Rudra

The pets are already level 48 in the comparison. The MM is level 50. So that makes the T1 pets level 48. Also, here, I'll fix your math. (Edit: You neglected to account for the difference in recharge times which directly impacts DPS.) 50.6748 * 3 = 152.0244 67.7328 * 2 = 135.4656 Pets no longer do greater damage, but are still doing 89.1408% damage.

You asked for numbers comparing the T1 pets base attack against a Blaster's T1 attack. So I grabbed those numbers for you from City of Data. You are moving the goal posts. The MM's T1 pets using their basic attack compared to a Blaster's T1 attack at level 50 do 1.337x more damage. As level 48 pets. Where do I say those T1 pets will outdamage a Blaster in normal play? A Blaster gets access to 9 different powers in their primary pool, 8 of which are guaranteed attacks. Pets get up to 3 if they are fully upgraded. A Blaster can fit in nukes and other burst damage attacks as part of their attack chain. The T1 pets cannot. All that is a given and had nothing to do with your request for numbers. If you want to compare a Blaster going full bore against a boss as compared to a MM going full bore against a boss, that brings up the question of how well the MM can support the pets against the boss' attacks and whether or not the boss has any subordinates left to pull pets away from smacking him down. It also brings up the question of how the Blaster is slotted as compared to the MM. If they are both slotted for damage as their focus and the boss is the only target? I'll bet on the MM taking his/her/its target down faster than the Blaster. If the boss has any support and the MM is in BodyGuard Mode for survival? I'll bet on the Blaster. If the boss has lots of AoEs or high damage AoEs? I'll bet on the Blaster. Then you get into what are the Blaster's powers. I'll bet on a damage focused Fire Blaster to drop anything not resistant to fire faster than any MM. However, your request was for a straight comparison between the T1 pets of a MM and the T1 power of a Blaster. And I chose the powers that were most alike for usable comparison. There is your post asking for the numbers. You said that the MM's T1 pets are underperforming compared to a Blaster's level 1 attack. And using comparable powers, they are not. The MM's T1 pets are keeping pace with the Blaster's T1 attack. Doing better damage even. That is mitigated by the lower levels, but you can boost your pets accuracy just like you can boost the Blaster's attacks' accuracy.

Not true. Otherwise the female strapless top would be the same front and back. And it most definitely is not. Edit: Not unless the map is left or right side and then is mirrored. However, given the difference between front and back for several options, the map has to be more complete than just half the model's section unless the mapping is done side to side. Edit again: Also, I never said it wouldn't be a lot of work. Making a texture map, especially one that has to work across three very different character models, is a lot of work. I only said that the model does not need new definitons to make use of new texture maps and those maps could be asymmetrical. (I've never seen a texture map that was only for left or right sides and then mirrored, so my post is based on the front-back maps I am used to seeing. So are the CoX texture maps left or right side only?)

The asymmetrical patterns accessible on the Face menu's option drop down are texture maps. Just like the Tops with Skin patterns. There is no need for new body part definitions to be coded to apply model parts for those. You simply need to make new texture maps of asymmetrical design for each part of the model without model addons that you want the asymmetrical patterns for. And those new maps would need to be made three different ways to fit the current base character models. Then it would simply be a matter of adding them to the game's character creator library. However, you will still find yourself limited to a single color for the new patterns on your "with skin" options, only getting access to two colors for standard options. If you want more colors than that, then the models would need to be reworked for how the colors and maps are applied to them.

The red zone that has the sealed Dark Astoria gate? I don't know what to tell you. I see BP there during the day too. They aren't in such numbers that you can get multiple spawns to fight at once like you can in some other areas of Talos, but they are there. Or at least they were there each time I was in the area.

Well... they were more "epic" in that they were a challenge AT that the player unlocked access to by getting a blue side AT to level 50.... Agreed though that "epic" isn't meant to mean power level.

Apologies. I used the wrong Burst. Updated numbers as follows: Blaster: Assault Rifle: Burst: 1.05 accuracy, 4.0 s recharge, 5.2 END, 90' range. 16.8916 points of Lethal damage (all affected targets) every 0.3s for 0.91s (100% chance) (target = critter) -7.0% Base Defense (all affected targets) for 8s 31.9883 points of Lethal damage (all affected targets) every 0.3s for 0.61s (100% chance) after 0.3s (target = player) [MagExpr]% Damage (All) Strength (self only) for [DurExpr] Duration Expression: power.base>activatetime + 7.5 Magnitude Expression: 0.066 * power.base>activatetime / power.base>areafactor MM: Merceneries: Tier 1 pet Quick Burst: 1.05 accuracy, 3.0 s recharge, 4.368 END, 80' range. -3.75% Base Defense (all affected targets) for 5s [MagExpr] points of Lethal damage (all affected targets) every 0.3s for 0.7s (100% chance) Magnitude Expression: 5.644 * (0.033 * target.mode?(kFocusFire_Burst) + 0.033 * target.mode?(kFocusFire_M30) + 0.033 * target.mode?(kFocusFire_Slug) + 1) if target.mode?(kFocusFire_Burst) || target.mode?(kFocusFire_M30) || target.mode?(kFocusFire_Slug) -3.75% Base Defense (all affected targets) for 5s 5.6444 points of Lethal damage (all affected targets) every 0.3s for 0.7s (100% chance) So for the pets to be doing equal damage as the Blaster using their Quick Burst, each one would need to do 4.2229 damage ([16.8916 * 3] / 4= 12.6687 damage / 3 pets = 4.2229 damage per pet)) with their 3 second recharge to the Blaster's 4 second recharge. So the 3 pets combined are doing 1.337x as much damage as the Blaster. (Edit: If you prefer simpler math: Blaster does 16.8916 every 4 seconds. So 50.6748 damage every 12 seconds. Mercenary tier 1 pets do 5.6444 damage every 3 seconds. So 22.5776 every 12 seconds each. For a total of 67.7328 damage every 12 seconds combined.) Both ATs still at level 50. Both powers still unenhanced. All data still pulled from City of Data, except this time I am referencing the pet power instead of the MM power. My apologies.

Also note that MM pets are all equal in level to the MM on incarnate content. So if you are a level 50+3 MM doing incarnate content, your tier 1 pets are level 48+5, tier 2 pets are level 49+4, and tier 3 pet is 50+3. I don't know about Hard Mode content though as I haven't done any.

Numbers: Blaster Assault Rifle Burst power: 16.8916 points of Lethal damage (all affected targets) every 0.3s for 0.91s (100% chance) (target = critter) -7.0% Base Defense (all affected targets) for 8s 31.9883 points of Lethal damage (all affected targets) every 0.3s for 0.61s (100% chance) after 0.3s (target = player) [MagExpr]% Damage (All) Strength (self only) for [DurExpr] Duration Expression: power.base>activatetime + 7.5 Magnitude Expression: 0.066 * power.base>activatetime / power.base>areafactor MM Thugs Mercenaries tier 1 pet Burst power: 8.2581 points of Lethal damage (all affected targets) every 0.3s for 0.91s (100% chance) (target = critter) -7.5% Base Defense (all affected targets) for 8s 14.5384 points of Lethal damage (all affected targets) every 0.3s for 0.91s (100% chance) (target = player) Both ATs at level 50. Both powers unenhanced. All data pulled from City of Data. Powers chosen because they are shared by both.

Thugs have pets that have them, so should be possible already. Question would be incorporating jumping into it.

I meant MM pets being able to attack them. MM pets can attack spawning mobs during raids like the Rikti invasion and they can attack Freakshow while they rez. I would be fine with losing that because the mobs shared the pets brief invulnerability as proposed. (Edit: Have the pets on aggressive, and watch them tear apart spawning units and rezzing Freakshow.)

Couldn't the other SG members just give the member influence directly just like now? Or couldn't a SG "bank" put in where members can add and take influence directly if you are worried about having players with more influence on at the same time as the player that needs it?

What @Wavicle said. The struggle of managing pets, including keeping them alive, is a core part of the MM AT. Otherwise, the AT would basically never be at risk of defeat. Especially with the new pet summon recharge rates. With the near instant recharge, already fully upgraded pets would be an infinite army to just swamp the opposition with. (Edit: Especially since you can just order the expensive T3 pet to Stay at or Go To a distance behind the fight so you always have an upgraded pet 'safe' from the mayhem unless an ambush hits it from behind.) Edit again: I definitely like the window of immunity for the pets when summoned though. Even if it also applied to rezzing Freakshow and spawning mobs during raids.

Don't get me wrong. I love the hell out of Vorpal. Most entertaining judgement to see and it doesn't require a target to use. It also has some seriously long reach with a wide cone. That doesn't change the fact I've watched players on trials use it and hit nothing because they were facing the wrong way. Or see players that have a mob targeted, hit an attack followed by Vorpal only for the targeted mob to not be in line with the others and so turn the character to the side and have the follow-up Vorpal miss everything. People make mistakes. And with some practice, or at least remembering that Vorpal isn't targeted but aimed, players do well with it. (Doesn't stop the complaints I still hear on occasion though.)

The biggest complaint I hear about the Vorpal Judgement power is that it is a cone with no targets set. You face in the direction of your targets and hit it. So players can and do miss with it because targets move or they inadvertently turn prior to firing or they... *sigh* ... forget to turn to face the targets prior to firing....

When it comes to patterns, those are just texture maps. So there would need to be specifically created texture maps for the asymetrical patterns. And each pattern would be locked in what it was just like now. It's not like the gloves and boots which are separate model pieces attached to the base model. (I'd love to have more patterns to play with, and mixing and matching them would be even better, but it wouldn't be like creating a new definition to split boots and gloves.)

There have been multiple requests for this. Cross your fingers and keep asking.

That we can agree on. Especially if the MM is forced to constantly re-summon and re-upgrade their pets like they do on some very MM unfriendly missions. (Mostly TFs and SFs or trials, but some maps in regular missions are basically nightmare fuel for MMs.) However, from what I understand, the cost of the MM's personal attacks are based on the MM using his/her/its support abilities to keep the pets alive and murdering things rather than the MM himself/herself/itself using their own attacks. (The personal attacks were granted their new abilities, even if stolen from their pets, because players were clamoring for MM personal attacks to be more effective so they are more worth taking.) So, the MM's ability to keep said pets alive should also factor into the cost of the pet summons and the personal attacks. After the pets are summoned and upgraded, the expectation is the MM will devote a not insignificant amount of effort in protecting those pets. So while frustrating, the fragility is decidedly intentional. And not really a factor for the cost of the MM's personal attacks. (Edit: And as long as the MM can keep those pets alive, they are attacking at no END cost to the MM.)

What does how quickly the MM's minions can take down mobs as compared to other ATs have to do with whether or not they are considered free attacks for the MM not having to expend END to maintain those attacks? Edit: For that matter, how does the Assault Bot's -regen being moved to the Robotics MM's inherent attacks have to do with that consideration either? Edit again: Or for that matter, what does MM pet fragility have to do with that consideration? (Also, please remember that at least some MM pets can now have their resilience or defense directly boosted by the MM. See Ninjas and Robotics specifically.)

Now I'm picturing two new mobs among the Crey line up. The Field Overseer (lieutenant with battle orb summoning) and the Civic Defender (boss with cannon drone summon).

You are missing my point. I'm tired of beating my head against this wall. I'll see how the thread develops later before posting further responses.

I'm telling you what CoD says. And I place more stock in that than your claim. All I'm saying is call it what it currently is classified as and make your pitch from there. Pendulum as used on Brutes has a 5 target cap compared to the Tanker's 10 target cap with otherwise identical stats. Brutes get Pendulum as a tier 5 power as opposed to a tier 6 power for Tankers. That does not justify the loss of target cap between the two ATs. Please either increase the target cap to 10, reduce the endurance cost, or improve the recharge to compensate. Thank you. That is what I am trying to portray to you. The fact it is the same power as the Tanker's except set to figure its base damage with the Brute's Fury in mind is why the damage is lower IMO. The fact that it is the same power with different target caps at only a single tier difference is a problem in my book. Especially since other shared powers are not differentiated in this way. How you choose to classify the power (cone, TAoE, PBAoE) doesn't matter for the discussion at all. (Edit: So insisting on calling it something other than what it is classified as detracts from your argument.)

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=brute_melee.battle_axe.pendulum&at=brute https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=brute_melee.battle_axe.taunt&at=brute It is a radius effect. Not a cone. You cannot declare something to effectively be a cone just because you think it doesn't hit enough targets. Taunt has a wider radius and still only hits 5 targets. Up to 70 feet away. Are you going to call that a cone because it only hits 5 targets too? Make your case for improving Pendulum, but deciding to call it a cone because you think AoE of any sort other than a cone hits 10+ targets is hurting your argument. (Edit: Though I do grant cone attacks are built the same.)

According to CoD, Pendulum is a melee TAoE power with up to 5 targets. (Edit: 10 for tankers. The rest of the statement is all Tanker data because I didn't see any other Brute TAoEs that weren't Taunt.) Taunt is a ranged TAoE with a max of 5 targets. Touch of Fear is a melee TAoE with a max of (some script) targets. Fault is a close TAoE with a listed max of 0 targets for some reason.... Spinning Strike is a melee TAoE that also has a script number of targets rather than a locked number. So AoE =/= 10+ targets. (Edit again: Though IMO, the difference in Pendulum between Brutes and Tankers just further illustrates Tankers being favored over Brutes by the devs.)

Most Praetorian lab maps are intentionally empty. Some of the maps were apparently made for the empty spaces to be filled with Clockwork in storage and got used for other missions as well. Those same Clockwork attack you because they are active, but having other things clutter the nice, pristine, "orderly" Clockwork storage is against the theme of Praetoria. The Praetorians tend to hide their clutter. Yes, there should be some storage shelves and some work desks on the maps, but they are basically empty because the Praetorian presentation is sterile. Overly sanitized. You can see pretty much the same thing in the Praetorian office maps. Their office maps are much more sensible to me than the regular office maps, but they can be considered empty compared to the regular office maps because Praetoria is all about control and appearance. Even the Praetorian sewers are amazingly clean. Because it is all about the glitter, and the rot is hidden. And because it is all about a sterile and orderly appearance, the work is hidden. (Yes though, I would be fine with the Praetorian lab maps having some shelves or work desks in some of the areas. Even if those spaces are meant as Clockwork storage areas. Having a computer desk means you have the means of processing the Clockwork's data prior to shipping. And with mob placement on the maps, you can fit the shelves or computer desks along the walls without causing issues, I think.) (Edit: I also find it funny that you thumbs down anyone trying to explain the maps to you.)