now they get to spend more time recruiting and probably about 10 minutes of actual mission running just because you signed up to a Master TF run and the leader had a plan which involved picking ATs, they're a team LEADER, they're the one recruiting, it probably would have been obvious from the word go that was going to be style of team they were forming and you still joined just so you could disagree with the team leader and storm off in a huff. Nicely done.

 

Lets face it, if a team leader is worrying about ATs and Powersets, he's going to be advertising for specific ones from the word go, it isn't hard to avoid those sorts of teams.

 

It's less I care about peoples powerset choices (seriously I usually go on a first come, first served basis, I mean I might get more picky towards the end once the team is filling up and be like 'looking for tanky melee with taunt' Brute, Scrapper, Tanker, whatever, hell I'll even take a stalker with power pool taunts), whatever they want to run they can. I care when they're playing some meme build and they hide it knowingly gimping a team, if you're a petless MM, just tell me from the off, being honest I'd more than likely ask the rest of the team first if they want you along on the run, if they think they can carry your gimpy weird build through it, then fine, we'll try our damnedest to make this work.

 

I will point out this is ONLY for content like the Master of badges and stating specifically that is what the run is for. Regular content I could not care less what your build is, we're steamrolling mobs anyway, hell that one level 50 blaster can probably solo this regular ITF so what does it matter.

I specified after the fact. If the person is advertising such a thing I don't join in the first place(which is the majority of the time). But I throw "leaders" like that into the same group as the ones that insist on everyone hanging back while the tank herds, or getting all pissy if things aren't going just right. As far as I'm concerned those people are all the same, control freaks. And once I find out what they are, I'm out. If the team has to reform because I quit, so be it. If the "leader" actually did a good job forming the team then they'd be just fine without me.

Edited August 27, 2019 by MunkiLord

[PaxArcana]

1 hour ago, DR_Mechano said:

However if people do have these 'weird' builds, join one of the more difficult to achieve TF badge runs but refuse to mention from the off only for someone to notice halfway through the first mission that the MM isn't summoning pets because 'lol Petless MM but I haz buffs/debuffs guiz!' means they've just wasted 7 other peoples time since we now need to start ALL over again and recruit another 8th person.

 

Dude ... if you don't even notice until halfway through the TF, then why the hell would you even care, at that point?  Obviously, you must have been sufficiently steamroller-ing the TF that they aren't holding you back, yeah?  So why would it suddenly matter??

[DR_Mechano]

6 minutes ago, PaxArcana said:

How about ... no.

 

I'll build and play the Defender I want, because I will be the one playing him/her/it.  You don't have to team with me ... just don't break Wheaton's Law when you decline.  Is that so much to ask of you?  🙂

Here's the thing, unless I am in the same zone as you, I can't see your powerset choices and would YOU do the common courtesy of letting me know you're playing some strange 'healing only' Empath? No you probably won't...most of the time people don't, they just assume it's all going to be sunshine and roses and then throw a hissy fit when questioned. THIS WORKS BOTH WAYS, stop pretending that people don't do this, that people don't join teams with these awful meme builds and then get upset when the team leader wonders why they're even bringing you along when they could have picked someone else with a more balanced approach who would help out the team more.

 

Like I said I honestly couldn't give a rats ass during regular content, I DON'T CARE what your build is, 9/10 we're steam rolling stuff anyway because 1 incarnated level 50 whateverthehellitis can solo most content. Hell they can often times solo most Master Of content if they're really full built. Also you're misquoting me, I said HALF WAY THROUGH THE FIRST MISSION, a Petless MM is incredibly hard to hide, the weird 'took no support powers' type builds are much harder to notice and if we have made it halfway through the taskforce and I haven't noticed...eh sure we'll keep going at that point but I've seen people kicked from Taskforces for a lot less to be honest.

 

As for Munkilord, I spent my time away from this game in WoW and Guild Wars 2, I'm use to being a tad more picky in forming teams for the tougher content, if you don't like that, so what? Its tough, you don't have to team with me or like what I'm doing, you can make your own taskforce with blackjack and hookers. Like I said, I'm going to make damn sure that its obvious from the off that's what I'm doing.

[MunkiLord]

1 minute ago, DR_Mechano said:

Here's the thing, unless I am in the same zone as you, I can't see your powerset choices and would YOU do the common courtesy of letting me know you're playing some strange 'healing only' Empath? No you probably won't...most of the time people don't, they just assume it's all going to be sunshine and roses and then throw a hissy fit when questioned. THIS WORKS BOTH WAYS, stop pretending that people don't do this, that people don't join teams with these awful meme builds and then get upset when the team leader wonders why they're even bringing you along when they could have picked someone else with a more balanced approach who would help out the team more.

 

Like I said I honestly couldn't give a rats ass during regular content, I DON'T CARE what your build is, 9/10 we're steam rolling stuff anyway because 1 incarnated level 50 whateverthehellitis can solo most content. Hell they can often times solo most Master Of content if they're really full built. Also you're misquoting me, I said HALF WAY THROUGH THE FIRST MISSION, a Petless MM is incredibly hard to hide, the weird 'took no support powers' type builds are much harder to notice and if we have made it halfway through the taskforce and I haven't noticed...eh sure we'll keep going at that point but I've seen people kicked from Taskforces for a lot less to be honest.

 

As for Munkilord, I spent my time away from this game in WoW and Guild Wars 2, I'm use to being a tad more picky in forming teams for the tougher content, if you don't like that, so what? Its tough, you don't have to team with me or like what I'm doing, you can make your own taskforce with blackjack and hookers. Like I said, I'm going to make damn sure that its obvious from the off that's what I'm doing.

When it's obvious, I just go about whatever it was I was already doing, we're on the same page. And if the leader reveals they are the control freak after the fact, I just leave. Don't make a big show about it or argue or have any parting words, just leave and let them do their thing. 

 

And forget the blackjack! This reminds me that I need to stop being lazy and find my old forum avatar.