Sovera

MUH FIRE ARMOR!! A-ahem, I mean... Not complaining. I'm just what the heck at, y'know, having pitted Fire Armor and Burn and all offense (Fiery Embrace and inspirations) against uber defensive Stone Armor, and Stone Armor won 😄 Okay, okay, the strength of Tanker builds is being able to reach end game and then be able to make tight builds with plenty of procs and such. So it is not fair to compare two leveling builds slotted similarly instead of two end-game builds tweaked to their AT's strength.

You're making a big thing, plus rolling with assumptions, on a topic I'm not particularly sanguine about. Nothing that you have said so far has struck me as original or something I have not encountered or even personally played instead of watching others do it. C'mon, am I Diantane or something? Do I go around making false claims or proclaiming my opinion as gospel? I say it as I see it. It ranks as pet peeves, not something that makes me come to the forums to rant on. My post history is available, I don't think I have ranted about mass immobilizes or even knockbacks. I do grumble when someone has made a topic about it and I pitch in. Even this thread was not one I started, yet others feel like I do, obviously. The bottom line is still the same: enemies don't wander away from the tank (if the tank goes first). A Blaster can nuke with full impunity because once agroed the mobs are sticking with the tank. Mass CCs are useful for when things get dicey: tank dies, two spawns are agroed, ambush comes from behind. Mass CC is not useful when things are steamrolled. Now please, Ninja, I bear you no ill will since we can have an argument without it, but do stop trying to make it look like I'm a lunatic who has just first set foot on the game and has not touched a Controller.

I'm seriously disgusted at this. Damn thing soloed Posi 1 and 2 at 0x8, with Posi 2 finishing in 45 minutes. That was faster than my Fire Armor/Stone Melee who has Burn and did it in 46 minutes and that I had made a thread giving an impressed nod. Then I tried Yin since it left that super low level zone where Fury is OP and at +1x8 it was still soloed in 43 minutes. Again, faster than the Fire/Stone who now had access to Tremor on top of Burn. But as further insult I was blinking at the speed I was going through mobs and decided that despite not yet having Earth's Embrace/Rooted slotted to stop using inspirations to not skew things, so unlike the Tanker I was not stuffed in purples and reds and whatever else dropped. The only moment I used inspirations was to tackle Yin who debuffed me faster than my downleveled DDR could stop so a medium purple to tackle her and the ambush at the same time. Even so 43 minutes. And super safe (no inspirations used after all). The upside of a Tanker having more HP gets shut down by Earth's Embrace pushing HP to 3k something once at max level. Not capped but a fat bonus that needs to be ablated. For all of the spreadsheet and talks the chunks taken out of the AV (without benefit of reds, Fiery Embrace, Burn, or Brimstone) makes my Tanker green with envy, and Brutes who are supposed to be squishier simply are not with Stone Armor being strong as it is. Despite having slotted all but one of the recovery uniques as well as having slotted both IOs in Stamina and Crystal Armor the endurance keeps on going down (currently 3.26 EPS) and there is still Brimstone, Tough, Weave, and Focused Accuracy to come so it's a tad worrying for someone used to Consume. For now I use Recovery Serums once my blue bar dips under 20% and it's always available by the time it has returned to 20%. Considering how cheap Recovery Serums are and how it's just the leveling phase I'll carry on doing it and then see how the build behaves at max level with accolades and Musculature 33%. I'll drop the build here though I don't know how correct it is because of Mids being currently borked. I know the HP bonus, recovery, and stats in many attacks are simply not working or doing double than what they ought, but the IO bonuses seem to be working so I pushed for the usual goals and will revisit when Mids has been fixed. Should be fixed, but may need a manual download. I got mine from their Discord. Different build replacing Devastating Blow for Contaminated Strike. No, no, contain your sneering, there is MATH! If there's interest I'll whip a leveling build. Leveling build:

The logic is sound but as @InvaderStych it is not how it works. There are not two rolls for each attack, just one against the one that is higher. If it's melee then it rolls against melee, but if it's Smash then it rolls against Smash. There is value in adding more of what you have highest in terms of buffering defense debuffing. Stone has a decent defense debuffing resistance but not enough to be considered immune to it. Also a small part of the content is not softcapped with just 45%.

I'd aim for more resists as long as above softcap. This is a good enough approach for 98% of the game. When the slowly expanding difficulty options catch up to the rest of the game it will be common to bring buffers and then the middle-of-the-road approach will benefit more than over-the-cap-so-buffs-do-nothing. IMO.

Not add them, but swap them for something. Preventive Medicine in Rooted would give 2.5% S/L. Can be done in Earth's Embrace as well. Or just try to give the full Preventive Medicine in Rooted and five Panaceia in Earth's Embrace.

The new Mids is out though you might need to download it from the site instead of the auto updated. It seems currently bugged in a few ways though so perhaps hold off. I confess I've been tempted by this combo.... but no agro aura... I've played Stalkers before and it was the deal breaker so I know it will be for me. But the combo sounds good. Looking at the build now you do sacrifice a bit more than I am comfy with. I'd really throw all those 'chance for heal' procs into Rooted or Earth's Embrace. You have two 1.5% S/L resists past the limit of 5 so change for something else, perhaps LotG for regen instead. I'd throw a FF proc into Shockwave to help Hasten too. You seem a bit worried about F/C defenses and resists. Before Aeon I would say it's not really something to worry about but nowadays I don't know if fire or cold are important for that specific TF. Otherwise I'd also throw a FF proc into Focus.

Not sure if super durable is really a necessity. The TF is not one to be face tanked from what I've read (didn't do it yet). Just like Psi melee... Well, it's not great. But if it' the mob's weakness then perhaps that's what's needed. Are they impervious to CC like ITF mobs? Because Ice Patch might be a good help. Probably EM to focus fire on the important mobs that need to be put down ASAP.

Yes, MMs sort of need a way to heal their pets. Cold Domination is great and all, but even if you had softcapped defense for your pets (which can be achieved with Cold but is going to require more than level 20) hits will still happen and heals will still be needed. Something perhaps easier since you don't mess with IOs would be changing to Thermal. Your shields will help your pets live longer and your heals can keep them up. It still has anti-AV tools like Cold has.

Proof's in the pudding, git in there and tell us how it went!

My opinion: Controllers as a CC AT have become obsolete with the increase in power. Namely survival. The -current- role of a Controller is a buff/debuff role, not particularly a CC role. Yes, I know, we have the paradigm that no AT is needed and if we AFK for ten minutes and return the team will have continued without having noticed. This is true. But what happens when the AT is focused towards doing less damage and in exchange making the team more able to survive? That's a double whammy. This is not strictly only for Controllers. For years Tankers were obsolete since a Brute could take over while Tankers were needed for 2% of the content. Only a masochist would play a Tanker since they were so slow at killing and for what? Extra mitigation? I have a whole thread about how a 'squishy' Fire Armor Tanker can do most things in game and that more survival is not needed. This 'more survival is not needed' unfortunately applies to Controllers. But yes, I am in the Controller forums and people who are here love their AT. It's understandable that me saying this comes as pissing in someone's cereals. I don't say it to be mean, or to pontificate, I make teams near everyday and don't post saying I refuse Controllers nor do I boot them out of the group. This whole argument came up simply due to the use of mass immobilizes. One good thing is the shift in difficulty. No longer do we go in to face tank things like eight solo players. Controllers finally get their comeuppance as they are begged to come and help. All that is now needed is the proliferation of that difficulty because that's what was lacking these past years. An AT tailored to help the team survive requires a scenario where the team is at risk.

Gott damn, I would say it's some triple A customization level but I've been so hilariously disappointed with character customization in other games.

You are missing the context. And as an outsider looking without context it looks like an horrid community ganging up on some poor casual who dared to express their anti meta views. The context is that Dian has the habit of popping into the forums and then make a thread explaining how to play the game. As an example In one of their most recent threads they explained how people who play support ATs (tanks included) and take their attacks (and use them) are playing the game wrong. Followed by a proud example on how his character is level X and only has the first attack because the game forces them to. So you are catching the comets tail. If you can be bothered you can check their posting history and see the initial posts with these nuggets and the community trying to steer them off the WoW mentality. But the threads keep coming and pearls of anti-wisdom keep on being dropped and, well, at some point some people stopped assuming ignorance.

I'm not a hardcore DB fan so I miss on the nuances, but for the shorter attack loop to be touted as the best it has to be some nuance being skipped. Probably the double BF influence. But now with only 5% chance of a combo missing the gap between the two must have shrunk some.

If you can? Sure, you can, but ugh, why would you do that to yourself? With (a) rare exceptions pool powers are purposefully made weak as to be unappealing. As a result job accomplished: power pool attacks are not taken. It can work as long as you dont decide to fight an AV because that is the one moment you would be unable to whittle enemy HP since they would handily regenerate. It is probably better to pick one attack you like and work it into your regular attack chain.

The GM has a point though. I do not agree with some things like being called a cheater, answering with idiot, and my post gets deleted and I get an infraction. In the meanwhile the post calling me a cheater is still there. Obviously double standards are a thing. But in this case they are right. Why the diatribe? Guy does not listen, guy does not care, then why make the very public sneering? It is not like he is listening, correct? It is playing to the audience. Just put him on ignore.

Re-did the Fire/Stone to test the revamped Stone Melee. Unfortunately Fault did not pass muster. Its roleplay still needs to be on the ground for it to be used which makes trying to use with Hover an impossibility. Tremor has this but to a lesser effect. We can use it with Hover, but need to be near the ground. Which is acceptable. A pity they could not share code. In any case I gave it a test and even with a Brute (who does more damage) and on the low levels (where Fury is astoundingly good), and with a full Fury bar, and with Build-up + Gaussian... it still left minions at half HP. Color me unimpressed in the attempt at giving Stone Melee a mid level AoE to tidy the other ATs until 32. I understand that there is a hefty depletion of a power's budget due to the strong CC Fault has, which leads to silliness by alternating Fault and Tremor, but, the set remains still in need of a mid level AoE. Not for us though. All hail Tankers the master AT! So, the shaved time in Tremor was the linchpin that the set needed to get moved a tier or three. Right now it's gooooooooooood. A very definite stamp of approval from Sovera! And unlike other lesser (hehe) combos/ATs we can rely on Burn straight away at Posi 1 which fixes the AoE problem until Tremor is available After PLing myself to 23 I start on Posi 1 at +0x6 and melted my way through, one death when CoT bullshit managed to get at verrrrrrrrry end, the two groups just before the shadow simulacrum. Darn shame. At seeing how easy it had been I bumped to +0x8 for Posi 2. Lets keep in mind it's packed with CoT doing CoT BS... and even so it got done, no deaths, 47 minutes. The secret ingredient? A FF proc in both mallets. Burn rushing back, Build-up rushing back. Build-up at those levels with a Gaussian is a killer and CoT BS is laughed at. I then skipped Synapse and went to Yin to test Tremor. And it was beautiful. It got done in 46 minutes (yes, I noticed the similar times for both TFs), no deaths, +1x8. To put in perspective the Fire/Dual Blades I was testing yesterday got Yin done in 1:06h so it's a 20 minute improvement. The ST is still definitely Tanker damage though. It relies on Burn to pump it and it relies on constantly using Build-up and Fiery Embrace. Do not try to save BU + FE, the FF procs will bring them back and no one wants to whittle enemies. EM it ain't, but then nothing but EM is EM, but it's good enough and the constant FF procs make the game very smooth. The KD/KU can't be overlooked. It was common to kill Freak Tanks before they could heal. Ultimately I just found it -fun-, which is important, but I'm pretty damage oriented. One good thing about Tanker is being forced to take Stone Fists. It would feel bad to take it when it has no use outside of exemplaring but since we're forced... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ That makes for an easy ST rotation even as low as Posi 1. Not a -great- rotation, and it does have gaps at such low levels, but it allows for Heavy Mallet, Stone Fist, Stone Mallet, Stone Fists. This will be bread and butter all the way until 38 when we can move to Seismic Smash, Stone Mallet, Heavy Mallet, Stone Mallet. The recharge is not good enough to make this gapless (outside of a FF proc) but it's close enough for my purposes. Anyone else who wishes can use Stone Fist in that gap though I'd advise to pick a couple slots from somewhere and boost Stone Fist if it's going to be used as the current slotting is just for exemplaring/leveling. I have tried this build in the past and it was endurance heavy, but the new build eschews Maneuvers for the nearly free Combat Jumping while also tweaking the slotting to no longer need Tough toggled on to reach 90%. Assault was also dropped to up Slow resistance and free a slot. This leaves the build at 1.86 consumption with 3.82 EPS. As usual it relies on two ATO stacks and Barrier to reach 45% to S/L and 90% to SL/E/N.

No worries. Good to hear you're having fun o/

Yep. Nothing in the build does not go under level 50. The original build as posted works very very well all the way down to level 1, but really takes off at level 13 (exemplared) which is when Burn comes active. When you do as low as Positron part one you have access to Frost, Burn, Build-Up and Ice Patch. You'll be good to play with the family, fam.

You'll have to explain what you mean by 'superior enhancements don't examplar at all'.

Nah, not offended. I started amused by being called out on the 0.3 gap and then went on rambling like an old man. Strikerfox is correct that the gaps add up. But in my opening post I did say I picked DB because I need a set with few powers in order to fit all of Stone Armor. An extra power and somehow finding five extra slots because of a 0.3 gap runs contrary. The extra power, sure, just switching from Flying to Leaping would free a power, but the five slots might be a bit harder, and at that point the build might as well be redone from scratch because no point in getting so much recharge when the BF - AV combo is so forgiving in terms of recharge needed plus one of the powers now taking a FF proc anyway. In practical terms and outside of pylons which are one of the very few times we hit something for minutes, I don't see the need for a perfect gapless attack chain. In regular play which is 95% of the game we keep moving when a target dies, even repositioning so the cone hits more enemies.

There is not much point in insisting. By his own admission in another thread he has no levels 50, he has no cash to invest in slotting, and he has no interest in builds. What Dian speaks of is his opinion as someone playing ultra casually on some randomly slotted build with SOs mingled with DOs. And all of it would be fine and understandable were it not for his occasional pontificating on the forums as he drops pearls of wisdom... ...without owning a level 50. ...without using the IO system. ...with no mastery of an AT or power set since he's constantly making new alts.

In practice there -is- no spillage of mobs seeking squisher team mates, unless two spawns are agroed at once, or an ambush happens that exceeds the Tankers agro limit. At those moments a judicious use of CC will help. As I said above it would be dumbness to berate a Controller from using their tools to control such occasions.

Neither are worth slotting for defense, but they are worth picking as one slot wonders. If you can only pick one then CJ is better for having nearly no cost. I've come to exchange Maneuvers for CJ in my last builds to diminish the EPS costs though it means I'm not buffing the team. As rule both only have a LotG, but one will have the Shield Wall's 5% resist unique.

Not sure what you're smoking but it must be hitting hard. Get off your high horse for two seconds and re-read what the GM wrote. In what Twitterverse do you live in when a request to stay civil is seen as a threat?