marcussmythe

Id start by leaning in, or at least respecting, what the AT already does. Scrappers crit, lets do damage. Tankers AOE, lets throw some and be tough enough to handle what comes. Each is going to have a temperature point. Each point of RES or DEF in a set 'costs more' in build space (powers, slots, IO bonuses, Incarnates) than the one before. (Consider - some DEF is free. Some is cheap. But if your trying to cap Ranged or Energy or Toxic or Psi, those last few points require more and more sacrifice out of your build) Same for each point of plus damage. At the same time, each point of RES or DEF is worth more than the one before in terms of 'time to live' - until you hit the value 'wont die before I can defeat it' or 'wont die ever', beyond which further investment is value 0. (Unless you decide that ITF is no longer enough, and you want to solo Tinpex, or something - suddenly all you already invested in DEF or RES may have almost NO value unless you stack more on!) So my general thought is to build for 'enough to do what I want to do' and then layer on as much from the other category as I can. In -your- case, Id build the scrapper for just as much damage as I can get, and just enough survivability for teaming and soloing not-super-damaging things (Your SR, right? So maybe aim your scrapper for softcap and go for ALL THE DAMAGE). Similarly, Id be tempted to take the tank for 'Incarnate Softcap AND lots of RES', again stopping before I WRECK my offense. Play to each ones strengths. Go for a comfortable middle with the brute, I suppose. What I did was a version of that, but on a single character (I suppose you could do -3- builds on -each- of your three... but that might be a bit much!) Build 1: Built for comfort, not for speed. Does everything reasonably well, and is the most -fun- to play. Designed to exemplar well and then, at 50, to generate decent AOE and Single Target, while also having the def/res to survive clearing out solo task forces. This lets me exemp down and task force/mission smoothly, and still run high setting missions for EXP/INF/Fun, and for clearing up to the AV on solo TFs. Build 2: The same build that has enough AOE and survival to clear efficiently up to the AV on a solo TF couldn't kill it - too much single target lost. Thus build 2. Tough ENOUGH (just.. barely) to survive the TFs/AVs Ive met, just barely - but having gone all in on single target damage, supported by incarnate choices and temp powers. Its not a sub-2-minute pylon-buster Mastermind/Titan/Crabber/Whatever, but its enough for AVs and GMs. I clear the TF with build 1, and switch to build 2 for the big bad if need be. Or I switch to build 2 to hit Adrenaline Boost+Buildup (w/Buildup Proc)+Gloom (w/Buildup Proc)+Energy Transfer and glory in numbers that I havent seen since long before ED. Build 3: Sometimes, 'generally tough enough' isnt tough enough. The current version of Build 3 is Softcap with 1 in range, Incarnate Softcap when saturated, 90% Resist to Smash, Lethal, and Energy - and thats before incarnate buttons get hit. Build 3 isnt slotted out yet (winter sets are pricey!) but the idea is to be able to be as survivable as possible. Offense is sacrificed here - no procmongering, some attacks wear less than 6 slots... but offense isnt what that build is FOR. It seems to me you would be well served to do a more-damage scrapper, a more-tough tank, and a balanced brute.. and then reassess from there. I anticipate the builds will merge a bit over time, but it should give you something fun for whatever you want to do.

RE: Incarnate Content - Does a mechanism exist to fairly easily give enemy groups access to Incarnate Abilities? Now, lore-wise, it would only be the rarest of foes that had such - but if we consider the Battalion story lines I've heard suggested (Battalion as inter-dimensional Well-Locusts, moving from world to world and dimension to dimension, consuming worlds and wells as they go), it would make sense for foes on that level to have at least low level access to incarnate abilities. Consider a group of baddies chain triggering a mix of destiny slots, or responding to aggro by all firing off a judgement as one. It would get your attention.

Its @Linea (and, I think, others - but its Linea's mostly I think) 801 series. 801.0, .1. .2, etc. So just search 801.1 or whatever in AE. They are not story focused, just timed kill alls with groups of really awful baddies on a map. .1 is harder than .0 ,and .2 beyond that. While it advertises itself as 'for an incarnate team', good play or a carefully tuned build or both will let you function in there solo, even at high diffculty - but for my own part, it was the -hardest- Ive had to play, since incarnates - multiple hospital trips and inspiration reloads, lots of running away and reingaging, lots of opening up all my powers and temp powers and thinking about how to engage before I engaged. Do me a favor, though. Go in the very first time at, say, 801.2 at 8/+4 and let me know how the first pull goes. Its a blast - and if a player can do that with AE, I can only imagine what developers could do in that regard - or maybe on-board some of the players who focus on that sort of thing to help them make 'post-endgame' content, at least at the 'challenge incarnates' mission level.

I have of late been running very high difficulty, overly tuned, AE Missions focusing on debuffs, CC, CC Resistance, Exotic Damage Types, Endurance Drain, and the like. I will say that these have, at least in their own universe, greatly changed the way I assess 'undervalued' tools. AOE Sleep without aggro generation is a godsend for breaking up superpacks. Multiple Elite Bosses at +4 will not be AOE'd down, and Id rather be single-target spiking them and picking off minions with incidental AOE than leave them standing. Phase Shift becomes a valuable tool. Endurance Drain becomes a welcome relief - not because it neuters the mob (nothing does!) but because it HELPS. I think if the sort of stuff some players have been exploring in custom AE missions was made more general, it would help drive a playstyle other than the current rolling AOE deathball. It would also likely not be much played, unless the rewards it granted were buffed - and given that we have a tradition in CoH of 'hard content' not equalling better rewards, I do not anticipate it could or should be. But the challenge is there, if we want it, and missions and villain groups far more challenging could be implemented fairly easily - those some AE designers tell me the hard part is not making it hard, it is making it hard -but still doable-.

Rage would be fine on scrappers, as-is, and they should have it. The only place where a balance problem should occur is if they increase the buff value of Rage for scrappers - IE making it a higher % on the Scrapper version than on the tank. Typically this is the case - scrapper vs tanker buildup - but Rage has a much greater contribution, so increasing the buff value might overtune the set slightly. Outside of that... if SS is fine on Tanks with a Tanks Brawl Index by comparison to other Tank sets, then changing the brawl index its running through to that if a scrapper should leave it fine compared to other scrapper sets. Anyone who is telling you it would have to be nerfed for scrappers because it would be too good is to my mind admitting it is too good on tanks compared to other tank sets (which I do not think is the case, but I havent run them side by side)

Thank you for the feedback! And this is exactly the sort of thing I was thinking about - Fire can be more than just a farmer, and still 'tanky enough' to tank most anything that needs tanking (how much the moreso in teams, once buffed!). And other sets can afford to dial back their investment in survival for more utility/damage, especially for times when you arent tanking 4-towers recluse or suchlike. More broadly - I ANTICIPATE the reason you saw more value from the resist focus version is that with resist or defense, you are well served to first fill out one, before pursuing the other. Fire Armor gives no defense (like elec, and NEARLY like Dark - it has a little), but also has less resist to work with than those sets - so capping out your important resists (S/L/E - Fire you get for free, but F/C/N matter little at 50) gives you more value than having mediocre resist AND mediocre defense. (the moreso since, as you noted, sets without MASSIVE DDR, or serious overcapping of their defenses, have defense at all only when it pleases the mob designer to allow it - Ive come to mentally treat any defense that isnt coupled with 90% DDR OR about 5-10% over cap as essentially nonexistent in survival planning against the mean lvl 50 mobs)

BA suffers a couple of mechanical drawback compared to War Mace - notably that War Mace has one -very- high damage per animation attack (a result of an old tweak, one which axe did not recieve) that really strengthens its single target performance, a slightly greater variety of CC in WM than BA, and finally that BA does Lethal - which is slightly more resisted than Bashing, and by mobs one encounters more often (in my play experience, at least). Battle Axe offers a few things in return - primarily uniqueness, inasmuch as one avoids Meta/FOTM. Also, by carrying KB on every attack, it has plentiful slotting opportunities for the Force Feedback +RCHG Proc. As such, I would be tempted to pair Axe with sets that feature long cooldown, high value powers - low or no crash T9s, powerful attacks in secondary, etc. As such, perhaps Axe/Shield. Use FF to lower recharge time on shield charge for AE bombing and with OWTS for high difficulty content. Ive also heard of very successful Axe/Ice combinations. While Bio is a powerhouse set, I would be more inclined to pair Bioarmor with sets with massive built in damage (TW, Natch), very fast animations - as Bio can be 'click now to not die', and/or defensive bonuses (Katana!) as Bio can be a little squishy as armor sets go - espc if your running in offense mode (and you chose Bio to get the insane damage buff that is offense mode - don't lie) With either of the above, and particularly with Axe/Ice, you get to go forth knowing that people will look at you and go 'Do WHAT now?' when they look at your powers - something that is simply impossible if your power-sets involve the words fire, rad, bio, or titan. 🙂

She is a gloriously reliable proc and that whole set usually rides in Energy Punch on my generic builds. Its nuts... we may be making Energy Melee a Thing Again...

Gentlemen, please.

Thank you, Infinitium! Thats another interesting take.. going long on broad resist base, and not bothering with 'one in range' softcap. What I think is really interesting is this gives us essentially 3 approachs to Invuln.. Ive got a 4th, Incarnate Softcap with 1 in range, but its exotic resist are sooo terrible... and I cant say for certain which one is 'best'.. only that all of them would be largely immune to the game as it now exists. Cool stuff.

Thats an interesting approach. I considered going in even bigger time on DEF (as you do), but I really wanted to cap out REnrgy. Now, its possible that the extra DEF past softcap with one in range will hold off cascades more reliably (as my approach is barely past softcap at 1 in range, and invuln needs its buffer as it only has 50% Resistance to DEF Debuffs), but even if the DEF gets debuffed and/or the autohit debuffs come in, Im just more comfortable having higher resists to psi and nrg. As for damage out - a rough read suggests your approach is going to put out slightly more damage before buildup comes in. Might be worth it. I may kick the tires on both versions on test. I could match it by dropping EP from rotation and picking up TF, centralizing slots in one more heavily slotted attack - but it would cost me one of the Energy Resists that I was chasing - and I am always uncomfortable having 'hang in the air for a week' in my rotation. Too much can go wrong during that animation. Still, interesting points, and I may well do both versions on test and see which works better for me.

I find flight an excellent place for the RCHG Resist Winter-O, and along with Hover opens the road to Afterburner as another LOTG mule - but yes, if you want to press the performance envelope, 'able to fly under their own power' is a bad character concept. Amusingly, if they would just get rid of the graphics of the jetpacks, or have an option to do so, I could live with it. 🙂

Thank you for the feedback! Energy Transfer Self-Damage adds up FAST in a heavy combat situation - not so much that it kills you, but that it absorbs so much of the regen that would otherwise be spent keeping your health stable. That said, it is nowhere written that Energy Transfer has to be used every time it is off cooldown! Other attacks should hold aggro just fine in a team situaiton (indeed, given its casting time, I often avoid Energy Transfer when team tanking - I hate the way it slows my ability to react to changing conditions). So it would mostly be an issue if trying to solo those TFs - Not sure if thats a thing that will happen, although Page 6 may change the space of what is possible. Any thoughts on the additional psi resist and recharge (version 1) vs the Darkest Night (version 2) approach? My gut tells me to accept the loss of Afterburner and Unstoppable (as valuable mules and as a final Oh-No-Do-Or-Die button) in exchange for the heavy -DAM debuff out of Darkest Night, but Im not certain.

The idea is to make a third build for an Invuln/Energy Melee character as tough as possible, while retaining enough QOL to render play enjoyable (it does not matter how good the character, if it is not fun, it will not be played - Ive an existing Single-Target-Damage Focused build that sacrifices its travel power for damage - I may shed a little bit of damage to get Flight back!) The easy answer, use other power sets, is taken as given. DM would give a heal. MArts would give DEF. Stone would be far tougher, Willpower has 3 layers built in, and Radiation carries large absorb shields. But I want to see how far we can take this chassis. While QoL is needed, serious AOE and Single Target Offense are not drivers - Id like enough to contribute, but this will be the third build on a 3 build character - existing builds take care of the need for exemplar, AOE, and Single Target duties. Build spoiler-ed below: Features: Resists (with 1 Proc of the Tanker ATO) 90%: S/L/E/N 61.2% F/C 52.2% T 55.79% Psi Defense: (with 1 foe in Invincibility Range) 48.2% S/L/F/C 46.4% E/N 23.8 Psi 26.3% Melee 25.4% Range 26.3% AOE (With invincibility saturated) 64.2% S/L/F/C 62.3% E/N Middling Debuff Resists, growing out of Invuln. Slotting takes Rchg and Run resists to 70% - would like to get that to 90, but I do not see where I would give things up. Unstoppable present for last-ditch emergency - Toxic or heavy F/C Void Radial - Damage Debuff Parlytic Radial - Damage Debuff Longbow Radial - Healing (healing was felt more valuable than an additional small DEF Buff) Rebirth Radial - Additional Healing Melee Core- Additional healing and res (With saturted Melee Core and a single ATO proc, secondary resists climb to 78% Toxic, 81% Psi, and 87% F/C - others overcap) QoL: Travel Power (Flight) plus Afterburner as well as one AOE and several fully slotted attacks. (These powers also provide useful set bonuses and mules, and even afterburner thus contributes. Futher, afterburner can be used to spike DEF to near incarnate softcap, even with 0 targets in range) Concerns/Roads not Taken: I fiddled with a 'layered survival clickies' approach involving Rune of Protection interleaved with the Rebirth (or Barrier!) and Melee, but I expect it will be more survivable if I am giving myself less opportunities to misclick Soul APP was considered for additional -Damage, but I felt the loss of the -RCHG resist IO in flight, as well as the additional RCHG lost with the Afterburner Mule slot, was not worth the price. Alternatively, Flight or Afterburner might be returned to that version at the cost of Unstoppable. - but see QoL concerns. Best alternate version might be to drop Unstoppable and Afterburner (accepting the loss of some recharge and psi resist) to pick up Soul Tentacles for an AOE Immob and Darkest Night for the -30% Damage - which SHOULD stack with the -DAM from Void and Paralytic to comfortable numbers Problem Situations look like they will be (as always) really PSI heavy elements - 26% Positionals and ~50% resist is not very good. On the other hand, psi damage is not all that common, as well as Toxic (even more vulnerable). I THINK Melee and Rebirth will carry me through those, but I am not certain - if anyone has more experience than me with what it takes to tank the sewers portion of Apex, please let me know! Im also (of course) concerned with debuffing, but I THINK the combination of very high resists and defenses will cut down on debuffs landing and causing cascade failures. All that said, Ageless -Debuff Resistance may be a backup option. So, in essence - what am I leaving cheap on the floor? Do you think the payback on dropping Unstoppable and Afterburner for (and their attendant RCHG and Psi Resist - the Afterburner Scaling Resist would relocate somewhere else, at the loss of a LOTG) is worth it to pick up Darkest Night, with its END Cost? What do you anticipate of the various endgame high-threat circumstances being a problem, that I have overlooked? Version 1 (As above) Version 2 (Darkest Night)

Nerf Fridays. Their OP, proven by how much players pursue them.

For the melee types, who cant CC their problems away, nuke their problems away, or hoverblast the incoming DPS down... youve gotta go for survival. Youll note that Linea’s ‘I can do this’ tank builds focus very heavily on survival. TBH, I expect my hoverblast soft-cc elec/sr sentinel (I got an AOE Sleep just for YOU, Linea!) will do better in there than my ‘DPS down +4 AVs’ Tank - Big girl just cant handle the incoming well at all, since shes leaning hard on offense (and can afford to in normal content - the 800 series makes things like Tin Mage look trivial in terms of stressing your survival tools)

Well, and a lot of the volunteering they want (when I read it) suggests that the only thing they have a use for is serious coders. Id happily help with anything, but Im not a coder, not an artist, and not an IP lawyer.

I had not considered slows. How much slow is in Ice? Might be sportin.

Your friend is right. With Regen, you want mitigation, and a separate 'layer' from healing - youve already got healing/regen. You want to take less damage that needs healing. Katana is the gold standard for this on Scrappers. Claws could also work for the knocks - knock is some of the best CC in the game, in its own odd works-on-bosses way.

It appears at this point speculation has stalled. The status of page 6 is rather like that of schrodinger’s cat.

Right - Radial wont do much extra damage on an AOE/Aura, (low damage power, low chance of proc). However, the Core proc on an aoe or aura, even if low probability, has a much higher impact on damage out - because even a single proc on a DOT Aura will buff the follow up chain of attacks.

I should probably take another run up at this. My last trip into superpacks was a 100M investment and some statistically unlikely outcomes for a massive loss - and I swore off. Mostly upcrafting yellows and oranges for my ‘market money’ now, as for whatever reason, I find it rewarding.

So.. what seems to be happening is core is more beneficial to the degree you have base damage attacks (for it to buff), crits (to multiply that buff) a damage aura (to trigger additional stacks of the buff), or a fast animating attack chain (to trigger additional stacks if the buff). To the degree these conditions do not apply, the scale slides more and more to radial. And we dont have a super clear picture on where this ‘flip’ occurs - but it looks like its somewhere between ‘scrapper with auras and tank without’ Does that seem reasonable as a first takeaway?

I see a high vet level as an expression of ‘I love this character’. And you do get rewarded - you have by vet lvl 100 probably built the -perfect- version of that character (for you). Its as good an Axe/Ice Scrapper, for you, as there can ever be. Now you get to play it. Every mission (build for exemplaring - youve got 3!) Every Task Force (build for incarnate TFs, tune it for The Very Hard Way!). Every Badge and Concept! (Maybe Ill layer all the plus fear on my Dark Tank, or see if sets plus incarnates can make END drain a reality! Or Ill just get all the travel powers and explore every nook of the world) The reward for getting there is getting to be there. Enjoy it. Maybe tweak it - a respec every few months as you learn more about what works for you in what you like to do can keep it fresh. I, personally, would rather have a single, beloved, multi-year Vet Level Silly -character- that I know like the back of my hand than ten pages of ‘50, Sets, Incarnates, and a concept I banged out in mids/found on the forums’. (YMMV here - theres a lot to be said for knowing how to play every AT well - and I know that I dont) Vet levels are love letters to your creation, and the world it lives in. It says that you love what you wrought together, and love being in the world you made it happen in. What else is there?

A fair point. Even if we do not go with your implementation, I agree that they could be MUCH less obtuse to the reader. Whilst I enjoy playing 'Can I drop a Dam/End/Rchg for a Dam/Rchg so I shave a .1 second for a seamless rotation without impacting proc %s... most people do not, and should not have to do so.