Dr Causality

Yeah that's my preferred slotting too. Another advantage is all Dark Servant's powers have -Tohit, so you get a good amount of mileage from the Cloud Sense Dmg proc. He sometimes kills whatever he fixates on while I'm taking care of the main targets... You can also get some decent mileage out of the Gravitation Anchor proc, since his Tenebrous Tentacles is aoe. The holds frequently stack with his Petrifying Gaze hold. At least one Heal IO makes a big difference too. Finally, I also usually slot the +Res pet IOs into the other pet powers. All combined Fluffly becomes reasonably self-sustaining and tanky....

What are you hoping to get from choosing Ice Control? Do you have a character theme or playstyle in mind? The defining power is Arctic Air. Sadly, if you consider the amount of control, compared to the amount of aggro generated, then Arctic Air performs far below powers like Plant's 'Seeds of Confusion'. A short coming of the set is that Ice does not offer tools to deal with hard targets like AVs. That limitation is compounded by Artic Air being an always on pbaoe toggle, causing you to draw aggro from hard targets that Arctic Air couldn't mezz. For this reason on a Controller I'd try to pair Ice with a 2ndary that gave you tools to deal with tough targets. (Avoid sets like Empath, Pain, Forcefield etc.) The most success I've had with Ice Control was playing on a team with another Ice Control character. Stacking 2 x Arctic Air makes all the difference since it Confuses everything Boss level and below. If I was going to play without a 2nd Ice Control character I'd probably build an Ice Control Dominator instead of Controller. Then I'd build the Dominator as a sort of Blapper that that focuses on attacks. I'd probably combine with Martial Assault for all the aoe attacks, then add in Ice Mastery Epic for -Res Debuff in Sleet, HoarFrost Heal, Frozen Armor etc.. I had one of those on Justin and it did well. But then I tried a Fire Control version with Bonfire slotted for KB -> KD....and it was tough to think about the Ice Control build again. Bonfire with the KD proc is so good it probably should be nerfed.

The set bonuses from Superior Will of the Controller will be more useful for most builds due to it's 10% Rech and 5% Ranged Def etc. Also the chance for Psi Dmg proc is a 4 PPM purple which is impressive for something that can be slotted into AOE mezz powers. I haven't been that impressed with the Overpowering Presence set. Might be worth it if you needed Energy/Dark Defense. As for the proc, in my testing the Energy Font's don't last very long or do that much. Since even the Superior version of the is just a 2 PPM you often don't get any Fonts. (The non Superior is 1 PPM making it a waste as far as I'm concerned...) My overall take is the Energy Fonts proc is basically an unreliable gimmick. The only good thing I can say about it is it seems better than the Dominator Fiery Orb equivalent, since the Fonts are at least suppose to stun.

Does that include from Beta servers? I personally had two Ice melee Incarnated stalkers on Justin.

Thanks! Looking forward to hearing about your exploits. You might inspire me to roll the Ice/Bio stalker I've been tempted to make.

Thanks. I've corrected the numbers in my post accordingly.

Nature is very underestimated for MM and it's the Absorb SmalltalkJava mentions that makes it perform much better than people are imagining. Far from needing to be paired with sturdy pets, Nature actually makes pets sturdy. Slotted Nature gives you an aoe Absorb Shield equal to 51% of the target's base HP, plus has a 17% aoe Resistance. That's a massive good EHP increase, especially for the tier 1 and even tier 2 pets. Tier 1 pets have just 575 HP, so Nature's Absorb Shield fully slotted is roughly 295 HP. Meaning Nature more than doubles your tier 1 pets EHP: 295 HP Absorb + 575 base HP. Except it's actually more because if I understand correctly Absorb functions like temporary HP, so the Resistance you have decreases incoming damage first. That means the 295 Absorb is effectively buffed when Nature's 17% resistance reduces the incoming dmg making the Absorb equal to around 355 EHP with the base HP similarly buffed to 692 EHP. Putting them together you're tier 1 pets go from 575 HP to 1047 EHP. Except it's actually better because of course you're going to use the two +10% Resistance IO procs. So actually the that 295 HP Absorb shield is buffed by a 37% Resistance up to 468 EHP! Combined with base HP similarly buffed from 575 HP to 858 HP, for a whopping total of 1326 EHP. And it's even better on Demon's because they have Ember Demon Shield for 10-13% Resistance and plus one of the all highest base Resistance of all the MM pets. [Incorrect values] Slotted Nature gives you a 650 HP aoe Absorb Shield plus a bonus 17% Resistance. That's a massive EHP increase, especially for the tier 1 and even tier 2 pets. Tier 1 pets have just 575 HP, so Nature's Absorb Shield fully slotted is more than the pets entire base HP. Meaning Nature more than doubles your tier 1 pets EHP: 650 HP Absorb** + 575 base HP. Except it's actually more because if I understand correctly Absorb functions like temporary HP, so the Resistance you have decreases incoming damage first. That means the 650 Absorb is effectively buffed when Nature's 17% resistance reduces the incoming dmg making the Absorb equal to around 783 EHP with the base HP similarly buffed to 692 EHP. Putting them together you're tier 1 pets go from 575 HP to 1475 EHP. Except it's actually better because of course you're going to use the two +10% Resistance IO procs. So actually the that 650 HP Absorb shield is buffed by a 37% Resistance up to 970 EHP! Combined with base HP similarly buffed from 575 HP to 858 HP, for a whopping total of 1828 EHP. And it's even better on Demon's because they have Ember Demon Shield for 10-13% Resistance and plus one of the highest base Resistance of all the MM pets. Another way of thinking about this is that 50% Absorb shield effectively increases the value of any resistance by 50%. This helps illustrate an important point: the Absorb most benefits pets and characters with high resistance. So having high base resistance like Demons, maximizes the EHP from the Absorb shield. All these buffs apply to your Incarnate pets and of course your MM's EHP too. So it makes sense why we'd see these on iTrials. Nature's big struggle is the Absorb power has a high 240s Rech, with a duration of just 60s. Normal slotting only gets it to around 68s cool down, so not even up 100%. But you'd like it up far more often that. So probably pairs best with Teams that have Destiny Ageless, Kins, Time, or Radiation for +Rech buffs. In sum Nature is a top tier MM set in terms of pet survivability. Probably strongest when paired with Thugs, or Bots (and maybe Beast.) Since they all have okay base resistances, but most importantly get +Def bufffs that the Nature set lacks. A high Defense means pets are less likely to get hit, so less likely to deplete the Absorb shield and get hit a 2nd time before the Absorb is off cooldown again... But also very good on Demons since they have the top overall pet Resistance, maximizing the Absorb shield EHP buff. Whereas Ninjas having 0 base Resistance, except for Oni's 52% fire, means Nature won't buff them as much as the other set's pets are buffed. (Sadly, nothing short of Dev rebalancing is going to make Ninja's as sturdy as other set's pets.) **Edit 2 ** Kelly Rocket explained the the Absorb value from Mid's is for the MM itself, but would be equal to just 50% of the target's base HP, so would be much smaller for MM pets, then the 650 HP number I got from Mid's. **Edit** Wanted to mention that this number is pulled from Mid's and I have been unable to verify it from in game data. From looking at the grey Absorb graphic bar it actually appears the Absorb is only slightly below 1/2 of the Tier 1 Pet HP and about 1/3 of the MM HP....assuming it's to scale... That would still be a major EHP buff, but significantly less than Mid's displays... Beyond the gray bar ontop of the HP bar, the only in game number I can find show 25% Absorb which if correct would mean it does not get enhanced by IO's or Alpha Incarnate.

Thanks for making it!

I did not make this, and I can't seem to even see who did from just the bookmark. [GM Miss aka CR Miss on these Homecoming forums is the author] But it should have everything you want: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tmuk9Jf-NxhSE2P1RB6wRtn-qUDvwqpV_10B9QAAinE/edit#gid=0 *Edit* Found the thread I'd bookmarked it from:

Where do the Winter Event set IO's fall into this? Are they treated like Purples?

I'd argue that instant snipe changes were more of a nerf to MA since it put the set more in line with other sets that had snipes. Before one of the standout things that made MA exceptional was being able to perma instant snipe because of the long duration +Tohit from Evenomed Blades. Whereas other sets that could not get perma instant snipe without external buffs... But now all snipe sets are more of less on equal footing. I'm pretty sad about these changes on one hand. But on the other I'll acknowledge that MA felt kinda broken compared to the other sets, so this balancing made sense.

With all the IO sets and Incarnate powers wild things are possible, like Blasters Soloing the ITF. I'm wondering if anyone has been able to do things like that on their stalkers? While testing out an Elect/SD stalker build on Beta server I managed to make it solo to the final AV fight in the last mission of the ITF at +2/+8. But I just didn't have the DPS to overcome the Nictus healing. Admittedly, Elect doesn't have the best single target damage and I had built more for AOE. So that made me wonder what stalkers with better single target damage had been able to do?

I never understood how Thugs got Leadership Abilities like Maneuvers, while Merc's who are soldiers don't . Seems to backwards.

You're greatly underestimating Leviathan. It can use all the same -Res procs as Suppression, except now with PPM weirdness because it has a smaller cone and longer base recharge it has much higher chances of procing, plus starts out an automatic -15% Res ahead. Sure Leviathan attacks are high animation time, but Suppression is even higher. If you look at Arcana time and compare DPA it's almost identical to Suppression, so Arctic Breath is just -15% Res debuff better than Suppression in exchange for a smaller cone. But it doesn't stop there it's also more -Def, a 30% slow and a chance of KD for mitigation. The other Leviathan power that's great is School of Sharks. Again look at Arcana time and you'll see it's nearly identical DPA to Suppression, except it's also Mag3 Immob. So you get an Immob that does the same DPA as one of your attacks. It's a smaller cone, but again combined with higher base rech that means better chance of procing. A Superior Frozen Blast chance to Immobilize procs very reliably in School of Sharks stacking enough Immob for most Lts and bosses. With all the debuffs and pets I have a big problem with enemies trying to run. Two Leviathan aoe powers stop most all the runners and keep enemies from closing into melee range, while doing normal Crab levels of aoe dmg. I open with Arctic Breath, then School, then Venom Grenade. After that it depends on what's still standing. Slotting Positrons with +5 boosted Dmg/Range IO means the cones are effectively much bigger since you've increased range to 72. Bile Spray you can skip. You already have two high recharge powers, so you're better off with the lower recharge, wider cone, and -Def of Suppression or better DPA of Frag Grenade. Leviathan's Summon Guardian easily feels like the best pet I have. After tough ambushes like on a solo ITF run it's often the only pet still standing after the fight is over. Not sure why you'd compare a single target Longfang to the aoe Artic breath. Of course LongFang does better single target DPA. But every decent Crab build will take Longfang, and it does even more Dmg when the target is stacked with an extra -15% Res debuff. *Edit* I went back and tested Omega Maneuver again. The delay before detonation is about half of what I remembered so it's not as bad as I recalled. I still don't like it due to the long recharge, combined with the delay making it a waste on fast moving teams. But I can see it being useful as an "oh sh*t" power for ambushes, or way draw alpha aggro from pets and cluster mobs. The high recharge also makes it a good Dmg proc mule, but it's hard for me to justify the slots given it's only up at best around every 90s or longer. The high recharge you need for making the pets perma means you just don't need many attacks, so I'll probably do some experimenting with a build that drops Frag Grenade or Suppression for Omega on test. [What I'd previously written corrected for actual detonation time...] We also disagree about Omega Maneuver. Outside of being fun to use, I find it totally skippable and definitely not a useful contribution to DPS. Even on a high enough Rech build to have all pets perma, Omega is still a 90+ second recharge. So it can't be used every spawn, nor is it up enough to contribute sustained DPS in AV fights. With it's roughly 2.244s cast time there's 22s +10s delay before detonating, enemies are often dead before Omega does any of it's damage. Your Crab itself could easily get 6 or 7 3 AOE attacks off in that 22s +10s, which with Leviathan does more -Res to boost your pets dmg. Omega Maneuver is mainly useful for drawing aggro, clustering mobs and preventing runners. But as I mentioned you can do all that with Leviathan's normal attack chain, whereas Omega will need another 70+ seconds after detonation before you can use it again. Anyway, thankfully there are plenty of ways to play the game. *Edit* Corrected Detonation time delay on Omega Maneuvers with Strike out. That I couldn't remember how long the delay before detonation was tells you how little I've use it...basically respec-ed out of it after leveling...

Honestly, unless you're trying to do Master of TF's, you don't need Travel powers now that all the Temp and Prestige travel powers are readily available. Ninja Run stacked with one of the Sprints is decently fast. For getting over rough or high terrain you have 30s boosts from Steam Jump, etc. The main problem with these travel powers is endurance use, but since you're a /Kin Transference solves you're mana issues. Plus you have powers like Siphon Speed and the option of Inertial Reduction Super Jump....

Tough choice. The +Rech from Agility hurts your proc chances as others have mentioned, but it's really difficult to turn down the +Def buff since so many of the Shield powers need defense slotting. That lets you short slot to optimize the builds, and in my build gives another roughly 3% Def, not too mention a massive +Def buff when in Hide.... Musculature also is great because of Dmg, but you often won't get the benefit of saving slots that way since many of the set bonuses you want from attack powers require 5 or 6 slot IO sets. Also curious what people think about the other Incarnate Slots?

I also was looking at slotting options and proc chances in Cross Punch and looks pretty good. With low +Rech from both slotting or Incarnate: Proc +Rech w/ Alpha Incarnate Final Proc %Chance ForceFeedback (2PPM) +Rech 0% 26.17% +Rech 19% 22.78% +Rech 96% 15.76% Dmg or -Res (3.5PPM) +Rech 0% 45.80% +Rech 19% 39.86% +Rech 96% 27.58% So if you have Punch and Kick for the 5% +Rech bonus each, plus the chance of procing FF, then Crosspunch should add a substantial amount of Rech. Rech that importantly doesn't count against proc chances...(unlike non-Global Rech...) So one example of handy slotting would be 3 x Eradication [1 x Quad, 1 x Dmg, 1 x Dmg proc] 1 x FF proc 1 x Fury of Gladaitor -Res proc That way you get 3.13 +Def E/N, 1.56 +Def Ranged, +1.8 Max End, 1 x dmg proc, 1 x FF proc, 1 x -Res proc, with +5 boosters you could also have 66% Dmg. If you can go musculature or Intuition Alpha then you'd be at 95% dmg. E

Interesting info your post, but I'm not following the math here. The "Command of the MM" ATIO for +15% Def IO is only for AOE positional defense, (leaving you exposed to Melee, Ranged...and weird attacks that don't have a positional component...). What's the 2nd ATIO buff? It seems like you might counting on a non-Superior "Command of the MM". If so, it would only be more AOE positional defense, but also you can't slot both the Superior and normal AT in the same toon.... So with /Kin you have access to: Maneuvers w/IO Enhancement 4% Pet +5% Def IO's 2 * 5%= 10% Beasts themselves are base 11% / 12% / 12% Total base 25% / 26% pet defense Beyond that you have Lion's Roar, Pack Mentality and also Incarnate powers for more Def: Lion's Roar added a 4.5% Def, which in my testing with enhancements went to 6%. So that's another 12% Def. But I found it only lasts 15s, and there's on average a 40s - 45s cool down before they cast Roar again. So not going to be able to count on that and my sense is at something like 1/4 uptime it's probably not even worth using precious Lion pet slotting on Def. Fortify Pack - Interesting idea about using Powerboost on it. Also, it can be enhanced with Def IO's. LOTG: +Rech being an obvious optimal slot use. 4 Stacks enhanced by IO and Agility incarnate looks like it will get them 21% which with their base from above is soft cap. More than 4 stacks get impressive quickly. Fortify Pack Stacks 56% Enh 70% Enh w/ Alpha Agility 70% & Powerboost 0 Stacks 5+0=5 7.8% 8.5% 11.8% 4 Stacks 5+4=9 14.0% 15.3% 21.2% 6 Stacks 5+6=11 17.2% 18.7% 25.4% 7 Stacks 5+7=12 18.7% 20.4% 30.6% 8 Stacks 5+8=13 20.3% 22.1% 30.6% 10 Stacks 5+10=15 23.4% 25.5% 35.3% But Fortify Pack has a 240s Recharge and only a 60s duration. So like Illusions PA you need around +200 Rech to make it perma. Additionally, you can only get the stacks needed for those higher buff numbers after combat has already started, and you've built stacks. So the pets have to survive the early combat without being soft capped at least long enough for you to (1) build stacks, then (2) activate Powerboost and (3) cast 'Fortify Pack.' You're probably going to need to be on teams, so someone else can take the initial Aggro and Alpha before you let your Beasts go in. Or maybe you need Incarnate Destiny Barrier +Def to open with. By the time Barrier diminishes, you'd have stacks built up... At that point maybe Powerboost isn't needed, since if you can build up 6 stacks you're soft capped without it, and it will be faster to get 'Fortify Pack' up mid battle if you don't have to 1st cast PB. Anyway, interesting theory crafting stuff. Thanks for kicking it all off! Makes Beasts seem more viable than I'd guessed... But seems like /Kin builds would need to prioritize 'Siphon Speed' to help hit that 200% Rech to keep Fortify Pack perma.

Does anyone know if teams with more than one Thugs MM still get stacking bonuses from all the Enforcers Leadership abilities (applying to each other)? This is how it used to work long ago, but definitely seems like a bug that may have been fixed by now. If not the chances to proc Gaussians would be off the charts on multiple Thugs teams...

Yeah you'd have to find a way to fit in a slot for the Gaussian's proc. The only benefit you get from pulling it, is being able to then slot into your MM effectively letting both the Enforcers and your MM have the benefit of what's supposed to a unique IO. But even when temporarily moving it you would lose the use the slot it occupies in the Enforcers...

The value of set bonuses is very specific to a build. But no the bonuses delivered from a full 6 Set of Guassian's are be no means bad if you need positional defense. Think about it this way you're spending five free slots to get +2.5 Melee, +2.5 Ranged and +2.5 Aoe def. So 5 slots gave you a total of +7.5% Def towards positional softcaps, that's a return of +1.5 Def per slot! The only sets in the game that can match that are the new Superior Event and AT sets. Now if you only need say Melee or if you need typed defense instead where Guassians is half strength at just+1.25, then sure Gaussian's maybe not so great. *Edit* Just wanted to add that the PPM (proc per minute) change is one reason 6 slotted Guassians is out of vogue. The +positional defense set bonuses are still great, but with the PPM change you can get much more use of out the Guassian's buildup proc in a power like Aim/Buildup. Reason being, is it now has a high chance of procing in those high recharge powers, and that means you get to control when you're extra buildup is proc-ed to time with your best attacks. But it will rarely be worth 6 slotting aim/buildup the way it is in Tactics.... (Tactics needs endurance reduction, which Guassian's supplies plenty of...but Aim/Buildup mostly needs +Rech which Guassian's only get's to around 73% or 89% if you +5 boost the IO's... so that's a lot of slots used to still not have full 96% ED capped +Rech....)

Impressive, but I have question after checking out your fight video: How are you allowed to use the 1hr Winter Ward dmg boosts and temp Fly during a 'Master of' TF? I thought "Master of" was supposed to disable all temp powers? I'm guessing it's a glitch where so many new powers have been added to the game that a bunch of them aren't coded into the 'Master of' TF settings. Either way you achieved the challenge of doing the ITF with no temp pets. As for Fly you're build could easily swap Combat Jumping for Hover and while slower it would keep your Def stats the same and would actually save you Endurance. But there's no way to get the extra Dmg you're getting from the temp 1hr Winter Ward. Maybe you could still do it without that damage, just a lot slower? Anyway, impressive stuff. I managed to solo the ITF on some test runs recently once with a Crab and once with Dark Control Dominator. I didn't use temp powers, but I had very difficult time finishing the AV fights and was only set to +0/+8 on the Crab and +1/+8 on the Dom. I don't think I would have had the DPS to finish at +4, with the Nictus Healing off all my pets... But you inspired me to try tweaking builds some more to see what's possible.

I think one of the reasons you don't see leveling builds is because their much more complex to make. In the extreme a leveling build is 49 separate builds. What's best at one level, immediately changes when you get new set defining powers. For instance it's often that case that efficiently leveling up you may have needed power X, but once you get access to power Y, you'd be much better off having power X's slots used elsewhere. Attuned IO's immensely improve the leveling experience though. By 20 or 30 you can buy some Attuned IO's that you'll be able to use all the up until you respec into a final build.

That's exactly what we're doing. We're just taking away limbs like arms and legs, until he's old enough to know not to hit people and gets a job, so he has his own money for the medical costs of having the limbs reattached.

If nothing it makes a great mule slot for the Preventative Medicine Chance for +Absorb proc. But yeah the +Regen potential from a full Soul Absorption Stacked with Spirit is impressive, like a lightweight pbaoe DrainPsyche.