Time to allow ally shield on self?

[Crysta Clear]

I have a Beam Rifle / Forcefield Corruptor who has very easily softcapped her defenses without any of the expensive sets, and aside from shielding whichever party members are patient enough to stick around instead of blitzing off on the MMO Rush Mentality Drug(tm), she feels like a DPS archetype to play.

 

I treat Dispersion Field much the same way as I treat Maneuvers -- as a self-toggle, but if anyone wants to hang out in the radius they are of course more than welcome to.

 

Between Dispersion Field, Weave, Maneuvers, Hover and Combat Jumping, I have 18.6% all defense with no enhancements.

Adding Lv. 30 plain IO's bumps this up to 28.8%, before Enhancement Diversification starts to kick in.

If you add just two individual set IO pieces, namely, the +3% defense globals from the resist sets Steadfast Protection and Gladiator's Armour, that rises to 34.8%, only 10.2% shy of softcap, which is well within the range of a purple insp.

This is good and okay. This is not softcapping. Softcaps are the realm of specialized sets or high-level play. Simply adding the ability to cast Deflection/Insulation Shield on yourself would make Forcefield an effortless softcap on par with Super Reflexes, and this is not good or okay, unless you also plan on justifying, somehow, Super Reflexes buffing your allies' defense.

 

/Time is an outlier, and Farsight might be too good. In short... games need to have difficulty and challenge. If you want an easy game, do easier content. Don't ask for everything to be made easier just to accommodate you.

 

Lastly... pool powers are there to be taken by everyone. Every set should be balanced with the existence of pool powers in mind. And if you're not using your pools for defense, then there must be some other thing you're choosing to use those selections for besides shoring up your own defenses -- which is your choice and does not mean that things need to be made easier so that you don't have to make meaningful choices.

Edited September 12, 2019 by Crysta Clear

[PaxArcana]

44 minutes ago, Crysta Clear said:

I have a Beam Rifle / Forcefield Corruptor who has very easily softcapped her defenses without any of the expensive sets, and aside from shielding whichever party members are patient enough to stick around instead of blitzing off on the MMO Rush Mentality Drug(tm), she feels like a DPS archetype to play.

Let me guess ... level 50?  Incarnate, perhaps?

 

How about the other 4/5 of the game?

[swordchucks]

I'd like to see not only this but all of the "only usable on others" heals allowed to work on the user.

 

The only group-affecting buff I'd be wary of allowing the caster to use is Speed Boost, since that make an already popular set even more popular.

[Crysta Clear]

Currently 44 and felt good to play throughout the whole thing! I'm sorry that you have trouble with the game's content unless you're using an overtuned outlier among powersets, Pax, but that doesn't mean that those of us who enjoy the game's difficulty should have it lowered just to accommodate you. Maybe try playing Time if you don't like Forcefields' smaller self-buff ability?

[PaxArcana]

13 minutes ago, Crysta Clear said:

I'm sorry that you have trouble with the game's content unless you're using an overtuned outlier among powersets, Pax,

(a) Straw man;

 

(b) assumes facts not yet in evidence;

 

(c) borderline ad hominem

My main on Live was a Robotics/Forcefield Mastermind - and he was the only character I got to 50 (though one or two others broke into the mid-40s shortly before I left the game).  I've recreated him on Homecoming.

...

My support for the original idea, is simply this:  It makes absolutely no sense that my FF characters can, for example, give someone else 30% or more +Defense with just three powers from a single powerset ... but can't give even HALF of that to themselves.

[Crysta Clear]

That's nice. I'm not actually here to join a debate team. Just here to weigh in my two cents about not making a game I enjoy any easier than it already is. Softcapping without sets is kind of the 'thing' of specialized defense sets like Super Reflexes. Wanting that for support sets is, in my opinion, wanting far too much in a powerset that isn't meant to do that.

 

Sometimes things need to not make sense in-world, because the thing that makes sense from an in-world perspective, does not make sense from a balance perspective. If you want to softcap without sets, you can do so with Personal Forcefield. Not like you do much attacking yourself as a mastermind anyway -- that's what the robots are for.

 

What this proposal is really asking for, is to please be given +18% all defense for free, without having to make a choice of that over other options, or anything else, in a set that is not about buffing yourself, but about buffing your allies.

 

tl;dr: Please do not buff my character and ruin the game's difficulty, just so other people don't have to make meaningful character build choices anymore.

Edited September 12, 2019 by Crysta Clear

[WindDemon21]

I think more tweaks to the set should be made if you feel that weak without those buffs. Personally the biggest main one this concerns is cold cause you're left there with no shields and only a minimal defense yourself. For cold what they should have always done was make frost work a pbaoe buff that's easily perm-able like 4 minute rech 2 minute duration, and should ALWAYS even in it's current form have had the initial heal like all dull pain type powers have. Benumb is also on far too long of a base rech.

 

Thermal gets the pbaoe heal which is usually pretty good enough, but cold should definitely have frostwork a pbaoe buff that also does the initial heal + max hp.

[Jeuraud]

1 hour ago, Crysta Clear said:

Softcapping without sets is kind of the 'thing' of specialized defense sets like Super Reflexes. Wanting that for support sets is, in my opinion, wanting far too much in a powerset that isn't meant to do that.

FF is a Specialized Defense Set, but it does not deserve the same ease to the def cap as Super Reflexes... for the user... just because it's a Support set?

 

[Crysta Clear]

That's exactly right, Jeuraud. It's a specialized support set that's tuned toward giving your teammates defense. That does not equal giving yourself defense. Besides -- it does have a free softcap for zero effort. It just doesn't also let you attack enemies while it's active. If you want to softcap while dealing damage, that's the realm of high-level builds with IO sets, or powersets that specialize in buffing your own defense.

 

Why should Forcefields be equal to Super Reflexes in self-defense but also have defense buffs for your allies?

[PaxArcana]

52 minutes ago, Crysta Clear said:

teammates

... you are not, and should never be, required to team up with anyone in CoX.

 

53 minutes ago, Crysta Clear said:

Why should Forcefields be equal to Super Reflexes in self-defense but also have defense buffs for your allies?

Super Reflexes is about more than just +Defense.  It has Mez protection (Practised Brawler gives Mag 10 versus Stun, Hold, Immobilise, Knockback, Knockup, and Sleep; Focussed Fighting gives Mag 10 versus Confuse)

 

It also has several autopowers, so even if you manage to detoggle them, they don't go to the floor for +defense.

And finally, SR has a lot of resistance to -Defense debuffs.  I mean, a lot of it - in the autopowers, no less: using Scrapper numbers, 6.92% in each of Agile, Dodge, and Lucky, for 20.76% resistance to -Defense without spending a drip of Endurance.  Then another 13.84% each in Evasion, Focussed Fighting, and Focussed Senses, for a total of 62.28% resistance to -Defense debuffs across the whole set.

Force Field has protection against three kinds of Mez (Mag 5 versus Hold, Stun, and Immobilize), and ..... bupkis against -Defense debuffs.

 

So, no; letting a Force Field character bubble themselves along with their possible team-mates, would ABSOLUTELY NOT be "equal to Super Reflexes in self-defense".  It woudl have holes that SR doesn't .... in return for being able to share those protections.

...

BY THE WAY ... that Personal Force Field thing you mentioned?  Useless if you are trying to actively participate in combat, because it puts you in the same "Only Affects Self" as Rest.

[Jeuraud]

55 minutes ago, Crysta Clear said:

That's exactly right, Jeuraud. It's a specialized support set that's tuned toward giving your teammates defense. That does not equal giving yourself defense.

So my allies can be safe in my group... because of me... while I can faceplant in this same group. What your saying is the Support AT should be the weak link of the group, just because their Support.

Also CoH is not just about the group; I should not be penalized if I want to run a Controller, Corrupter, or MM solo. There are Support sets I will not touch, because I mostly Solo.

 

As for this,

1 hour ago, Crysta Clear said:

Besides -- it does have a free softcap for zero effort. It just doesn't also let you attack enemies while it's active.

really???

[Black Zot]

3 hours ago, Crysta Clear said:

 Besides -- it does have a free softcap for zero effort. It just doesn't also let you attack enemies while it's active.

 

In other words, a completely worthless power.  Don't insult people's intelligence by claiming PFF even qualifies as a band-aid solution for this issue.

 

As to chatter around IO sets: once again, this game is balanced around SOs.  Such-and-such a set being capable of X while IO'ed out is irrelevant to balance discussions.  Period.

[Weylin]

I wonder if the useless Detention Field could be re-purposed into a weaker PFF that lets you do things

[EyeLuvBooks]

1 hour ago, Weylin said:

I wonder if the useless Detention Field could be re-purposed into a weaker PFF that lets you do things

Might be nice if this power did SOMETHING useful.

 

Something that a few of Epic Pool sets have is a form of defense/Mez Mitigation as a click power that's impossible to make Perma (so you can't use it mindlessly...it's still tactical).

 

I'm okay with this idea rather than having the full protection of the bubbles and shields.

 

Another suggestion: Make the various bubbles/shields self-targeting ONLY when running solo. The minute you hit a team, the value gets cut for the character AND the teammates. After all, you're spreading the same amount of protection around to more teammates, right?

 

With this idea soloists can have the full benefits of the buff they would normally use on others if they want. If they team, everyone understands that the buffs will be diminished because they're being spread around the team. However, they would still stack from different casters so a team of 4 FF toons could STILL enjoy that wonderful softcap goodness...they just need to work together...you know...as a team.

 

I'm pretty sure the players asking us not to make the game EASIER can't object to us actually making it a bit HARDER...

[Crysta Clear]

Forcefields just simply don't need that specific kind of help. More defense is not the way to do it. I've never once throughout 44 levels felt that my Forcefields character has been underperforming or difficult to play, whether grouped or solo. The set does not need to be given a free, effortless buff to the tune of +18% all defense.

What it needs is to have some of the less useful powers reworked into something someone might conceivably choose.

Edited September 13, 2019 by Crysta Clear

[EyeLuvBooks]

12 minutes ago, Crysta Clear said:

Forcefields just simply don't need that specific kind of help. More defense is not the way to do it. I've never once throughout 44 levels felt that my Forcefields character has been underperforming or difficult to play, whether grouped or solo. The set does not need to be given a free, effortless buff to the tune of +18% all defense.

What it needs is to have some of the less useful powers reworked into something someone might conceivably choose.

That's nice that you feel that way. Other players might not. What makes your opinion carry more weight than theirs?

 

Having powers that ONLY work on a team would be great IF the game required a team. The TFs have even been set so they can be played solo.

 

Given the relatively high number of -Def enemies in the game, I think the set could use a little love.

[Crysta Clear]

Support archetypes are meant to support. If you select one, it's presumably because you want to support your teammates.

 

If you want to have a ranged character with easy softcaps to solo with, perhaps Sentinel is more what you're looking for?

 

That being said, I have soloed just fine on my /Forcefields Corruptor, for ~44 levels. Never once did I feel like her defense was too low for the content I was at. If anything, she was one of my characters whose defenses felt the highest without set IOs.

Edited September 13, 2019 by Crysta Clear

[PaxArcana]

15 minutes ago, Crysta Clear said:

Support archetypes are meant to support. If you select one, it's presumably because you want to support your teammates.

Nonsense.

 

CoX left behind the "team or die" attitude years ago.  Catch up.

[Crysta Clear]

Yeah, I'm just going to block you, Pax. You're a pretty unfun person to have on my screen.

 

I suppose I shouldn't expect much from someone self-identifying as a neckbeard in his forum signature, though.

[Replacement]

12 hours ago, Crysta Clear said:

Maybe try playing Time if you don't like Forcefields' smaller self-buff ability?

Ah nice, you've made the OP's point quite succinctly, here! 

--

I do get concerned about the size of Defender numbers, though. I wonder if it would be ridiculous to set these powers to have a pseudopet copy your buffs back at you.  This would mean it would ignore player scales and result in a much weaker version than you're giving your party, but still very significant and end-efficient.

[PaxArcana]

24 minutes ago, Crysta Clear said:

Yeah, I'm just going to block you, Pax. You're a pretty unfun person to have on my screen.

So, you dislike when people persistently disagree with you.  Sorry I couldn't be your own personal echo chamber, CC.

 

24 minutes ago, Crysta Clear said:

I suppose I shouldn't expect much from someone self-identifying as a neckbeard in his forum signature, though.

You know, that bit of my signature is half joke, and half self-centered-jerk detector.

 

Consider yourself detected.

[Crysta Clear]

59 minutes ago, Replacement said:

Ah nice, you've made the OP's point quite succinctly, here! 

--

I do get concerned about the size of Defender numbers, though. I wonder if it would be ridiculous to set these powers to have a pseudopet copy your buffs back at you.  This would mean it would ignore player scales and result in a much weaker version than you're giving your party, but still very significant and end-efficient.

I probably have. But I don't want every support set being homogenized into a Time clone either.

[WumpusRat]

Part of me thinks "yeah, that'd be cool,  you could buff yourself with the defense sets and have a bit more flexibility and defense", but on the other hand, it feels like it might be a bit of overkill for some sets. Masterminds in particular. My bot/ff MM has ~50% def in all positionals, and that's WITHOUT using either of the (currently) ally-only shields. And she doesn't even have her alpha incarnate ability slotted  yet. Nor does she have any super-expensive sets.

 

I suppose my main fear would be stepping too much on the Sentinel AT's toes. If support sets can suddenly have massive defense, resists, status protection, etc, AND still offer a lot of benefits to teammates, it makes the Sentinel AT a bit more of a "why is this here?" stepchild. Especially for masterminds. It would make being a tankermind VASTLY easier, and FAR more powerful. 

 

So I dunno.

[PaxArcana]

6 hours ago, WumpusRat said:

My bot/ff MM has ~50% def in all positionals, and that's WITHOUT using either of the (currently) ally-only shields. And she doesn't even have her alpha incarnate ability slotted  yet. Nor does she have any super-expensive sets.

.... but you do have Sets at all, right?

 

As pointed out previously: the game is balanced around SOs, not IOs, and especially not Sets.  Put together an Alternate Build, slot with all SOs, and see what you're like then.

 

Also, look at my comparison of what SR brings to the table, and what FF does.  An /SR Sentinel is still going to be better protected than an /FF Corruptor or Mastermind, and at least comparably so to a FF/ Defender (and will have much more DPS than the Defender).

[EyeLuvBooks]

7 hours ago, Crysta Clear said:

I probably have. But I don't want every support set being homogenized into a Time clone either.

This is a fair statement and I'm sure the rest of us feel the same way. However, the idea that a character has powers that it simply CANNOT use solo is a dated system. MMs are a different animal entirely because their whole AT is built around the team THEY THEMSELVES bring to the table. A MM and their 6 pets is a team of one so their buffs make sense.

 

My second 50 is a Water/Cold Corruptor. I skipped both of the shield powers and Frostwork because frankly I feel that my time is better spent attacking my enemies with one of the best powersets in the game and debuffing the enemy rather than tossing our small buffs that, at lvl 50 play, most of my teammates don't need anyway. It's like a team of ALL FF characters now...redundant, because after the second one everyone in the team is capped and the additional Def is wasted. Me taking those three powers, even though I team almost exclusively, would be wasted.

 

No, I don't want everything to turn into a variation of Time either but given the changes to the game so far (most of them positive IMHO), I want the option of choosing ALL of the powers offered to me and having them DO SOMETHING whether I'm alone or in a team.