justicebeliever

I think the distinction here, and where NCSoft still really has all the leverage, is that while the "code" is out there, this isn't a single player game...3/4 to 99/100th's of the fun comes from the personal interactions that stem from the MMO-part of the game. All it takes is a few C&D to the main servers, and my gaming experience becomes: LFG Channel: [Justicebeliever] - Citadel needs your help...(Citadel's TF, LF7M, lvl 25+) [Justicebeliever] - Citadel needs your help...(Citadel's TF, LF7M, lvl 25+) HELP Channel [Justicebeliever] - Anyone know why no one can hear my tells? [Justicebeliever] - Oh, that's right, I am the only one playing... The code doesn't do me any good...If this doesn't pan out, then really it's over, and NCSoft is well aware of this dynamic...I'm sure there are pockets of players with the acumen, hardware, and like minded friends who might make a good go at this, keep awareness of their secret server to a few hundred, but for most...not so much... Again, I made do just fine when the game sunset last time, and I'll be just fine if it happens again. Since I have no risk exposure, and no control, I am still rooting for Homecoming...but I don't think they have any "leverage" of any kind...but they bring know-how and an enterprising spirit that NCSoft might value...

I don't believe the naming policy has gone into affect...it had not as of the end of July and one would hope they would communicate as such if it changed...

Of course they aren't the same, and neither is illegal drinking, or driving too fast, or watching a pirated movie...I didn't bring irrelevant crimes into the conversation, you did... Maybe your opinion has evolved in the last 4 hours? Like I said, I'm not interested in there being enforcement of this...I keep trying to tell you, I agree we shouldn't worry about this (trying, is the operative word). As for anyone enforcing anything, there must be hypocrisy...all of us have broken the law at some point, and yet there must be law and order...nature of the beast my friend...If you have to be perfect to tell pass a law and tell others what to do, then we have total anarchy...

Aren't you saying 2 wrong's make something right? really? Pick one side of the argument and stick with it...either stick to talk about copyright and leave the other stuff out, or mush it all together, and be prepared for people to call you on it... Better suggestion...if you don't want people in your business, don't be in a public setting...otherwise, you have norms... And again, I've said that I am on your side of this discussion...but this is why it devolves, because lashing out at people who critiques you instead of having a discussion isn't going to get people to agree with you...

Well, unfortunately, in any shared space there are going to be boundaries...do you want to play completely free to name or costume your character as anything you want...start your own server...conversely, if you don't want to see anyone playing as a copyrighted character, start your own server...If you want to be able to play freely with others, there will be some level of "we are all going to play by some rules or else"...Again, this argument is spurious...There is no enforcement at this time, but if it becomes such, cope or move on...if enforcement doesn't come, cope or move on... Agree with Pax on this one...this is completely silly..."Officer, it's OK that I stabbed my neighbor, after all I saw you run a red light last week"...2 wrongs don't make a right...period...Either copyright is right or wrong, but it's irrelevant what somebody does regarding driving, drinking or watching movies... That's the way of threads...the long ones almost always devolve at some point...people finally get bored of posting the same things over and over and move on, or the mods lock it...This particular topic comes up at least once a month, and always devolves into 2 sides both making themselves looking petty and vindictive...

I don't think this exists in the sense you are describing it...Quasi criminal...treating something as criminal that is in fact a civil violation...like sending someone to jail for contempt of court... Quasi contract means legally treating something as a contract, even though both parties didn't agree to it... AFAIK there is no quasi-legal in the sense of "well it's sort of OK"...there are things where the legality has not been determined yet...this is not one of things...there are things where the legality has not been enforced yet...Homecoming falls here...it's illegal, but no action is being taken...

Since you quoted me, I’ll assume you are addressing me... I don’t understand this point...of course they aren’t the real thing. If it’s a copy and you claim it’s official, that’s Forgery. If you copy somebody else’s stuff and don’t claim it’s the real thing, that Infringement. Either way, unless it falls into fair use, it’s against the law. See this the argument that doesn’t help anybody...you can copy lots of different parts of a character and not infringe. This just makes you sound petty and uninformed...Not saying you are either of those things, but the argument doesn’t work... And this is where I am most confused, because I have already said that I agree with you...I don’t think anyone’s going to take action, so why are we repeating this? just because something is illegal doesn’t mean it’s a big deal or that anyone is going to take action. Like was said, going 1 mile of the speed limit is illegal, and you can’t argue with a judge that it’s not a crime, but the truth is you are extremely unlikely to get pulled over or prosecuted for it.

Doesn’t matter if it’s being sold as the real deal...that has no bearing on copyright...selling something that is fake as real is forgery, not copyright infringement. and the the point of the marvel suit was that they convinced NCSoft it was in their best interests to enforce infringements... there was enough legal standing to do then and it’s likely still the case. i don’t think Marvel or DC are going to bother us either and I have said so on this thread, but ultimately it’s really not up to you or me...

I'm not sure I follow... Legally, copying someone else's work is considered infringement...selling something isn't relevant to the discussion...the profitability isn't relevant...There's over 250 years of precedent that says copying someone else's work is illegal.... Except for fair use, which makes for a just a few exceptions, and quite possibly fan creations may land in this area, but it hasn't been definitively decided at this point... What's clear is that Marvel sued NCSoft/Cryptic shortly after the game went live...the suit was settled (many call it a win for NCSoft), but regardless, immediately after rules went into place about making direct copy of characters or character names in the game... EDIT: Parody is one such exception, but parady requires you to be making fun of the copied subject, and while I have seen a few, they are not the norm when it comes to copycats

That's fair...but similarity doesn't mean infringement or rip-off...Mutant as an origin (in fact all the origins), are pretty moot in CoH, since they have no impact, and mutants in CoH in no way resemble Marvel's at all...In fact, besides Outcasts, who are the mutants in CoH? I'm sure there's a couple I am missing, but they aren't really a "faction" in the game. As for claws/regen that are pretty similar to Wolvie, but aren't infringements: https://comicvine.gamespot.com/ripclaw/4005-26501/ https://comicvine.gamespot.com/pantha/4005-3585/ https://comicvine.gamespot.com/deadlock/4005-41591/ And my point is only that there is lots of room for creativity, homages, pastiches without even venturing into the infringement territory...It's not "all characters should be allowed or no characters should be allowed", which is a ridiculous argument... And I don't have a personal problem with direct copies...it's not my thing personally, and i won't seek you out to team with you, but it doesn't make me sad or angry if that's the route you go...

Neither did you make a compelling argument that ANY character is a rip-off... Making an argument that some characters are rip-offs is unnecessary...again, of course it's true...doesn't require me to answer the question...any more than asking if I like bananas makes a compelling argument... But I did ask you to explain several examples of deep similarities in the post before you, and I didn't see those answers here either... I didn't say you did specifically...you responded to my post, which was critiquing the policy of name calling, by defending the practice...So whether you did it or endorsed it, it's still the same... I'm not trying to get into a personal attack here with anyone...my posts have been pretty clear - I'm not in favor of policing "copycats", but trying to muddy the waters by saying all characters are copycats doesn't help the cause...

Seriously? That's the whole argument? Hahahahaha.... See I took this "any character created" to mean that any character created...Not just one specific instance... One example is not an argument of the whole...

Name calling makes the community more welcoming? I guess it's like you said, if the shoe fits... I agree 100%...there is something wrong with expressing differing opinions in a mean spirited way...

I'd like to hear one...because I don't think a compelling argument can be made... If you are going to suggest that their are similarities between all types of superheroes, then well, duh! That's how we can identify some characters in fiction as superheroes and other characters in fiction as NOT superheroes... Likewise, a reasonable person can say something looks like "Superman" and something else doesn't. You can't draw a realistic cat, give it superpowers and then have that be copyright-able...A realistic looking cat is by itself, not copyright-able...Putting a person in tights, does not make them a copyright-able character. And if you really think that any character is a ripoff, then please explain how any comic creator makes a new entry into the superhero genre without being immediately shutdown...Explain the Justice League and the Squadron Supreme? Dr. Strange/Dr. Fate, Hawkeye/Green Arrow, Namor/Aquaman, Deadpool/Deathstroke, etc...Yes they are very similar to each other, and yet, not infringement...

I think the people who attack other posters on either side of the copyright issue scare people away from this game... Calling people armchair GM's or costume police doesn't nothing to make the community seem nicer or lower the volume of rhetoric... And people who judge others as playing the game "wrong" for copying another character, probably should look internal as to why they feel like others "have to play" their way...

I agree I don't understand the response the poster gave to you, but regardless, I think most people don't use them because they are racing thru the lower levels so quickly the don't see the point in stopping to bother...

@ShardWarrior If you read my last post, I also said it's very unlikely that Marvel/DC are going to take action... Add: Any one individual playing the game does NOT increase the risk that NCSoft is going to take action. Not sure what that has to do with anything...you are right, it's the bigger thrrest, but it's irrelevant to the discussion

Isn’t this true of all of us in the game. If I am on a team that isn’t fun for me, I don’t ask how much fun everyone else is having, I just quit at an appropriate time. I pick the missions I want to do, I play the characters I want to play, I make the build choices I want to make...None of those actions I do for your enjoyment. If your “fun” is going to jeopardize my future fun in the game, I too would take action. I have no idea what this means. A reasonable person can and has made judgement calls in the past that have separated “infringement” from “original” both in game (during Live) and legally. Nor what the mountain or molehill are (I understand the expression, just not why you are using it here). Posting in the forum is going to get the game shutdown??? Playing the game is going to get it shutdown??? I’m really lost on your post... And I think (I hope) all of the poster comments are predicated on their actually being a change in how HC manages “infringement”. Right now they don’t care and we shouldn’t be wrapped up in enforcement of something that currently doesn’t need enforcing. While I would understand from a business perspective why Marvel/DC might want to shut down HC because they both have competing products, the PR backlash in the current age of social media would be pretty brutal, so I personally think they are going to stay out of it...

Where did you get this tidbit from? It’s the first I’ve heard of it. Substantial Similarity is the benchmark I’ve heard and that could be copying very little of another work, but if it’s the core of the expression then it’s infringement. You could copy 90% of something, but if you miss the key details you are good. Just about anything with an red and yellow S on its chest would get you into hot water, and you could copy everything about Batman’s likeness except the bat-symbol and pointed ears and you’d be fine.

There is no email associated to the game account. It’s just a separate username and password that is linked to, but distinct from your forum account username and password. But only the forum account has an email

In general, this idea seems to be moving in the right direction, but it's a pretty major change to only part of the enhancement system. If the change is this big, it needs to address the entire enhancement system, or the next thread after this gets implement is "Why don't SO's attune like DO's?" And people would be right...And if you change SO's to be attuned, then the next thread is "Why are Common IO's worthless?" because they would be then...So this solution just kicks the can a little bit and makes a holistic solution harder and harder. And if we completely overhaul how enhancements work (I'm somewhat of a traditionalist, so my personal preference is no, but regardless), then we need to keep in mind how the enhancements progress throughout the game, so it doesn't become "just get your enhancements at lvl 1 and they are attuned the whole game and there is no reason to ever replace them". I still think having game mechanics here matters A compromise, as a interim solution, but one that's not as drastic could be - Common/Set IO's - No Change Single Origin: Boost values by 20% - Most types would be 46% boosted as opposed to 38% (at max level), and Defense would be 27% boosted instead of 23% (at 3 lvls plus)...Common IO's cap at 42.4% and 25.5% respectively, so SO's have real value again, and while not attuned, they might be worth the Inf sink to be more powerful, especially at those grinding 30-40's lvl's. Drop SO's more frequently at low levels - at the completion of any story arc - there are quite a few all the way up to lvl 22, so it encourages, not discourages, spending more time at the lower levels... Dual Origin Boost values to 60% (not 50%) of SO's - Most types would go from 19.15% to 27.5%, Defense from 11.5% to 16.5%...Common IO's at lvl 15 start at 19.2% and 11.5%, and don't exceed those values until lvl 25 Extend the range that DO's can be slotted from +3 above/+3 below current lvl, to +5 above/+5 below...no quite attuned (they still lose value every level, but make up for it with the higher values). This means a -3 lvl enhancement would be better than a current +3 DO Drop DO's for all team members upon mission complete, for any mission, even at lvl 1 Training Origin Boost values from 25% of SO's to 33% - Most types would go from 9.6% to 15.17%, Defense from 5.75 to 9.1%...Lvl 10 IO's start at 11.7% & 7% respectively, and don't exceed these values until lvl 15...TO's would have real value almost as high as a current DO and exceed common IO's until lvl 15... Extend the range TO's can be slotted from +3/-3 to +7/-7 current lvl...again, not attuned...but slotting them at lvl 8 means you could use any TO from lvl 15 to lvl 1 to enhance your character Drop TO's at +3 of enemy level...fight a lvl 1 hellion gives you a lvl 4 enhancement, which would give you at 14% boost, higher than the current max value of 9.6%. Only a -7 lvl TO would be less than the current max value of 9.6% This doesn't change the value prop of IO's...they still keep their value all the way up, but it weakens them against using the standard enhancements since they would provide bigger boosts...It provides immediate and noticable improvement to people who aren't doing DFB/DiB all the way to lvl 22, but doesn't make any time of enhancement obsolete... Also, remember, at the lower levels, you still have: P2W Enhancements (Dam/End at lvl 20) Beginner Luck - automatic 15% Tohit Buff at lvl 1 that decreases gradually until lvl 20 (~1% at lvl 19) EDIT: This also has the advantage of not changing the current cost structure, which would have to be another major change if we made TO's into DO's or just used SO's all the way up...(can you imagine 6K Inf for a lvl 5 SO Damage...yikes...or 2K inf for a lvl 5 DO?) EDIT 2: There is still also DFB/DiB - In addition to getting the SO's, you also get a boost to accuracy or damage or defense for up to 1 week or lvl 22...So lots and lots of ways to be super in the lower levels... Thoughts?

Personally, @ShardWarriorI agree...Let people have their fun. And we really should be, until such time as the rules change... As for what's the "line"...It's pretty easy, as in many legal cases, what would a reasonable person think is crossing the line...In other words, it's a judgment call...They get made all the time with no precise definitions in many cases... Given it's not our game, but rather NCSoft/Homecoming's, you'll get to live by their rules...Don't like it, then petition for a change...Still don't get your way? Learn to live with it or choose to live a very angry person (which might put you in trouble with Marvel, since that might be a Hulk infringement) 😉

The first 2 macros need quotes...without quotes, after the first $$, if there are spaces, it stops reading the macro...

This was fantastic, you've tied together all the tips and tricks i’ve used i to this. Great work as always!

You can buy Candy Canes from Winter Packs and earn the badges...Probably some have been sold on the Auction house as well