Bill Z Bubba

Oh yea... couldn't even catalyze our AT IOs.

BZB scrapper. Cuz he's the original. Wouldn't even have to respec.

So many times...

As I stated, it was one MORE data point that affected MY opinion. It was your choice to come in all twisted out of shape about it. Are you now stating that Human Only (is that better?) isn't a viable build for someone that just wants to play and enjoy their Khel, since that's all that matters?

HO here means Human Only since it related specifically to an all Khel run.

Considering the AT usage numbers from two years ago, and considering our rule was bring whatcha got even if it ain't 50 for all of those runs, it's entirely possible that the Khel run had fewer properly tricked out builds. I was on a fully T3ed HO PB but I didn't track the others. But given our less than rigorous demands, I'd be shocked if we had any runs without a few sub 50s. Well, the farmers were probably all 50 but I missed that one.

Just another data point that affects my opinion of Khels. These were all single AT, max diff, kill what's in the way, ITF runs with my SG. Khels had the worst time by a bit and the most deaths by a lot. I will note, however, that we had a lot of HO builds and I have no doubt that a full team of T4ed triformers would do far better. But still... ouch.

PF, you've stated TWICE now and attributed to me something that I have not stated and that isn't true. You should quit that. What I *HAVE* stated is that on the ride to 50 using nothing but SOs, the brute and scrappers lower HP and inability to even get TO the softcap is going to be a hindrance and must be taken into account. I haven't mentioned larger AoEs and Max Targets besides noting that Shadow Maul is 180º. Were tanks on SOs vastly slower back on live? Yes, they were, They also didn't have SR or DBL-XP or SOs at level 2 or the higher melee damage mod that they get now. As for SR being an end hog, it's not. Its toggles are very standard at .26 end/sec, it only has 3 of them and you don't even have to click practiced brawler until you're mezzed if you don't want to.

I'm honestly asking... how? What exactly does a Khel bring to a team? The versatility of off-tanking versus added damage output as the flow of battle changes? That's certainly useful in the very early game and it was useful back in the days before IOs but it has absolutely zero use in the post 50 game now that I've seen.

Sounds like you should slot more end-red in your attacks.

That's just it though, thanks to SOs at lvl 2, once you 3slot Stamina with EndMod and be sure that everything you use has at least 1 endred in it, there *generally* won't be any end issues. Offer not valid for my dark/stone tank. No, I am not saying that low level tanks will clear maps faster than scrappers. I am saying that low level tanks have so much mitigation that they will get to crank up the diff more and far earlier than scrappers and brutes and spend far less time running back from the hospital or even between missions because of it. And none of this is to say that things won't change in the 30s but a scrapper and brute running FF, FS, Evasion, Weave and CJ won't even hit the softcap. They stop at 39.2%. Brutes don't get evasion until 20 and lucky at 28. It's horrifically worse for the scrapper with lucky at 28 and evasion at 35. That's a damn long time with crappy AoE defense. The tank, on the other hand, doesn't even need weave. It has all 6 SR powers by level 18. So for my test character above, I can hit 44.46% defense to all positions by level 20 without touching the fighting pool. Edit: Oops, this is with 3slotted CJ. If you really don't think that much extra defense is going to play a huge role in the amount of downtime running a SO only build, I'm not sure what to tell ya.

Hopped on beta, just happened to be next to a pylon... imagine that. Threw T4 Pyronic Core at it. 496.89 Base Fire Damage, 5 ticks of 26.08 fire and then 1 more tick of fire for 24.83: total = 625.12 Had already crafted T4 Mighty Core; swapped to it when I was able; 496.89 Base Smashing Damage, no DoT Whoa... Void Core only did 342.68 ... that's weird.

Except when it is a competition. Some of us even compete with ourselves using different builds.

Pretty positive they don't but I can test later. At the very least, even if they are doing identical damage, cast times are very different.

I'm trying to think of it in terms of how they were initially introduced. But then I remember all the screaming. Most of it from me. At release, Khels started out with debuffs that Cosmic Balance barely corrected if the Khel was on a full and balanced team. We finally got the devs to nuke the debuffs, but then we were left with an inherent that only functioned properly on full teams and dropped to 100% useless while solo. But even defenders now have an inherent that scales when shifting from solo to teamed. While I'd like to see something similar with Khels, again, not this thread. Just trying to come up with something to start with. I have plenty of characters that I've given up soloing with so I'm not pushing for that here at this time but I can't drop it from my head completely when I look at the VEATs soloing without issue AND bringing huge buffs to teams.

I have zero Kheldians now. Deleted the two I had after spending a night staring at Mids trying and failing to make something worthwhile out of my Warshade. Can't log in to verify but I think I have 2 bio tanks, a bio brute and 2 bio scrappers. Compared to a fully T4ed fire/time blaster, and the following in various states of incarnate-hood: time/fire def fire/dark troller earth/earth dom dark/time troller emp/nrg def earth/fire dom fire/dark cor dark/pain troller arch/ta blaster sonic/dark cor and quite a few more squishies that aren't 50 yet. So, no, your guess is wrong. Do I favor melee? Absolutely. And I have many non-bio melee characters, my three claws and SR using Bills at the top of that list. As for your experience with Khels, considering how many characters I have with better mitigation, better aoe AND ST damage and have it all without being mezzed when I drop out of dwarf form, I'd have to argue that no, compared to every other AT, Kheldians are not a balanced package at all. Compared to running at +0/x1 w/o bosses, sure, they're fine. Please remember that back on live, I had both a WS and a PB at 50 long before any tweaks and IOs and got them there mostly solo just like I did everything else. They're both cool as hell to watch, especially the warshade, but these days that's about the only positive thing I can say about them. Yes, we've all seen what a fully kitted out MFin WS can do right up until it hits a hard target and runs out of fodder. Then it folds like a wet napkin. No, I don't consider that balanced at all, again, when compared to everything else we can choose to play. But I'm not here to fix ALL of many problems with Kheldians. I was just asking for ONE tiny thing that would at least allow them to bring more to a team than they do now.

But it will stack with other set bonuses that happen to be 7.5%.

No, really, why not? They need help. A lot of it. Edit: But change the buff from other EATs. Slow resist don't cut it.

Fresh SR/DM Tank. Long story short, it really doesn't matter what you use. SOs at lvl 2 and DBL-XP make this game contemptibly easy. I mean, I could have spent this same two hours just powerleveling an alt to 50 but, honestly, this was more fun. And now I'll delete the character cuz I already have enough DM and SR users. 5:45am Lvl 1: Focused Senses and Shadow Punch. 18.5% Melee Defense, 115 HP, 7.5% DDR Can't buy SOs yet. Got DBL-XP, Athletic Run but no other P2W junk. Lvl2: Took Smite. Bought SOs. Endred in FF and Sprint. Acc in SP, Smite and Brawl. Heal in Health. Endmod in Stamina. Run in Swift. Jump in Hurdle. 18.5% Melee Defense, 127.9 HP, 7.7% DDR Lvl 3: Added slots to FF and Stamina. Added 1 Def to FF and another endmod to stamina. Lvl 4: Took Focused Senses. Slotted Endred. Now 5:56am, 22.39% Melee, 18.5% Ranged, 17.9% DDR, 159.04 HP Smoke break, coffee brewed, man it's cold up in MA right now. 12f. Brrr. 6:16am Lvl 5: Added slots to FS (Def) and Smite (Endred.) lvl 6: Shadow Maul (Acc.) Went to KR, talked to Detective for Radio. Replaced Endred with Run in Sprint since I have it bound to G and detoggle it when I hit combat. Waiting until 7 to update SOs. Melee 21.83%, Range 21.83%, DDR 20.6%, 196.94 HP Have I ever mentioned how much I hate that I can't click on the tram when the doors are open? 1st mish, Hellions. 6:30am Lvl 7: Slots added to ShadowMaul (Endred) and Stamina (Endmod.) Woot! Stamina fully slotted! Bumped all SOs to lvl 10. Bumped diff to +0/x2. Melee 22.75%, Ranged 22.75%, DDR 21.4%, 221.6 HP 2nd mish, Vahz. 6:40am Lvl 8: Practiced Brawler with recred. For now, only going to click it IF I get mezzed. MR 22.57%, DDR 21.72%, 245.55 HP 3rd mish, CoT rescue Ayn Race 7:02am Lvl 9: More def in both FF and FS. Bumped to +0/x3, made sure bosses were turned on. Is that on by default? It should be. MR def at 26.23%, DDR 25.81%, 277.91 HP 4th mish, more Hellions, big map, dinged twice. 7:25am Lvl 10: Took Dodge Lvl 11: 1 slot each in FF and FS. WOOT! FF and FS now fully slotted 1endred/3def. Melee at 36.93%, Range at 28.08%, DDR 34.45%, 344.31 HP 5th Mish, Skullz 7:48am 2 hours in. Lvl 12.5: Took Evasion and slotted with an Endred. Bumped all SOs to lvl 15. Melee 38.33%, Range 29.11%, AoE 18.5%. DDR at 38.04%. 381.56 HP Lowish recharge 180 melee cone, 4 ST attacks with SP, Smite, Brawl and origin power. ZERO faceplants. ZERO end issues. Still no amps, no P2W attacks, only using insps that drop. Cakewalk.

The resists are only scaling, don't kick in until at 60% health, and come with Dodge, Agile and Lucky. Can't get Lucky until 18. (So many possible comments....)

I don't think you fully grok the power of high defense and tank level HP and what it means for slotting other powers in the low game. So I just cranked up an SR/DM tank and I'll update this post over the next couple hours as I drink coffee, wake up, and solo street sweep/run radios with this combo using NO amps, double XP and nothing but SOs.

I was saying it IS very satisfying. Huge PBAoE that sends a whole spawn flying into the air is niiiiice.

Not that I ever recall but of course we can't even use CoD to find that out now. As far as I can remember, aoe size and target caps were identical between brutes and tanks until the recent tank buffs.

Proof that I am a very lazy man. I haven't crafted a single IO since the first month I was on HC.

Everything I build is based off of Mids and CoD.