Auroxis

Fire/Rad Tankers can farm as well as Rad/Fire Brutes according to tests made by @macskull

Since you're buffing a weak powerset, you can revise a power's purpose without removing the functionality it already has. See the blaster changes for example. Darkness Manipulation had a single target fear power that almost no one used. But instead replacing it and pissing off the few people who used it for its fear function, they added new functionality to the power in the form of a self buff. That saves your developers, your community, and your CM team a whole lot of time and grief and lets you move on to other more pressing developments.

A good example of how to treat under-performing powers is the Blaster secondary buffs. All of the changed powers kept their existing functionality and merely got extra features. And if a power is over-performing, you can tweak its numbers or the numbers of other powers in the same powerset. Features and interactions should remain untouched, with the following caveats: 1. A new unintentional interaction comes to light (meaning the playerbase hasn't adopted it as a feature yet). See: Fade+Damage buffs and other bugs 2. Extreme design space limitations, meaning you have a lot of changes pending but a specific feature is game-breaking. However since this is a 15 year old game, your changes IMO would have to be very worth it in order to break the cottage rule to allow them in. This is where the community can help you decide. SCORE devs have mostly kept true to the Cottage rule (Bruising being one of the few exceptions), and I'd like them to stick to it.

It was seen as a "Bruising alternative" so devs had to nerf it.

With Defenders you can just skip attacks, especially on Sonic which can skip about 4 powers and still be a debuff machine.

There are places where Clarion's protection magnitude is too low (ITF ending, BAF doorways), and in general a PBAoE power available once every two minutes isn't a reliable way to protect your whole team from CC's. Then there's Clarion Radial which I'd rather use to beef up my Fortitude/Heals/Veng/Hover speed than trying to catch all my teammates with it, especially considering its 3/4 uptime. CM is a useful power when exemping down as well.

Well yes @Darkir, but Clarion for corrs is +7.5% so builds can adjust with Barrier. For Defenders it would hurt more, and like I said I don't think it's the way to go.

The PB+Farsight issue is a Defender thing. Corruptors are just as inclined to go Dark Mastery instead of Soul for the better Soul Drain, and softcapping with IO's and Clarion/Barrier instead. So you have extremely durable Defenders? Sure, but they can't fully utilize their durability since their damage is low. Granted there are some proc monster outliers, but then you're not going sonic for the debuffs which makes your offensive contribution in AV fights pretty mediocre (when compared to some other support sets). I do think Time is the strongest overall on Defender, but I've yet to be convinced it needs a nerf since it has its weakness as I've stated above. Keep in mind my two favorite characters are a Fire/Time/Dark corr and an Emp/Sonic/Soul def which both use Clarion/PB for defense buffs, so while I may be biased this comes from experience of using the interaction a lot. If I were to change anything, it'd be the Fade bug and buffing underperforming sets like FF/TA/Traps/Sonic/Poison. And if you really wanna nerf Time, consider making its weakness (offense in av fights) more apparent instead of nerfing the highlight of the set many people enjoy.

There are a few things often overlooked with the PB+Farsight issue: Nerfing Clarion/PB to address Time also nerfs FF and Empathy which aren't overperorming. Clarion Radial has downsides, being an inconsistent CC protection power that takes up a valuable incarnate slot. It also limits your Farsight usage to once per two minutes which can often leave some teammates unbuffed if they're out of range, and yourself unbuffed for a couple seconds due to the game's cast time+recharge interaction. Power Boost via Soul Mastery means you aren't picking up the superior Soul Drain version from Dark Mastery. Time isn't that amazing outside of Chrono Shift and Farsight. Is it the best support powerset for Defenders? Probably, but not by a large margin since it lacks significant anti-AV offensive tools. Much like with Empathy and Force Fields, Defenders need to go Sonic for the debuffs(Beam can also work to a lesser extent) in order to be consistently valuable against AV's.

Even if Bruising wasn't meant to give tankers identity, tankers have the best -res numbers on every single power available to melee classes. There is evidence of offensive support tendencies on tankers even if you assume the bruising addition was purely to make the forced t1 picks decent.

The general case being what? No damage buffs at all and AoE reach and target cap being irrelevant? I already stated why it's hard for me to let go, I wanted offensive support buffs for a long time (I've been vocal about my reasoning long before the patch) and instead i got a support nerf, a useless must-pick t1 power and a tanker that more closely resembles a brute in function.

See, this is why I didn't wanna give feedback again, because there are always people who ignore 90% of my and other people's work and cherry-pick whatever suits their argument. I calculated and gave damage comparisons at multiple damage buff and fury breakpoints which showed Tankers reaching Brute levels of damage when moderate damage buffs are in play(Rage is not the only source), created new builds and ran tests (With TW, Staff, and SS, leadership, weaken resolve, pyre mastery, soul mastery) both with pylons and regular gameplay. That you choose to take all that and boil it down to "you did nothing but show SS needs a nerf" is downright insulting to the hours upon hours of work i invested into build-making, setup, tests and documentation.

The Tanker/Brute comparisons were done comparing identical melee/armor set configurations, the Corruptor/Blaster analogy doesn't quite work to the same effect. Also there's a reason Blasters got a buff.

Yes @Jimmy because having Bruising gives you Defender levels of force multiplication? It's not even Controller/Corruptor/SoA/MM levels, and those classes' -res powers stack from other casters. And if you wanna keep the Tanker different from a ranged support class, how are you ok with the fact that my tests (and others) showed the Tanker getting Brute levels of damage?

Far from it. "My way" would have been completely different from the changes (which I obviously won't get into ITT), I agreed to compromise on several issues including the removal of Bruising, but the only thing I got was a slight increase to leadership and melt armor debuff/buff numbers which were toned down shortly afterwards. There was also the addition of Weaken Resolve which soon after got the multiplier attached to weaken it on tankers.

I'm not here to re-open the topic. I'm here to respond to posts saying the bruising topic was "hashed out" when in fact it was clearly not, as you can see in the post you linked.

This isn't the feedback thread.

I did, and while it was discussed, a lot of my counter-arguments were ignored. And I don't have to stay quiet if I feel like my voice isn't being heard. There was actual discussion, and I wasn't asking for all the changes i dislike to be removed. If I weren't able to compromise I would've given up a long time ago.

I responded to every single one of those replies and didn't get a response in the end. Just because you think the rationale was firm doesn't mean I have to agree with it. Acknowledged how? By giving tankers a stronger buff/debuff multiplier only to nerf it back down because my tests showed the damage buffs were too strong alongside the support buffs? By making T1 powers useless in a patch that's supposed to address tankers? I love this game so obviously this won't stop me from coming back, it's just me expressing my disappointment more than trying to change stuff at this point.

"All hashed out" implies both sides of the argument were satisfied. I'm still left with a useless must-pick T1 power, still lose a feature i've been enjoying for years in favor of a damage buff I didn't want (i wanted support buffs), and I still lose class distinction between the brute and tanker. There was no "hashing out" being taken place, just me addressing my concerns and them being brushed aside over and over again.

Time/* is probably the most flexible defender to build due to how easy it is to reach recharge and defense goals. You can go for different tank/utility/damage routes without really missing out on a lot. My favored route is Sorcery for the Spirit Ward/Rune of Protection utility due to the recharge levels you can reach and Spirit Ward adding range to your support package. Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7 https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer Click this DataLink to open the build! Level 50 Magic Defender Primary Power Set: Time Manipulation Secondary Power Set: Sonic Attack Power Pool: Sorcery Power Pool: Speed Power Pool: Leadership Power Pool: Leaping Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery Hero Profile: Level 1: Temporal Mending -- Prv-Absorb%(A), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(3), Prv-Heal/Rchg(3), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(5), Prv-Heal(5), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(7) Level 1: Shriek -- DfnBst-Acc/Dmg(A), DfnBst-Dmg/Rchg(9), DfnBst-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(9), DfnBst-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(29), DfnBst-Rchg/Heal%(36), DfnBst-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(46) Level 2: Time's Juncture -- HO:Enzym(A), HO:Enzym(7) Level 4: Scream -- SprVglAss-Dmg/Rchg(A), SprVglAss-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11), SprVglAss-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37), GldJvl-Dam%(42), HO:Nucle(46) Level 6: Spirit Ward -- Pnc-Heal(A), Pnc-Heal/EndRedux/Rchg(11), Pnc-Heal/Rchg(17), Pnc-EndRdx/Rchg(17), Pnc-Heal/EndRedux(19) Level 8: Super Speed -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A) Level 10: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A) Level 12: Temporal Selection -- Pnc-Heal(A), Pnc-Heal/EndRedux/Rchg(13), Pnc-Heal/Rchg(13), Pnc-Heal/EndRedux(15), Pnc-EndRdx/Rchg(15) Level 14: Howl -- Rgn-Dmg/EndRdx(A), Rgn-Knock%(31), Rgn-Acc/Rchg(34), Rgn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34), Rgn-Dmg/Rchg(37), Ann-ResDeb%(37) Level 16: Mystic Flight -- WntGif-ResSlow(A) Level 18: Farsight -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(31), ShlWal-Def/Rchg(31), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(45), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(46) Level 20: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx(21), Rct-ResDam%(27) Level 22: Amplify -- GssSynFr--Build%(A) Level 24: Rune of Protection -- UnbGrd-Max HP%(A), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(25), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(25), UnbGrd-EndRdx/Rchg(27), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(29) Level 26: Slowed Response -- AchHee-ResDeb%(A) Level 28: Shockwave -- SprVglAss-Rchg/+Absorb(A), SprVglAss-Acc/Dmg(40), SprVglAss-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(42), OvrFrc-Dam/KB(43), ExpStr-Dam%(43), PstBls-Dam%(43) Level 30: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A) Level 32: Chrono Shift -- Pnc-Heal(A), Pnc-Heal/EndRedux/Rchg(33), Pnc-Heal/Rchg(33), Pnc-EndRdx/Rchg(33), Pnc-Heal/EndRedux(34) Level 35: Dark Embrace -- TtnCtn-ResDam(A), TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx(36), GldArm-3defTpProc(36) Level 38: Dreadful Wail -- Arm-Dam%(A), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(39), Arm-Acc/Rchg(39), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Arm-Dmg/Rchg(40), FuroftheG-ResDeb%(40) Level 41: Power Boost -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(42) Level 44: Screech -- Apc-Dam%(A), Apc-Dmg/EndRdx(45), Apc-Acc/Rchg(45), Apc-Dmg/Rchg(50), Apc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(50), GldJvl-Dam%(50) Level 47: Summon Mistress -- ExpRnf-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(A), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg(48), ExpRnf-Dmg/EndRdx(48) Level 49: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A) Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A) Level 1: Quick Form Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Clr-Stlth(A) Level 1: Sprint -- Run-I(A) Level 1: Vigilance Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A) Level 4: Ninja Run Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A) Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), Mrc-Rcvry+(19), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(21) Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A) Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(23), PrfShf-EndMod/Acc(23) Level 50: Agility Core Paragon Level 0: Task Force Commander Level 0: Portal Jockey Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve Level 0: The Atlas Medallion Level 50: Clarion Radial Epiphany Level 50: Void Radial Final Judgement Level 50: Degenerative Radial Flawless Interface Level 50: Banished Pantheon Core Superior Ally Level 50: Melee Core Embodiment ------------

Sorry but as it feels like my feedback is being ignored, I will no longer participate in these tests and discussions.

The reasoning was that it's only an AV assist tool unless you're at high levels of recharge, which usually only arrive once your build is almost done. I think you can switch its level selection with Screech since that one's mostly used against AV's as well.

Here's one with Cauterize Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7 https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer Click this DataLink to open the build! Level 50 Mutation Defender Primary Power Set: Thermal Radiation Secondary Power Set: Sonic Attack Power Pool: Speed Power Pool: Leadership Power Pool: Fighting Power Pool: Leaping Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery Hero Profile: Level 1: Warmth -- NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(A), NmnCnv-Heal(17), NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(17), NmnCnv-Heal/Rchg(19), NmnCnv-EndRdx/Rchg(19), NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx(37) Level 1: Shriek -- SprVglAss-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), SprVglAss-Dmg/Rchg(3), SprVglAss-Acc/Dmg(3), Thn-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(27), Thn-Acc/Dmg(50), Thn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(50) Level 2: Cauterize -- Prv-Absorb%(A), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(11), Prv-Heal/Rchg(13), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(13), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(15), Prv-Heal(15) Level 4: Thermal Shield -- TtnCtn-ResDam(A), TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx(25), TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(31), TtnCtn-ResDam/Rchg(37) Level 6: Scream -- SprVglAss-Rchg/+Absorb(A), SprVglAss-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(7), SprVglAss-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(7), Thn-Acc/Dmg(9), Thn-Dmg/Rchg(40), Thn-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(46) Level 8: Plasma Shield -- TtnCtn-ResDam(A), TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(11), TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx(33), TtnCtn-ResDam/Rchg(33) Level 10: Power of the Phoenix -- RechRdx-I(A) Level 12: Thaw -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(42) Level 14: Super Speed -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A) Level 16: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(33) Level 18: Forge -- RechRdx-I(A) Level 20: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(21), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(21), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(23), LucoftheG-EndRdx/Rchg(23) Level 22: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A) Level 24: Vengeance -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(25) Level 26: Heat Exhaustion -- Acc-I(A), RechRdx-I(27) Level 28: Howl -- Rgn-Dmg/EndRdx(A), Rgn-Acc/Rchg(29), Rgn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(29), Rgn-Knock%(31), Rgn-Dmg/Rchg(31) Level 30: Boxing -- Empty(A) Level 32: Tough -- TtnCtn-ResDam(A), TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx(34), TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(34), TtnCtn-EndRdx(34) Level 35: Screech -- Apc-Dam%(A), Apc-Dmg(36), Apc-Acc/Rchg(36), Apc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), Apc-Dmg/Rchg(37) Level 38: Dreadful Wail -- Arm-Dam%(A), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(39), Arm-Acc/Rchg(39), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Arm-Dmg/Rchg(40), FuroftheG-ResDeb%(40) Level 41: Scorpion Shield -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(42), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(42), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(46), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg(50) Level 44: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Rct-ResDam%(45), Rct-Def(45), Rct-Def/EndRdx(46) Level 47: Melt Armor -- Acc-I(A), RechRdx-I(48), RechRdx-I(48), AchHee-ResDeb%(48) Level 49: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A) Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A) Level 1: Quick Form Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Clr-RunSpd(A), Clr-EndRdx(45) Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Clr-RunSpd(A), Clr-EndRdx(43) Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Clr-Stlth(A), Clr-RunSpd(43) Level 1: Sprint -- Clr-RunSpd(A), Clr-EndRdx(43) Level 1: Vigilance Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A) Level 4: Ninja Run Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A) Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), Mrc-Rcvry+(9) Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A) Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(5), EndMod-I(5) Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve Level 0: Portal Jockey Level 0: Task Force Commander Level 0: The Atlas Medallion Level 50: Spiritual Core Paragon ------------

So I need to get my head checked, as do the original game's devs for choosing Bruising to address the Tanker's woes. I appreciate your concern for people's health, but please keep such comments to yourself. You can say that about any single target -res power, it being marginal is your opinion. Multiplying team damage is a massive asset , so much that CP nerfed -res multiple times already and believes making Bruising stack (from multiple casters) would make the class OP. You know there are visual red debuff indicators for -res? And the whole 10 second thing is a useful indicator in itself, it's not a random duration and it can fit into an attack chain seamlessly. Tankers have a lot of good AoE options, ranging from powersets to power pools. And this patch is already addressing AoE. Tanker damage is definitely not "utterly laughable" as it is right now, that's more of a player issue than a class issue. That said I'm not gonna use that argument to deny the class damage buffs, but I am gonna talk against damage buffs when they come at the expense of taking away features of the class I enjoy. I did actually suggest the former. Bruising was far from a bad "band-aid fix" though, as it fixed multiple problems while keeping the class unique, and Tankers remain popular to this day. It should be expanded upon, not removed in favor of having two Brute classes.