Galaxy Brain

Would you be able to repeat that same test a few times each to cover RNG being hit?

With all the talk about Damping Bubble's effectiveness, I decided to hit the lab and see what it actually does: Without the bubble on for my MM, we see the Galaxy Minion hits me for -15% rech, and -2.15mph movement speed. With the bubble on, I am hit for 11.11% -Rech, and seemingly -1.59mph movement speed. What is deceptive about this though is that Recharge value: If you just eyeball the Combat Attributes window, the numbers may appear worse than they appear due to the nature of stacking a -Strength Debuff and a +Debuff Resist power. Resistance does not show up as directly, but if you pop those values above into a calculator: 11.11 / 15 = .7405 (roughly), matching the resistance. If we look at the actual value of the -Speed debuff we can see it is being lowered by about ~26% as well, before we resist it by ANOTHER 26%: My running speed should be 24.34mph without debuffs. 23.16 is only -1.18mph lower, not -1.59. 1.18 / 1.59 = ~0.74 So what is happening here is that it is basically Reverse Power-Boosting Enemies! Breaking this down with 3 slotted SO values of Def for DDR: With both values working in combination, a Defender is giving more like 68-55% Debuff resistances depending on the difficulty

I think its a question of allowing it to still have the great -res while also getting huge buffs to the base stats. If the -res worked the same as live, why would you take another set as a defender? This is why I am so curious about a head to head comparison of the same character doing the same content (map or AV, etc) while optimized for both live and beta sonic. That should give a solid data point about how it compares in practice with Damage and Res changes.

Has anyone compared a solo Pylon/AV takedown with a /Sonic build between live and beta? I am curious if the increased DPS of the set itself washes out the difference in debuff strength.

I have a long running test environment for comparing primary sets (So far for Melee [Scrappers], Ranged [Blasters], and Masterminds). The goal is to test sets in a "mission" environment instead of a farm or pylon to get a more "average" performance benchmark.

Alrighty, lets look at ye olde Sonic Attack at x8 difficulty: Blaster - 0/8x difficulty, SO values, Primary Powers only: And now, the beta build: The DPA and Rech changes are no joke, going from the absolute worst to being the near mid-point is a big jump.

Word on the grapevine is they are trying new ways to nerf regen, but it keeps healing...

Is there data / a post backing this up?

Speed/leap/fight/leadership are picked for good reason however. They are *not mandatory* by any means, but they have power picks that are on average way better than other pools with the context of limited pool choices + how other pools have some oddball picks compared to what are found in pri/sec pools.

In my defense this was a rabbit hole I dove into at 230 am 😄 You're spot on in that pools are currently working as intended in that they are supposed to have limitations in usage and selection. That said, what I was trying to say is more along the lines of: Certain pool powers are so beneficial across the board that in the strict sense of "building for effectiveness" they out compete other choices. Combined with how dipping into those pools limits further choices, it sort of pushes out more creative choices. There's also the weird scaling where something that should be cool (Spring Attack) ends up being very lackluster due to it being a pool power, even though you need 2 extra power picks in order to even unlock it. Thinking as I type on mobile here, I think the "good" pool powers all share the trait of either being something incredibly unique (see sorcery) or something that adds to your character (tough/manuevers/etc) without trying to compete with other picks. Something like Spring Attack is "bad" because it is competing with other AoE attacks you may have at your disposal, where it has not only "meh" stats comparatively but also requires a lot more investment to even get. Making more pool powers "good" in that they don't have clearly better options that you'd rather take / they all add to the whole would help a lot.

Reading the thread, there appear to be a few key points trying to be addressed: Confront is an objectively bad power. IIRC, there was a thread spawned from the 2020 data pull that went over the % that individual powers were taken and all forms of Confront had low single digit rates of use across all levels. Given it's ST nature, many have stated a use is to pull a pesky enemy off a team mate. For Confront specifically, given it's on Scrappers, they often have tools that let them just eliminate a target or neutralize them while also likely naturally taking aggro if they focus on the problem enemy thanks to raw damage + a chunk of secondaries having some sort of aggro aura. If a Scrapper really wants to taunt, Provoke from the Presence pool is quite comparable: Confront: 1.67 cast time / 3s rech / 70ft range / ST / 23.1s taunt / AUTO HIT! / -75% range on target Provoke: 1.67 cast / 10s rech / 60ft range / 15ft AOE! / 12.32s taunt / NOT AUTO HIT The major differences are the Recharge, AoE, and Auto Hit stats. Used as a taunt tool, both have 100% uptime at base when looking at the Rech vs Taunt stats, but the AoE factor pushes Provoke ahead IMHO given you'd need to cast Confront multiple times for the same effect of getting multiple enemies targeting you vs your friend. As mentioned, the ST Confront has way too many things that compete for the slot that can do the same job per set, while not much is available to Scrappers that can fill the same role as an AoE taunt. Even without the -Range and not being Auto Hit, Provoke I would say does a better job than a power shared in every Scrapper primary, which is an issue. Slow Assassin's Strike is fun, but in practice is not really as good as it should be overall. Slow AS has the fun side effect of the "Demoralize" debuff which can hit 16 targets in a 30ft radius for -7.5% ToHit, and a 25% chance (4 targets on average) to apply a Mag 5 terrorize for 8 seconds each. This is nice, but this also comes after a 2.67-3.67s animation that can be interrupted which is super slow. The upside is that they all deal 389.3 base damage out of hide. The fast version of AS is always 2s faster (0.67-1.67s) and deals 153.5 base damage. On average, this means that fast AS animates in roughly 36% of the time while doing 39% of the raw damage of slow AS. Without diving into the details yet, the mismatch here also means fast AS will usually outcompete slow AS when it comes to damage/animation time. Only a handful of slow AS's outcompete the DPA of their fast ones at base value, with Broadsword/Ninja Blade/Fire Melee/Ice Melee having 15% better DPA All others have about 85% the DPA of their fast counterpart, with Stone/StJ having 94%, and KM having an astonishing 64%! Just about 4/5 Stalker sets have their fast AS as better DPA from the start! Assassin's focus throws a massive wrench into the balance between the two in terms of damage, with 1 stack alone tilting the scales to 52% of slow damage, and 2 stacks shifting to 65% while maintaining the fast animation speed. In order to get AF, you need to hit with other attacks which on the whole animate a whole lot faster than the 2s gap between Fast/Slow AS, and deal damage on their own: Averaged out, T1 stalker attacks deal ~52 damage and have a 0.9 cast time. Without AF, fast AS + a T1 would deal 205.3 dam/2.1s on avg = 98.3 dpa. Slow AS would be 389.3/3.1 = 123.6, only about a 25 DPA difference for nearly 1.5x the time. Likewise, T2 attacks average out to ~73 damage / 1.2s cast time Without AF, fast AS = 228.8/2.4 = 95.7. Again nearly 50% more cast time for only a gain of ~28 DPA if you chose slow AS Combined, 7/18 sets have a T1+T2 combo that is 2s or faster to complete. Without AF, these deal an average of 70% of the slow AS damage within ~96% of the cast time. Of note, Martial Arts makes out the best with 70% of the damage in 89% of the time. Claws is the "worst" of the good ones with 66% dam/100% time, and overall Dual Blades is the worst overall with 68% dam/114% time in this comparison. Adding in 1 stack of AF after each attack (33% crit buff): T1+fAS = 122.5 dpa (only 1.1 off of sAS) T2+fAS = 116.8 dpa (only 6.8 off sAS) T1+T2+fAS (assuming a 66% crit chance) = 114.6 dpa (only 9 off sAS and on the whole averaging 3.3s vs 3.1s) If the attacks prior to fAS crit at any time due to hide, natural chance/boosted Team chances then it just straight outclasses sAS by a max of neary +30dpa! That's a lot of math I wrote at like 1am... but the gist is that Assassin's Focus with how it works just outpaces slow AS when using even the weakest attacks in tandem, ignoring even getting 3 stacks! Pool powers are limited, but not equal. Lastly, the suggestions of using pool powers to emulate the request works in a vacuum but there is something to be said about what you give up. This is more of a bigger issue with how things like Provoke compete for a slot with Leadership, Speed, and Fighting pools which have proven to be overwhelmingly useful in comparison. So yes while you can get what you "want" from pool choices, it can end up being more of a pain than it's worth! Looking at these three core issues combined, the original request definitely has merit if it were just a +Leap attached to the powers. That would alleviate the Pool power issue some, and give new utility to powers that are straight up outclassed in what they are meant to accomplish. However, I don't think a gap-closer there would work out the best. Maybe converting confront into a ranged attack per set and then backfilling teleport attacks....? I'm not sure to be honest but most anything may be welcome to help with the above!

You would think, but it actually be Rrrrr

I'll sign off on this only if you can guess what a pirate's favorite letter is

IMHO, this post here highlights the value of the KD proc when it comes to damage potential. The TL:DR here is that in a mission environment, there is a clear difference with sets that "Scatter" enemies with and without the proc(s) invested that on average is about 1 minute faster clear times with that alone. Using Archery as an example, changing it's single AoE KB power to KD changed it's average clear time from 8:40 to 7:50, about 10% faster in the course of a x8 mission with a single slot. The KD proc is super powerful on it's own merit, and does not need further boosts. That said, not all KB powers are the same. The main issue I think that always comes up is AoE knocks, especially spherical knocks where enemies can be scattered to the 4 corners of the globe easily by mistake which can cause chaos. The flipside is true too when certain powers become MONSTERS with KD such as Tornado and Bonfire.

Can you elaborate on how it's janky?

Just curious on this one as Disintegrate is probably the most lax combo on the list with it being fire and forget. What don't you like about it? Also, I have to agree that the combos DB has are kind of.... eh, but what about other spender sets like StJ?

Big agree here on the "must skips", though often I find myself enjoying "must takes", IE stuff like Disintegrate. I feel a lot of stuff like taunts, placate, etc, could have been inherent but was a result of the game being old and the design standards put in place. Tbh I would rather more be done with them like how some Build Ups are a bit different. What if say, Psy Melee's taunt/placate interacted with insight? Etc

This would be the "Tough Test" 🙂

I suspect there would be heavy resistance to that.

On the subject of Staff, do you feel needing 3 other attacks to fuel it should have a bigger payoff, or with how the game works where you'd naturally be swinging in between uses is it fine?

Coming in late to the party, but fire melee would be the way to go here. As noted, primaries offer mitigation which can really skew data on survival depending on the set. Something like an AoE with a 75% knockdown chance can make or break a run all just on RNG! If we wanna compare just the armor, we should be playing with fire.

So, the dreaded combo mechanic. The complicated, "gimmicky"... thing that a lot of sets seem to lean on nowadays. It's often lauded as something that is a negative, but why exactly is that? To find out what all the fuss is about I think we should first define them. A combo (short for combination) is a set of actions performed in sequence, usually with strict timing limitations, that yield a significant benefit or advantage. - Combo (Video Games), Wikipedia So with this in mind, an actual "Combo" is as broad as: Using Attack 1, then Attack 2 soon after. A bit too broad for my tastes as otherwise Build Up + Attacks for 10s is a "combo mechanic". For our purposes we should change the wording a bit to "yielding a specific benefit or advantage". So for example, if Attack 1 to Attack 2 just did damage, but Attack 2 to Attack 1 did damage + X, that would be a combo mechanic. We see a lot of sets fit this definition, but in a few different categories. Build and Spend: One of the more common versions, you perform X actions to gain (Points). You can then spend points on Y for bonuses. Some sets have an interesting dynamic where (Points) provide benefits aside from being ammo which can lead to some tactical play between "hold" and spend. Savage Melee/Assault - Blood Frenzy: Using Savage Melee powers builds stacks of Blood Frenzy. Certain powers consume all stacks on use and get super-powered at max stacks. Water Blast - Tidal Power: A builder/spender version of the combo mechanic, you use certain powers specifically to boost other ones later on. Uniquely some of the "spenders" are also "builders". Seismic Blast - Seismic Pressure: Accumulate Seismic Pressure until you proc Shockwaves, you then have access to a few super-versions of powers. Energy Melee/Assault - Energy Focus: Use Total Focus to gain Energy Focus, which can then be spent on several powers for bonus effects. Psionic Melee - Boggle/Insight: Firstly, Boggle has a bit of a hidden combo where Boggled enemies gain Insight much more effectively on hit. But mainly, Insight once gained unlocks bonus effects on several powers and can be spent for a super version of a power. Staff Fighting - Perfection: With each special stance, attacking builds up stacks of Perfection. Upon reaching 3 stacks, you can spend them for a super-version of certain powers. Street Justice - Combo Level: As you fight you gain Combo Level stacks. Certain powers (Finishers) spend combo stacks for added effects. Stalkers - Assassin's Focus: Attacking targets out of hide (not sure if in-hide counts off the top of my head) grants stacks of Assassin's focus. Each stack increases the crit chance of Assassin's Strike out of hide and is spent on use. Mark and Exploit: Another somewhat common one is setting up a target which then has specific interactions from other powers, usually within the same set. With most all of these sets, you get some extra fun where multiple players can combo off each other if they share the sets. Beam Rifle - Disintegrate: Tag an enemy with the Disintegrate effect, then further Beam Rifle powers have bonus effects on that target. Electrical Blast - Shock: One of the newest examples, with the context of needing your target to have a certain criteria (low end) + only having the bonus on Elec Blast powers, this is in a similar boat to Beam Rifle. Gravity Control - Impact: Using your single target hold on an enemy marks them, allowing Lift and Propel to proc significant bonus damage. Temporal Manipulation / Time Manipulation - Accelerated / Delayed: Similar to beam, select an enemy to be Decelerated or yourself to be Accelerated and you get bonus effects. Atomic Manipulation - Positron+Negatron interaction: combo moves from Group A and Group B to produce new effects on the target. Radiation Melee/Assault - Contaminated: You can tag a foe with the contaminated effect. Other ST Rad Melee powers can then cause a small splash of damage off that target and spend the effect. Specific Combos: Lastly, there are a few "specific" combos which do not fit the other two descriptions as easily. These are either literal A to B in sequence, or somewhat follow the rules of what a combo mechanic is without the other bits mentioned above. Dual Blades - Quite literally *the* combo system, it's the closest we have in CoH to a traditional "combo string". Has Orange Circles. Titan Weapons - Momentum: A slight stretch, but under our definition the momentum versions of powers / momentum-locked powers would be a Combo Mechanic as they are unlocked after specifically hitting an enemy with TW powers (or using Build Momentum...) Martial Arts - Eagle's Claw: Quite possibly the only "strict" combo in the game, Eagles Claw provides a boost to Crit Rate or Damage depending on your AT that lasts only long enough to boost the very next attack you queue. Unlike similar powers in this list, this is a global boost so something like Eagle's Claw -> Fireball could get boosted crit when able. Trick Arrow/Tactical Arrow - Oil Slick Arrow: A unique case, this is a very specific combo where the power morphs if you use specific damage types on it. Energy Manipulation - Stun: Various powers can be used in conjunction to improve Stun specifically. Counting out the doubled entries for stuff like Time/Temporal which have the "same" mechanic, we are looking at ~23 sets total (and 1 AT) off the top of my head that have some form of "combo mechanic" as described. Even then, a few of them are sort of stretching the definition! On the whole though, these are still quite a minority compared to the around ~110 power sets available in just primary/secondary picks. Doing some quick math, this still means 4/5 sets do not have any sort of "combo gimmick". With this laid out, the question I have is why the dislike of them? A chunk of sets have combos sure, and a majority seem to be from melee sets (1 melee AT + 9 melee sets) which may skew some things, but boiled down the combos seem very straightforward except for on Dual Blades. You either have A to B, Mark A so B happens on them, or build up enough A to spend on B. DB stands out as it is A to B to C to D in a strict sense. Is it due to it "stripping choices"? In a sense, combo mechanics do railroad you towards "the combo" for best effect (most of the time) which could be off-putting, but tbh is it any different than filling in gaps between your heavy hitters with smaller attacks? Comparing Fire Blast to Beam Rifle, you want to toss out Blaze as much as possible and in between you will shoot out whatever. With Beam, you have it a bit similar where you want to make sure your main target has Disintegrate at all times, and shoot attacks at your marked target in between applications. A more apt example may be with a "build and spend" set vs not, such as comparing War Mace to Energy Melee. The former you always have all your tools and can swing wildly, whereas with the latter you have a chunk of tools locked behind Energy Focus. However, when you look at how and why you spend your resource things change a bit. For energy melee specifically, you can spend EF on either massive ST damage, a good AoE attack, or a utility option. Each option has specific uses depending on the situation much like how corresponding War Mace powers have best use cases. You would likely not use Mace's AoEs as much in a single target fight, much like how you likely would not default to the ST spender for Energy if you're surrounded, which in practice gives Mace similar "choices" to Energy despite not having a combo coercing them into a certain one directly. Another factor is... well there's not much left to do without combos. Looking above, the vast majority of sets do not use combos and have one and done clicks (for the most part). There's only so many ways that you can really do that before it gets a little... same-y? X attack with Y secondary effect only has so many combinations before its just a reskin, and at that point what sets it apart mechanically from another set with similar attributes? If a new melee set were created, it'd have to have something special to stand out from the pack and given the overall mechanics of the game... it'd likely be some sort of combo mechanic as that is supported easily by the way players input actions. Personally, I am neutral to them but think they are cool and spice up the sets that use them. What are your thoughts?

Or somethin lol! I think I will make it a goal to take an actual crack at this in a more limited sense, as tbh going across the "whole" game may not paint the purest picture 🤔