Galaxy Brain

That's Willpower 😛 I don't get what you mean by player control over damage scaling, unless you mean difficulty options but that is a different thing. Buffs that mitigate damage for you are an outside X factor that all sets can enjoy, its not a uniquely Regen thing. Sure, it may help Regen more comparatively but in total a more mitigative set + buffs would generally fare better. The last point here is basically saying "don't play regen" 😞

Me @ Psy melee in the scrapper tests

Hue hue hue

In my experience, Dark Blast holds up with what is said here. Overall it does less mob-cleary damage but it easily ranks in the top safety picks. I personally love when there are power combos that sort of "bleed" into other Roles / AT's, and having a more utility / controllery blast set that you can deal good damage with at the same time is always fun.

In general, or "when I slap on the standard suite of IO's / etc"?

Fire should not be nerfed, it is not in the same league as TW was compared to it's peers where it outperformed in EVERY metric. Fire is "conditionally" OP I'd say where if outside sources are able to accommodate for it's holes then of course it gets crazy, but until you do that it does follow the appropriate risk/reward design, at least IMO / IME. That is not to say other blast sets do not need buffs, as oh boi.... Side note: the point above about Fire also relates to Blasters in general, which are not the only ATs with these blast powers.

I really dig how this is different from the normal setup of control sets, lacking some of the more traditional powers (ST Immob/Hold). Control sets tend to need to stack up controls to deal with "actual threats", and I like how you also made the T1 uniquely deal with this by making it a more generalized power that also happens to let your controls stack, technically in 2 clicks still but much more "fluidly" than Hold ... wait ... Hold again. That said, I do feel like this should be the focal point of the set, and as such likely should not be the T1 power. T1/T2 is a toss up where folks can often skip one or the other unless it is a secondary, or on an AT that really incentivizes using one or both constantly (Sentinels/Blasters). Otherwise, set-defining powers usually come up at around lvl 6 (T4) where you have a few powers that can bolster that key one like with Assassin's Strike, MM upgrades, 3rd major attack in a chain, etc. Shifting Ray of light there would be great, unless both it AND Dazzling glow can "illuminate" targets. On top of this, if it is *the* thing for the set, adding more interactions would be cool. Simply: Illuminate = -Mez protect (Non Stacking) / -Mez Resist (Stacking) as a base effect would be neat, and then having each power do a little sumthin extra to targets you put the spotlight on would be cool and thematic to light, where you can fill a room OR laser - focus 😉

Agreed on Revive needing... something. At least other revive powers have the benefit of WUMBO damage or control, or at the very least you come back with a boost, things that simply a wakie cannot replace.

1) Shadow Meld / other X factors can be used by non-regen sets, so while yes they can improve regen significantly they can also significantly bolster other armors to where they are all on sorta the same comparison again. WP and Bio can also take Shadow Meld, etc. Related, but outside factors buffing you up (inspirations, allies) goes very far out of the realm of balance past a certain point as it is not controllable / past X point you dont even need the powerset to defend you with so many buffs. 2) Regen as it is set up has the classic dilemma of being invincible until it isn't. 100hps = -100dps. 99dps will NEVER threaten you, but 101 WILL kill you (eventually). We cannot buff the sustain of regen to cover extreme situations, but we can make it's current tools more crafty to be used in "oh crap" scenarios / more reliable.

That is a possibility, but can't the Brute do the same procs without as drastic a sacrifice? The way it sounds is like the Brute cannot compete at all anymore as it has to choose either procs or defense, and that is not the case.

I think the next bit to look at though is: Does the extra survival actually matter? If a Brute and a Tank get out of the same fight / mission alive, then one taking a scoot less damage is sort of irrelevant.

@Infinitum and @Bill Z Bubba tested Tanks vs Brutes, while it is much closer in "actual" combat the Brute still prevails for damage. I wouldn't put too too much into the "Tanks got overtuned" bit.

1) Just putting it out there but the trapdoor mission makes me so salty as going up against 99.99% Arachnos gives it HEAVY biases, an AE map that perhaps simulates a mission may be a more neutral playing field 😉. The map is also a factor there, yadda yadda. Don't get me wrong, it is a solid test but be very wary that it is not exactly neutral. 2) I have some thoughts on the AT here: Though upon a second thought, tackling the Offense vs Defense portion of the equation may have more merit. Having the AT's base form be "not as damaging ... or as tough" as it's peers should be OK, if the idea was that on occasion you could CRANK up the Offense or Defense. The issue to me is more the opportunities are slim both in getting / using them. In short, I feel like they should sorta be like "Bio Armor - the AT" as weird as it sounds lol. Their "Base" form is a balance of Offense/Defense but is not stellar at either. Thanks to their inherent, they should be able to pump up either at a time to excel at offense or defense in a limited capacity. A Sentinel with Offensive Opp should be a real offensive threat in that window, and likewise be incredibly durable with Defensive in the window. It's a matter of making that flow correctly tho. From there, it is not so much "oh, who is absolutely better?" as long as it is on equal-footing / same ballpark and fun to play.

Hey there! So, that is not strictly a DPS tool in the traditional sense but it does give an idea of the "realistic" output per set. For example, Ice may have more DPS potential than Beam Rifle against a single target, but given that was a mission map Beam ended up doing better in terms of "real" speed. Neiska's post covers a bit more of what we see there: Especially these points, which I try to highlight in the "Standard Environment" tests. Things like having attacks with CC, smooth self buffs mob to mob, and so on score sets big points in this test over just raw damage. The highlight here is SUPER important based on the test too. People tote their melee characters as ST DPS kings because of Pylon tests.... well they don't hold a candle to "support" AT combos in that scenario due to how their debuffs play.

Alrighty, to answer the OP's question, no they technically are NOT underused if we go by raw metrics: As of last March anyways, the % of all AT's rolled evens out to: Blasters Brutes Masterminds Scrappers Controllers Tankers Sentinels Defenders Corruptors Dominators Stalkers EAT's (lumping them together cus similar %'s among other things) Sents are right in the middle of the pack in terms of "raw" popularity. If we look at the number of AT's at lvl 50: Blasters Controllers Brutes Scrappers Tankers Defenders Corruptors Masterminds Sentinels Dominators Stalkers EAT's There is a dropoff for sure, which does point to a possible Abandonment issue as players progress with Sentinels. This is shown in the 3rd graph of that post that shows the portion of each AT that is lvl 50, of which Sentinels are 2nd to last above Masterminds which have the SHARPEST decline of any AT. Shown below: Controllers VEAT's Corruptors Tankers Defenders Blasters Brutes Stalkers Scrappers Dominators HEAT's Sentinels Masterminds The next question though is to ask "Why?" For an AT that has overall healthy popularity, why is it that most people do not stick with them to the end compared to less popular AT's? When you look at the numbers, there are nearly x2 the amounts of Blasters, Brutes, and Scrappers as compared 1:1 to Sentinels. Combined together, I would reckon that odds are every Sentinel Player has one of those other 3 AT's rolled. When looking at what a Sentinel *is*, it's a Damage/Armor AT by set design. This is more analogous to the common Brutes and Scrappers more so than Blasters, which they get compared to more due to sharing Blast sets. Stalkers are also in this boat, but are far more specialized in what they actually do which can explain why there are fewer of them than Sentinels on the whole (though more of them stick around to the end). When comparing to their melee counterparts objectively... yeah you can kinda see where they fall short. Scrappers and Brutes are just flat our more durable, and output more damage thanks to their inherents. Stalkers are more comparable to Sentinels in terms of durability, and somewhat analogous with their special changes to their sets, however their ST focus is so much more efficient than the Opportunity mechanic found on Sentinels it is hard to compare. Aside from the novelty of range / their versions of certain armor sets, I can see why many players may play a Sent and then one of the melee damage dealers and come to the conclusion of "something doesn't feel right...". It'd be one thing if the Sentinel's range offered some truly MASSIVE advantages over the Melee counterparts, but in a game where you can passively run 40mph target to target with minimal effort, where mobs feel compelled to rush in and dogpile you, and 99% of encounter time is raw combat, I can see where there is a dropoff. One thing that range does afford is extra safety though, something the other melee AT's cannot boast except for Tankers. Now, something I am truly curious about with this comparison is how Sentinels measure up to them given they now have the same 0.95x damage modifier, on top of Tanks having on average better target saturation for their AoE attacks. That is not to say their offense is 1:1, but I am curious on how close it ends up. Back to the point on safety though, I do feel like Sents are comparable enough to the melee folks to where we can maybe assess a bell curve of "well, Sents deal less damage than all of them but in practice take less damage too" though that needs research. In actual practice again though, it was touched on that past a certain point you have "enough" defense, which is where damage shines over mitigation. If you do enough damage to end a fight in 10s, you only need to be tough enough to live for 10s, that sort of thinking. This is all without diving into Opportunity as well, which I have a whole other thread on with how it's the clunkiest inherent that also may drive some players off the AT when compared to "I hit stuff harder sometimes / I hit stuff harder the more I hit / my hits are bigger" of the other Offense/Armor AT's. Comparing them to Blasters is incredibly tricky as they are not really the same outside of "We deal damage and have ranged attacks". Why it does come up though is that due to the shared ranged concept, when you go to make a Blasting character who focuses on damage, it narrows down to either Sents or Blasters given the rest have much more split roles with either Support or Control (if you consider Dominators ranged). At a base level, the comparison is actually fairly balanced: A blaster does far more output, but is far more fragile in the same situations. Where it gets super blurry is when the blaster gets buffed either by team mates or IO's to where the defensive line is crossed that the Sentinel cannot as easily match with Offense, which is matched by their comparisons to Brutes, Scrappers, and Stalkers with their ability to push offense far higher as well. So.... yeah, that is a lot to unpack but I think the gist is: Sentinels as a whole have a healthy population, but the abandon rate on them is very troubling where so few Sents actually reach 50 out of the population. This indicates there is something causing many, many players to give up on them and seemingly opt for other Offensive characters with armor, or just pure offense. Many players anecdotally feel Sentinels are "underwhelming", which can be backed up by direct comparisons to other Offense/Armor AT's, as well as issues with their designated role as "Ranged Damage", combined with a clunky inherent. Does this mean they are awful? NO! Does this mean they can be improved? YES

This should be weighed against having to slot the same power twice.

I do feel like the way they work is a product of their time. With new things like how TW works (it swaps one power for a near-identical one when you have momentum) it could be feasible to have the same power be different if you have X form running. The question tho is if that is a good idea.

Haha, fair enough! In this case it is not strictly a combo like with EM though, maybe a better catch-all term?

They wouldn't use Lethal Damage and Ignite, come on 😉

Lets start the fire: Is global rech out of line? Disclaimer: My main is a blaster that regularly gets itself to 350%+ global recharge bonus.

Gravity Control says hi 😉 I don't think making the "Force" attacks in the set be actually good as an attack is any more harmful than having Lift and Propel in a control set is. It'd be 2 attacks that are sorta/kinda on par with Pri (or Sec) attacks, and FF already has a niche with those powers being proactive mez/attack hybrids. This would be more akin to making it do what it does better already.

I agree that it is tough to play, and if everything else stat-wise is covered then it for sure has strengths! My issue though is that it gets real fuzzy to even compare things if you have capped stats and team mate coverage as... well at what point does it even matter what armor you have? The bigger issue is that until you get to that point, Regen is hard to play and on it's own or in a less saturated environment it can struggle to match the performance of playing another set, on top of having WP and Bio as "regen themed" competition. Regen SHOULD keep it's theme of being hard to play, it just needs to be ALLOWED to play that way (it really needs debuff res for mechanical and I'd argue thematic purpose) as well as be more REWARDING to play the way it is meant to be up until you have a whole team+ buffing you.

What combo mechanic was added?

I'm sure if you write up a turorial it will not be deleted. At the very least, it it lives on a google doc it can be untouched by mods here.