Auroxis

Because the 90% disadvantage in capped scenarios is used to justify the AoE/Resilience advantages, while the more common buff scenarios can get the Tanker to 100%. Double Rage is an outlier, but it's just one buff scenario out of many.

Well, if they're attacking you. Sometimes they're cc'd/defeated/aggro onto someone else before that happens. Fury also has to be built up. In the AV scenario it takes some time before just your attacks get you to high fury, and in regular gameplay there's downtime before each pack of mobs.

I didn't say "just take Cross Punch", just pointing out the Tanker advantage Brutes don't have. Your point about Cross Punch has more to do with Super Strength as a whole rather than Tankers specifically.

You misunderstood. When both the Tanker and the Brute are at 2x Rage, and Brute is at 50% Fury, they both have the same levels of melee damage. And team buffs work similarly on other powersets, you can replace 2x Rage with Fulcrum Shift in those cases.

Tanker Foot Stomp has a 16 target cap to Brute's 10. That's 60% higher potential AoE damage. Tanker can also get more out of Cross Punch than Brute, since the arc is doubled. And Rage makes up for not having Fury, so much that in 50% fury and 2x Rage the Tanker deals identical levels of raw melee damage.

Bringing Bruising back in some form or another and reducing the melee damage modifier would be the best way to keep Tanker from becoming significantly better than Brute at AoE, since that way you're not reducing the Tanker's effective single target DPS. In fact you're increasing it at the early-game, where Tanker struggles most in comparison to Brute. For the record I'm talking AoE in regular team scenarios, Brutes are still slightly ahead in AE Farms which utilize multiple ranged attacks and easily saturate 100% Fury, while in normal gameplay the Brute hovers around 25-75% Fury.

That's due to the damage scale, before bringing target cap into the equation.

Keep in mind that on SS with 2xRage, a Tanker matches a Brute's raw damage output on 50% Fury while having better AoE and resilience.

Updated damage chart: For fury, it'll be: 0%, 25%, 50%, 75%, 100% For enhancement+damage buffs, it'll be: 0%,100%, 200%, 300%, 400%, 450%, 500%, 600% Calculation will be: (0.95*(1+enh))/(0.75*(1+enh+fury)). Comparison with before (550% and 775%): 0% 25% 50% 75% 100% 0% 1.27 0.84 0.63 0.5 0.42 100% 1.27 1.01 0.84 0.72 0.63 200% 1.27 1.09 0.95 0.84 0.76 300% 1.27 1.13 1.01 0.92 0.84 400% 1.27 1.15 1.06 0.97 0.9 450% 1.27 1.17 1.07 1 0.93 500% 1.16 1.07 1 0.93 0.9 600% 0.99 0.93 0.9 0.9 0.9 And after (500% and 700%): 0% 25% 50% 75% 100% 0% 1.27 0.84 0.63 0.5 0.42 100% 1.27 1.01 0.84 0.72 0.63 200% 1.27 1.09 0.95 0.84 0.76 300% 1.27 1.13 1.01 0.92 0.84 400% 1.27 1.15 1.06 0.97 0.9 450% 1.27 1.06 0.97 0.9 0.9 500% 1.06 0.97 0.9 0.9 0.9 600% 0.9 0.9 0.9 0.9 0.9 Do you guys think the Tanker's advantage in the 300% and 400% areas is problematic considering the AoE and resilience advantage? Would you take a damage modifier reduction from 0.95 to 0.9, if it meant getting the Radius buffs back to +100% or getting Bruising back?

Fortunata now has access to Weaken Resolve which can slot four 90% procs, one of which is Achilles' Heel which Fortunata didn't have access to before. It also has -15% res, a modifier only SoA and Defenders currently have.

I quite like it, though I understand why some players wouldn't and adding an option to hide it might be more trouble than it's worth.

The effect of losing the damage buff is negative, while not gaining the crash is a positive. Which is why I went for "Rage Diminished" since it sounded neutral to me. Arguing for the wording is fairly premature though since I don't know if CP thinks adding the reminder is important enough. From playing around with Rage on Pineapple, do you think the reminder (let's assume they go with a positive one) is a worthwhile addition?

That sounds too positive I think? The point is to remind the player he should refresh Rage (without the need to look for orange circles around red icons during hectic fights).

The current top time I have on Bio/SS is 2:35(hybrid off), that's with Gloom and Weaken Resolve (pre whatever nerf CP has in store). My build is also softcapped to most defenses so damage isn't the whole focus. Regarding Rage, I have no problem with the change. I like that there's a no-crash option to choose if team buffs are sufficient, though I'd like a second visual aid for it. What if to resemble the red "Weakened" text, there was a white "Rage Diminished" text when Rage's duration ends with a single stack?

The Hybrid time on Bio/TW is 1:26

Speaking of Bio/SS, I've been beta testing Weaken Resolve in the chain (KoB>Haymaker>Weaken>CrossPunch>Haymaker), which seems to be working out well as it can hold some nice procs, including a 90% achilles' heel proc SS doesn't have easy access to. Current top time for me (hybrid toggled off) is 2:47 on Bio/SS, not as good as the 1:42 I got on Bio/TW but still great for a SS time while also applying nice -res (see screenshot). Melt Armor and possibly other stuff are getting nerfed on Pineapple soon, so we'll see.

Why does Weaken Resolve not accept Accurate ToHit Debuff sets while it accepts ToHit Debuff sets and Accurate Defense Debuff sets? Makes it lose out on a proc.

So the buff went down from +5.25% to +1.5%, pretty disappointing. It was looking like Melt Armor would cover for Bruising's absence but it seems that won't be the case anymore.

Are you going to bring it down to 13% to mirror the current -res difference of Arctic Breath between Brute and Tanker?

I was under the impression you gave them the Defender modifier for it on purpose, so what wasn't intentional exactly?

+3 is as high as I can go, since 54 mobs are +3 to my character. And no, -13% res (or -20% against GM's) isn't small in my opinion. You can buff Tanker without nerfing an aspect of the class many players like. Besides if it's so insignificant as you imply, surely there's no harm in keeping it right?

Would it surprise you to know that the first thing I wondered about Force of Will was whether or not they kept the -res power on it?

FYI @Sovera, Tactics was taken because on a full team it provides a benefit with the Gaussian proc, and StJ's build up (where gauss would otherwise fit) is pretty bad.

When facing +3's on my Tanker (as high as it gets with alpha), the debuff is reduced from 20% to 13%. And against giant monsters it stays at 20%. "purple patch shrinks anything but the most powerful debuffs in the game down to almost nothing" is also incorrect, you might be thinking of AV debuff resistance which does not affect resistance debuffs. Apparently I'm a contrarian bully now? Anyway, to keep the conversation moving forward, I thought I'll give damage comparisons at 5 differing levels of fury and 8 levels of enhancement+damage buffs. For fury, it'll be: 0%, 25%, 50%, 75%, 100% For enhancement+damage buffs, it'll be: 0%,100%, 200%, 300%, 400%, 450%, 500%, 600% Calculation will be: (0.95*(1+enh))/(0.75*(1+enh+fury)). We will be assuming a 550% Tanker cap and 775% Brute cap. 0% 25% 50% 75% 100% 0% 1.27 0.84 0.63 0.5 0.42 100% 1.27 1.01 0.84 0.72 0.63 200% 1.27 1.09 0.95 0.84 0.76 300% 1.27 1.13 1.01 0.92 0.84 400% 1.27 1.15 1.06 0.97 0.9 450% 1.27 1.17 1.07 1 0.93 500% 1.16 1.07 1 0.93 0.9 600% 0.99 0.93 0.9 0.9 0.9 As you can see, there are quite a few cases where the tanker matches or exceeds the brute's damage while retaining all other advantages. This is why I'm in favor of lowering the cap to 500% (aka +400%) in order to reduce the number of scenarios where this occurs.

That the whole "Same level av's get treated as +5's" is incorrect. Some TF's will spawn them at +4 despite your settings though. And the alpha slot is part of the game whether you like it or not.