marcussmythe

This is a point I think we sometimes overlook. END is a resource. Animation time is a resource. Lockouts are a resource (or cost, more to the point). Clicks are a resource. But player focus and attention, attention that could be used to select the right target instead of the next one, to move away from the bad guy with a sliver of health when the next attack in your chain is Headsplitter (youll get that guy with your next smaller attack, or with a DOT aura), to see that Mob A has peeled off and is beelining for the healer, or that The Group Around the Corner ate some splash and is inbound - or that there is blue shite on the floor an you will move or you will die - that is ALSO a resource, and a valuable one. This isnt meant to be ‘git gud nub’, or even to say that a set that takes work to perform well is bad - that can be enjoyable work! And getting that last bit of performance out of a complex set by dint of long practice and focus is great fun. But I -guarantee- that Ive got more situational awareness on a Claws/WP than I do on a TW/Bio, that I can be a better team leader, that I can play better after a long day when Im tired and want to goof off. And I think we should think more about this in how we look at sets.

Claws doesnt really stand out in any way. Its not super good or super bad. It gets decent AOE, and a ranged attack. It has a wierd damage builder. Its got no real cool riders or debuffs or mechanics. And finally, its core ‘schtick’, good DPE (and its DPE is very good!) has been reduced in value over time by ED, Free Fitness, Sets, and finally Incarnates. Its fun, its fluid, its got a big cone, a melee cone, a melee radius, a ranged attack, and its performance is in every way reasonable. Ive played it, and if a concept that fit it struck me, would play it again. Its much much less fiddly than later sets with their combo points/combo chains/momentum/etc. On a tank, I might appreciate a low mantenance/attention set with solid AOE, better single target performance than spines, and none of TW’s management. Theres just not much that needs talking about other than to say its a solid set with little mental overhead. Logical parings are SR, Dark, Invuln, and similar sets that have no end regain mechanic and or high end costs, and stuff like Bio thats fiddly and requires your mental focus and animation time, but Id not question claws on any pairing. Not every powerset has to have a manual and a list of mechanics. Sometimes its nice to have something where you can just press the button and have it work. Id also consider Claws in combination with WP on any AT that gets both, for the sheer carefree play of it all. This could be really useful on a tank or similar character, or in situations like Apex where you can be punished if you dont react to changing in game situations because your busy micromanaging your primary and/or secondary.

Thank you very much! Ill be incorporating a chunk of this into the final version, I believe.

Id go with WP. Im a proud owner/operator of TW/Bio, but WP seems a better pairing - a low maintenace defense set that feeds END. I think the damage loss from not having Offensive Adaptation is in real play situations going to be at least in part offset by not being animation trapped and unable to hit a ‘dont die button’, or having your cycle interrupted by the need to hit a dont die button. I cant speak much for or against Ninjitsu - but Id think clicky mezz prot would be a downer on a long animation set, and I dont recall if the Scrapper version has END tools - END tools are very valuable to TW.

I agree that ‘hits one target really hard, no harder than that, actually harder than any other set’ is the EM ‘hat’. I think an implementation that matches TW on single target, but trades TW AOE for less END and Execution micromanagement, would be about right. It doesnt necessarily have to get there with raw damage - likely a form of intelligently applied buffs and debuffs that focus on that single target role would be ideal. (A stacking damage buff or resistance debuff, maybe fairly small but where, say, you can refresh and add stacks, would get us there for dealing with AVs and GMs, without blowing up PvP or other applications)

Well, if it were consistenly applied, maybe? But Regen would like to have a talk with Statesman about ‘minimal changes’.

That seems to be a recurring theme. "Hey, weve come up with a great idea to save/fix this old powerset/AT!" "Thanks! Lets make a new powerset/AT using that tool. Youll be fine..." "But.. but... ~cries~" I am given to understand the Brute Fury Mechanic began design life as a tanker tool...

Well, the SR Sentinel gets either/or of Practiced and Master Brawlers, and Master Brawler further modifies the behavior of other powers, so.. Id say a strong yes? We might also consider how we assign bonuses to them. My Scrapper and Brute would find a soft-crash unstoppable at current values quite nice, while the tank would find little value in additional S/L resist - but might well relish temporarily having Brute level Dambuff (as the Brute temporarily has tank level resist!)

Stalker Invuln, IIRC, Combines Elements and Energies into a single power, and its version of Invincibility is basically 'perma-saturated'. Its a heckin upgrade to the set.

My Bio Scrapper is a deathgoddess, but she handles like an F1 car or a Jet... unstable and has to be manually managed constantly.

Thanks for looking at it, and the feedback! If you can see any places Ive done the first part of the job (get all the resistance) inefficiently, or left loose change on the floor, let me know! More specifically and point by point: 1.) Im aware of the lack of the knockback protection. One of my specific questions is 'where would you cut slots to add KB Protection?'. 2.) Ive got both those on my Scrapper, and.. never felt like they gave me much, at least never at a time when I needed it? 3.) Do you feel a strong need for +Rechg? Theres already a lot of global rchg in there. 4.) Hmm. Thats a good point. Again, though... what resistance do you give up to get more regen? Do you think a bit more regen pays for itself, instead of the appropriate resist, when the Incarnate AVs or Lord Recluse is pouring all the damage into that damage type? And agreed as to Dark Regen - its Dark Regen that has me here instead of newer-better-stronger-faster Resist Sets like Radiation. 5.) Im not that worried about DPS. The slotting in my attacks is mostly to feed resistance or recharge, and its breaking that up that I'm looking at with a furrowed brow. ... Recharge debuffs are in fact an issue, but I've not found them all that painful on other characters, once you get to endgame levels of +Rchg. That said, ive not tanked endgame in many, many years. And an accolade is always a handy plus 1. Good call on Incarnates. I like the -DAM in Void on my Spines/Bio Tank. The inital choice was fluff based - this character is a compromise between efficiency and concept, its just that 'really crazy survival' is part of the concept. Ill probably trade around. I looked at DDR from incarnates? But my sense of DDR is 'if you dont have nigh immunity, your only slightly delaying the inevitable. Slightly'. Ive seen mob groups crush defense capped, Barrier-Incarnate-activated Bioarmor to -100% DEF in a few seconds. (Banished, Pargon Police Khelds, and Vanguards being the worst offenders here). Given that, I just dont see the DDR from the Incarnate paying its way on a set that doesnt start out with at least some. But to my earlier point - I agree that KB protection is necessary, that more regen would be nice, and that more recharge is always desireable. You are completely correct, you always want more regen, recharge, and the like. But what would -you- cut for those things? Which slots, where, do you think are worth giving up, for what you get in exchange? My intuition is that we start with the Toxic/Psi resists were getting from 6 slot purps. Thats some free slots, and all they are giving me is Toxic Resist - Im overcapped Psi. Losing Toxic hurts, but it is rare enough that if I hit a situation where I still want 90% Toxic, well, thats why we have orange candy. Im much more reluctant to tank Energy, because endgame LOOOOVES massive energy damage.

Build attached below. Ive made every survival focused choice I know how - figuring if I'm going to go tank, one might as well focus on resilience (else play a Brute or Scrapper), save inamuch as Fire Melee is chosen for reasons of fluff and to try to get -enough- damage for enjoyable play (I am aware TW would be more damage. I already have a TW, and dont want to try to feed it END while playing Dark Armor) I have a few questions on the below build: 1.) Can you see any low hanging fruit I've missed in survivability, particularly resist/heal/regen based. I have de-emphasized DEF based survival, as Dark Armor lacks Defense Debuff Resistance. 2.) I ended up with a build I was very happy with but somehow overlooked the very minor detail of KB resistance. 😞 Id love some input on where you would slide it into the build with minimum disruption. 3.) Yes, it went a bit nuts with Nrg resistance. My perception of late game CoH is that it consists of Energy, Psionic, Toxic, and Smashing/Lethal Damage. Dark Provides S/L, Psi, and a solid basis of Toxic and Energy which I then leveraged as high as I could get (Radiation with its high energy and toxic resist was also attractive, but I was enamoured of the utterly insane self-heal of Dark Armor, as well as its CC potential). Do you feel I am overreacting. Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.962 http://www.cohplanner.com/ Click this DataLink to open the build! Level 50 Magic Tanker Primary Power Set: Dark Armor Secondary Power Set: Fiery Melee Power Pool: Speed Power Pool: Leaping Power Pool: Fighting Power Pool: Leadership Ancillary Pool: Mu Mastery Hero Profile: Level 1: Dark Embrace -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), GldArm-3defTpProc(3), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(3), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(5) Level 1: Scorch -- Empty(A) Level 2: Fire Sword -- CrsImp-Acc/Dmg(A), CrsImp-Dmg/EndRdx(5), CrsImp-Dmg/Rchg(7), CrsImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(7), CrsImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(9), CrsImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(9) Level 4: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(11) Level 6: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A) Level 8: Boxing -- Empty(A) Level 10: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A) Level 12: Combustion -- Arm-Dmg(A), Arm-Dmg/Rchg(13), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(13), Arm-Acc/Rchg(15), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(15), Arm-Dam%(17) Level 14: Tough -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(17), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(19), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(19) Level 16: Weave -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(21), ShlWal-Def(21), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(23), ShlWal-Def/Rchg(23) Level 18: Taunt -- PrfZng-Dam%(A) Level 20: Build Up -- GssSynFr--Build%(A), RechRdx-I(25) Level 22: Death Shroud -- SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg(A), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(25), SprGntFis-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(27), ScrDrv-Dam%(27), ScrDrv-Dmg/EndRdx(29), ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(29) Level 24: Murky Cloud -- UnbGrd-Max HP%(A), UnbGrd-ResDam(31), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(31) Level 26: Oppressive Gloom -- AbsAmz-Stun(A), AbsAmz-EndRdx/Stun(31), AbsAmz-ToHitDeb%(33), AbsAmz-Stun/Rchg(33), AbsAmz-Acc/Stun/Rchg(33), AbsAmz-Acc/Rchg(34) Level 28: Fire Sword Circle -- SprGntFis-Dmg/Rchg(A), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34), SprGntFis-Rchg/+Absorb(34), ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(36), ScrDrv-Dmg/EndRdx(36), ScrDrv-Dam%(36) Level 30: Obsidian Shield -- ResDam-I(A) Level 32: Dark Regeneration -- ThfofEss-Heal(A), ThfofEss-Heal/Rchg(37), ThfofEss-Acc/Heal(37), ThfofEss-Acc/EndRdx/Heal(37), ThfofEss-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(39), ThfofEss-+End%(39) Level 35: Incinerate -- SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg(A), SprMghoft-Dmg/Rchg(39), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40), SprMghoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40), SprMghoft-Rchg/Res%(42) Level 38: Greater Fire Sword -- Hct-Dmg(A), Hct-Dmg/Rchg(42), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), Hct-Acc/Rchg(43), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(43), Hct-Dam%(43) Level 41: Cloak of Darkness -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), Rct-ResDam%(45) Level 44: Mu Lightning -- Tmp-Dmg/Rchg(A), Tmp-Dmg/EndRdx(45), Slv-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rng(45), Slv-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(46), Dcm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(46), Dcm-Build%(46) Level 47: Ball Lightning -- Rgn-Dmg(A), Rgn-Dmg/Rchg(48), Rgn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48), Rgn-Acc/Rchg(48), Rgn-Dmg/EndRdx(50), Rgn-Knock%(50) Level 49: Cloak of Fear -- CldSns-ToHitDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(A), CldSns-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(50) Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A) Level 1: Gauntlet Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A) Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A) Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A) Level 4: Ninja Run Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A) Level 2: Health -- Mrc-Rcvry+(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(11) Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A) Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A) Level 50: Pyronic Radial Final Judgement Level 50: Resilient Core Paragon Level 50: Cognitive Radial Flawless Interface Level 50: Banished Pantheon Core Superior Ally Level 50: Rebirth Radial Epiphany Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve Level 0: Portal Jockey Level 0: Task Force Commander Level 0: The Atlas Medallion Level 50: Melee Core Embodiment ------------

And sadly undermines what I found the most attractive on Beam Rifle - the idea that there might be some character who, lacking a debuff powerset, could shut down the rather silly regen that AVs have. Side note - why do AVs need regen debuff resistance, when theyve explicitly given every debuff powerset enough -regen to blow right past any debuff resistance the AVs have? Odd decisions.

A lot depends on the precise target. +4 AVs may be hard to get enough DPS out of a Brute, but at the same time, higher Brute toughness will be helpful against the really dangerous targets (Apex, Tin Mage) IF you can eke enough DPS out of the Brute Chassis. Note that secondary and primary matter as much as AT. Some AVs and GMs have high resist vs specific damage types and low or negative on others. Do your research. Some secondaries are very strong in a crowd - but many of the toughest AV fights happen without a crowd, or with a crowd that debuffs you (having Warwerks robots debuff your regen rather defeats the purpose of bringing a crowd with them). DEF based strategies may be questionable at the highest levels - +4 AVs, and especially Incarnate tier AVs, do not miss very much. Currently some very impressive things are being done in this area over on the Sentinel side, inasmuch as range is very, very good mitigation, and you can (barely) eke enough DPS out of at least one sentinel primary/secondary combination to crack even +4 AVs.

Have TW/Bio. Damage is dumb, as is regen. However, its a mixed resist/def/regen set with no defense debuff resistance and very limited resist to psy and energy, the main endgame damage types of concern (toxic also gets an nod) Rad is a res set with heals and a lot of utility, and solid resists against the Endgame Damage Types. Truely awful stuff (Tin Mage Bobcat, Goliath Walkers, Banished +4/x8) will debuff your Bio defense to nothing, pour in exotic damage you cant deal with, or just hit like 5 lined up trucks (screw you, Bobcat) (Funny note - if you have hover, you can ‘hoverblast’ Bobcat with TW - your TW barely outranges her normal attacks, leaving just focus and shockwave. She can and will still kill you with those...) Rad will probably be more survivable - but then your a resist set with scrapper resist caps.. and we might end up chasing survivability off into brute/tank land. Either could be great. I like my TW/Bio for All The Damage, but Rad will outtank even defensive stance bio.

They do not resist -Res. I need to math Sonic some. Though the Sent version carries a much smaller res debuff than defender... Rad does pure energy damage and carries a DEF debuff, so could carry Achilles Heel easily. Your probably still correct about fire, though. Still waffling on secondary. Rad’s regen, heal, resist, absorb, recharge, etc. make a strong case. As a heavy user of Bio on scrapper and brute, Im concerned about the very poor energy resist - and at the +4 Incarnate AV level, defense isnt very much defense. Im very much looking forward to hearing your feedback on how Energy Aura is working for you when you get to the place where your doing special sentinel stuff.

Really? Why in heaven's name not? -Daggers- Stack! They really lean hard on their 'Buffs/Debuffs Rule the Game' narrative, dont they?

Well, it worked, I'll give them that. Took a shot at Tin Mage. Neuron First - got Neuron, couldnt handle Bobcat. Dropped out, mailed myself all the super inspirations, timed them, burned bobcat, but she spawned two goliaths on her way down, couldnt take them both at once, couldnt separate them, and dropping out to send myself more super inspirations would respawn her, defeating the purpose. I suppose I could have friends mail stuff to my global, or mail two or three full racks of various super inspirations, but at that point, is it really even doing the thing? Looking at Bio vs Rad on Sentinel. Bio would do a bit more damage (good), but (at least on stuff like Tin Mage or Apex) you really dont have/cant afford the crowds that Bioarmor wants to justify its existence, I dont think. OP is getting amazing results with fire, but I keep glancing over at beam rifle and going '-150% Regen as part of my attack cycle'. Thats.. really hard to get away from. Now, with 87% Debuff Resist on the 54 AVs, its going to take a bit over 5 applications to floor them, and I dont think you can keep a 5 stack with Disintegrate.. but it would take most of the starch out of their regen.

I largely agree. I think a better design paradigm would have been something like a sentinel, with more damage (enough more that in game damage push amounted to about what scrappers do after we count the increased DPS uptime being at range offers) and less survival than the Sentinel Secondaries offer (because being at range IS a powerful form of defense - though not enough to be ‘range is your defense’ for launch blasters). This ranged damage dealer would sit in place of the Blaster, and we wouldnt have needed sentinels. As it is, I think Sentinels kinda take it in the shorts compared to Stalkers/Scrappers/etc. on damage, but my Sentinels (who is not lvl 50 Purple, Ill grant) has always been far less likely to die in missions compared to my scraps/brutes/tanks at the same level.. suggesting to me that with range taken into account, Sentinels are over-defended and under-damage. This is a good arguement for pursuing bioarmor on a Sentinel, as it lets you trade survival for damage. That said, OP is dropping GMs while wearing ‘Utility’ radiation armor, rather than ‘Damage’ Bioarmor. But OP would probably be doing that with a Blaster, given his obvious focus on task.

... Because of course they do. Yannow, I dont think its an 'anti melee' thing, so much as a 'No Clue How this Works' thing. The early WoW Raids had a bad, bad melee penalty, and CoH was probably going through the same thing as a part of the learning curve. Ive got a Fire/Bio in her late 30s. Maybe I'll finish that out and report back how its going. The more I roll it around in my head, the fact that the Sentinel version of Bioarmor is more agnostic to being surrounded, coupled with the fact that Hover is the best mitigation single power in the game, might well get me there. Hmm.

I keep Shadow Meld as a LOTG Mule, and Moonbeam to grab those lovely bonuses from a Winter set - but could see dropping them as well. Horses for courses. I do like Shadow Meld as alpha/debuff stack mitigation, and having a DEF buff that doesnt eat resources has helped me on long, solo, high-difficulty TFs and the like.

Well, and is more DPS the gatekeeper here? It seems to me the buy in for cool tricks is survivability, once you reach the ‘can crack regen’ threshold. Hydra Spit and Blue Circles were the main killers for me in Apex - and thats as a TW/Bio Scrapper. Of course, a hoverblasting sentinel is going to eat way less damage due to being at range, so bio might be worthwhile there - but at the least Hydra Spit doesnt care how far away you are - and Radiation while lacking Bioarmors innate DEF likely just builds for ranged DEF rather than a typed rainbow. As for Beam Rifle vs Fire - Fires got higher straight damage, and a less resisted damage type. That might leverage it past beam rifles -Regen once you get a very high recharge and proc cycle. As for Psi - I assume the draw is the extra DEF out of link minds?

You may well be right - Im just coming off being touched in a bad place by Apex.

Updates: Lusca down, Lanarru the mad down, Kronos down. I dont think Apex is doable. DPS uptime is basically zilch due to blue circles of death. I MIGHT be able to master it by knowing when the cast is coming, dashing out, and then back in.. but even so, this is an endgame boss fight that favors range and debuff ability. Really, I think with the spread of surviability to all ATs via IOs and Incarnates, coupled with the vital nature of -regen and the mass amounts of basically impossible to mitigate damage/debuff of endgame 'stuff', melee ATs are probably the worst choice to try to do this stuff with. :(

Thats an impressive list - lots of things Ive not done/tried on my TW/Bio, and quite a few that I dont think can be done by melee, or anyone without serious debuffs. Ultimately thats what 'silly X tricks' come down to at endgame, I think... ability to debuff (especially regen), and ability to mitigate incoming damage (range, etc.). I think Sentinel may be a good choice for such things, maybe Beam/Rad?