Wavicle

Doesn't change the fact that adding melee sets to Defenders would be a huge problem. For one thing, they would likely duplicate abilities already in their Epic sets, so Those powers would have to be replaced within the new sets.

That changes how all the melee attacks already available to that AT work. You would then have to individually changed all of those powers.

It is in fact wrong to say that power proliferation is a simpler way to do this. It is actually a More complicated way to do it. Making a new AT is the simple way to do it.

It is in fact not that simple.

Corruptors have BAD melee damage modifiers. If you gave them a melee set it would suck. This is how the game works. An AT includes more than just HP and an inherent.

They are a ranged dps/support hybrid. That is the design. That's like asking "besides flavor text, why are Dominators inherently "CC"? "Why are Stalkers inherently melee?" Because that's the game.

Scourge is unique but has nothing to do with buffs. The comment I was responding to was about unique Buff mechanics. I was very careful to give the design limitations so it would not be overpowered. What specifically can you point to as a problem? I like the idea of the AT getting Placate. The POINT of the design is to have a Buff Primary class that plays more defensively than the Defender. Support that is not as squishy. To justify that it has to be fairly low damage and low range. Placate fits with that design better than any sort of Taunt. As an ability in the Attack set it makes sense that it has Something to do with interacting with mobs. I'm open to another idea. Any suggestions?

I'm trying to work within the system that currently exists. Profilerating melee attacks to corruptors is not justified within the existing system. Corruptors are a ranged dps AT, by design. The design of the game suggests that to have buff with melee a new AT would have to be created. I agree that adding a new AT should be rare. There are only a couple spots left. One is buff with melee. Another is Pets on a DPS class with perhaps a small amount of armor, but Not buffs. That's about it. Everything else is already filled.

I'm asking for more. because That one was not fun does not therefore imply that the basic premise of buff/melee is not fun. WHY was that one not fun?

You're going to have to back that up. There is, as far as I can see, no reason to think the base premise of buff/melee is flawed. Justify your statement, perhaps?

This has nothing to do with that. Only the name.

Positron couldn't make it fun, maybe. But he doesn't work here anymore!

Well, I'm not really convinced that they need anything "unique" in that sense, Corruptors don't really have anything like that. But I'll play along. First, this is not meant to be a hybrid dps/support class. It is meant to be a pure support class, like Defenders. So perhaps, first, the buffs need to be a little stronger, close to Defender strength. Now how about something like this: What if their Placate gave a 10 second buff to Heals, Defense Buffs, Damage Resistance Buffs, ToHit Debuffs, Defense DeBuffs, etc.?

They aren’t designed to fill a tank role. They are designed to fill a support role. They don’t typically get pets in the primary that’s just dark miasma. Which is just the example I used.

So are people saying they think this would be either overpowered or underpowered? I would think the numbers could be tweaked to make that not the case.

What you've just described is the Arachnos classes. The whole point of this design is to use the exisiting Buff sets.

My design here is based on a suggestion made by GM Jimmy in a conversation on Excelsior. I had no idea that there had been a previously considered archetype with the same name. We can change the name.

Proposal for a new archetype: The Protector, melee support specialist. The Protector has a buff/debuff primary and melee damage secondary. They take a pure support role alongside defenders and controllers, they lack the range but make up for it with survivability. Their buff/debuff and CC values are similar to those of a corruptor (perhaps very slightly better), but they have hit points closer to a stalker. The range of most of their buff/debuff abilities is no more than that of sentinel's blast abilities. Their melee attacks do somewhat less than tanker damage, with base damage slightly higher than a brute but a cap lower than a tanker. Their self defense caps are around those of a stalker. Like most melee attackers they get Build Up or some other damage boost in their attack set. They do not get Confront, but instead get Power Placate, which does not allow you to get critical strikes but gives a 10 second Power Boost effect when used. The Protector has an inherent power that helps them survive in the melee environment, Stalwart, a passive power that gives a small amount of protection from sleep, stun, and hold and gives a moderate absorb shield that gradually refills when depleted. It also grants a buff to the range of many of their buff/debuff abilities that increases as team health decreases. The range buff does not activate when solo. Their Ancillary and Patron pools look similar to those of defenders, but with short range attacks instead of melee, and of course without access to Power Boost or Power Build Up or other powers now available in their secondary sets. None of their epic pools would include sniper attacks, but their Patron pools would include pets at the highest tier. A sample Protector powerset combination: Primary Powerset: Dark Miasma 1 Twilight Grasp 1 Tar Patch 2 Darkest Night 6 Howling Twilight 8 Shadow Fall 12 Fearsome Stare 18 Petrifying Gaze 26 Black Hole 32 Dark Servant Secondary Powerset: Psionic Melee 1 Mental Strike 2 Psi Blade 4 Telekinetic Blow 10 Power Placate 16 Psi Blade Sweep 20 Concentration 28 Boggle 35 Greater Psi Blade 38 Mass Levitate Ancillary Pool: Electricity Mastery 35 Electric Fence 35 Ball Lightning 41 Charged Armor 41 Shocking Bolt 44 Power Sink With their higher hit points and defensive inherent ability the Protector serves as a lightly armored support specialist, somewhat tougher than a defender despite slightly less powerful buffs. Their low base damage and damage cap gives them damage close to that of defenders, but their need to be in melee to do that damage puts them at greater risk despite their resilience. The Protector fills one of the last holes in the archetype system, giving the player near total flexibility in choosing powerset combinations for their character. EDITS: Changed Placate to Power Placate (Placate+10 second Power Boost) and changed name from Guardian to Protector.

I just had an idea though. What if Sentinel primaries got Build Up (with +Range) instead of Aim?

Agreed. But generally speaking, although stalkers and blasters are more bursty, stalkers, scrappers, and blasters are all roughly equal (roughly) in terms of what they bring to a team. If you need a damage dealer any one of them will do. The same must be able to be said of sentinels. Since they lack Build Up and melee attacks, their ranged attacks need to at least do Almost as much as a blasters ranged attacks. The details on the snipe replacements and the nukes can be messed with to keep the flavor right.

well, it may be somewhat rhetorical. But honestly, I DO think it is as simple as just upping the damage and I'm not sure why he thinks otherwise. Are they near the bottom of popularity? Where's the list? (not rhetorical, where's the list?)

There are four "pure" dps classes: Scrappers, Stalkers, Blasters, and Sentinels. They all do slightly different levels of dps, but Scrapper, Stalker, and Blaster seem to generally be within a fairly small distance of one another. Sentinel is the outlier. It can remain the least damaging of the four, but the difference just needs to be less.

Again with the excessively complicated solutions to an incredibly simple problem. Sentinels defenses are totally fine. The Debuffs they bring are totally fine. They just need to do more damage. It is so simple. Why are we even discussing this?

I’m not really sure exactly what point you’re making now. I’m sure plenty of people are doing all of that on sentinels.

Just to be absolutely clear, the REASON you and your team are not getting hurt, mezzed, or end drained is because you all have stacking armors, buffs, etc. If it's binary as a team that means you're doing it right, but that doesn't mean each team member individually must be able to do +4/x8. You do it together.