Rudra

Let's take a look at these hypothetical MMs. For this example, I am going to use Ninjas/Dark Miasma. Assuming the exemplared and not exemplared MMs chose the same powers and slotted the same way, we get this: Level 13 MM Level 50 Exemplared MM with Legacy Pre-Revamp Build Call Genin: 6 slots Call Genin: 6 slots Twilight Grasp: 2 slots Twilight Grasp: 6 slots (Going for the ToHit debuff + heals like I did with my MM) Aimed Shot: 2 slots Aimed Shot: 5 slots Tar Patch: 1 slot Tar Patch: 3 slots Train Ninjas: 1 slot Train Ninjas: 1 slot Darkest Night: 3 slots Darkest Night: 3 slots Fistful of Arrows: 2 slots Fistful of Arrows: 4 slots Call Jounin: 3 slots Call Jounin: 6 slots Howling Twilight: 5 slots Shadowfall: 6 slots Maneuvers: 3 slots That is just the powers the exemplared MM has. That is not taking into account the rest of the powers that may or may not have sets that grant bonuses as far down as level 13. Assuming the level 13 has SOs slotted in every power, the level 13 is still outclassed by the exemplared MM. Now, you can play around with the slots all you like, but that level 13 MM only gets 2 enhancement slots every odd level starting at level 3. So that level 13 only gets 12 added enhancement slots to assign, and those slots are limited by when they are gained and the powers the player wants to slot them in are gained. The level 50 MM has 38 added enhancement slots from original placement while leveling just in the powers the exemplared MM has access to for being exemplared down to level 13. So yes, the level 13 MM is outclassed by the exemplared MM even with enhancement bonus reduction in effect.

Parity for what? Assuming the level 50 MM exemplared down to level 13, the exemplared MM still has 50 levels worth of enhancements compared to the not exemplared MM's 13 levels of enhancements. The exemplared MM still has 18 levels worth of powers as compared to the not exemplared MM's 13 levels of powers. The exemplared MM still has full use of set bonuses from Hecatomb, Ragnarok, or the other purples at level 13 as compared to the not exemplared MM's no purple sets because they can't be slotted until level 50. The exemplared MM probably has full suites of ATOs still giving their full set bonuses which the not exemplared MM probably does not have. And the kicker? The exemplared MM is still only facing content designed with the expectation that the character will have Training Origin enhancements slotted. Not Single Origin enhancements, Training Origin enhancements. The argument is: because now all characters can have SOs at all levels (which was power creep when requested), all characters need to retain the equivalency of SOs at all levels. Which is false. As provided in the linked Exemplar Effects On Enhancements, exemplared characters are subject to degraded enhancement bonuses to provide balance against the not exemplared lower level characters. The devs say so on the page explaining the system. (Edit again: And that is with the consideration that the lower level character is using SOs. So even with the lower level character using SOs, the scaling is still meant to provide parity.) So the argument is to throw out what balance is still retained. So what parity are you talking about? The scaling is designed for parity. Because as stated by the devs on the explanation page, exemplared characters still have the advantage while exemplared down, so enhancement reduction is applied to provide parity. And that is without adding in things like retained set bonuses while exemplared. Edit: Also, your argument is appropriate to a MM pet suggestion thread because MMs deal with that regardless of exemplared or not. Yes, MM pets suffer level penalties making it harder to keep them alive and harder for them to hit targets as the MM levels and gets more pets of that tier. And that was done with game balance in mind as well. That is not a "the MM exemplared down" issue, that is a "I'm playing a MM" issue. Edit yet again: Besides, as @Arbegla pointed out, the exemplared MM only has any additional tier pets the level shifts afford, not any extra tier of pets. So the exemplared MM and the not exemplared MM have the same number of pets per tier, but the exemplared MM gets their tier 3 pet while the not exemplared character does not. Which is why I routinely have more pets while exemplared than I did while leveling up.

Not at low levels it isn't. At the lowest levels, it is balanced around TOs. Then as you get higher in level, it is balanced around DOs. Then when you get high enough in level, it is balanced around SOs. SOs used to not be availalbe until fairly late in the game. So content where SOs did not exist at the time are not balanced around SOs. They are balanced around TOs or DOs. Edit: Hence the repeated comments that the game was not made more difficult to match being able to slot SOs earlier than before.

Even with that being true, you have yet to explain what problem this fix solves. No exemplared character that I know of struggles to do any exemplared content. You still have more enhancements available regardless of what level you exemplar to. You still get your set bonuses if you don't exemplar more than 3 levels below them. You still get the set bonuses of the very rare enhancement sets regardless of what level you exemplar to, which are way powerful set bonuses. You still get the set bonuses of any PvP IO sets you slot regardless of what level you exemplar to as well. ATOs grant their set bonuses as far down as level 7 and Ouroboros won't exemplar you below level 9. If you team with someone lower level than that, you still get all your enhancement slots plus 5 levels worth of powers. What is this fix supposed to fix? You have yet to answer that beyond "well, it doesn't seem fair that my level 50 is doing less damage from enhancement bonuses than the at level lower level character". Which is only true if you exemplar below level 32. And even at that, dual effect, triple effect, and quaternary effect enhancements are not subject to the exemplar degradation until their listed bonus is higher than the exemplar system says it should be, so those don't degrade until some time potentially well below level 32. What is the OP supposed to fix? What can you not do or are struggling to do because you are exemplared? Edit: From the exemplar system page: Due to Step 1, you can use up to level 25 Dual-Aspect IOs, level 43 Tri-Aspect IOs, and level 50 Quad-Aspect IOs and suffer no bonus reduction unless you Exemplar to level 20 or lower. (Those breakpoints are only accurate for Schedule A benefits. Schedule B's are higher, C's and D's are lower.)

You're joking. I've exemplared my MMs frequently. If you get the third pet at level 18, and you exemplar down to level 13, you still get the 3rd pet, which the level 13 MM doesn't have. I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that if the +5 levels would put you at a point where the T1 or T2 pet power would have more pets? You get the more pets. I routinely have more pets while exemplared than I did at level. And the pets don't perform worse because they are exemplared down either. They still get the benefits of their slotted enhancements, which they can have more of than the at level MM on their pets depending on what they exemplar down to. (Edit: On top of the greater number of pets.) Your argument still fails.

Why? The exemplared 50 still has +5 levels of powers (so 2 or 3 powers the at level low level character does not get access to depending on level), all of their enhancement slots earned up through level 50 still granting enhancement bonuses, and all their set bonuses depending on slotted sets and exemplared level. (Remember that purple IO sets always give their set bonuses even if you exemplar down to level 1. So do PvP sets.) The missions were not made more difficult to account for everyone being able to slot SOs out the gate if they can get their hands on them. The exemplared 50 isn't struggling to do the lower level content or at any increased risk while doing the lower level content. And I have yet to see an exemplared character get out-performed by an at level character. So as far as I can tell, @Luminara is right about the OP. Edit: From the homecoming explanation about the exemplar system. Note that I did not highlight anything. It was already highlighted on the page. The system degrades the character's Enhancements, even in cases where a character would already have six SOs or comparable IOs in the power in question at the lower, Exemplared level. This is an attempt to balance the fact that the character will have more slots overall. For example, a level 26 Storm Summoning Defender cannot have more than one slot in Tornado, but he can have six slots in Steamy Mist. A level 50 Storm Defender who's Exemplared to 26 can have six slots in both. His Tornado will be stronger than the naturally 26 Defender's, but his Steamy Mist will be weaker. https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Exemplar_Effects_on_Enhancements

Well, that was a dumb change. However, I sit corrected.

A damage buff and an accuracy buff are not the same thing. Edit: A +ToHit has absolutely no effect on a power's damage output. It does not matter what grants that +ToHit, it will never affect damage. It only affects your chance to hit. (Edit again: Aim grants both a 50% ToHit buff and a 62.5% damage buff.)

What? No, you can't. If the underlying game engine cannot support something, you need to use a better game engine. Which requires the entire game to be recoded to work with the new engine. (Edit: That is why you see older games still using outdated graphics and old mechanics. They would need to be completely rewritten to make use of a new game engine to bring them up to date. That is also why some games are delayed in their development. They started with an older game engine, then swapped over to a newer game engine and had to recode all their previous work to utilize the newer engine.) Edit again: Think of games as an app designed to work on a specific system, like an iphone. Then you try to utilize a different system on which to code the app, like trying to change over to an android. The coding architecture is different, so the app has to be rewritten to make use of how the supporting architecture works.

Just because we have the source code doesn't mean the game engine itself can handle a requested change.

You're joking, right? (Edit: Aim and its other derivatives improve the damage of all attacks made within its duration. Even if the attack's animation goes outside of the buff's duration. It works just as well on normal form snipes as it does quick form snipes. I have seen nothing in City of Data or in the game detailed info box that says otherwise. The only reason why it would not affect a power within its duration is if that power was already functioning at the AT's damage cap.)

This assumes you are not already in combat and using the normal form snipe rather than the quick form snipe. With a fairly fast snipe at 1.33 seconds of cast time (1.584 with arcanatime) and 2 seconds of interrupt time before that for 3.33 seconds, plus human motor time of triggering Aim and the time moving the mouse to click the snipe (or the finger to hit the linked button for the snipe attack), and then the time either waiting for the mobs to go "Buh-wha?" and move into normal attack range or you going "damn, missed" and moving into normal attack range, you'll get maybe one more attack in. (I'm not looking at how much of an accuracy boost Aim gives, or how much of a damage boost it gives that you did not include. I'm looking at how using the power can be considered "wasted" because you missed with your only usable attack at the time when using a max range snipe.) Then I'm playing a bugged game. Because when I have 3 tide counters and I trigger Dehydrate or Geyser and they miss, the counters still go away because they triggered the enhanced version of the attack. In fact, the only tide counter enhanced power that doesn't suffer this is Whirlpool because it is a targeted area effect that remains in place for a set duration, so it can't technically miss since you are targeting a location when you fire it. (Edit again: And if you aren't losing the counters somehow, then why are you complaining about the miss?) It also doesn't matter if there are better T5 or T6 attacks. You can't compare a singular power like that. Especially since yes, some power sets are going to be stronger than others. So that argument is a tosser too. Water Blast is not the only blast set that lacks Aim. Nor is it the only blast set that lacks a snipe. It is the only blast set with Tidal Counters, and those counters only apply to four powers in the set for use. Like the combo system in Street Justice. You have four powers that count as "finisher moves" in the Water Blast set. (Not surprising since I believe the sets came out at the same time.) Those four powers have enhanced forms that actually function like Street Justice's finishers, but also have normal use forms that can build up the Tidal Counters. Water Jet is comparable to other non-snipe attacks in its tier when you add in END cost, animation time, recharge time, damage, and secondary effects. It may not be the best power in the comparisons, but it is comparable. If you don't like the power and don't want to use it? That's fine. No one is going to force you to use it or make fun of you for not using it. Play however you want. However, that doesn't mean it needs to be changed just because you don't like the power. Edit: Also your chain is wrong. It would go: Have 3 counters, trigger Water Jet. Deplete counters. On hit, do enhanced cast and immediately get to trigger Water Jet again for normal damage. Follow with other attack. Have 3 counters, trigger Water Jet. Deplete counters. On miss, follow with other attack. Have 3 counters, trigger Water Jet. If enhanced form is locked, use normal form and on hit, add counter if became possible. Follow with other attack. Have 3 counters, trigger Water Jet. If enhanced form is locked, use normal form and on miss follow with other attack. Have less than 3 counters, on hit, add counter and follow with other attack. Have less than 3 counters, on miss, follow with other attack.

If the tide power counters renewed each time you triggered gaining one after getting the max three count, or even just renewed each time you triggered gaining a counter, that would be great. I have to wonder if it would be OP, but would be nice. As far as the OP itself goes though? It is provably wrong by checking City of Data. Water Jet is as powerful as any other non-snipe T7 attack. Edit: As far as Water Jet's enhanced form being locked out for 15 seconds when used? There is still the tide enhanced Dehydrate, Geyser, and Whirlpool available to make use of those counters.

You mean like how you have to hit with your max range snipe after using Aim for it or the accuracy and damage boost go away? That argument fails. All player attacks have to hit. Regardless of what you use in conjunction with it. Like Tidal Counters. Unlike Build Up or Aim though, you can get those counters back with three quick attacks. Provided they hit. The fact an attack can miss is not a good reason to change Water Jet. Edit: Especially since even without the double cast, Water Jet still seems to be more or less on par with other non-snipe T7 attacks. (It has 2 seconds faster recharge and is almost 3 END cheaper than Bitter Ice Blast. So it balances out.) Edit: Maybe Dehydrate and Geyser also need to be tweaked then? They get boosted for having 3 tide power counters too, and the counters also go away when they miss.

No it doesn't. Hydro Blast: 15.17 damage. (https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=blaster_ranged.water_blast.hydro_blast&at=blaster) Arcane Bolt: 15.17 damage (https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=pool.sorcery.arcane_bolt&at=blaster) Water Jet: 20.09 damage (https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=pets.water_blast_blaster.water_jet_normal&at=blaster) Hydro Blast inflicts a knockdown effect (Mag .67 KB) 20% of the time, and reduces the target's movement for 10 seconds. Arcane Bolt inflicts a knockdown effect (Mag .67 KB) 25% of the time. Water Jet slows the target's movement for 8 seconds and can be double cast if you have enough Tidal Counters. And if you don't have enough? It grants you a Tidal Counter. Compare to Bitter Ice Blast: 23.37 damage and slows for 12 seconds. Or Executioner's Shot: 15.211 damage and 70% chance of Mag .96 KB; modified by current ammo effect.

I was clarifying your statement about sets available at level 10. With the addition of the PvP set bonuses always being avilable regardless of level. So a level 50 exemplared down to level 1 would still enjoy all their set bonuses from the purple sets and the PvP IO sets. As compared to the level 1's nothing. Shift the scale to any exemplar level and you run into the same thing. The exemplared 50 retains all enhancement bonuses even if scaled, all PvP and purple set bonuses regardless of level, all other set bonuses as long as the exemplared character is no more than 3 levels below the IO's minimum level, and +5 levels of powers. As compared to whatever the lower level character has leveled up to and managed to slot. So I am agreeing with you, just adding more information. No, they are asking for the exemplared IO values to get boosted to match SO enhancement strength. Which as has already been pointed out multiple times, is completely unnecessary for the exemplared character to still show up the at level lower level character and clear the lower level content with ease.

Aren't all the builds the same level?

You can slot all the PvP sets at level 7. It's one of the things that makes them so valuable. Fury of the Gladiator, Gladiator's Armor, Gladiator's Javelin, Gladiator's Net, Gladiator's Strike, Javelin Volley, Panacea, and Shield Wall. And like very rare IO sets, they grant their set bonuses regardless of what level you exemplar to. https://archive.paragonwiki.com/wiki/PvP_IO_Sets So between the PvP IO sets and the very rare IO sets, you can slot your character to never lose set bonuses. Especially since the PvP IO sets are not unique.

Not if you take your new character and door sit while your farmer power levels you to 50. Then you'll have no idea if you like the character until after you get to 50. That's what I hold as the main consideration. If you play the character and you slog and you slog and you slog, you're probably not going to like the character even if you get all the way to 50. So delete it and start a new one. If you PL to 50, and then find you don't like the character, it didn't take you much time to get there, just delete it and make a new one.

The issue I have with the OP is that exemplared characters still have more enhancements than the lower level character, have more powers than the lower level character, and can already sleep their way through all the lower level content while exemplared. I don't see what the OP is supposed to fix. Edit: Is the request to make already very powerful characters even more powerful? To what end? As exemplared characters they are already more powerful than the lower level content they are exemplaring down to was designed for, and the missions have not been made more difficult by any patches.

Why? Edit: You are asking for a badge only new characters can get. This would require any badgers that want the badge to take their badge characters, delete them, and start over just to get it.

One thing I had thought of asking for that would fit your example of a super strong invulnerable character taking up and using the sword just would not be possible with the game engine. I had wanted to ask for the ability to basically make 2 characters, each of which would still need to be leveled up on their own, but would share a character name and could be swapped between mid-game as if changing a build. I have a MM character that also has a Brute build, and being able to swap between them, turning off any appropriate powers and unsummoning any pets as needed, would be ideal for that character. It would also work very well for your given example. However, I'm pretty sure that falls somewhere between absolutely impossible and stop taking whatever drugs you are on levels of difficulty given how the game works.

No, I didn't neglect it. I addressed it in that post. Though apparently not adequately enough. My take is that if you get a character to level 50, and you don't like the character and want it to be something else, just make that something else. Players are commenting regularly here in the forums about how quickly they can crank out a level 50 character from scratch. If the idea is that you have a super strong invulnerable character that picked up a magic sword from somewhere and decided to start training with it? Then you still have a super strong invulnerable character. That character just also happens to have a magic sword to use now too. My answer to that would be to ask for a new ancillary power pool that uses swords instead. Because the super strong invulnerable character doesn't forget (s)he is super strong just because (s)he is now using a sword as well or forget how to throw a super strong punch. And if the super strong invulnerable character undergoes some sort of change that makes him/her forget that (s)he is super strong and how to throw a punch, odds are that character is also going to forget the people (s)he already helped. Though they may not forget him/her, but given how the character is interacting with them as a new person they met, would likely just shrug it off and treat the character as someone new that just happens to look like someone they previously worked with.

You can already do that, sans filler missions, with Ouroboros. You can also do that by turning off xp and hitting up all the contacts on one side, then talking to Null, and hitting up all the contacts on the other side. Null doesn't care what level you are to change alignment. Adding in Praetoria into that mix requires doing its content as flashbacks, or doing the pre-level 20 red and blue arcs through Ouroboros, but it is still already doable. The only thing I really see the OP doing is giving a player the ability to make an easy to level character, get to 50, and then respec into something else entirely. Especially since the author has already admittd that (s)he can get a brand new character to 50 in only a few hours and has more than ample inf' and IO sets already on hand for that new character.

This is going to sound snarky, so apologies for that. We have a do over option. It is called rolling up a new character. Just e-mail your inf' to yourself, and anything else you want to keep if you lack a self-SG base to use for it, and make the character you want.