Neiska

Speaking purely for myself, I cannot recall any game where the PVP crowd was 100% happy. If there are examples of a healthy, thriving, vibrant PVP community, I would be curious as to what some examples might be. And I always hated games that tweaked PvE mechanics or abilities for PVP reasons, and vice versa. I am not saying they should be seprated or the same in CoH or any other game, there are far wiser heads than mine who could run those numbers. I just hated when they change one aspect of the game for the sake of another, when supposedly they were seperate systems or not related to one another.

@RageusQuitus - to the OP, I think the discussion has gotten a bit off topic. People cant seem to agree on PvP in general, or why some people aren't interested in it. But there are likely players out there willing to give PvP a try, you just have to find and get your message to them. That said however, please understand that there are players out there that want no part of PvP as it is in its current form. As far as me personally? Well, there really is nothing you can do yourself that would make me interested in PvP in CoH. If they added tools or any sort of controls/system to it along with a league or ranking system, I might be tempted. What would be important to me would be that it would be by choice. It would have to be so that I willfully entered PvP at a time of my choosing, and that it wasnt thrusted or forced upon me. (I hasten to add that I am not saying that it currently is. I am not on a pvp server, and I don't enter pvp areas.) But in no way will I ever be interested in "open world" PVP where people can and do gank and harrass other players, which would inhibit my own enjoyment of the game. If the entire game was like that, I would uninstall and move onto something else entirely. I don't "gank" people. I would get zero enjoyment out of attacking a person lower level than me. It would'nt be challenging, or even fun. I could slay this player with a single attack and there wasnt anything they could do about it, and it would not take any measure of skill. Nor would I have any interest in suddenly fighting a player while on a mission and so on. I would find getting ganked by an entire team of people even less enjoyable. I might be interested in an arena or dueling scenerio, where pvp was expected and agreed upon. But I personally take a pretty dim view of the open world ganking style of PVP. They had it in another game I wont mention. I did not enjoy it in the slightest. And in such an enviroment where players could attack each other without controls, well, I never once had a PVP fight that "fair" or "equal". It likely didn't even come down to skill. Any player of the opposite faction that I came across, we didnt "duke it out". We mostly ignored each other, sometimes even helping one another in some cases. Most players in the area were just trying to quest, and along would come this ??? level player, swooping down out of the sky to one shot you and dance on your corpse. And this might persist. For hours. And no amount of "git gud" could prevent that, and there were no tools to make it stop aside from the "log out" button. I don't know what sort of person it takes to find that fun, or enjoyable, or would even pay money to be in such a situation. The biggest thing stopping me from being interested, is the possibility of griefers and gankers. I am not willing to be in such a position, and will not allow myself to be put into such a position. And to my limited knowledge, there are no tools available for such a situation. My only options would be to use the teleport to base macro, and then put them on ignore if things got heated and I didnt wish to communicate with them, and simply try to finish the task I was doing at another time. And thats not really an option at all. Heck, I am not even sure if the teleport macro works in PvP zones. It wouldn't suprise me in the least if it didn't. TLDR - To your orginal question, "what would make me personally interested to try it?" It really depends on the kind of PVP you mean. If you mean an arena? Mabye, if there are tools and controls. Open world PVP? That would be a hard, HARD "No thank you" from me. To me, thats not PVP, or even dueling. Thats ganking/griefing/trolling.

@The_Warpact - Agreed, but I would like to perhaps give you another angle that you may not have considered. Some people, have quite stressful lives and play games to unwind or relax, and don't do it for more excitement. In my own real life work, its competitive. That's why I quit high end raiding in other games. Some people just want to kick back after a long day at work with an adult beverage, and just enjoy their own personal preferred kind of gameplay. As far as being emotional goes, well, I would certainly classify "smack talking" as an emotionally driven response as well, which certainly is a thing in PVP. And for the record, I do hope the OP succeeds too. More friends for everyone is a good thing in my book. And while you didn't cite me personally, you did insinuate that people who don't enjoy PVP can be that, which does include myself. So even while its not a game activity I enjoy myself, I can still support those that do. But a part of that is proving peoples assumptions wrong too. I've seen many duelers/pvpers who still acted with a sense of respect and decorum. So no, they aren't all bad. But suggesting that all Non-pvpers are those things, are just as bad as calling Pvpers griefers/trolls/toxic and so on. So lets have both sides do each other the favor and not label one another? So lets not suggest "All PVPers are X" or "All Non-pvpers are Y" and so on, yes? Because that sort of thought is limiting, restrictive, and insulting in some cases, and is hardly productive. So live and let live, yes?

With respect Warpact, those are pretty big words considering your previous statement. While you are right, it can "go both ways" as far as toxicity goes, but I do think that is the minority on both sides. Also I do like to think that in my post, as well as my brief interactions with you I was respectful. More or less I just said "Its not my thing. But I don't mind people who do enjoy it." I even offered a detailed suggestion to the OP about how they might go about getting attention and new people by making a pvp focused supergroup that doesn't just gank or duel, but also teaches. But my main point I wanted to say, is that if you want to be seen differently, you also have to act differently. If I wanted to be in an environment where I could be ganked while questing or while doing my own thing, I would likely be playing a different game with more tools for that gameplay. On a personal note, I don't appreciate the insinuation that people who dont enjoy PVP are scared/emotional/or take things personal. I could make the claim that Pvpers just want more victims/easy targets to harass and to troll. Both statements are petty and beneath everyone involved. And your statements, as well as those like it, probably don't come off as particularly welcoming to fellow players who might be interested in the gameplay you and others are so passionate about. Food for thought.

Whew.. thank goodness for that. I know its not going on now, and I don't know if that even was a thing before, but gotta say, that is a doozy. 100% not my thing. No hard feelings against those that did want that, but I would have been very put out if it was 100% applied to everyones base. So horray for "Opt In's"?

Reading through some of the comments here, I would like to say that I am kind of suprised by what people consider "cheating". To me, "cheating" is using outside hacking/botting programs or things expressly against the terms of use. But systems within the game itself, if they are available to everyone, that isnt cheating. Everyone has the same access to the same tools. Not everyone will agree different tools are "just and fair" for their perfered playstyle. And therein lays the crux of the issue. A few examples mayhaps. One friend of mine, plays by what he calls the "Iron Man" rules. He never buys "anything". No P2W, no auction house, he doesnt even buy plain IOs from vendors. He only uses the materials he finds himself, the IOs he finds himself, the recipies he finds himself. Thats all! So to him, he very well could claim "anyone who spends infamy that isnt crafting" is cheating, at least by his own self imposed rules and playset. (Note- He doesnt claim that at all! I am only illustrating for the point). Another example, another friend of mine, well she is deaf IRL. She can read and type just fine. But she can't hear. And she plays the game too. Well, logically by some arguments here, she could say that anyone who uses voice chat or discord is cheating, by her standards as well. Now she doesnt begruge anyone who uses those things, again, only illustrating the point. And I also conceed before anyone comments, that these are two very extreme examples, and are by and far not the normal! I guess what I am trying to say is, maybe people should stop focusing on other people, how others play, and how others have fun. And perhaps focus on their own enjoyment and what makes them enjoy the game. Don't like P2W? Thats fine! Don't use it. But mabye dont begruge others that do use it. Don't like AE? Thats fine too! Don't use it. No one is cocering or twisting your arm to. But its there for those that enjoy it. Don't like PvP? Thats fine as well! Then don't. But allow people who do or dont like it to enjoy it. Don't like story missions? Thats also okay! Not everyone likes doing the same ones over and over. And not everyone has the time to play through an entire story mission! They might only have 30 minutes or so to play, for whatever RL things they have going on. Don't like the Auction House? Thats okay too! Don't use it if you dont want to. I bet the sense of accomplishment would be fantastic if you do get a fully leveled hero using purely self found and made things! (honestly, I think that would be pretty epic to accomplish.) Don't share these opinions? Thats fine too! Everybodys different. Everyone is going to like different things, or play differently. Even in the same game! But I like to think thats what also is the game's strong point, how it can appeal to so many different sorts of people all within the same game - the Powergamers, the Dedicated Roleplayers, the Hardcore Storymode Heroes, the Soloers, the Raiders, the Auction House Watchers, the Supergroup Folks, the Lone Wolves, the Base Builders, the Contest Hosters, and more. Not everyone is going to agree here, and I would say thats normal, to be expected in fact. But I do hope that we can all agree that we all have the same access to the same tools provided, and the only things that change is which ones we each perfer to use, and the manner in which we perfer to use them. So lets live and let live? I'll do my thing, you do yours, and maybe if we both like the same thing we can meet in the middle somewhere? And lets leave it up to the game moderators, hosts, and folks running this out of their own free time decide what is and is not cheating. Best wishes to all, no matter what sort of player you are!

I didnt even know that base raiding used to be a thing. If someone came into my base, and completely thrashed what might have spent weeks if not months making, for what, and hour of pvp content? I would probially immediately quit. And I am pretty sure I am not the only one who would feel that way. Basebuilding more or less feels like a home, or a private space. Having a bunch of randoms storm in and wreck the place would feel like a violation not just of my time and effort, but also of my personal area. That very much should be an "opt into" system, not an "all bases are fair game". Becuase yes, it might be exciting for the pvpers at first, but after the first time it happened, I wouldn't build anything ever again. Not if someone else can just come along and wreck it. And yes, the higher skilled/bigger pvp people would quickly over run the smaller groups or non pvp groups. And I don't see many people being gluttons for punishment, not if their base is getting wrecked once a week or so. Which sort of leads me to why I dont like PVP. There are some respectful duelers out there, but please remember - what tools you give one group of people, you give to all. There would be nothing stopping a group of PVP griefers who like nothing better than to ruin other peoples day and playtime. In some games the entire PVP crowd can be quite toxic. (I hasten to add I make no claims that our pvpers are like that! Only the possibility certainly exists.) I guess what I am trying to say is, is that if a Pvper goes around griefing and ganking people who don't want to be involved whilest doing the "mocking jig", I suspect he would quickly run out of people willing to be victims. A few might try to get some payback certainly. But as for me and my group of friends, well, we would likely quit in droves. I don't care to play a game that enables and even rewards griefers. Or lets people who simply want to play/farm/adventure/rp in their own little way do it. You can't shove people who want different things into a sandbox and go "now you two be nice", expecting them to happilly go back and forth. And be shocked when some of them just quit and move to a different playground. Base raiding should not be a compulsary thing. I have no qualms against other groups of people staging them, but there should be a safety switch for people who dont want their stuff messed with.

Forwarning - Total newbie here, but I hope this offers some insight to the OP. I have never engaged in any serious PVP yet, only with friends when we were goofing around and just having fun. But we sort of went into that expecting it. (Adult beverages were involved, and it involved a lot of bouncing/ranged targeting/"for the lols" gameplay, so I very much doubt it was any form of serious pvp.) 1. As far as I can tell, the PVP here is very much like the Battledome from Mad Max. Two enter, one leaves. No rules, regulations, controls, or moderation. So someone like me with that fresh newbie smell, could get matched up against the server Sparticus. If there was some sort of system that could match players of similar skill level and equipment level I might consider it. But getting completely trounced/burst dps'd/CC'd doesnt teach anything. If a "level one" in pvp terms kept getting instantly killed by the "lvl 50" pvper, how is the new person to get any better? There is no gradient curve to learn from as far as I can tell. 2. Mentioned before in earlier posts, the at's/builds/skills/ios/powersets/pvp information seemes to be known to few. I can't confirm or deny this one way or another, but it's just what I have heard. I have yet to see a written "CoH PVP guide" anywhere here on the forums. Granted, I wasnt really looking, but if you want PVP to be taken seriously, than that stuff needs to be public knowledge. 3. Since there is no moderation, you might get someone who has plain fresh 50 IOs against someone with all the purples. Which I suspect wouldn't be a matter of skill, but more of who had more money to burn. 4. Lastly, I personally have always favored tough/durable classes, and pet classes in games. So naturally, here my favored classes are Tanker, Brute, Crabbermind, and Mastermind. And usually (at least in other games), both pet classes and "tank" classes are not really meant for pvp play. For pvp its always been about the burst damage, the CC, the clickables to give you that extra edge, and general game knowledge. This may or may not be the case in CoH, but I suspect that it is. Point is, PVP simply isnt for everyone. I find the thrill of standing against insurmountable enemies and saving my team, and surviving impossible odds far more satisfying than PVP. And I am not really keen to spend the money gearing up for pvp without any sort of controls, guides, or game records involved. However, this isn't all doom and gloom. I do have suggestion for you to consider OP. In another game, there was a group of players who wanted to attract more people for PVP. So they used the tools they had available, and ended up making a "PVP Guild". (I think it was called Training Wheels?). In a since, they had different "officers" for different "ranks" of pvpers. One officer would oversee the newbies and keep track of wins/losses. After like 50 wins, they could move up to the moderate rank, and so on. (Not positive those were their numbers, only giving an example for understanding.) Anyway, what you could do is a setup similar to this - Newbie Pvpers - players new to pvping, with limited/basic gear only. Whose focus wasnt to "win", but instead to practice and learn the specific game mechanics and tactics wehre pvpers were concerned. Wins and losses were not recorded at this stage. Moderate Pvpers - players with some experience, with expanded gear selection. They were supposed to focus on advancing their skills and learning team dynamics and the like. This is also where they started to keep track of their wins/losses. Expert Pvpers - this group were the most skilled and geared, who knew what they were doing. And this is where the teams/wins/losses/record started to matter. I mean, you could have officers over seeing each Teir of pvpers. With the overall Leader moderating the officers. I would suggest focusing on mentorship and building a pvp community, rather than what some games have. (lawlz git gud scrub mentality). It's just a suggestion. Though I think you can admit OP that this game is not really designed with PVP in mind, so I doubt its balanced for it. Also bare in mind that PVP isnt for everyone. Personally, I would only do it with friends. Because win or loose, I know its all in good fun, and not the focus of our play. And honestly, I just don't find PVP all that enjoyable at all. I've never been very good at it, particularly with my perfered classes and playstyle. And I don't particularly enjoy getting CC spammed or Instantly bursted (even though im supposedly a tough/defensive archtype) before I can do anything. And then getting mocked/teabagged/git gud scrub/what have you. Why would I do all that, when I don't even enjoy it. I didn't in other games, even if they had mounts/pets/titles/gear/rewards. In this game I suspect you would only find die hard fans of pvp, die hard COH fans, or very bored or ineberated players just out having a good time. TLDR - I dont usally PVP, but if there was a group offering to teach, and helpful guides to read up on, I might consider it. This is your community too PVP fans. Nothing says you cant build your own PVP communty here! Even if its only player moderated and controlled, a "gentlemans agreement" PVP community is better than none I would think? Just my two cents. I hope it helps OP!

Here's my crabber, the high res one. I can swap out resil for muscles if i need to, and I do think people forget you can have 3 builds on a character. I have others if im doing an ITF or have my SG with me. This is just the one I play when soloing or farming. I like being self sufficient and not having to rely overly much on inspirations or outside buffs. --------------- Villain Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7 https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer Click this DataLink to open the build! Level 50 Technology Arachnos Soldier Primary Power Set: Crab Spider Soldier Secondary Power Set: Crab Spider Training Power Pool: Flight Power Pool: Fighting Power Pool: Speed Power Pool: zc_Leadership Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery Villain Profile: Level 1: Channelgun -- EntChs-Heal%(A) Level 1: Crab Spider Armor Upgrade -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A), UnbGrd-ResDam(3), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(3) Level 2: Combat Training: Defensive -- LucoftheG-Def(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(5) Level 4: Hover -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A) Level 6: Kick -- Acc-I(A) Level 8: Suppression -- AchHee-ResDeb%(A), Ann-ResDeb%(9), Bmbdmt-Dam/Rech(9), Bmbdmt-Acc/Dam/Rech(11), Bmbdmt-+FireDmg(11), PstBls-Dam%(13) Level 10: Tactical Training: Maneuvers -- Rct-Def(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx(13), Rct-Def/Rchg(23), Rct-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(34), Rct-ResDam%(37), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(40) Level 12: Venom Grenade -- PstBls-Dam%(A), Bmbdmt-Dam(43), Bmbdmt-Acc/Dam/Rech(43), Bmbdmt-+FireDmg(46), SprSpdBit-Rchg/Global Toxic(50) Level 14: Tough -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(15), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(15), UnbGrd-Max HP%(23) Level 16: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(A), LucoftheG-Def(17), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(17) Level 18: Frag Grenade -- FrcFdb-Rechg%(A), SuddAcc--KB/+KD(19), Bmbdmt-Dam(19), Bmbdmt-Acc/Dam/Rech(21), Bmbdmt-+FireDmg(21) Level 20: Tactical Training: Leadership -- GssSynFr--Build%(A) Level 22: Mental Training -- Run-I(A) Level 24: Fortification -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), StdPrt-ResKB(25), UnbGrd-ResDam(25), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(34) Level 26: Frenzy -- Arm-Dmg(A), Arm-Dmg/Rchg(27), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(27), Arm-Acc/Rchg(31), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(33), Arm-Dam%(34) Level 28: Serum -- Prv-Heal(A), Prv-Heal/Rchg(29), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(29), Prv-Absorb%(31) Level 30: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(31) Level 32: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(33), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(33) Level 35: Summon Spiderlings -- EdcoftheM-Acc/Dmg(A), EdcoftheM-Acc/EndRdx(36), EdcoftheM-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(36), EdcoftheM-Dmg(36), EdcoftheM-PetDef(37), ExpRnf-+Res(Pets)(37) Level 38: Call Reinforcements -- CaltoArm-Acc/Rchg(A), CaltoArm-Acc/Dmg(39), CaltoArm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), CaltoArm-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(39), CaltoArm-+Def(Pets)(40), SlbAll-Build%(40) Level 41: Web Envelope -- GrvAnc-Immob(A), GrvAnc-Immob/Rchg(42), GrvAnc-Acc/Immob/Rchg(42), GrvAnc-Acc/Rchg(42), GrvAnc-Immob/EndRdx(43) Level 44: Shatter Armor -- SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg(A), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx(45), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(45), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(46), SprBlsCol-Rchg/HoldProc(46) Level 47: Summon Blaster -- CaltoArm-Acc/Rchg(A), CaltoArm-Acc/Dmg(48), CaltoArm-Dmg/EndRdx(48), CaltoArm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48), CaltoArm-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(50), SvrRgh-PetResDam(50) Level 49: Tactical Training: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A) Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A) Level 1: Conditioning Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A) Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A) Level 4: Ninja Run Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A) Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(5), Mrc-Rcvry+(7) Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A) Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-EndMod(A), PrfShf-End%(7) Level 50: Ageless Core Epiphany Level 50: Ion Core Final Judgement Level 50: Support Core Genome Level 50: Degenerative Core Flawless Interface Level 50: Resilient Core Paragon ------------ ------------

It would seem that you also have strong opinions and abolute statments. What about new players, or simply players who have never ran that TF or trial? Taking the time to tell them too inconvient? I only think that your statement is kind of self defeating. You go from "I only want a TF to take 30-40 minutes, I dont want to grind" immediately to "the quality of the community is what makes it good" and then to "people who dont share the values of the community" (where you insinuate might be your own values) are out of place. I mean, in your single quote there you say people "have no idea how to play" and then say "people are able to learn and play together", to "people who dont value teamwork". Well, teamwork sometimes means that you have to take the lead, or be the mentor, or help teach your skills or pass your game knowledge onto others, and not immeidately assume that everyone is a pro, or even fully geared up, or that everyone who powerlevels to 50 out of convience don't know what they are doing. Your statements just come off as "people who dont play my way or enjoy the game the way I do" are wrong. Not everyone is going to want to play TFs, or trials, or even run them as many times as you have. Aren't they part of the community too? I am curiosus as to what you are expecting: flawless speed TF runs? Thats a very... narrow.... group or playstyle to base an entire sense of community upon. Not meaning to be a personal attack in any way shape or form. But what you said there just made me tilt my head a little, and they did come off as a little condensending, even if they are your stated opinion.

@Omega-202- a great response, and thank you for that. And I agree that softcapping defenses and perma-serum is nice too. I didnt mean to infer that one way or another was better/superior, only that I made some tweaks and changes, and I personally enjoy it. Would post my own setup but I don't have access to it right this second. (typing from work.) My main focuses were - -both solo and team play. -being able to farm if I like. (I am aware that crabbers arent really built to farm, but its entirely possible. Not for money but for veteran levels/emp merits. But its decent money too.) -I tried juggling the support/barrier/inspires and so on. And it felt unrelialable, or any time I was caught flat footed, they would find holes. And not to mention -defense/resist debuffs, which I notice have a lot less effect on me now. Only meant to highlight a different style of crab that I don't see often, which I had much better results with, and one that I personally found more enjoyable to play. I mean I can put my frenzy on autocast and go afk on a map and farm with my crabber on the hardest 4/8 difficulty. It may not be the fastest, but she "can" do it, when I don't think other crabbers would even have that option. Sometimes its just nice to be def/res capped and not have to worry about it, and be able to focus on other things! I enjoy different playmodes too, such as being able to get into melee if I want to, or web stuff and debuff them/chew them all down with grenades and suppression, or even pop all my pets like other crabbers. For me the best part of the build is I never feel rushed, or paniced, or like I am getting over whelmed suddenly even I'm getting swarmed with 16 mobs. Which on the other setup, I would be. And you are certianly right in that I had to squeeze a lot of IO stuff out to get there. My own serum is only 4 slotted. But with my defenses thats certianly been enough so far. You would also do more damage too. But, I have other activities I can do, such as keep things permawebbed, or even AFK farm, which I have "never" been able to do on a crabber before. So, neither one is wrong! I only wanted to help share what I changed with the OP to make my crabber much better (for me at least!) Best wishes!

@Diantane- There is nothing wrong with "enjoying the journey" style of play. Many people favor that. But with that, many people have already enjoyed that journey, several times now. Also there are other considerations - - Homecoming has been out over a year now, and I daresay the initial rush is over. I too have noticed a drop in player numbers, but I still have no difficulty finding teams. I like to hope that the folks around now are here to stay, for awhile at least. -You also might want to consider things like timezones and what day you play on. It's far easier to get teams for me in the evening during the week, than say, 7AM on a Sunday. -You also might be forgitting that some people, myself included, find the "story mode" method of leveling to be very slow and tiedious. Unless I enjoy the story or content, I will not spend months of time to "storymode" leveling. Many people who played this game when they were younger, simply dont have the free time to sink into an online hobby like they used to. People have jobs, kids, bills, classes, responsibilities, etc. They may not be able to spend months grinding away in an MMO like they used to. There is such a thing as "too grindy", or too much time required for a character. - Also bare in mind that for many people we already have serveral fully equipped 50's now. I have over a page of them. So the only time I want to make a new character is to just check out a powerset I want to try, or to just goof around. And if I just want to test build mechanics, why would I spend all that time grinding up when I can spend a single day in the AE powerleveling myself to 50. Often times i find that I did not like that powerset or playstyle one bit, and then delete that character. If I had played "story mode", it might have taken me a long time to realize that - hey, this setup just isnt for me. -Another option that people have that you might be forgetting is Ouros. I know a few people at least that skip the "story part" when leveling up, then go back and simply play their favorte story missions through Ouros, either because they like the content, or they are getting badges, or whatever reason compells them to do so. Some people are going to run story/contact/radio missions. There is nothing wrong with that. Some people are going to prefer to run AE's for quicker leveling. There is nothing wrong with that either. Some people don't even care about leveling at all. They get to level 2 just to open up walk power. Roleplaying "is" their game. There is nothing wrong with that either. (besides, I know some absurdly wealthy level 2's that spend their time roleplaying, and playing the markets. And have never once stepped foot in an AE or done missions.) There are different sorts of activities for different sorts of people. And in my book, that is a good thing. Any sort of activity that keeps people interested and involved in CoH's return is a good thing for everyone. But lets play hypothetical here. Lets say (for arguement sake) they nerf all leveling across the board, so that it is all activites are entirely equal in terms of EXP and INF gains. I don't believe that would encourage folks to do more story missions. In fact, I daresay it might only make more people do the AEs more. Its less travel involved. Less random mission types. Less random bank missions. Less annoying enemies like Carnies. Less random map types like caves. Now the INF thing has been beaten to death in past topics, and debated by heads wiser than mine, so lets not start that over again. All I will say is that I wouldnt oppose them equalizing the INF gain somewhat, either by lowering the AE gain a bit or increasing the "story mode" gains, or even a bit of both to make them even out a little. But thats my mere humble opinion. That said however, If they over-nerf the AE/farms/etc, I think you would find the "nobody around" problem go even worse. I am sure a good many people would say to themselves "Whelp, it was fun returning. But character progression just takes too long now. Im going elsewhere." Which would lead to more people leaving, instead of staying, which I think we all agree on is a bad thing. Addtionally please keep in mind this game design is an aged one. Lets take Everquest for example, where it would take literal "years" of real life time for your character to fully develop and grow. Some abilities, spells, quests, and gear might take months of time to complete. It was a massive undertaking in terms of time investment that is unheard of today. But that ended up being its own pitfall i think, because that makes the game very unfriendly to "alting" or having more than one character. Also, I'd say that is an aged sort of gameplay that we rarely see now. (I am not saying its BAD at all, only an older style of MMO character progression.) And it is one that only diehard fans play and enjoy. And theres nothing wrong with enjoying or not enjoying it. My only advice would be to try and make global friends who enjoy the same content that you do, who play on the same times that you do. Maybe check the forums and find a supergroup who is similar to your own favored activities. Or mabye even start your own. Perhaps do other activities during the slow times? Base building for example. Badge hunting/collecting. Title hunting. Exploration. And so on. I would start trying to record what I noticed were "peak" activity times when I could find groups, and highlight times that I had difficulty, and make plans accordingly. Either do other things in the game during those low peroids, or mabye pick that time of day to do things like laundry or the dishes. Another thing that might help is peeking in on other servers. It is quite possible that your server just has a main population that plays at a different time than you do. No harm in looking at other servers and their times/activities. You might be pleasently suprised! Bit of a long winded reply I suppose. But I guess what I am trying to say here is that by whatever outside mechanic to artifically "force" people to enjoy any particular activity, will not end well for anyone, be it the game or the community. People will either like something, or they wont. And trying to force it one way or the other, well, there are lots of examples of past games doing that and we got to see the results. It wasn't pretty. Just my two cents, for what its worth! Best wishes

One thing I have noticed is that most crabber builds stop at around 60% res, when 85% is the cap. You can go that high, but I only focused on S/L res that high, but my fire/cold still ended up in the high 70s. I found changing my alpha from Agility to Resilient made a big difference too. Not just in resistances, but also from my Web Grenade duration. (I run mace mastery) Long enough that I can keep things perma-webbed if I like, and just shoot them all en masse. But yes, did find going higher on resistances made a world of difference, but you are going to make a few sacrifices getting there.

That depends entirely on what you mean by "making it". While I am no expert, my robo/time dues just fine on max difficulty without a single hami IO, but aura pet/recharge pet IOs are pretty much required yes. Personally I dislike the Hami IO's, but thats personal taste. They are in no means "required" though.

@Mageman Hi hi, bit late to the party. While I'm no expert I was thinking about this combo as well. I took yours as a base and made some edits and changes to my preferred play style. Made a few power changes, but mostly focused on END management. With my setup you have enough END to run with all your toggles on, even hurricane + steamy mist. I added hover/group fly out of personal preference. It barely squeaks out being able to run all toggles with a bit to spare, but if you can run without a toggle or two you will have END to spare, and this is before taking things like ageless into account. My general idea is to run a Def heavy setup, with some -tohit debuffs, while having some good DPS. I added damage procs where I could. It should hit defense cap, even though it doesnt show in MIDs, due to the portector bots hitting all targets with their FF twice. So it should be at all softcapped defenses, plus with a good bit of resistance too. Again, by no means a build expert, and I have yet to actually make and try this, but to my inexpert eye it looks like it might be good? Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7 https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer Click this DataLink to open the build! Sin Robostorm: Level 50 Technology Mastermind Primary Power Set: Robotics Secondary Power Set: Storm Summoning Power Pool: Leadership Power Pool: Flight Power Pool: Presence Power Pool: Fighting Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery Hero Profile: Level 1: Battle Drones -- OvrFrc-Dam/KB(A), CaltoArm-+Def(Pets)(3), ExpRnf-+Res(Pets)(3), SprCmmoft-Rchg/PetAoEDef(5), SprMarofS-Dmg(5), SprMarofS-EndRdx/+Resist/+Regen(7) Level 1: Gale -- SuddAcc--KB/+KD(A) Level 2: O2 Boost -- Pnc-Heal/Rchg(A), Pnc-Heal/EndRedux(9), Pnc-Heal/EndRedux/Rchg(19) Level 4: Maneuvers -- Rct-Def(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx(7), Rct-EndRdx/Rchg(19), Rct-Def/Rchg(25), Rct-ResDam%(31) Level 6: Equip Robot -- EndRdx-I(A) Level 8: Hover -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(33), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(33) Level 10: Steamy Mist -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), LucoftheG-Def(11), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(21), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(21), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(31), LucoftheG-EndRdx/Rchg(50) Level 12: Protector Bots -- EdcoftheM-PetDef(A), SuddAcc--KB/+KD(13), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(13), LucoftheG-Def(15), SprMarofS-Acc/Dmg(15), SprMarofS-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(17) Level 14: Tactics -- GssSynFr--ToHit(A), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(17), GssSynFr--Rchg/EndRdx(23), GssSynFr--ToHit/EndRdx(23), GssSynFr--Build%(25) Level 16: Provoke -- PrfZng-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(A) Level 18: Freezing Rain -- Bmbdmt-+FireDmg(A), PstBls-Dam%(34), JvlVll-Dam%(34) Level 20: Boxing -- Acc-I(A) Level 22: Tough -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(37), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(39), UnbGrd-Max HP%(39), GldArm-3defTpProc(39) Level 24: Weave -- ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(A), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(40), ShlWal-EndRdx/Rchg(40), ShlWal-Def/Rchg(40), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(42), ShlWal-Def(50) Level 26: Assault Bot -- SuddAcc--KB/+KD(A), SvrRgh-PetResDam(27), SlbAll-Dmg(27), SlbAll-Build%(29), SprMarofS-Acc/EndRdx(29), SprMarofS-Dmg/EndRdx(31) Level 28: Hurricane -- SuddAcc--KB/+KD(A), DarWtcDsp-ToHitdeb/Rchg/EndRdx(34), DarWtcDsp-ToHitDeb(43), DarWtcDsp-Rchg/EndRdx(45), DarWtcDsp-ToHitDeb/EndRdx(50) Level 30: Fly -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A) Level 32: Upgrade Robot -- EndRdx-I(A) Level 35: Tornado -- AchHee-ResDeb%(A), SlbAll-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), FrcFdb-Rechg%(36), TchofLadG-%Dam(36), SlbAll-Dmg/Rchg(37), SlbAll-Dmg/EndRdx(37) Level 38: Lightning Storm -- GldJvl-Dam%(A), Apc-Dmg(42), Apc-Dmg/Rchg(42), Apc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(43), Apc-Dam%(43) Level 41: Web Envelope -- GrvAnc-Immob(A), GrvAnc-Immob/Rchg(46), GrvAnc-Acc/Immob/Rchg(46), GrvAnc-Acc/Rchg(48), GrvAnc-Immob/EndRdx(48) Level 44: Scorpion Shield -- ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(A), ShlWal-EndRdx/Rchg(45), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(45), ShlWal-Def(46), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(48) Level 47: Group Fly -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A) Level 49: Vengeance -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A) Level 1: Brawl -- Acc-I(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Clr-Stlth(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A) Level 1: Sprint -- Clr-RunSpd(A) Level 1: Supremacy Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I(A) Level 4: Ninja Run Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A) Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), Mrc-Rcvry+(11), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(33) Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A) Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(9) Level 1: Battle Drone Level 12: Protector Bot Level 26: Assault Bot Level 50: Cardiac Core Paragon ------------

I would say, yes. Even with carapace always being on, there is such a thing as auto damage in the game which will go through that like tissue paper. Personally when I roll bio, i like parasite more than carapace. I usually end up juggling them both, with siphon as a clutch when needed. But if what you have works for you, then i say go for it. For me I always think more options/tools are nice to have for different situations and enemy types!

My current favorites are - Rad/Claws - slotted for damage procs, she can actually do surprising damage for a tanker. Res capped, good at single target and AoE damage, also a good AFK farmer too if that's your thing. Load up an AE, turn on toggles, put spin on auto cast and go do dishes or laundry. Shield/Ele - wrecking ball, two charges, AoE slam, pick off the 1 or 2 survivors, charge to the next group. Intense play style where it feels like you are controlling the battlefield. My next tanker is trying to find a good Savage melee setup, not many comments out there for them.

No idea what you mean by that, but what I meant is when your pets start dying off your res will be overwhelmed, due to fewer pets being able to share the body guard damage. Once you loose 3 or 4 you get over taken very quickly, with regards to farming half the moon map at a time.

I am east coast and no lag, maybe its a regional thing/storm related? Don't think its everyone thats lagging.

@Sovera - thank you for the feedback! Will be responding to your bullet points - 1. That was a good catch. Though I am really over cap with melee hybrid active (i think?), with it turned off some resists drop to exactly 90%. But i was aiming to be good in normal content, but also being able to afk farm on s/l maps, so i guess you have a good point. I wont be going afks on any map but s/l farms so i can definitely move stuff around. I am not familar what you mean by FF though... 2. You are right there too, but not sure which procs would be good to drop. Spin is my main aoe damage due to its speed, so i would like to keep that one proc heavy, but the rest are wiggle-able for more defense. 3. Power order is defiantly up for changes, mostly i was looking at overall stuff. But I can for sure mix things around for exemplar reasons. 4. I didnt think i was chasing END, just put in the end procs, i wasnt slotting for END, i was mainly slotting for Recovery and holes in resistance like energy/neg/psi and so on. 5. I really just put rebirth there just because. I can certainly swap it out with Barrier. Really the only ones i consider locked in is musclature Alpha and Melee Hybrid. Everything else is really up for changes. 6. And yea, thats the stuff i dont know about, the stuff that doesnt show up in mids or acts differently in game. So i can just assume my resists are 16% higher? Not sure what all that proc effects. Thanks bunches!

Hello forums, Well, here is my attempt at a Rad armor/Claws. My overall goal was to use her for generic about anything tanker as well as farming. The Claws with procs deals surprisingly good damage (spin in particular). I wanted her resistances nice and high, with a good regenerate. Recovery is a nonissue, as Claws uses so little END and Radiation Therapy also refills End, which is nice to leave options for destiny slot. Anyway, submitting this for the experts. It's unusual I know, but I also hope thats part of it's charm. It is sort of a theme build, character is based off shadow run/cyberpunk setting. But I would welcome any thoughts from the experts. Thanks bunches in advance! The Build - sin rad-claw procs mk 2.mxd Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7 https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer Click this DataLink to open the build! Sins rad-claw proc ver.: Level 50 Technology Tanker Primary Power Set: Radiation Armor Secondary Power Set: Claws Power Pool: Fighting Power Pool: Leadership Power Pool: Speed Power Pool: Leaping Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery Hero Profile: Level 1: Alpha Barrier -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(17), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(23), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(29), ImpArm-ResPsi(43) Level 1: Swipe -- SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(A), SprGntFis-Rchg/+Absorb(3), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(3), SprGntFis-Dmg/Rchg(15), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg(15), SprGntFis-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(17) Level 2: Gamma Boost -- NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(A) Level 4: Slash -- TchofLadG-%Dam(A), TchofDth-Dam%(5), Mk'Bit-Dam%(5), TchofDth-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(7), GldStr-%Dam(7), Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg(34) Level 6: Kick -- FrcFdb-Rechg%(A) Level 8: Proton Armor -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(9), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(9), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(36), ImpArm-ResPsi(46) Level 10: Fallout Shelter -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(11), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(11), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(34), ImpArm-ResPsi(48) Level 12: Radiation Therapy -- ThfofEss-+End%(A), TchoftheN-%Dam(13), Erd-%Dam(13), ThfofEss-Heal/Rchg(42), PrfZng-Dam%(45), Mrc-Rcvry+(48) Level 14: Beta Decay -- AchHee-ResDeb%(A) Level 16: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A) Level 18: Particle Shielding -- Prv-Heal(A), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(19), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(19), Prv-Heal/Rchg(21), Prv-Absorb%(21), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(33) Level 20: Spin -- FuroftheG-ResDeb%(A), Erd-%Dam(31), Obl-%Dam(31), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(34), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg(37), SprAvl-Rchg/KDProc(37) Level 22: Tough -- UnbGrd-Max HP%(A), GldArm-3defTpProc(23), UnbGrd-ResDam(27), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(27), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(36), ImpArm-ResPsi(50) Level 24: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(25), Rct-ResDam%(25), LucoftheG-Def(50) Level 26: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(29) Level 28: Focus -- Dcm-Acc/Dmg(A), Dcm-Build%(40), Apc-Dam%(42), Apc-Dmg(42), Apc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(43), Apc-Dmg/Rchg(43) Level 30: Follow Up -- SprMghoft-Rchg/Res%(A), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg(31), Hct-Dam%(33), Mk'Bit-Dam%(33), GssSynFr--Build%(36), Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg(37) Level 32: Super Speed -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A) Level 35: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A) Level 38: Shockwave -- SuddAcc--KB/+KD(A), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(39), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), SprFrzBls-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(39), SprFrzBls-Rchg/ImmobProc(40), Ann-ResDeb%(40) Level 41: Ground Zero -- AchHee-ResDeb%(A), TchofLadG-%Dam(45), Erd-%Dam(45), ScrDrv-Dam%(46), ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg(46), ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(50) Level 44: Focused Accuracy -- GssSynFr--ToHit/EndRdx(A) Level 47: Meltdown -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), Ags-Psi/Status(48) Level 49: Physical Perfection -- PrfShf-End%(A) Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A) Level 1: Gauntlet Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A) Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A) Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A) Level 4: Ninja Run Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A) Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A) Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A) Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A) Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve Level 0: Portal Jockey Level 0: Task Force Commander Level 0: The Atlas Medallion Level 50: Musculature Core Paragon Level 50: Melee Core Embodiment Level 50: Rebirth Total Radial Invocation Level 50: Degenerative Core Flawless Interface ------------

@DrBasics I have two MMs that can do 4/8 fairly well with bosses. The first is demons/electrical affinity. The general consensus about EA is its a sub optiomal set, but with it you can make your demons "quite" tanky. So if you like having immortal-ish pets, its pretty solid. EA has its own problems as most of the buffs only work on other players, not pets/lore, and nor do they benifit from the +recharge buff the set has either. It doesnt make them attack any faster and so on. But, it is a top teir set for sheer immortality. You have bodyguard mode, then Farday Cage which boosts everythings resists as well as makes your pets immine to most CC, knockback and so on. Then you can give everything an absorb shield for extra cushion. You also have a heal on top of that, as well as two -damage debuffs - one single target for -20%, and one AOE for -10%. and yes, they stack. so you can give one enemy -30% damage done, on top of you and your pets capped resists/absorbs/bodyguard mode/heals. But the +damage and T9 "knock up" power doesnt work on pets. Which means this combo while extremely durable, is also dead last for damage. Hell on Earth from Demons certainly helps, but overall it's sub par damage. But its also funny that this combo also keeps every little cinder alive VERY well, because they are also affected by the absorb shield/heal/farday cage, which means you will have lots, and lots, of little burning imps in your wake. They arent much but every bit helps. Also as a personal preferance, it isnt very enjoyable to actually play. It has its moments certainly, but it is "very" click-spammy. EA is by far the most spamy MM set I have tried so far, and I generally dislike that playstyle. But if that isnt an issue, and you dont mind having low damage, then go for it. The other MM I have that does 4/8 very well is Robo/Time. Where demons is resistance focused, this one is defense focused. Time has a bit of everything - heals, CC, slows, debuffs, +defense. Plus there is a trick with Power Up from Mace Mastery and Farsight - popping power up and then Farsight actually gives a big boost to its values. (i think 16% if i recall correctly?), so it is fairly simple to make quite durable pets with /time. Also as a cherry on top, with Mace you can immobilize with Web Envelope, and drop Distortion Field on the group, so even after the web wears off, you have plenty of time to lock them back down again. All this means you can hang way back and just out gun your enemies with your ranged robots, fairly easially. Which is especially good with assualt bots missles/fire patches. The caviat to Robo/Time though, is the majority of your damage comes form your assualt bot. And where its normal to have them attack your targets, i have actually had far better results by just letting the assualt robot do its thing, and i focused on webbing/distortion field the groups he was engaging, leaving things dieing quite quickly to his fire patches. This one i find enjoyable to play, but always felt rather lackluster anytime I was on a team. Because my buffs didnt overly matter much, and my dps wasnt the best, so mostly i was on CC and spot heal duty. One neat thing I did find out though, is both of these MMs were actually faster at clearing the moon map than my brute was. Not because of damage, the brute obviously outdamages them, but how the threat mechanic works. Normally, you can only hold aggro and fight 16 mobs at a time. However, for pets they also get 16 mobs of their own. So 1 (you) + 3 (t1 pets) + 2 (t2 pets) + 1 (big pet) = 7 threat tables. 7x16 = 112. More if you include lore pets. So while my damage was no where NEAR my brutes per foe, the fact i could ingage almost 10 times as many at once made her improved damage less of a factor. When farming with my MM, I usually engage half the map on the inital pull, fight nonstop for awhile, an then go round up the 2 or 3 groups that hid in the corners. The problem with farming that way is its high risk/high reward. both of my MMs can do it, but its easier with the demons/EA. But you have to go in ready to go, and expect a nonstop fight. If 1 or 2 pets die, you can recover from that. but if you start loosing 3 or 4 you will get cascading bodyguard failure and you will die rather quickly. Anyway, if you are determined to play on +4/8 with bosses solo, I recommend either Demons/EA if you want to bet on all out defenses, or Robo/time if you want more combat engagement options. Hope this helps!

I am currently working on a Radiation Armor/Claws tanker, and slotting for chance for damage procs. It is my first attempt at a proc heavy setup, but I am hoping with the speed of Claws it might actually be decent damgae. I have no idea what the proc chances/ratios work, and I am concerned that elite bosses, archvillians and so on will just out resist all the damage procs. (might use the reactive incarnate for that, but haven't gotten that far yet.) It is still a work in progress, and she only hit 48 last night. But so far its looking promising.

Either way could work, but i think it might be better to do a bit of both? Take say, the bottom 3 and top 3 sets and try to equalize them a bit? Just thinking aloud. But ya, my main point is that some powersets fall flat even with investment, and some completely dominate even with minimal investment. Personally I have my fingers crossed that Arachnos and specifically Crabbers get looked at. But there are certianly others.

Personally I would vote for powerset/at tuning. Some sets and ATs underperform, even when you sink over a billion inf into them. I'm not saying make them all tw/bio level, but I am sure some of the bottom teir stuff could use a little bit of a bump.