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@TygerDarkstorm made several very good points, especially about knowing when to just let the henchmen go. The only other thing I can think of is to pay attention to the stance of the henchmen. If they are on bodyguard, they ought to be close to you and retaliating only against what strikes you (or each other). It could be that your MM is taking a LOT of damage (especially AoE) and is sloughing much of it off onto the henchmen. If you are dispatching the henchmen willy-nilly, they probably will get split up and get picked off like the minions they are. Robots are slightly less susceptible to this because they are nearly 100% ranged attackers.

I've been looking, but the search-fu is weak with this one. I could be thinking about damage auras: And/or I could have been thinking about pet/pseudopets with %procs. Pure Pseudopet Anecdote: I had been running /Traps with 2x %-Res, but NO slotted accuracy (and using a Debuff Defense set instead of Accurate Debuff Defense, because bonuses). I made a simple change to add Accuracy, and I believe I am seeing more appearances of red triangles than I was before (keep in mind Acid Mortar isn't a great %proc power anyway, but the rest of my build uses the same Annihilation piece, so I am really hoping just for timer resets on the resistance debuff) Level 14: Acid Mortar (A) Undermined Defenses - Defense Debuff: Level 50 (*) Undermined Defenses - Defense Debuff/Recharge: Level 50 (*) Undermined Defenses - Recharge/Endurance: Level 50 (*) Undermined Defenses - Recharge: Level 50 (*) Annihilation - Chance for Res Debuff: Level 50 (*) Achilles' Heel - Chance for Res Debuff: Level 20 (*) Accuracy: Level 50+5

Water Blast is a very good AoE set, but I can't imagine any circumstances where it would be a good Single-Target DPS choice... except by using the AoE against single-targets. Personally: I find Water Jet (enhanced or not) to have been a very disappointing attack on my Water Blaster... such that it's the attack I dropped from the build (at level 50) and never looked back. Also personally: There are only few cases where I consider using %damage on a Blaster's attacks; I have found better returns by slotting attacks for set enhancements (especially Global Recharge, but also +Endurance and Global Endurance Discount) and which inherently boost Damage, Accuracy, Recharge, Endurance Cost to improve DPS beyond what %damage can offer. For most of the Very Rare Offensive sets, I'll usually opt to include a %damage piece in place of the straight Damage (because of ED)...even on fast-recharge powers. The occasions when I will %damage a Blaster attack are usually: Builds where I already have the 5 Enhancement set bonuses (that would otherwise go to waste), AoEs (because, MOAR targets), typically cones, The AoE itself is relatively low damage, The build's primary/secondary itself has a lot of damage-over-time (or a delayed effect) in the chosen attacks (to front-load damage) Mathematically: I am usually not opting for a non-set %damage piece if the %proc chance is below 35%. My calculus is: If it takes two hits of a fast-recharge attack to defeat a mob(ile) when %damage happens, and also two hits to defeat a mob(ile) without %damage, then the %damage isn't really helping the build. I freely admit that I will sprinkle %-Resistance pieces into attacks if I can't immediately see a better use for the slot (anywhere in the build)... %-Res seems like a better choice on teams than %damage, and it also seems like a better choice against targets with large sacks of HP.

I took a Thugs MM to 50 (and BEYOND!) and I have to agree that it feels 'too unruly' for my taste. I can see why folks like it as a primary; for me I felt as if I had to micro-managing the henchmen and pets. I certainly could play this character better, but it simply felt like too much work. The trivial complaint I have about my experience with Thugs is this: (Because of the melee focus?) even while on Bodyguard mode, the henchmen were picking fights with more than one spawn, especially when playing x8 content....even without Gang War in play. There were plenty of maps (you know the ones) where I'd find myself fighting 3 (or more!) spawns... and for my build, the secondary wasn't particularly well-suited for dealing with all that crazy.

IIRC, the Seeker drones don't proc %damage.

But, who do the pearl-clutchers blame on a team with no Tankers?

In case it wasn't made obvious: The AH's pooling means that a crafted Enhancement at Level X can be bought as the same enhancement at any other non-attuned level (the enhancement could exist at), not just as an attuned version of the enhancement.... level 25s can become level 50s for example. There are many places in my builds where I don't want (or would not otherwise get) a set bonus, so I want the highest level version of the piece (to boost). It's also a good strategy for PVP pieces, since they will scale without needing to be attuned.

It's been said. The passive-aggressive comment is pure projection. Your first post in this thread is a derailment into passing judgement on how other players the game. Check yourself.... you literally questioned the motives of rhetorical(?) players, which is practically the definition of an argumentum ad hominem! @KaizenSoze asks for a recommendation for a cleanup character, I offered a specific choice, with rationale. I still think Masterminds are the best at cleanup.

Equip Robots should have Resistance slotted, not Endurance Reduction (for page 5). IIRC the henchmen get a significant portion of their Resistance from it, but even if you don't want that, it is still better used as a mule.

Is that why there weren't enough attacks to your liking?

I have been on a LOT of Market Crash, and even more Penny Yin TF missions in the Terra Volta reactor (where it is possible to have a LOT of spawns in that first room). Each of these TFs offer a LOT of opportunities to have aggro from multiple Freak spawns, because the spawns are for all intents adjacent to each other. These complaints about Tankers misbehaving feel to me like folks trying to make a complaint stick against an entire AT (or two, if we invite the Fury-loving Brutes) because somebody got squished in a game that offers multiple ways to self-rez. There is no shame in having health go to zero. If that happens on a PUG, hopefully everyone on the team adjusts. (*1) It sounds like the issue isn't with an AT being played "wrong", it's the players that are "playing wrong"? (*1) I'll send some of my Blasters ahead of the Tanker, specifically because of the aggro cap. I can tell when teammates are hanging back to watch me embarrass myself! I don't mind, as I was given both a green bar and a blue bar to use.

Market Crash is a very particular instance, especially if trying for the Valet Badge: Any character that barrels in is going to start the Freak attacks. There are spawns that are near cars/trucks, and spawns that are not. For example: Ignore the Skiffs! Best practice is to pull enemies away from cars/trucks but not try to herd them. It is important to see which enemies are still attacking cars/trucks. The team really cannot stay together in order to save all the cars/trucks. The team does have to split up in order to save the cars/trucks, so it isn't as if any one AT can take the blame (unless it is a character that stands next to a car/truck while taking enemy AoE) Now... if the discussion is about the Freaks in anyone of the preceding missions of Market Crash... I mean, they are Freakshow, so they will rez. I don't think it is fair to expect everybody on a fast-moving team to slow down just to see which ones do rez.

Are you sure you weren't teaming with Strawman the Logical Fallacy?

If the Tanker is necessary to clean up a typical boss (or two!) at fractional health, then compared to the rest of the team the Tank IS ub3rl33t. It's not as if the Tanker is going to immediately lose aggro of a single boss by taking the alpha-strike from the next spawn.

I'd like to add to the @aethereal points that we used to have a much harder limit on the "awesome sauce" of our builds... the Fitness pool used to be something we actually had to take! Not having the pool inherent was a true PITA, but it was an early throttle on imbalance, even pre-ED.

I am not right, but my memories of PVP having an effect on my lead character (a teleporting Invulnerability/Energy Melee Tanker) that I struggled to level from launch day... It actually played like a Tanker in PVP (he couldn't be killed, his single-target Stuns were an actual threat to enemy squishies, even if he could only drop an enemy once in a blue moon), and then at some point PVP Stuns became the thing to cry about in PVP, such that I felt the PVE balance of the Energy Melee set was hurt just to satisfy a particular playstyle of PVPers. I don't think that anyone who complained realized (or cared) that the sort of build I was playing in PVP was incredibly substandard in PVE. Holding off entire teams of redside PvPers with a single character was a thing of beauty. Pretty much the only semi-reliable threat to that character in PVP was Endurance loss.

I think Masterminds are the best at "cleanup", primarily because the MM can dispatch the henchmen to go after runners (if not immobilized to begin with) and can debuff hard targets left behind.

This weekend I fired up the second build to do some testing with Radioactive Cloud, using roughly my original build. The power choice (at level taken) changes are: I wanted to keep Atom Smasher, as I enjoy Blapping with this character. It also has the advantage of being available for lower level content (e.g. Synapse) and is also offering me some valuable Superior Winter Set bonuses. Also, having two Melee PBAoE helps when blinded. It also allowed me to compare the two powers when slotted. The slotting I used was: Level 28: Radioactive Cloud (A) Unbreakable Constraint - Recharge/Accuracy (50+5) (*) Unbreakable Constraint - Chance for Smashing Damage (*) Gladiator's Net -Recharge/Accuracy (50+5) (*) Gladiator's Net - Chance of Damage (Lethal) (*) Ghost Widow's Embrace - Chance of Damage (Psionic) I pulled all the slots out of Ionize, leaving it with just the Gaussian's %BuildUp piece and a 50+5 Recharge IO. The loss of the (6-piece) set bonuses, plus an additional mule for LoTG hurt (for some content) but playing on a Saturday Night Synapse and a +4 Dark Astoria misison team (using only +1 Incarnate shift) have me somewhat convinced I can live without them. The loss of 2.5% (positional) defenses was hard to judge in PUGs, I will need to run more x8 solo content to judge. I will say: Radioactive Cloud was not a good DPS substitute for Atom Smasher on my Blapper; it is a very good extra attack. The Hold portion isn't so important to me as Recharge and Accuracy (IIRC, the %damage need slotted Accuracy). The faster recharge on Atom Smasher brings it ahead, despite the smaller radius. I can easily see how Atom Smasher could fall behind for enemies that don't group or when using a more ranged play-style. It is a difficult power to work into an attack chain, I find myself planning opportunities to use it. For a player/build not committed to Blapping, I won't judge anyone for passing on Atom Smasher.

I spent some amount of time looking for an Enhancement-based way to leverage the new slotting options of Upgrade Robot; my conclusion was that there is no better option than a single Healing IO at 50+5 in the default slot. The "one-cast" feature of the power doesn't make a strong case for Endurance reduction, which is (I think) the second-best choice. I suppose if for some reason a player chose to not take the Maintenance Drone, and make some peculiar choices regarding their slotting of Health they might be some specific Enhancement set bonus that could be pursued via Upgrade Robot... but I think that those would be really odd choices.

The zone I think is designed the best is Cap Au Diable. It has a nice variety of "areas" (urban, industrial, natural) with a good bit of "warrens", but it is easy to travel in/across no matter matter the travel power. I'm sure someone will complain about redside being "too grim", but it's not very different than Kings Row or Brickstown, and it is far more visually exciting than Skyway City or Steel Canyon. I will call out two zones to contrast: Perez Park vs. Croatoa, on the subject of "navigating through the forest (tunnels)". I understand the role Perez Park played at launch, but the tight and twisty pathways through trees (especially for that one exploration badge, the one with the moss) are more cruel than cool. Croatoa has wider "tunnels" , most with visual clues to follow, and the spawns will move through the tunnels as a further clue of the paths to move throughout them. I like Perez Park, but the tunnel feature grates me (even with a map pack). A new zone? I think the Rogue Isles need an equivalent to the (Abandoned) Sewer Network: An subterranean "hazard zone" (or two!) that links Port Oakes and Cap Au Diable. Per the arc, it would be natural to have a "lower level" arc with enemy levels appropriate for those two zones, but I often find myself bored with the variety of "street sweepable" enemies at level 45-50 redside, which is why I ask for a "deeper" version too. The Tunnel of the Trolls is reasonable easy to navigate, so I'm thinking something like that, but with more volcanic graphics and some "sunken city/abandoned base" features scattered about.

Is /jranger a taunt or a flame?

Ignoring "spaghetti code" (which I don't have to look at or maintain), I'm perfectly satisfied with the mechanics of the game at Live shutdown and the QoL improvements Homecoming has given us. I think it is hard to appreciate how the simple constraints of the game have contributed to the wide variety of enjoyments to be had. I think it would be kewl to have s SG base in a specific world area, but such a thing would (a) turn into one more min-max item and (b) add complexity the game doesn't need. I don't think the game needs open world maps. Isn't open-world maps and "better graphics" one of the things that City of Titans has been focused on for... forever? More costumes and improved ragdolls would be nice, but really aren't necessary to enjoying game play IMO. There are a few travel powers that could be kewl (sticking to walls, falling faster than world gravity, swinging on ropes, diving through water, true ballistics) but they wouldn't draw me to a new game. I don't even want to imagine different ways to build/customize characters (statswise)... I can imagine many different approaches, (think D&D v. GURPS v. D&D v. D&D, etc. ad infinitum) but the simple system we have already allows for a huge amount of variety.

Let us know how Radioactive Cloud works for you. This feels over-slotted to me (while Beta Decay feels under-slotted). I think if you are really going to try to eek out %damage from Radioactive Cloud, you probably want the Reactive Defenses Scaling Damage Resistance piece slotted, as well as Preventive Maintenance %Absorb. From the power choices, it looks to me as if you have skipped powers that would be used in Blapping range despite having powers that are very well-used with Blapping like Combat Teleport, Fold Space, I didn't see Atom Smasher or Positronic Fist. (I apologize for questioning play-style and power choices; in my mind there are some choices that have synergy and others that do not) I would not include both Hasten and use the +Recharge piece in Geyser. (TBH, I don't make either of these choices). Using the 6th slot in Geyser for a %damage piece instead will do more to improve spawn defeat times than just having a few seconds of more global recharge. I recommend turning on the power cooldown timers and/or experimenting with unslotters. You can also choose NOT to click Hasten to see how the build plays without it. If you go with this build, I do encourage you to use unslotters on the attacks (like Steam Spray) to see how well they perform slotted with sets (for straight damage plus accuracy plus recharge plus endurance reduction) without trying to get clever with %damage. This is a Blaster, so the ranged damage scale is 1.25 for this character. I like putting %damage in cone attacks, but I have not found it to be valuable for Blaster attacks.

In my experience, the most reliable %proc for henchmen is the Overwhelming Force %Knockdown/KB->KD. I like it in the first tier henchmen because you get 3 ninja knocking down opponents. Another thing to consider about slotting %procs on Henchmen (and pets) is this: you are sacrificing slotting something else that they may need. It could be: More Accuracy, to compensate for level shifts (%damage procs need slotted accuracy too, IIRC this is beyond "%proc chance") More Endurance Reduction, to keep them going on offense a Global Defense/Resist piece An enhancement for one of their team buffs (often it's the T2 henchmen that have the team buffs) For MMs, the henchmen ARE the source of damage, so it is almost always better to slot them for Accuracy and Damage than to try to rely on %damage from procs. The Knockdown is a nice soft control, after that I look at if it is possible for the henchmen to be debuffing enemies (typically AoE %-Res, to speed up defeat times... but usually the MM can do this). One of the Henchman powers (either T1 or T3) gets the Superior %Build Up Enhancement at level 50.

Triage Beacon is a hard power to justify, but not an impossible one. The case in favor of it got harder in i27p5.... for Robotics/Traps, MMV for other combos. Because the Robots are pretty much "all range, all the time" Triage Beacon was best suited for the Robotic primary IMO. The main issue with Triage Beacon is that it is a power that was designed for a different era of the game, an era when combat moved slower and when everyone needed more Healing/Regeneration. I had Triage Beacon in my build for a LONG time. The henchmen could be made to stay in the zone of the Beacon, but the real advantage of Triage Beacon is to use it on teams for which players aren't moving rapidly through spawns while taking damage. With the triviality of defense buffs (including those for Henchmen... even if only from FFG!), and fast-moving AoE murder squads, and the general reluctance of players to play low-level content with difficulties turned up high, pretty much the ONLY player who is likely to see repeated benefit from Triage Beacon is a solo Mastermind... IMO this is mostly because 5 of 6 henchmen are working with level shift penalties. A PUG playing the Positron TFs at +3 will appreciate the benefits of Triage Beacon (because even a PUG of exemplared 50s won't have all their set bonuses and self-preservation powers/effects). I suppose the same case can be made for some Incarnate/Hard Mode content but I'm not going there. This brings me around to another point I want to make about Triage Beacon. In order to really make it work, it needs to: be taken early in the build, to help PUGs and/or Henchmen (possibly without all the upgrades) across as much content as possible be slotted, especially for Recharge and Health, and also for "useful" Enhancement pieces (or it simply won't be doing much) be used in content where the offense isn't moving (all that much)... so large spawn sizes that aren't melting or running away. It is absolutely possible to build Robotics/Traps and pick content to play this way (including S/L AE farms, as well as certain Dark Astoria content). I did this, but ultimately I found that an alternate build (leveraging only the Maintenance Drone) allowed me to play a much more mobile Mastermind. The AI of the Maintenance Drone isn't as reliable as I'd like... but when I feel this way I almost always see it is because one or more of the henchman is out of position (from knockback, or path finding) such that a Triage Beacon would be unlikely to help them anyway. I'll disclose: I've never taken Trip Mine since experimenting with it on Live. Even more so than Triage Beacon I felt it was cornering me into a particular style of play to try to maximize effects I could do better with alternate choices (of powers, of Enhancement choices).