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this thread is not about easy mode and its not about disliking kb because we dont know how they work...its about an enhancement set that some people believe is under powered. in essence it is about the sudden acceleration set having 3 pieces that enhance kb and then one piece that gets rid of all of that kb, i personally think its a fine set as is but it does have a kind of weird identity. i offered suggestions on how to improve the overwhelming force set as an additional option.

perhaps then they should remove the unique part of it as well..

the overwhelming force set is already a set that does the kb-kd and it goes into every damaging power as it is universal damage the only change i am proposing is that it removes the proc aspect of it and makes it function like the sudden acceleration piece without random knockbacks in it because reasons

well that might be a good guess on the people who use kb-kd most often but i wouldnt be able to say that without a doubt. my intention was to make it a set that belongs in the knock back category as opposed to another damage set, perhaps what you want is a damage set that also has a kbb-kd piece something akin to overwhelming force without the weirdness involving some random proc. perhaps the answer to your issue is changing overwhelming force proc piece to be identical to the sudden acceleration kb-kd piece, that way you get the damage stats you want with the functionality of the sudden acceleration piece.

i initially thought that would be a fix as well and then i realized the set is not meant to increase damage it is not a damage set at all. changing the set to range keeps it within the flavor of the set and doesn't make it just another damage set, we dont need that. the broken part about the set is that 3 or 4 of the pieces enhance the knockback and then the final piece strictly nerfs what those pieces are doing...changing them to range keeps it with in the flavor of the set and will still impact abilities that are knockbacks and don't do any damage at all

i disagree having t waste a slot is exactly why Sudden acceleration is good... it makes you think about how you are building and why. changing it to a toggle would make something i thought was cool into something boring... the full 6 set bonus is not horrible and is worth getting...however i do think it is odd that if you want to take the full 6 piece set that you lose out on damage because half of the pieces are ENHANCING knockback only to have the 6th piece negate half of what the enhancements do... I propose that we change the knockback enhancements in Sudden Acceleration to Range that way taking the full set will not feel half useless and giving another unique option for players...you could still use it as is, it wont break any builds using the one piece to change kd to kb and builds that currently use the 6 piece set will still maintain the effectiveness and even be better off! it can even offer a reason to get the 5 piece set for people that like KB and enhance the range of the abilities instead of increasing the KB.

honestly as a non super number cruncher all of those listed changes seem right on point...making tanks stronger in a way that wont push brutes completely out of the picture seems great! ...i applaud all those who have time and patience to test and the devs who volunteer to make this game great ... great job to everyone!

so i have been following this for awhile but not read every change ...what are the final overall differences from live regarding tankers ... or should i just wait for the patch notes when it gets pushed out

So i just came across this post and i am curious if there has been a finalized pop menu and installation guide for this or if it is still WIP i love using the popmenu thing on the beta server and was wondering if this is perfected i would love to prioritize targets with this for sure and i am too ignorant(read:too lazy to do it myself) to figure all this out .

i am pretty sure vet levels at certain points give them as well but that may just me being crazy

i mean this looks pretty decent and maybe get some solid crits out of hide might actually be ok Rad melee /WP stalker

heh i just found a funny error after updating to the most up to date MRB. Kick unslotted in PVP mode on a Ice/TA corrupter shows it doing 1400 or so damage...im thinking a decimal place was missed somewhere:)

i am not sure what the intention of this bolded underlined barely readable post is ...but seriously adding in lvl 55 enemies seems like its much simpler to do ...or adding an incarnate shift ...either way the way you reacted seems like you are a very angry person and should take break walk around the block and calm down.

I think just adding the ability to go +5 instead of limiting to +4 would be a great change. nothing fancy , no self imposed mini-games, just add a +5 option to notoriety.

this mentality is a road block in real change for the better. SS IS NOT OK as it is. If SS was similar to your D3 Archonwhatsit and had extreme damage during rage and minimal damage outside of it..that would be fine...that is not actually the case. as it stands currently, if you compare SS to other power sets, you will find that the damage outside of rage is minimal (similar to your archiewhatever) but when you have one stack of rage your damage is now on Par with the other sets, and when you double stack it it begins to behave like a stronger feeling character. so if they wanted to bring Archiezard play to SS they would have to make one stack of rage perform like 2 stacks of rage and remove the crash completely and maybe you will have a similar playstyle to your dude...the issue is and always has been SS is not good with out rage and with rage it is super punishing when it doesnt need to be.

my issue is not how severe the debuffs of the crash are...it is that they exist at all you can minimize that all you want by saying it is only for ten seconds... but in reality ...they are debuffs and they suck ... also SS has been balanced to have perma rage...this is why the base line attacks do so little without rage...essentially making rage not the buff it is supposed to be but making it mandatory to do similar damage to other powersets without it... this is not rocket surgery here...the crash is the problem and working around it is the standard build idea for this particular powerset. people trying to double stack rage is not to get a super god buff, but imho make it so rage is actually how it was intended to be in the first place, a super strong buff that has a harsh crash at the end... the changes to it are not sufficient to make it worth while to mess with no matter what convoluted orange or green circles you put around it.

I am trying to imagine a time when doing 90% less damage is fun...regardless of the AT In an ITF when Cyclops hits the T9...no When i am fighting paragon protectors in the black scorpion mission...no Any other enemy type that pops a T9 to drop my damage to nothing...no however at least during those cases my defensive/resistances are not dropped to minute amounts, so again even if you consider that there is thought behind the ability in the IO stage or during low level play ...the entire point is you are trying to find ways around the crash...most other builds more recharge = more damage. On SS more recharge means i wont suck at damage or survivability on current live patch, and with the change it means i am still going to have periods where i suck regardless of the recharge or worse yet more recharge = im definitely going to suck if i stack this awesome damage buff but if i dont have hi recharge im going to fall behind everybody else as far as damage contributions. Its confusing and contrary to every other Powerset in the game. hold on let me tell my friend who loves playing kinetics that when i play SS play another toon because im afraid of double stacking rage, damn everyone else on the team. That doesn't work in a game where every other time you can bring anybody we will succeed as long as people push buttons. my personal vendetta against all abilities with crashes notwithstanding, having an ability that while up makes you "mostly competitive" and then tries to kill you when it is done is not a great concept. At least other Crash type abilities are hail mary type things, that have the intention of pushing you beyond what you may be capable of otherwise, rage is an ability that makes you on par with everyone else...and then kills you. this seems awkward and should be seriously re-imagined and reworked

personally i think crashes on all abilities are annoying and cause me never to take those powers.... regardless of what changes are made if it crashes i wont pick it...in the case of Super Strength ...i wont even pick the powerset edit: also crashes do not add a thought provoking aspect to those sets with them , they just limit power usage, if the team is wiping on a particularly hard boss those powers wont save your team they just delay the inevitable full team wipe. in the case of Rage...why not just give SS a standard build up and buff the damage of under performing powers within the set or give them one similar to dark melee and remove the crash entirely...easy peasy

not sure if this is the place to tell someone but the Reborn bot for discord is offline...

Is there anyway, when selecting vorpal judgement, that there can be an on off button added since it gives defense buff that only lasts like ten seconds after use ...currently whenever that is selected it is "always on" EDIT also when selecting defensive mode for BIO armor in either brute or stalker it does not show the appropriate increase in defensives /resistances

no...the issue is that this entire discussion is pointless...nobody cares in game...nobody is being sent away because they are tankers...nobody is being turned away from anything because tankers are doing less damage... Dominators and sentinels ARE relevant because they also can be slotted to attain the same tankiness as tankers and do more damage...the fact that you are ignoring this is the reason why i begin to realize this is not because balance, but because of some imagined slight that Tankers are ALWAYS turned away in favor of brutes and this simply is not true. the reason this guy gets mad is because the more the threads go on the more people realize is that he wants his favorite class to be something that it isnt. the conversation devolves because Tankers feel like they are not needed when in fact no class is needed. we can either accept that we love this game because of the freedom that allows us or complain because Tankers should be X when they are Y. if this were any other game i would be joining with the OP in his fight for class balance and design but this is city of heroes where i can be a tank on any class and kill things the way i want to nobody has to be left out.

I am also beginning to realize that this is not so much a balancing discussion, as it is a why cant i do damage on my tanker discussion, i can build a dominator with capped positional defenses too, why arent they in this discussion...i am sure i can easily build sentinels to be as tanky as needed to tank 99% of the game...why arent they in this discussion? I have no issue with making Tankers more Tanky and having more content that requires that tankiness. but as said the traditional trinity roles are weird in this game ...so why is this even being discussed...if you want more damage go with a brute if you want more defense/res go tanker. This isnt rocket surgery, i understand that a tiny (un-detectible) group of people min max there speed run ITFs and bring Brutes over tankers, but most ITFs or other task forces that i see are usually looking for anything ...a few months ago before this got leaked, i remember having a discussion about this game and feeling joy at the fact that you could have an all troller team or an all defender team and making it work. Tankers can fill the role they are designed to do, brutes can do it as well, so i feel that this is really a personal inferiority issue ...not an ACTUAL issue that needs fixing .

this is literally the only idea that make real sense...any responses to its to hard or what not...well then dont do it... but if tankers have lost there identity due to IOs than change the enemy. We no longer need to have silly discussions about this and then tankers can feel special because they are NEEDED end game...but be warned one of the selling points of this game to me and alot of other people is that any makeup can do the job...all controller teams can do the job... all MM teams can do the job ... yes as a min maxer i agree that tankers are under developed but ...i also understand that it doesnt effing matter...in this iteration of the game you have 1000 slots...for free...make something else if you dont have fun on tankers...i feel the same way about Dominators...with incarnates and damage potential through the roof why bring a squishy dom when you can bring ...anything else...same with defenders ...you do not need to play tankers...you are not limited to 8 slots and have to pay for more...play something else and then see what happens ....or ACTIVELY join the all volunteer team of devs we have now and help them ADD more difficult content that REQUIRES tankers level of survival.

I would like to point out at this stage of meta...there is literally no point in playing a tanker whatsoever, i play my brute to tank...with taunt...with the intention of tanking as they are purely just a better tank...you can easily get resistances of choice to 90% and defenses as well, depending on the flavor of brute. You can more easily add defenses to a brute to make them equivalent to tankers but with more damage, doing the opposite is impossible. the important question here is why play a tanker at all ?

thanks ill check it out!