Maxzero

Interesting that would explain a lot. Makes sense too since its a perma passive its effect can't be too amazing.

You are a champ Orbitus 73 sec pylon kill (653 DPS) on my troller. I did a slight edit on the Arcane Bolt IOs for better proc chance and more damage. The build is in the pylon thread.

The point is is that those procs in MMs pets don't take up any of YOUR casting time. As you pointed out self cast chains are often interuptted by other things. Pets do not have that issue. As a MM you can do an 'optimal' rotation while the pets contribute on their own. As for some procs work better with some powers then others is that any different from any other archetype? Pets are not that complicated you can see all their powers in Mids. I see all your rotations but to me it just shows the limit of self cast when it comes to procs. Your personal casting is limited. If you truely want to abuse procs you need to get to layering. I almost exclusively use priority because I suits my playstyle and Coh's playspeed better.

Speaking of proc monster I have to thank Orbitus for his help with my Ill/Storm Troller. Replaced my Cardiac with Muscle, got my T4 degen and souped up my build big time. End result from just 1 attempt: 73 seconds 653 DPS. | Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1536;737;1474;HEX;| |78DA65944B4F534114C767DA5B4B5F3CA4E5218FB6142C2DB4B482BA1343458301D| |3049762B996429BB4BDE4B64D64E9C22FC0C695467C808FC48D46DDFA0DD4A871E1| |C60FA020B8AFE7DEFF011A7B03F9CD9C39FF3967CE9CE9C2ED4BEE5757EE4C0BD99| |E2AAA954A26A595ABBA562CE674FB35B55AD3D5A2A0CF7B3D9F0BCCE885F25A4E0F| |68AB81545ED52A765A081DFB1F4AE373C562AD52D0CA87067F83CF4C6D7535BE58D| |5F45266B1562A6965DA52B8D31AC916353D9BD3375CE6E472B1B096AF3AB1B09ECB| |AD786036AC24F1CEAE17B2F1B411A590CD2CA8952A297B289F28FD3F9482BFBA4DC| |C5984482AC25292A04A1C5084326B35E79171703C62D021968FB5F4479FD8228BE4| |DDE40DEC76629999019D4B60EB4D9EABE0E6881056D65AB7841941B90FBA1F802D9| |C41CB06693A15E1BE0BAD83CA6B93C8C4E693A6AF8B6C76CECEFE037E595A72C0CF| |E670E2945D2EB0C70D9EF2305BC1401B38449BB9A095AE31E4D36A52118FC9EEE15| |81E1FFC57086DB0296DE711BFFD1CF3ACC5D40F4E81C393E053D274700D3A76E17B| |729F18261E60EEFDC3BC084D570A7349F975720E9DE66D58C9E2E3AAF8CEA0720AD| |9BAB902DD7CC2413EE1205724C015097245225C916D422F67D7FB12FBF5BF60EE80| |C1E7E0F036187E063E216D1FE7D2C737F4C8682FEC671DF862317B6DFC3BF31B18F| |B0AEE90AF9F63FBF770E2C03E18FC0B86B832C35CA9D35CC135D20EB176E827F209| |1DA07AD16930F4011D15E68E8A524C8379D28EB07624C9FB26983168C371CC2313A| |C35F6F02AE223851A85568E72C7C4B83B3ED1DA1877D398712103B47681A68A557C| |A6B538C78CBF46874DBC61BE07936F99EF989CB7E81222C15D90E058FDCAFFEFD43| |81C1E6ABD1E6D5A4D3459924D96C926CB549365BED11233F2B48BB472F40B2124BF| |1E47FBD1CBAF2F398D8A60AC368C6F358C7FD158722FC910F6D83DB64919B49A2FA| |6E7AA34F9BBD17F14FE7B8DFEF750BB894DDC67BA21D63C3DA9248FFF01EB54F730| |-------------------------------------------------------------------| Simple priority system: FR, Tornado, LS then Blind/Arcane Bolt alternate, FR, Tornado and LS on CD. T4 Assault, T4 Muscle, T4 Ageless Pretty much it.

The basic limitation of any power that uses procs is that it is designed to proc only a certain amount of times a minute. So how do you generate more procs in the same amount of time? For me the key idea to keep in mind to maximise procs (and this applies to all classes) is the idea of multiple layers of time. There are two ways to layer time: 1) Either concurrent applications 2) Concurrent cooldowns For 1) the poster child would be MMs. With the right pets and slotting that can effectively have 7 different channels (6 pets + player) for applying chances to proc. So for every 1 minute of 'real' time the MM has had 7 minutes of 'proccing' time. For 2) It's usually support/epic power sets that either contain pets, pseudo pets or mid range cooldown (20-30 second) powers that can be cycled so that multiple powers are recharge at the same time effectively increasing how much time you have every minute. For example if you have a lot of global recharge and have 3x 60 second cooldown powers full of procs that you cycle every 20 seconds then every minute of 'real' time you have effectively had 10 minutes of 'proc' time (1 minute of self casting plus 3x 60 secs). Storm and Time are obvious candidates. While you self casting is an important source of procs you are limited by the fact that there is only so much casting you personally can do. If you want more procs you will need additional layers.

Can we have the option to collate multiple damage numbers into one number? I have no idea how complicated this is coding wise but I have an idea for cleaning up visual clutter from the damage numbers above enemies heads. I usually play Controllers and have my ST Hold with 5 damage procs. If I attack a enemy under Containment I can see: Initial damage hit Containment hit 5 x damage procs Interface hit That's 8 damage numbers potentially from 1 attack. Basically I have no real idea of how hard I hit the enemy I just hit them for 'orange clump.' If this was just one number it would be a lot more readable, I can check the combat log if I want a more detailed breakdown.

Honestly I really don't find it that much of an issue. Maybe on few AVs that scoot around but for everything else between constant KD, enemy attack animations locking them in place and FR it gets the job done. Enemies run from just about everything nowadays: debuff toggles, burn patches, etc and few groups seem to have Controllers/Doms who are willing to use their AoE Immo anyway or at least use it effectively. You get by especially since a lot of the popular endgame content is in indoor or space restricted areas with fearless bosses: BAF, Lambda, Tin Man, Apex, Market Crash, ITF, LGTF, Hami, MSR, etc. Would I like a ST Immo for AVs? Sure but I can live without till the Utility Belt power pool comes out.

It almost feels like Interface proc rates are subject to PPM. Of course that does not explain the DoT only ticking for 1-2 ticks and not for 5.

Already altered slightly since you were over the 5 lotg cap (had 6). Easy enough to move to Fly and Hover BotZ slots and delete lotg in Weave to make a second 6 x Red Fortune. Same end cost but more def, resistance, damage (2%) and global recharge. Changed Tornado slotting for near identical end cost but slightly more damage and much more recharge. Some sneaky slotting on Mind over body for more resist and less cost. | Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1534;725;1450;HEX;| |78DA65944B4F534114C767DA5B6B5F3CA4BC84D29682D002A515D49D182A1A0C982| |6B814CBB514DAE4B697DCB6892E5DF805D8B8F5C9D3B8F1B5F61BA851E3C28D1F40| |41705FCFBDFF0334F606F29B3973FEE79C3933D3F97B57BDAFAE3F9812B225A5A9E| |57226A5972A86AE6939C37953AD540D5513F4F96FE573A169A3505ACD19217D2594| |CAAB7AD9490B9113FF23697C56D3AAE5825E3A3204EB7CA6AB2B2BF1858A6E14330| |BD562512F5148E14DEB245BD08D6CCEB8EFB126D7B4C26ABEE2C6C25A2EB7EC83D9| |B492C43FB356C8C6D36696423633AF962BA4ECA27A62F4FF580AFE6A0E316B1322A| |9085B51822A31A00865C66ECDA3A3E068D4A44B2C9D68E98F3EF1842C92A3C9DB88| |766A899901DD8B60D31D9EABE0FAA01076D6DA5F2A964DD902BD3BE0E96DE62EDB1| |F42EBA2F63A242A71B4A37A0FD99C5C9DF307FCB2B4E4829FC3E5865F8707ECF282| |677DCC2630D40CF653300FB4D23322AC0E345954C473B2FB38BF8FF32F139A915F6| |9BE84FC2D1799176C96BE6F121C98005F90A6957BD0BA07DF3307C421E221E6FE3F| |CC2BD074A43097545F1BEFB7CD3A0D3B59DAB9AAF6F3383B856C9DDC814EDE611FE| |FB08F3B12E28E84B92351EEC806A19BABEBDE45BCDE1DE62618DE060736C0A12DF0| |19697BB8BA1EEED053F37AC1660F7CB159776DF43BF31B38F615DC24DF20E70EEE6| |3C7A10330FC178C706706B853E7B883ABA4ED676DFF4FD4133944F7625360E403B1| |8DEAE51B150BE086E5493BC8DAC124C74D30C7A01D8A631E1D67AD19C3AF888F946| |A185A39CC37668CF7FE89D646F8368D980712A0B5CB3475DAC5675A8B73CEF86BDC| |B0F137CCB760F21DF33D93EB161D4224B8CF09CED5ABFCFF4ECDCDE1A1D66AB186D| |5448325D9609968B04C3658E61A2C69E5F8F741487E3BAE96E3775F5B749BFDC058| |AD1BDFAD1BFFA2B1E45B2D2388B1776293326CB7DE4BD70D69F177BDFF30FCF7EBF| |D1FA173E3EB38CD745DAE397A50491EFF03F8FCFBAC| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|

Each burn patch has a 5 target limit IIRC from live

| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1540;727;1454;HEX;| |78DA6594DB4E13511486F7B41B6B3923E524A742819E68A1807A89A1A2218A69829| |762194B4B9B4C3B64DA46B8523CBC805E78EB91A3F11D7C03356A4C34313E8082F8| |0075CDFC0B18D3499A6FEF7FD6BFF65E7BD6EEFCDAA5FAB75736A685D21CD7D4623| |119D70B2543D7B4B4E1BAAE96CA86AA097A3C37B269EF8C912BACA40DAF9EF1C6B3| |AA5E74D10BDF49FC91353AA769E5624E2F1C09FDB698997226135D28E9463EB950C| |EE7F502A514F5099D6C0BBA914A1BEB75D6E4B2965BC9966AF162359D5E6E806CAA| |64F1CCAEE652D184B94A2E959C578B257276D27E42F47BA6087E2A3562CE21444C0| |A475E015562AF1472D669CD83A3E068D0A45B2C9D781DE20E795BA5185B63AE83CF| |2946E1FCCA4DE43FB5C44C82B58B60E32D9EABE0E361219CEC75BE919626B7C1FA5| |DF0F40E738FF547F0BAE9C06BAC852BA2A60DF53CA17C2EE4535CDF11D7F90D4C51| |881BF18A9BE3C7AEA2DE4132D5F1BBBAB0B06A6FB428C54BD21B905334B06F99D00| |44D365D40FEE6F3CC730ECBDF3781F9D024E6AFC9D3C2B5B6ECE3DD9943A29FF817| |73CF1FE64578DAE3982BB4BF56F6B63EC41EBC0FC081FBE0E806F32E18B9073AC9D| |BC6E7D436817A25691D5C6F07D7E4F528D69A9B842E5EAB6B0FF13DBBCC2D706007| |1CDA04FDDB6086BCDDECEDE67DF4F13EFA36FEDFEF08EF3FC8F5BC305B115E67EF2| |787D59791CF60EC0BF32BB845B1FD7CFEFD073823EF21E8E3331CE233F5739FAE90| |6790F736F813FBF5FD0043D3386FDF3BC4867AD16B11EEB52C7987D93B1C833632C| |E8CC0EB8F621E1C0343A6D723C57B5A22C0FD13E0DEFA405A98BF49B80377F02369| |51EEDDE81472C678FD571432CEF1E3FCBD7AE4F1DD94228CB8F610F77C103C1B60F| |A41B32C5CD64A2574E237A715CA5CA5C4AA94C92A65AA4AB956A524E4F17F8450F8| |5EB99B8FEF7E65B1D6AC1A63D536BE6D1BFFA2B1C267A0F89063DFAE0D38ADBBF4D| |BAE05107760D79EE22C12B6DCD374B9623CFE07BD6EF404| |-------------------------------------------------------------------| My current build: pretty tanky, Psi Tornado is for AoE FF +recharge procing only and I am usually spamming FR, LS and Tornado at near recharge cap. ST is a pretty basic rotation of weaving Arcane Bolt and Blind in between Storm Casts. Even with T4 Ageless and T3 Cardiac end can get a bit tight if I drop all my AoEs in arow. Hopefully T4 Cardiac will finally put that to bed. Recharge is at least 10% higher then that due to Ageless. Basically yes I have a rotations but its mainly support and helping enable of Storm powers. It won't reach full power till Utility Belt pool comes out with its fast casting ST Immo (that also has KD) and a surprising good ST Dagger power that is like Spectral Wounds but no heal back and full Containment damage.

That's actually a decent idea. Even the ST hold can do something similiar. It definately favours Fire with its fast cast times though.

Well farming is basically about AoE. So you need sets that AoE. Bots have good AoE but only the Assault Bot so you are a bit limited by his 2 x 16s AoE cooldowns. Thugs and Demons are on the next line. Both their T3 pets have limited AoE, Bruiser has Footstomp while the Prince has two cold PBAoEs. Both sets of Lts have a good range of selections with multiple AoEs each. On minions Thugs win out because of Arsonist but he is rather suicidal. It's up to you which you go. Thugs go well with defence based secondaries (FF, Traps, Dark, etc) while Demons are good with resist based ones (Thermal, Sonic).

Plant could be a -damage debuff. Fire's 'smoking' effect could be a simply -hit or -recharge. It might not sound flashy but its -30 or so it would be very noticable.

Its great for seeing a different perspective. I tend to play a lot Controllers much more then any other archetype. Like Defenders Controllers have poor damage scaling and Containment is of almost no use to /Storm. So my philosophy has been to fill my rotation with attacks that improve my 'big hitters' in Freezing Rain, Tornado and Lightning Storm. Their DPA leaves my regular attacks in the dust so I focus on as much recharge as possible. Lots of FF +recharge procs to maximise stacking of the powers. My personal attacks are just support. I am wondering is the animation times of Ice so good that it would outweigh the benefits of a greater number of Tornados, FR and LS from FF +recharge procs in other damage sets? I had the same idea on my Ill/Storm to weave a solid rotation in between my Storm powers for maximum DPS. Yet in practise against Rikti pylons my actual kill times plummeted. Now maybe Defenders work completely differently but at least for Controllers Storm does enough damage on its own and sacrificing Storm DPS to up my direct damage DPS was a big mistake.

The real Umbra beast bug is the unending Howling sfx. It's gotten to the point where I am thinking of replacing with sound file with one of silence.

Okay I have updated my Ill/Storm/Psi | Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1538;716;1432;HEX;| |78DA6594DB4E13511486F7B4536B4F50683909484B8142A1A515D44B0CF51023601| |3BC14CB585ADA64E890699BC895E2E105BCC14394830A1E12DFC13750A3C63BE303| |28880F50D7F45FC0C44E20DF9E7FAFC35E6BAFE9F4ADF3EEF797562784E44DAA4AA| |9944E6AC5B2AEA96A56B7CF28E58AAEA8821EFFB57C3630A9178A8B593DA0E502C9| |BCA295ECB4113AB23F708D5D56D54AA9A0150F841E93CD6425978BCD96357D293D5| |B595AD28A1452B8531AB9CD6A7A26ABAFB86A2F17D5C262BEECC4C67236BBE0816C| |A8E4E2BFB05CC8C452469642263DAD94CAE4D94EE789D0FFBA24F8A9DAC43342421| |6F273F0F83A7303746E82DE2D70FEC897FEE8111BA440AC5AA5AF1621BA6561F9C6| |FC02CADFC14D32B47266EB754B2DE2B179661A74CE810D37980AF8B05F081BFBDA9| |E12C2B2703F01038FC1E02330B406B63F80AF83AEC22EE1D4F616A9A665080ED61C| |ACF5929D0B9AE41A46C56EA6447B1EE4973D5710B7750A3C31CD9C01DBAF820B14A| |B113E5223C7F1325FD15E13D7D3B40BFBE67D4BEDDCCD7FF1EEFFC33C67D0215A93| |78B7D2597C7C76DF292B6E90B41668B61627EA09B8C0A01B1CF080D1066623F882D| |0C6B7DAC6BDD82674F0F93ADE2147D75B30F806ECDB06C3AFC1A11D3047BE9DECDB| |791BF1BAEE807DABE0C9BBCC7BCCFBE016A19BE7A99BE727C27335C27315E579DA2| |1DB1EBE939E3DF426B00FF6710FC3DCC3A115A24F168BE4D3CB7DEAFD89F3867E80| |9109F439F401B62394C3D047788EF2E4D7CF75F527A00DC499518336118E71BE513| |062F8FA65F191520CF26C0DF20C24B8D79F686F98EF73B84DAAD5F699B418E78A9D| |45ACD133CCD3CC713031C6E473BEA410718E17E71C5DF2FF5FAE511C3EDD6A3552B| |71BAF531275CA589D325EA74C999528EA4EC987BF1942E25E38BC87BF0DD539A7D1| |25AC15D3FAA669FD8BD612D728851063D7AC05ADB56FE9B7591B84DD9E595B43CF5| |2A6D8133E9278FD0FE6CCF728| |-------------------------------------------------------------------| Note my Tornado may seem over slotted for recharge but the Superior ATO set in Mids is bugged it actually only gives 23% recharge not 53%. Got to 1.39 (99 seconds) for 515 DPS. My prediction of 120s was widely optimistic it seems. Using T4 Assault/Ageless/Cardiac/Spectral (25% Immo chance forgot to change it plus nothing decent to change it too). Note I don't have any -regen this is just pure DPS. My rotation was a very strange Arcane Bolt and Psi Tornado alternate. Both powers which have rather poor DPA. The reason I use them is because they both have FF + recharge procs. With the additional +recharge procs in Tornado and Lightning Storm plus high global recharge I am almost at the recharge cap whenever one of IOs proc. Basically I am a Tornado/Freezing Rain/Lightning Storm (both Tornado and Storm have fantasic DPA) delivery system. I have partial triple overlap on Tornados and partial quad overlap on Lightning Storm. All Illusion Controllers are probably losing 20-30 DPS due to suicidal Phantasm AI(please fix Devs). I am wondering if a pure 'Pylon build' using a Patron pet would be a DPS boost. The only attack that takes +FF recharge is Water Spout but the Pet there is melee focused and will just die. The only pets to really survive would be Mu and Soul Mastery pets which are not so suited to single target.

Literally the only reason to take Flash is as a set mule for 4 slot Gaze of the Basilisk. 1.25% range def and 7.5% recharge for 4 slots is damn good. You could argue almost all AoE Holds fall into this catagory with the only exception being probably Volcanic gasses (seriously good CC power).

Since a bunch of post were lost in the forum upgrade here is a repost. I was using this in Tornado and it worked pretty well. So I went to Mids to check its stats. Has a autohit aura that ticks every 4 seconds (plus inital tick) Aura does 11 damage, has 15 radius and 16 target cap Has a 30% chance to stun at mag 2 for 3 seconds Last 20 seconds so should get 6 'ticks' 66 AoE damage every proc is fairly decent to me.

1.42 with this Ill/Storm/Psy build: | Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1538;705;1410;HEX;| |78DA6594594F13511886CF69A7D66EB2B46C42A1A52050686905F59284BA44056C8| |297621961A04D860E99B6895C7AE16FC0E5C21D5C122F8DFA2BD4A8F1C62D5E2B88| |3FA07E9DEF0526740279CEBCE7DBCFE94C5F3FED7F79EEC684908D195D2D957219A| |358360D5DD74CF78C5AAE98AA2EE8095DCE6B9149B3505CD6CC88B114C9E455A3E4| |A68DD8BEFDAE6BF2BCAE574A05A3B82BF4D86C262B4B4BC9D9B261AEE4662B2B2B4| |691420A5FD620B7B37A61395FF65AEBD9554D5B0CB05C53C9CA6FBD4D69EA2ABD84| |CEAC161692D95A96C2426E5A2D953573AD9DEA89D3FF3D29F0545D629D30A008E52| |EF3F01DF036D37B8BE91F710A9156C4FCBE2FFDD123EE93C262D5293F3984082BC2| |F119FCC854BE301F90A113999D571C56C443F3608EE99D631EB90AAA4C0F8DD3253| |9B3AB455ADA23821BD5B8A1F592E0613BE9191696D6083E26DD87183ED84BB20F70| |0C2530C3B9BA2F31A31799B12966DF3473915C1BD847361CC8F184F69AD063D316D| |B37EF38AC2936FFE3F7D05F7082D99A612E906F90EB7305BD5CDFD106F008B3CBCF| |EC0E30233EA64668411F2D6F11F715B3FD3533F28679EC9762F121F9B4E1ECDA705| |6ED38AB6E9C651467B941B61DE8ABE305DF86AEE7CCE83366DF0673E029736893E9| |A4197762EE9DC75953480BA3D7307A8DA39711F498408F09F49EC02C36093DE8B56| |71BBDEDE08C30E301CC78688D1854C432F9F4A2FEDE9F5C43EC07F89D19FFCA1CF9| |06DEE41879F2ED876F7F1A334C8109E44B22DF28335EF30D29E21D851AC47D1CC41| |D49E3EEBDA7BD61CC65B84D5A73FE405A12B992A738D6E849F00438CE4C8F81A8B3| |95669A42BC14727429077FB1E19AC256D578DD6EAA4E49D7296375CA789D3265571| |2DC7756D9FB56088959781AF7BE09D5396F6D4ABC566DEB6BB6F56F5A4BF428631C| |636B5F9332EAE42FD60569F18FDD7E90EDB7EDDA3ACF2E6BCB31112409EBFF8DE7F| |535| |-------------------------------------------------------------------| With T3 Reactive, T3 Cardio, T4 Assault Honestly the rotation was stuffed and the build is no where near min maxed for ST at all. Probably get into the 1.30s if I really tried for the 'perfect' run. If I was interested in pure pylon DPS I would go Ill/Storm/Levithan for Water Spout and Perma PP pet. Something like this: [ | Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1550;712;1424;HEX;| |78DA6594594F135114C7EF6DA7D66E6C65154A07CA66A19BA03E9250D4A80549F05| |12C230CB4C9B443A6AD914763F02BE0F2E00E2E899F468D2F6EF15941F4BD1EE6FC| |81864EDAFCEEFCE79C73CF327766EE4CFBDF5FBA3B296453DAD04AA56CDA2C962DD| |33074CB3DAB952B966608BA5AAFE77475CACA1757754B3557D4744E334B6E7A1039| |B23F708D5F368C4A296F160F84708DCD546565253E5F36AD4276BE522898450A297| |C7326B95D34F2ABB9B2D75ECFAFE9FA7280E57D95ACFCF65D46D7D6E846BDB0965F| |8A4F9B857C51A360D98C7E3BAF95735A313BA395CABAB5DE49B945E9FF440A5C559| |7D8240C2B4279CC3CF9087CC8F43E60FAC79C42A414B178E44B3FBAC4535258AC3A| |E54787102145383E811F98CA67E63332746267E70D871DF1C42298657A17980D374| |18DE9A1D6BA24EFEC6A93B6F682E046366E68FD2478D84E7A4685AD35812F49F721| |860FF692EC031C4309CCF25EBDD7987D5799910C736086B94CAE8DEC231B8FEDF18| |A9E35A3C6E61DB66FD973D85D6CF9CBF7AD7FC049667B9AB944BE41CECF15F4727E| |ED01E6A946B081D9E367F6A20E9DD0865EB4FD546CED39691D984D0766D18959746| |2562A66B545B65DC8BBEB1D4FBBE72DB3F73553DD66F66D816F984EEA6137FADA7D| |863585B4106A09A196A88F3986DC63A82D869A62A8719B10C64CC2BBDC1B750F334| |00F87D1C3D3EBC4A02256C9A71FF9F7FFE01C22DFC16FCC81AFCCA12FCCE10D8E91| |23DF41F80EA6581B4A8231EC17674613CC31F8DEA35023F01D398F9CCE8167E1330| |19F71660ABE1BE43B8ABE8D76487B0EF7498B235E1CEF4F023D48A00709D49E422F| |52FFF01E51CF938897C47BD1A31C3FB1A17D85ADAAD1BAA7C93A2555A78CD729137| |54AA65689F1D998530EBF1542E2BC789A0EBF09D505EFFE89E2B556B3BE55B3FE45| |6B891A658463EC1C6952F639F98B7545DAFC5D6B3FC2F6BBB5DA26F76EAE668FC92| |04958FF07695DFBE0| |-------------------------------------------------------------------| Why don't I? Because this second build is much more limited then the first build. The PP pet dies all the time (lt level mob with hardly any HP or resists), runs along the ground so you don't use it if doing any quick runs. The Spout is great single target DPS with excellent cast efficiency but Psi Tornado in the first build is way better at clearing a room. Plus the first build has perma CC protection which helps a heap versus Carnies and such. I suppose with the extra 50+ DPS (Pet + Spout on triple Freezing Rain) I would suspect low 120s would be very possible. Could try to fit in a -res proc if you were really keen.

I thought either some damage, debuff or just Mag 4. I mean whats the point of AoE hold which almost always has no effect on the most dangerous targets?

So ... 150 seconds is our target endpoint ... which is 2m30s for base recharge. Honestly even 150s still seems kinda lame. That a 2 1/2 minute CD to CC 16x non Boss enemies. Sure with recharge you could get it sub 1 minute mark but eh. Doms get away with it because they can do it at Mag 6 and but rotating CCs can keep pack after pack CCed. Controllers really can't do that. Maybe the Control power sets should have slightly different powers between Doms and Controllers because they utilize the same powers very differently.

Well yes. Pretty much all endgame Doms are Perma Dom. But since Doms don't need to worry about Containment (type of CC does not matter) Seeds of Confusion is also another easily perma CC power. To me AoE Hold's statlines are basically relics of the past. Pretty much the only reason to take them is for a 4 slot mule for Gaze of the Basilisk.

Doms can already perma CC now. Flashfire with CC/recharge slotting under perma Domination last well over 30 seconds with CD in the 20s. That's at mag 6 as well.

One thing you might want to try on an Ill/Storm is the Spectral interface. It gives a proc (10-25%) of a 4 second Mage 2 Immo on hit. Stacks up to 4 times (8 mag). Now I know Interface is bugged with regards to proccing but that seems mainly to do with the damage DoTs. Was messing around in the Comic Con farm and I noticed far fewer runners and much better DPS uptime on my Tornados and Waterspouts. If they can stack onto Immoing an AV that would be great. More testing required. *edit* Okay after some testing with just the 15% chance to Immo there are some quirks. Freezing Rain does not tend to proc it well (possibly a side effect from PPM changes?) but Phantasm (plus Decoy) and Phantom Army seem to proc it well. Now as to wether the DoT changes are a bug or a nerf (someone was claiming that it was like this on one of the BETA servers on live) it seems the Immo part works well. Now this Immo may not mean much for a regular Controller who has AoE and ST Immo but for a Ill/Storm is great for setting up Containment or more importantly keeping enemies from running away and stationary. Now as to how well they will work against AVs (especially +4 ones) I am not too sure. You maybe need the T4 with the 25% Immo chance to know for sure. AVs only have mag 3 protection against Immo so you only need 2 procs to pin them. I could see it working.