Rudra

I grabbed Plasmatic Taser to look at it. Plasmatic Taser: As used by a level 50 Blaster Average Damage:102.81 Damage Per Activation Time:96.08 Damage Per Cast Cycle:7.87 Activation Time:1.07s Recharge Time:12.00s Endurance Cost:14.82 Accuracy:1.00X Fistful of Arrows: MM primary attack as used by my MM at level 50. Average Damage:52.86 Damage Per Activation Time:45.18 Damage Per Cast Cycle:10.91 Activation Time:1.17s Recharge Time:3.68s Endurance Cost:8.01 Accuracy:1.84X Available Level:8 They are both cone attacks. Both at level 50. The innate Fistful of Arrows has the higher damage per cast cycle, much better recharge, better END cost. and way better accuracy. Taser is the faster attack with its activation time. And I only have Fistful of Arrows 4-slotted. (I can't get Plasmatic Taser on that MM because that MM is on an ITF with a friend. And she can only play 2 days a week. And my other remaining MMs are not yet 50.) We're obviously not going to convince each other though. So sure. We agree to disagree.

I don't know about other people's builds for MMs. I don't really care how other people slot their MMs. I don't even care if the END cost for MM powers is reduced. It won't hinder me at all. I always slot my MM's innate attacks. Ranged attacks typically do less damage than melee ones, so of course I expect the melee attacks in the OP to outdamage them. The claim that MMs can't even clear a spawn of green minions without crashing their END reserve and the claim that MM innate attacks are too under-powered compared to temp powers is what is getting me. Even with no enhancements, I have never played an MM that ran out of END taking down white con minions, let alone green. Until I see an MM unable to take down -2 minions, I will hold those comments to be garbage. What is so uncivil about the comment? I didn't say anything about you personally, I said that claim is pure garbage. And I showed why. Your comment was that even after accounting for enhancements on the MM's attacks, they could not compete with temp powers. And they obviously can. It's not just accuracy that makes or breaks a power. Not even. You have to look at the power in its entirety if you are going to make comparisons. I don't have a Thugs MM any more. Didn't like the set. Will probably try it again later to see if changing other elements makes me more inclined to keep playing them. Otherwise, I would take the Thugs innate attacks, find the most comparable temp power I can, and run a comparison between them. I've never respecced my MMs unless a new enhancement set was released that I thought would be of more use. Neither will I run +4/x8 missions on my MMs. The slog of clearing the missions is way more than I am willing to deal with. So let's sum up here. You build your MMs however you want. I don't care how you build or play them. I don't care if MM innate attacks get their END cost reduced. I care about the fact that easily disproven claims are being made about MMs.

Aimed Shot is 5-slotted. I treat my MM's innate attacks the same as I treat all the other AT's attacks. My MMs have 6 attacks that are slotted as attacks. 3 just happen to be pets. Temp powers cannot be slotted. The argument that got me to do this was Riverdusk's quoted statement, which is pure garbage. Aimed Shot: As used by a level 50 Blaster with no enhancements of any kind slotted anywhere on the character. Average Damage:82.58 Damage Per Activation Time:49.45 Damage Per Cast Cycle:10.77 Activation Time:1.67s Recharge Time:6.00s Endurance Cost:5.20 Accuracy:1.15X Bow and Arrow: Temp power attack as available on my MM at level 50. Average Damage:175.63 Damage Per Activation Time:105.17 Damage Per Cast Cycle:18.16 Activation Time:1.67s Recharge Time:8.00s Endurance Cost:10.66 Accuracy:1.15X Uh oh. Looks like Blasters need a buff too. The Bow and Arrow temp power blows the Blaster's unenhanced Aimed Shot completely out of the water. So what metric do you really want to use for MMs?

The difference is that existing Alpha powers can supplement how you enhance your powers. Having an Alpha slot that converts KB to KD does not supplement anything. It replaces the existing enhancement sets that exist for that purpose. So, no.

I'm all for this. Any time a team works together to get something done, the entire team should get credit for any badge associated with what was done. This includes any mission badges where only the mission holder gets credit. Why is only the mission holder getting credit when the team is doing the mission? (I think this is only relevant to some missions in Dark Astoria though.) Basically, team does something, entire team should get credit, regardless of task involved.

That takes away from the enhancements. No.

Fistful of Arrows: MM primary attack as used by my MM at level 50. Average Damage:52.86 Damage Per Activation Time:45.18 Damage Per Cast Cycle:10.91 Activation Time:1.17s Recharge Time:3.68s Endurance Cost:8.01 Accuracy:1.84X Available Level:8 That is copied and pasted straight out of the game. For comparison to your Plasmatic Taser. Something a bit easier for me to compare since I have them: Aimed Shot: MM primary attack as used at level 50. Average Damage:58.09 Damage Per Activation Time:58.09 Damage Per Cast Cycle:20.46 Activation Time:1.00s Recharge Time:1.84s Endurance Cost:4.88 Accuracy:1.84X Available Level:2 Bow and Arrow: Temp power attack as available on my MM at level 50. Average Damage:175.63 Damage Per Activation Time:105.17 Damage Per Cast Cycle:18.16 Activation Time:1.67s Recharge Time:8.00s Endurance Cost:10.66 Accuracy:1.15X The MM's innate attack does more damage per cast cycle, is faster on the attack with its activation time, has significantly better accuracy, almost half the END cost, and less than 1/4 the recharge. I'm not sold that temp powers are better than MM primary innate attacks. Edit: And the funny part is? Aimed Shot is listed as a light damage attack to Bow and Arrow's moderate damage, but hits harder per cycle. And since I can get 4 Aimed Shots in per Bow and Arrow, I'm doing approximately 232 damage with my "moderate damage" attack as listed on the OP to the closest temp power's 175.63. And if you want to cite using attack chains? Then I'll go back and add in Snap Shot to the cycle too.

Then what would you make for the Mutation Blast or Natural Blast sets? (Edit: The reason why the power sets are as generic as the devs could manage is so they work with all the origins. Even the weapons and devices sets can be magical devices/weapons.)

It's not the powers they throw at you that come into play. It would be the resists and HP. The background mechanics. The main thing I look at for considering how well mobs can deal with player powers is how easily I can waffle stomp a mission in Ouroboros compared to running it at level. There are 3 variables to account for in doing that: available powers while exemplared as compared to at level, available enhancements as compared to at level, and available set bonuses as compared to at level. I'll be honest: I have no means of measuring those independently and can only run off my perceptions of doing the content. And my perception is that the content is significantly easier when done exemplared than at level. This would seem to be further validated by the comments I'm still occasionally given of I should just get to 50 and then go back and do the content. Since I use my other characters, gained reward merits, and random drop rewards to fund my characters' progression with attuned IOs, the two biggest changes between being exemplared to the mission and being at level are the available powers and the set bonuses. Since I can stomp missions at a higher difficulty level while exemplared as opposed to the standard difficulty I have to play on until I get to that point, it looks to me like it is the additional powers that make the biggest difference. Particularly having access to the higher tier powers.

*looks at @Troo's emoji response to my previous post* See? They serve a purpose.

Magic attacks are covered by the magic origin in use with any power set in the game. Rune combat auras if you prefer a more mystic appearance.

The problem with "if you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all" is that too often simply disagreeing with a post is taken as saying something not nice. Emotes/emojis are going to be used however people want. The aggressiveness or lack thereof with any emoji is highly subjective. Just like the aggressiveness or lack thereof when someone tries to explain their support for or opposition to any given post. I'm against the OP. Even in the feedback rules provided for the forum, we are told we can disagree with a post and not have to give a reason for it. I would prefer the reason be given, it makes it more feasible for me to understand where another is coming from, but still does not mean it is required. Let people have the thumbs down and confused emojis. Feedback should not be limited to thumbs up I agree or silence (which more signals lack of concern/interest than disagreement).

I disagree. If you have the toggles on, you obviously have the shield ready. It sits on your arm. If you have the toggles off, the shield sits on your back. Yeah, that would be a problem. You don't carry a weapon and shield on your back for obvious reasons. Though in comics and anime they do despite how it prevents the use of the weapon by trapping it under the shield.

There is even a wealth of historical precedent for it. In medieval Europe, shields were typically carried on the back with straps and then slid into place for combat. Outside of history, in comics and anime, the back is still where shields were often carried. So yeah, sounds like a good idea to me!

I like that! Make him mostly retired, available to join the fight if needed, but mostly just acting as an advisor. Edit: Maybe even be the primary advisor for any Battalion/Hamidon related content.

I have never and will never make a petless MM. However, there are ample times when I have my MM fight without pets. And against basic non-boss spawns? I have never had the problems I hear about on the forums about MM innate attacks (rather than pet attacks) being useless for lack of damage. It may take my MM an extra hit to drop a mob from the spawn, but oh well. (Edit: And those spawns are white or yellow, never less. So no, I don't understand the problem.) And I'm always firing my MM's innate attacks even when I have my pets out, alternating between attacks and support to keep my pets alive. Yes, this is probably a case of just because I don't see the problem does not mean the problem does not exist, but I have (or have had) MMs of every type and not one has/had this problem. (Though I am definitely not a fan of Beast Mastery's MM innate attacks or lack of range on pets.) Edit again: For clarification? My MMs never run out of END unless a Sapper tags me or a Carnie hits me with an END drain Mask attack. At low levels I'll only be using my pets, a single innate attack, 1 Leadership power, and my secondary toggle; but using those (while attacking with that 1 innate attack) and using my secondary to support my pet(s), I never run out of END. As I get more enhancements slotted, I run full Leadership, Fight pool, secondary toggles, my Patron or ancillary defense toggle, all three innate attacks, and my support powers like heals without any fear of running out of END. And I'm not slotting for END any more than I do for all my other characters (which is still a primary concern in my slotting, just not my main concern).

Then my recommendation would be to allow players to not wait out the timer even when switching characters. When logging off in a base or Pocket D, there is no wait even when switching characters. So obviously there is no need for the wait except to force characters that may try to log off during combat to still face the dangers of combat. The character can stay on as normal subject to mob damage as applicable while still allowing the player to log on another character.

That is what I was asking about. Why should that be biased to the start of the game when enemies are weakest rather than mid to late game where it becomes more important?

Why should MM pet effects be biased to the start of the game when enemies are weakest?

Unless logging off works differently in those locations, you don't have to wait for the timer to hit 0.

The damage is still variable, just not broken up into DoTs that may or may not trigger to deal damage.

I disagree. My current primary character is an Energy Blast/Energy Manipulation Blaster, and is chewing up the opposition. I'm slotting for damage, but still outperforming my other ranged characters. (Edit: I just wish my KB triggered more often. It's not really triggering in most fights.) (Edit again: I'm trying to see if I can pump up the character's damage through enhancements and set bonuses to drop white con minions in a single hit with my fast snipe. I've already managed it a couple of times, but it is inconsistent at best.)

Yes. Remove the +5 levels of power while exemplared. That would go a long way to making exemplared characters actually part of any non-exemplared team they may join. They still get all their enhancements since those slots don't retain any level tracking. And they still get the benefit of their sets unless they exemplared to more than 3 levels below the set's minimum level. Yes, but only for under level 50 content and teams, though I have no delusions about anything incarnate being reigned in. As long as the +5 levels while exemplared is in effect, having access to Judgements, Lore pets, active & passive incarnate buffs and the ability to inflict passive incarnate debuffs while level 45 is ridiculous. Take away the +5 levels of power availability while exemplared? And my opinion changes to "no". Having access to your incarnate powers while at level 50 is perfectly fine. If you are level 49 or less? You should not have access to your incarnate abilities. What about temp powers? What bearing do they have on any part of this discussion? Appropriateness: When game content is designed to handle available powers with expected available enhancement slots at a given level of character progression. So using powers at the level originally coded or higher would be appropriate because the enemies are designed with the expectation that those powers will be used against them. As opposed to inappropriateness such as expecting mobs that are designed with lower level powers and more limited numbers of enhancements to be any challenge for higher level powers. As has already been said, by me at least, flashback content is a good example of how using higher level powers than the missions/arcs were designed for makes those missions/arcs far easier than normal. And with higher tier powers being made available even earlier, with no known adjustments to the mobs to deal with it, that situation gets even further amplified. And yes, those exemplared down powers do damage appropriate for the level they are being used at. And they still skew the missions/arcs. There is a reason why when people find out I play at level in the game, I get told to level up to 50 first and then go back and play the arcs. Because clearing missions/arcs while exemplared down with the +5 levels is already easier than playing through the missions/arcs at level. So lowering the levels of priority acquisition powers further skews the game balance.

The ability to team with anyone at any level was always about being able to work together and pool your abilities to achieve a goal and have fun as a team doing so. (Emphasis on the have fun part.) Once upon a time, teaming was necessary to clear several missions. Not even counting the multiple glowies that must be clicked simultaneously bit, AVs were always AVs and equal level EBs were TOUGH. There was a reason to team. There was definitely a need to team for those missions in particular. EBs are a joke to most players now. Hells, EBs used to only have the 2 level shifts every boss got. Now they're 3. Players keep screaming for powers to be made inherent so that they can enjoy having those powers without having to use a power slot for it (in the name of quality of life of course), for existing powers to have added effects (in the name of quality of life of course), and for high end powers to be available at lower levels (in the name of quality of life of course). And as the game gets easier and easier, they then turn around and call for higher difficulty content, followed soon after by calls for changes to make it easier for them to clear that more difficult content (in the name of quality of life, of course). So the answer to the OP's titular question? Is changing the power levels power creep? Absolutely. Hells, it's not even creep, it's a full on mad dash. Those that want their nukes at level 26 (or level 1) will find out that the mobs at those levels are not suited to dealing with those tier powers so soon. (Which is already apparent to those that go back and do that content as a flashback.) Which may actually be the point of the request. When players have access to higher tier powers than the people they are playing with and are solo clearing the maps while the rest of the team is trying to find some way of contributing beyond aggro magnet to keep more mobs in range of Superman/Superwoman, interest is lost. When a game gets too easy, people stop playing it. Of course players can keep choosing the lowered level powers at the previous levels. That just means those players will not be able to contribute to teams that have players using their T9s at level whatever (1 if some people get their wish), even when they are the same level progressing up to 50. ("Why didn't you take your nuke? It's your best power and already available to you! What? Who cares if it used to be a level 32 power. Don't you know how to play the game?") I've already been told by players that joined me while I was solo to clear an EB I couldn't handle that I was playing wrong. And in their "mercy and generosity", offered to power level me to 50 so I would have the higher level powers to deal with the content I wanted to play at level. And this was on LIVE, not even on HC yet. (My first level 50 on Live? Was because I was told by almost everyone I knew that I was playing wrong since I hadn't managed to get a character to 50 yet and was cajoled into door sitting through a weekend power leveling session on double xp weekend.) The game already has a two-tiered player system. (Three depending on how you look at it.) The players that min-max their builds and eke out every bit of efficiency and power they can as if the game were some engineering project to be maximized (often power levelers), and the players that try to play the game with the resources they get and don't bother trying to figure out their combat effectiveness and probabilities to the umpteenth decimal point. I've actually been told by people in this forum that they would help me build a better character because most of my characters can't handle +4/x8. I won't accept. Why? Because from previous experience with players offering such sage advice? I must use specific powers from a specific primary and a specific secondary depending on the AT with these exact numbers of enhancement slots each using these specific enhancements. Everything else is a waste of time. And now those highly sought after powers are going to be available sooner. How long before players that aren't taking their nukes or other high end powers are simply booted from teams, particularly TFs, SFs, and trials because they're too 'incompetent' to grab the powers at their lowered levels? So sure! We can keep selecting them at original level. And hopefully only get lectured in the name of making us "better players" rather than ostracized and kicked for not being helpful. Players already get kicked for daring to play Energy Blast. That is, of course, assuming being an ineffective member of the team isn't so depressing that those players just up and quit. (Or give up and jump on the Easytown Bandwagon.) Getting off my soap box now. (Not going away, just ending this very long-winded post.)

Your comment argues against itself. The whole team up with anyone at any time thing that Super Sidekicking encourages is shot to hell when the response to god tier characters making low tier heroes superfluous is to not team with those players/characters. What happened to 'team with anyone at any time' when the response is either be useless or don't team with those other players, including when they are friends you want to spend time with? Do I now have to tell my friends what characters they are allowed to use when we play together? Or what builds those characters are allowed to have to team with me? I won't do it. Exemplaring was a good thing to put in the game. Exemplaring while retaining all your enhancements and up to +5 levels of powers was the bad idea. Now we're looking at exemplaring with all your enhancements, +5 levels of powers, and the high tier powers are available at levels they were never meant to be used at against foes that have no means of dealing with them. So a bad situation is made worse. I'm already loathe to ask for help when I'm up against a +2 or +3 EB I can't fight while solo because the game won't or can't spawn the EBs at the mission level. Too often getting help results in me feeling like Office Worker A as Superman comes crashing in to... say change the printer cartridge. It's like "That was my job, and Superman had to come do it for me. Maybe I need to find a different line of work." It's not fun to be saved by another. It is even less fun to be unable to contribute meaningfully when you're supposed to also be a super. And the response is just don't team with them? Just tell my friends who only play their maxed out characters "Sorry, my characters that I prefer playing are all low to mid level and I don't want to feel useless, so I'm not going to play with you."?