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I have a question about the choice of slotting Crushing Uppercut: Hecatomb w/ the Unbreakable Constraint (%Smashing) proc. Is there an advantage in picking the Purple %Smashing Hold proc (Unbreakable Constraint)over the PVP %Lethal Hold proc (Gladiator's Net) for the attack that already does Smashing damage? I'm aware of the PvE damage scale difference between Purple %Damage procs and most other %Damage procs (e.g. Touch of Death), but is there a difference in PvE %Damage dealt between Purple and PVP procs?

I think @BrandX has nicely identified the core point about this thread's title, and the point that is missed by several participants. There aren't many 'Orthodox Energy Melee' players who are asking for a re-imagining of a set we already enjoy. A limited number of numerical (and if possible, animation) tweaks is all we are asking for. Beyond such changes, and the proposals are essentially another set. The only proposal I've read for a change to the set's powers (other than numerical/animation) that I think doesn't fall into the overhaul category is swapping the T1/T2 powers for Tankers. I will admit I haven't put much thought into this one (I assume it is either to have a more-optimized attack chain at higher levels with fewer power choice, or something to do with %proc-ability) but I am generally open to such ideas. The one aspect that makes me skeptical is that /EM was originally a secondary ONLY (Tankers) and so any imbalance issues that come from making it a primary for (original) CoV ATs have an aged history. After that suggestion, I don't see the proposed changes so much as a 'slippery slope' but more as a Wile E. Coyote no longer standing on firm ground: 1) Replacing Stun: As I wrote earlier, Stun had a place in the game (solo Tankers, especially while leveling). I concede that later additions to the game (Live and Homecoming) had made it less necessary for a solo Tanker to rely on Stun. I think the situation with the EM Stun is similar as to Placate on Stalkers/VEATs (in the Homecoming version of the game): Both are powers that can serve a purpose for players, but neither serves the purpose of defeat-as-many-as-possible-as-fast-as-possible, and as power choices each basically gets in the way of an 'optimized' build. 2) Adding AoE attacks: There should be very few players who don't recognize that standard 'rewards per unit time' (XP, Inf, Drops) don't improve with defeat-as-many-as-possible-as-fast-as-possible, and that AoE damaging attacks are the mechanism to achieve that... yet the nature of the game (especially on Homecoming, where rewards are easy to come by) is such that not every Melee class has to be generalist with multiple AoE. Even if the DPS math may not in their favor: EM Melee Ats can get more AoE (attacks/control) from Power/Ancillary/Patron pools... if they want them. 3) Adding combination gimmicks: These are a hallmark of later power sets: as fun as it may be to spitball new combinations, adding such things to an original power set would make it a different set than classic Energy Melee. Please feel free to propose a completely new set with the proposals, and let the proposed new set stand on its own merits.

I have a Dark/Time, I can share my thoughts on the primary. This character is a "concept" character, with compromises made in power choices. It has more 'attacks' than necessary, so YMMV if this is useful advice. Some general notes: This character has very high Global Recharge, and +Range bonuses as well. Dark Blast: I skipped (see Pool Choices) Gloom: This is where I have the Defiant Barrage ATO. I have this 5-slotted for set bonuses. Umbral Torrent: I love this power, slotted with the KB->KD Overwhelming Force piece. With extra Range, this is good tool for aggro-ing the next group in a big room. Aim: I added this to the build very late, because Chronos was a better choice for me (as it cycles every 20 secs with a 90% Build Up chance) Moonbeam: I have it with 5xSting of the Manticore and a Gladiator's Javelin (2x proc damage). It is part of my standard attack chain in fast mode. Tenebrous Tentacles: I skipped. I didn't want to immobilize enemy mobs for my play style. YMMV. Abyssal Gaze: I skipped. As above, I generally want mobs moving (towards me)... and the /Time secondary provides Holds. Life Drain: I have this 6-slotted 3xTouch of the Nictus, 2xGladiator's Javelin, 1xCloud Senses (3x %Damage procs, and then Acc, Damage, Healing) Blackstar: 6-Slotted (2x %Damage procs) and 5-set bonus. This character's Pool choices are: Sorcery (per concept) Some folks will be quick to recommend Rune of Protection for Blasters. I took it because it fit in with the concept; however if you want it you need 2 earlier powers from the pool. Mystic Flight (Travel Power) w/ KB protection Unique. Arcane Bolt: 5-slotted as an attack (set bonus, 1 %Damage proc) Rune of Protection: I have it available roughly every 2.5 minutes with a 90 sec duration. I only use it when necessary. Fighting: (Tough is an IO mule, Weave holds a set bonus) I don't kid myself that I'm getting great defenses/resists from this. Speed: 2-slot Hasten (50+5) (Epic) Force Mastery Personal Force Field: I use this an IO Mule, although occasionally I'll click it for fun. Repulsion Bomb: 6-slotted w/ Annihilation for set bonuses. I don't often use this attack unless I'm feeling silly (or want some -Res) Temp Invulnerability: A 1-slot IO Mule Note on costs for sets: There are many good sets that can be had for relatively low cost, especially these days. You can keep running the Summer Block Buster mission to get Overwhelming Force pieces... this is a decent set for attacks and also used to sell well.

I agree! And then my villains can take the Inf directly out of the hero banks rather than make it on the market.

St. Martial always feels like the least complete of the Red Side zones. It's one thing to have so many mission arcs adjacent to the Golden Giza/Johnny Sonata, and having a zone event is nice, but I feel like there are several aspects to the zone that feel like they are missing something. The SE Corner of Devestation. I think there are a few instanced missions, but the ones I can thing of pretty generic 'beat up Wailers' and/or 'find the NPC'. Has this are been demolished for Luxury Condos, is it just leftover destruction from Lord Recluse's takeover? The NE Corner where Longbow is hiding out. After Nerva, the last thing I should be asking for is more Longbow missions, but I'd like something more specific than the Johnny's Girlfriend arc that explains their peculiar presence there (and as the Zone event). The Devouring Earth. I have a vague recollection that some of the Grandville contacts (Von Grun?) send you back here, however... this is one of the few zones where I can remember the DE kidnapping/terrorizing civilians (NW corner). I expect that there would be some in-zone contact who would care! By comparison, the shirt story arcs with the Carnival and Freaks seem like long-form stories, but none of them really explained much. Vivacious Verandi does stir up some madness between the other groups, but otherwise I don't know what is going on with those other groups. On the plus side, IIRC the post-Praetorian Mr. Yin story takes place in St. Martial.

Energy Melee is literally: "Punch"... and sometimes "Whirl".

"Just because you can minimize someone's objections doesn't mean their objections are minimal."

You should feel free to continue to minimize my objections, but my general objections to the mechanic sets include (1) trying to understand the mechanic and (2) getting distracted by the rings around the powers and the extra icons which appear to help me keep track of the mechanic. Energy Melee already has a mechanic (%Stun), but it is nice, quiet, and is playing along without bothering me.... at least not since the Invulnerability set rooted my Inv/EM tank to a single spot while stunned enemies madly dashed all over creation.

Just quoting myself because my opinions hasn't changed. I've played several of the combo/gimmick sets, and the only one that I regularly go back to is Street Justice... and that's because that's the one I've played that I can basically ignore the combo effect for the entire life of the character (lvl 1 and up). I don't object to other players enjoying the gimmick sets, but in general I don't like having to think about the gimmicks while a character is leveling up (or playing at lower levels). I can definitely see the appeal of a perfectly constructed attack chain on a level 50, even if it still works when exemplared down. I'd like to have a well-performing, simple no gimmick set... like Energy Melee used to be.

/agree I will often plan for high recharge, but there comes a point at which I find diminishing returns. Sometimes the extra 10% is really not contributing (unless you are slowed, I suppose?) There are really only a couple of cases where I'll pursue maximum recharge with almost no concern for other possibilities: 1) Perma-something. Domination is the ur-example. There are some other power-set specific choices (e.g. Mind Link) but I'm not sure that I'm routinely challenging my characters in such a way that demands powers be constantly on. 2) Nukes, and other "long"-recharge powers (e.g. Recharge Intensive Pets, Unrelenting, click powers that take the Gaussian's %Build Up). For the nukes, shaving more than a couple of seconds can improve speed, but I find that it depends on attack chains and things that contribute to it (like Build Up). I have found that for my Crabbermind, I want Recharge Intensive Pets available as soon as they (naturally) expire... The higher tiers require LOTS of recharge to make that possible. With enough recharge, Unrelenting becomes a self-buff as well as an occasional self-heal. I should note that I generally chase set bonuses, and I see the big Accuracy bonuses from Purple sets as being pretty useful, such that even if I don't need the 5-piece +Recharge bonus I will try to keep a 4-piece Accuracy bonus. I think this is true: If you are specifically chasing %procs for inherently medium slow-recharge attacks, you will probably want both global +Recharge and global +Accuracy to make such attacks part of a regular attack chain.

It's been a while, so consider this post my standard request for Purple and PVP sets for Fear and Taunt. I don't know why Fear has been ignored, I especially would like a Purple %proc that allows for Contagious Fear (similar to Coercive Persuasion for Confuse) as that would be a natural piece to consider for the single-target Fears, making those attacks slightly more relevant for 50+ characters. I can understand why Taunt would be ignored for PVP (must consider the ability to slot these pieces in attacks), but I feel like there is some design space to be explored. For example, I feel like some set bonuses which improve Defenses (more evenly than the existing Taunt sets) and/or a %proc that Debuffs ToHit (possibly too powerful?) or even just another %Damage proc would be welcome additions to the options for Taunt powers.

I'm fond of the the idea of PEATs (Praetorian Epic ATs), where the character has the option of trying different paths of hybridization with the Devouring Earth. It doesn't necessarily make any sense why this would be tolerated in Praetoria, but the world concept is such a mess (post-incarnate) anyway. The different Devouring Earth have enough different powers/pets that it seems like we could brainstorm some primary/secondary power sets... plus BEES! Perhaps less radical: Mirroring the VEAT Widow/Soldiers, I always felt that the IDF forces (Seekers / Rangers) looked as if they could be morphed into an EAT. The Seeker animations (not to mention backstory) might be a little hard to make work/justify but I feel as if there must be some options for different power paths to support/oppose Emperor Cole.

Circling back to Stun (from the perspective of a Tanker) before the week ends... Swapping the placement of Stun (level 20) with Whirling Hands (level 16) may feel like not such a big deal for folks who Power-level to 22, but getting Whirling Hands' PBAoE at level 16 is one of the things that helps the Tanker feel like it is actively taking as much aggro as possible. I can't see why a Tanker would prefer to have a 'Control' power in its place, single-target or otherwise. It's around level 16 that most ATs start to feel like they are coming into their own, I wouldn't delay that feeling for EM Tankers. Since my first AT a launch was an Invuln/EM Tanker, I can sort of remember what the idea was for Stun (at launch, pre-CoV AT), because Tankers weren't able to otherwise (quickly) handle certain enemies before those enemies debuffed/controlled/injured affected the (solo) Tanker. Stun was a decent power for the solo Tanker. IO sets (specifically the Global +Defense pieces), have gone a long way towards reducing the need for a Tanker to specifically worry about certain enemy mobs. I'm all for making/replacing Stun with something to make it more useful, but since the power has become so skip-able I'd rather see the slot turned into some sort of passive power that supports the concept of 'Energy' (without adding new mechanics to the rest of the Energy Melee set). TBH I felt like it was the port to Stalkers (and PVP) that led to the nerfing of Energy Melee, as even without the dedicated Stun it was possible for a lowly Tanker to seriously disrupt the flow of an opposing character in PVP by using Taunt and layering Melee attacks on opponents. Once Stalkers could sneak up and WHAM! I felt like the set got a disproportionate amount of hate.

I've played a villain all the way to level 50 using contacts and story arcs, and by the time the villain is lvl 45+, the contact dialogue definitely feels like the character has made a serious name in the Isles. I pay some measure of attention to the badges my character collects as well; the villain-side text generally gives me a better sense of villain accomplishment than the blue-side text (which always had the flavor of 'Cub Scout badges' to me). Arbiter Daos, who initially appears to have your life in his hands ends up practically subservient to you. You can revisit some of those Mercy Island contacts who have changed their approach to you. If you finish the Patron Arcs, you've pretty much put your (former) Patron down and demonstrated to Recluse that you can handle him if you need to. By the time you are level 45, it is likely that you've faced off against almost every member of the Freedom Phalanx and the Vindicators. I can't write for any other villains, but there are a significant number of 'heroes' who have been funding my villains with their purchases on the Auction House. I've got lackeys customers who don't even know who their master supplier is. Edit: I'm aware that there is lvl 45+ content which isn't radically different than lower level red content, but I think a lot of this sort of complaint is addressed in the pre-incarnate, non-RWZ Red side storylines. If you want to get some press as a Villain, do the SSA "Who Will Die" as a villain instead of as a hero.

This is what I do with all of my toons that use PVP enhancements. The Unique pieces (%Procs and +Globals only) will be attuned and slotted ASAP, but I will use lvl 50 versions +5 boosted (keeping an eye on Recharge, for %Proc reasons) once the character is near the end of their build. Even with Enhancement Diversification penalties it is possible to eek out just a little bit more (Defense, Damage). Attuned pieces are swapped out with the level 50 respec, otherwise unslotters are easy to come by. My characters typically accumulate a significant number of PVP drops at levels lower than 50; I will either use market roulette to get them to a saleable piece or simply burn an extra converter to attune it myself. The latter option has some level of (inf) waste in it, but it does save time.

From the before times: I remember the distinct feeling that Castle was once handed his behind in PVP by a character using Energy Melee .

The 'post-respec disappointment' is usually in one of these categories: 1) The minor improvement I was seeking is barely noticeable or otherwise conditional. The disappointment is in the wasted time doing the respec more than anything else. 2) I give up a power that I'd grown used to having but felt like I could do better with an alternate choice. I'll experience a form of 'Phantom Limb' syndrome as I go to click a power I no longer have. 3) I'll try a radically different build. Often I'll use a separate build on the same character, but if I don't feel like spending lots of inf I'll try a respec instead. Occasionally the rebuild merits keeping, but often not. And the biggest regrets relating to respecs: 4) Not recording my Power Tray configurations and trying to remember the configuration for all the trays. 5) Not emptying my enhancement trays before the respec.

/truth We've had several long-running threads that have all essentially landed just as outlined by Troo.

My Stalker (and Scrapper) opted for Moonbeam (Soul Mastery). Those characters weren't going to have a pet, and weren't going to take another (non-primary) attack or a control... and each build felt that Shadow Meld (Soul Mastery) was the better choice. One wanted it as an IO mule, the other wanted it as and insurance policy for Defense debuffs. I like having the Snipe available, both fast and slow. I'll use the snipe (slow) when the opening Assassin's Strike misses; Streakbreaker will guarantee it hits. I'll toss it in my attack chain when I have a runner or otherwise the next target I've tabbed to is one that I don't want to move towards. Both Epic snipes are very proc-friendly as well.

So... radically overhauling the perception of players (who feel like they are missing out on content, but unwilling to experience that content or simply unwilling to accept that there is content they don't enjoy) is off the table? 🙂

There has been great advice, I just wanted to add some advice about Endurance and Recovery: Increasing your Max Endurance helps by giving you a higher base to play with, which in turn helps with Recovery. Max Endurance can be increased with Accolades, Day Jobs (Duelist?) as well as what was mentioned already in this thread. Be aware that some of the +Recovery Day jobs effects are 'outside of combat' I can't recall if there is an IO set bonus that increases MaxEnd; typically IO sets either provide Endurance Discounts (yay!) or Recovery bonuses (every little bit helps). In terms of play-style, be aware of what you are spending Endurance on. I like to keep Sprint & Ninja Run toggled for almost all of my toons... but before I can get my Endurance situation under control I will often toggle these off. For Tankers, there is no reason not to slot Endurance reduction in Sprint. If for some reason you want a Sprint with a Stealth enhancement, you can use one of the Prestige Sprints. You may also have to slow down your attack chain. Fights can be frustrating for Tanks, but that's a common issue especially at low levels. Recovery is like Regeneration in that a higher number decreases the amount of time between ticks to refill the blue/green bar. It should be noted that because of the actual formula, adding a more Recovery/Regeneration is a game of diminishing returns, especially considering that the Fitness Pool is inherent. Even so, since all AT 'spend the blue', I value Recovery more than Regeneration... but as this is the Tanker subforum, I should note that Regeneration considerations are important for Tankers (and their higher base HP).

There already exists Red Side content for this; I'm not sure what Villains and Rogues would be gaining by just going to another zone.

For some values of "best".

From the PoV of an Invuln/EM tank from launch day of live: What I miss is a set that delivers top-notch single-target damage. I don't want (or need) anything more than this. The one existing PBAoE (Whirling Hands) is fine for my tank. I find that it compliments other taunting activity. The Stun secondary effect has been fine since the original game modified the behavior of Stunned enemies; they used to wildly sprint-stagger away from the attacker. If PVP requires a change the secondary, I would accept this. Stun is not a particularly useful power on the ATs with resists/defenses, especially considering how late it comes in the power sets. My own first (simplest) idea would be to straight-up replace it with a passive power that conserves Endurance. I definitely think the animations need to be revisited: including the 'target is already defeated' aspect of Energy Transfer.