BGSacho

Yes, this is exactly what needs to happen. You need to heal the pet on the exact tick it dies, then use the summon power again and you'll gain an extra pet. Unfortunately, IIRC it doesn't last through zoning.

Bots are not really the best MM primary. I don't think they're a great choice for a new player, because you will struggle to really output any damage until you get the assault bot kitted out(i.e. 32). Even then the bots rely almost entirely on the assault bot's damage, and struggle with single target DPS. Demons and Thugs are both more versatile and more powerful overall - bots require very specific circumstances to shine. That being said, the four main strengths of Traps are: Def(FFG), Mez Protection(FFG, but missing critical KB protection), -Regen(Poison Trap), Stackable debuffs(Acid Mortar). Time has +def(Farsight), no mez protection, little -regen, and you can't stack Slowed Response(the alternative to Acid Mortar). However, bots already provide decent -regen. Time also has the benefit of +recharge(not extremely valuable for MM), and an AoE heal(nice addition but not critical for a the high-def, mostly ranged bots). Looking at it from a powergaming perspective, both sets are relatively equal. This leaves the decision to the supporting powers(e.g. Caltrops, Seeker Drones, Mines vs Distortion Field, Time's Juncture) and playstyle - much you want to micromanage all the Traps pets vs the fire-and-forget effects in Time. I personally prefer /Time because it is very hands-off, leaving more time for personal attacks to supplement the poor ST dps of bots. It also lends itself nicely to "Tankerminding"(where you try to hold aggro on the highest damage targets) thanks to the combination of Bodyguard spreading out damage and Time's AoE heal. Bots/Time/Mu gives you with a very tanky MM(75% SL, high E, softcap Def) and a slow, grind-out playstyle.

The best thing about Time isn't being able to softcap pets like Thugs(like you said, lots of sets can do that), it's having a mostly-passive set with good defenses which you can springboard into using 2-3 personal attacks. For example, Thugs/Time(-Res AoE, 2 sources of Achilles Heel) + Cross Punch(Fury of the Gladiator) + Mu Root(Annihilation) is a decent chunk of -Res you can apply , most of it in AoE. You also have high AoE dps(enforcers) and high ST dps(Cross Punch + Mu Hold from MM, Bruiser ST DPS). Storm's damage may be higher, but /Time isn't necessarily much further behind. The main thing /Time is really missing is -regen, which Storm also lacks.

Demons/Dark and X/Nature have great synergy, but it comes late. The three skills to focus on are Wild Growth(+resists), Bastion(absorb) and Overgrowth(+damage, end redux). Once the Beasts/Nature can get these going with reasonable recharge, your pets will both shoot up in damage and survivability, while also solving all your endurance problems. Dark should be carrying you through the early levels - Twilight Grasp is a great heal, and Tar Patch should keep mobs reasonably clumped until you kill them. With some patience you should end up with a great combo. The only issue with the combo I can see is that beasts + demons may crowd out each other vs small targets in melee, but it's something you can probably live with. It would also encourage you to blob up, which helps keep everything within your auras and within Twilight Grasp heal range. I think you should stick with your current combo and see it through.

There's another proc - Shield Breaker - which is definitely worth slotting in GKs. I'd replace the SA Dmg/End with it. You can look at Soul Extraction in two ways - either as something you really don't use, then you can just dump all the auras in it and call it a day. Or, you can look at it as a significant source of damage, if you can micromanage to get your Lich(or at least a GK) killed when you need to recast it. Then I would slot it x4 Cmd of the Mastermind(the recharge pieces) + Cloud Senses + 1 extra aura. You can fit the rest of the auras in the Lich and Zombies. A properly slotted Soul Extraction out of a Lich does as much dps as the Lich itself(or about as much as 2/3 of a GK). I don't think the Vigor Alpha is really worth it in the end. There are many ways to manage your endurance to reach a certain equilibrium, but you can never have too much damage. I think Intuition would be a better chocie - it makes ED softcapping damage on the pets easier, and helps with the -hit debuffs. Your build goes through a lot of trouble to get some +Recharge bonuses, but is lacking Hasten. Drop either Fly or Combat Jumping(e.g. replace Combat Jumping with Hover?). Drop Night Fall for Hasten. Your Soul Storm slotting is good but can be improved. Unlike the short recharge powers, slotting recharge in Soul Storm is useful and significantly improves the DPS you can get out of it. I'd slot Unbreakable Acc/Recharge instead of the Acc/Dmg HO(higher dps, plus bonus 0.07 end/s). You can also slot Acc/Hold/Recharge if you like the extra CC. I'm not a huge fan ot taking both Gloom and Life Drain. They share the main proc(Apocalypse) and they can't really max out on procs anyway. Take Life Drain if you struggle with end(theft of essence makes it essentially free), Gloom otherwise. I wouldn't slot local recharge in those powers, as it reduces the proc chance. You can replace Night Fall(meh) with Soul Tentacles(++). Good proc options and even a -res. Your Heat Armor is definitely underslotted - you want to max out its recharge, it's your main opening move. I couldn't figure out a good slotting for it though, maybe you can get some inspiration from a Demons/Thermal build. I don't like 6-slotting tactics - you're not hitting any appreciable def breakpoints, the proc is meh on the MM, and the rest of the bonuses are meh as well. Here's a build utilizing some of my suggestions, although it's a work in progress. The goals are to reach ~32.5% S/L def(30% atm), which in casual fights should bring you close to def softcap with all your -hit debuffs, and you can pop a purple pill when eating alphas/doing harder fights. The lich is slotted for maximum -hit and recharge - this should give you reasonable -hit debuffs and also allow you to suicide him for Soul Extractions without worrying about recharge. The GK accuracy is low but they should have plenty of tohit from Forge + SA procs. I think with a little bit more work the build can gain a bit more defenses while keeping its strong offensive potential(+ Soul Extraction, + 2 ST attacks, + 1 AoE attack with -res). Villain Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7 https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer Click this DataLink to open the build! Level 50 Magic Mastermind Primary Power Set: Necromancy Secondary Power Set: Thermal Radiation Power Pool: Flight Power Pool: Fighting Power Pool: Leadership Power Pool: Speed Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery Villain Profile: Level 1: Zombie Horde -- SprMarofS-EndRdx/+Resist/+Regen(A), SprMarofS-Acc/EndRdx(3), SprMarofS-Dmg/EndRdx(3), SprMarofS-Dmg(5), SvrRgh-PetResDam(5), EdcoftheM-PetDef(7) Level 1: Warmth -- NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx(A), NmnCnv-EndRdx/Rchg(7), NmnCnv-Heal/Rchg(9), NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(9), NmnCnv-Heal(11), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(11) Level 2: Fire Shield -- RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctArm-ResDam/Rchg(13), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(13), RctArm-ResDam(15) Level 4: Fly -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A) Level 6: Enchant Undead -- EndRdx-I(A) Level 8: Life Drain -- ThfofEss-+End%(A), TchoftheN-%Dam(17), Apc-Dam%(19), GldJvl-Dam%(19), GldJvl-Acc/Dmg(21) Level 10: Cauterize -- Prv-Heal(A), Prv-Heal/Rchg(21), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(23) Level 12: Grave Knight -- SprMarofS-Acc/Dmg(A), SprMarofS-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(23), SlbAll-Build%(25), AchHee-ResDeb%(25), TchofLadG-%Dam(27), ShlBrk-%Dam(27) Level 14: Plasma Shield -- RctArm-EndRdx/Rchg(A), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx(29), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(29), RctArm-ResDam(31) Level 16: Hover -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(43) Level 18: Soul Extraction -- SprCmmoft-Rchg/PetAoEDef(A), SprCmmoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31), SprCmmoft-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(31), SprCmmoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33), ExpRnf-+Res(Pets)(33), CaltoArm-+Def(Pets)(33) Level 20: Boxing -- Empty(A) Level 22: Tough -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A), GldArm-End/Res(34), GldArm-ResDam(34) Level 24: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Rct-ResDam%(34), Rct-Def(36), Rct-Def/EndRdx(36) Level 26: Lich -- CldSns-%Dam(A), SphIns-ToHitDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(36), SphIns-Acc/Rchg(37), SphIns-Acc/ToHitDeb(37), SphIns-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(37), SphIns-ToHitDeb(39) Level 28: Forge -- RechRdx-I(A) Level 30: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(39), RedFrt-Def(39) Level 32: Dark Empowerment -- EndRdx-I(A) Level 35: Tactics -- AdjTrg-ToHit(A), AdjTrg-ToHit/EndRdx(40) Level 38: Melt Armor -- AnlWkn-Acc/Rchg/EndRdx(A), AnlWkn-Acc/Rchg(40), AnlWkn-DefDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(40), RechRdx-I(42) Level 41: Dark Embrace -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(42), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(42), UnbGrd-Max HP%(43), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(43) Level 44: Soul Tentacles -- Ann-ResDeb%(A), Ann-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(45), PstBls-Dam%(45), JvlVll-Dam%(45), TraoftheH-Dam%(46), Bmbdmt-+FireDmg(46) Level 47: Soul Storm -- NrnSht-Dam%(A), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(48), UnbCns-Dam%(48), GldNet-Dam%(48), UnbCns-Acc/Rchg(50), GldJvl-Dam%(50) Level 49: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(50) Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A) Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A) Level 1: Supremacy Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A) Level 4: Ninja Run Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A) Level 2: Health -- Mrc-Rcvry+(A), Pnc-Heal/+End(15) Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A) Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(17) Level 1: Zombie Level 12: Grave Knight Level 26: Lich Level 50: Reactive Radial Flawless Interface Level 50: Intuition Radial Paragon ------------

I'm not sure sacrificing the procs in Enforcers and Bruiser is worth the 13% recharge. For one, those dmg procs do just as much dmg as a perma Gang War. Two, you can get access to recharge much easier by taking an attack with FF. To demonstrate, I replaced sorcery + flying + temporal selection with Fighting. Using cross punch on CD provides 10% recharge(from cross punch itself) + roughly about ~15% from FF procs. Even assuming you only use it half as often as that, that's still ~12.5% recharge you get just from taking that power. I would proceed to unslot the Expedient Reinforcements from Enforcers and Bruiser and use normal Thugs slotting(x3 procs + ToHit/Defense/End Hami in Enforcers, proc + SA + whatever in Bruiser). You'd still be hitting the recharge needed. Villain Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7 https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer Click this DataLink to open the build! Ze Gang War: Level 50 Magic Mastermind Primary Power Set: Thugs Secondary Power Set: Time Manipulation Power Pool: Speed Power Pool: Fighting Power Pool: Leadership Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery Villain Profile: Level 1: Call Thugs -- SprMarofS-Acc/Dmg(A), SprMarofS-Dmg/EndRdx(3), ExpRnf-Acc/Rchg(3), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg(9), ExpRnf-Dmg/EndRdx(17), ExpRnf-+Res(Pets)(43) Level 1: Time Crawl -- Acc-I(A) Level 2: Temporal Mending -- Prv-Heal(A), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(5), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(5), Prv-Heal/Rchg(7), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(7), Prv-Absorb%(9) Level 4: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A) Level 6: Equip Thugs -- EndRdx-I(A) Level 8: Boxing -- Empty(A) Level 10: Kick -- Empty(A) Level 12: Call Enforcer -- SprMarofS-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), SprMarofS-Acc/EndRdx(13), ExpRnf-Dmg/EndRdx(13), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(15), ExpRnf-Acc/Rchg(15), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg(17) Level 14: Time's Juncture -- HO:Enzym(A), HO:Enzym(46) Level 16: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(23), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(23) Level 18: Gang War -- SprCmmoft-Dmg/EndRdx(A), SprCmmoft-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(19), SprCmmoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(19), SprCmmoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(21), RechRdx-I(21), RechRdx-I(46) Level 20: Tough -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A), GldArm-End/Res(25), GldArm-ResDam(39), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(42) Level 22: Distortion Field -- GldNet-Acc/Hold(A), GldNet-Rchg/Hold(37), GldNet-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(37), GldNet-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(39), GldNet-Dam%(45) Level 24: Empty Clips -- Rgn-Dmg(A), Rgn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(25), Rgn-Acc/Rchg(27), Rgn-Dmg/EndRdx(29), Rgn-Knock%(45), OvrFrc-Dam/KB(48) Level 26: Call Bruiser -- SprMarofS-Dmg(A), SprMarofS-EndRdx/+Resist/+Regen(29), ExpRnf-Acc/Rchg(31), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg(31), ExpRnf-Dmg/EndRdx(45), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48) Level 28: Farsight -- Rct-Def(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx(31), Rct-EndRdx/Rchg(33), Rct-Def/Rchg(33), Rct-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(33), Rct-ResDam%(34) Level 30: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), RedFrt-EndRdx(34), RedFrt-Def(34), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(36), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(36), RedFrt-EndRdx/Rchg(36) Level 32: Upgrade Equipment -- EndRdx-I(A) Level 35: Tactics -- HO:Cyto(A), HO:Cyto(37) Level 38: Chrono Shift -- Pnc-Heal/EndRedux(A), Pnc-EndRdx/Rchg(39), Pnc-Heal/Rchg(40), Pnc-Heal/+End(40), Pnc-Heal(40) Level 41: Scorpion Shield -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(42), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(42), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(43) Level 44: Cross Punch -- FrcFdb-Rechg%(A), FuroftheG-ResDeb%(11), Arm-Dam%(11), FuroftheG-Acc/Dmg(46), Obl-%Dam(48), ExpStr-Dam%(50) Level 47: Power Boost -- RechRdx-I(A) Level 49: Vengeance -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A) Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A) Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A) Level 1: Supremacy Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A) Level 4: Ninja Run Level 2: Swift -- Flight-I(A) Level 2: Health -- Mrc-Rcvry+(A) Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A) Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(27) Level 1: Punk Level 1: Arsonist Level 12: Enforcer Level 26: Bruiser Level 50: Agility Radial Paragon ------------

Yes, it does look like a bug, also present in 2.6.0.7. The bug appears to mirror the ingame bug where +damage IOs show increases in +res, but it seems to only apply to incarnates - I tested it with local and global damage, no effect.

Can you break down how this calculation works? If the dps with 3 SOs(~95%, let's round to 100%) is ~25, then the base dps is 12.5. You add supremacy(25%), pack mentality(20%), Howl(? assuming optimal usage, ~18% since it has 15s duration/60s recharge * 3, round to 20%), wild charge(~7.5%). That's a total of 72.5% * 12.5 = ~9dps, for a total of ~34 dps. Apply a multiplier of 20% on top of that(pack mentality crit) and I get ~41 dps before the purple patch. This is pretty much my experience from playing thugs and demons. Rotating 2 attacks(e.g. lash and cross punch) deals slightly more damage than your T3. That's why I think primary attacks can't just be discarded! Of course, it's an immense end drain to use them, but if you want to push your maximum DPS, you should be using at least one. There's also a "breakpoint" effect when fighting +4 AVs - if you haven't cancelled out their regen completely, the DPS you could personally add is multiplied in effectiveness(and least affected by purple patch!), since your pet DPS has to beat their regen first. Assault adds +11.25 ED%, so napkin math it wouldn't add more than (12.5 base dps) * (3 wolves) * 11.25% = ~4.5 dps to the wolves(multiplied by pack mentality, let's say 5-6 dps). I didn't do the math for the rest but I think you're overestimating its effects(applying it a as a multiplier instead of additive damage bonus). Supremacy, Pack Mentality(except for the crit), Howl, Wild Charge, Assault are all addtiive ED% bonuses, added on top of the SO ED%. If assault was an actual 11.25% damage multiplier it'd be pretty good and almost every MM would take it.

EDIT: nvm, stupid point

I'd like to contribute my own table which tries to evaluate the effectiveness of the primaries as well. Caution: it's still a work in progress, and some things are missing from it. Here's the table: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_yMtB-68XEcXEdmUmxf7p0RBd5KYLhbE2dsQXk0CMek/edit?usp=sharing For primary attacks, there are a few important things to consider: - DPS from procs - EPS(endurance per second) - Fill %(assuming you cast it on cd, how much of your available time the attack would take up - e.g. an attack with 1s AT, 3s recharge would have a 25% fill rate) Procs are especially important as they are the primary source of damage for MM powers. In order to simplify calculations, I consider purple procs to be worth x2 normal procs - the math holds for powers with <12s recharge rates. The attacks assume a 0% damage buff as I think slotting accuracy, endurance and procs is more important than any damage%. There's a column for the rare powers where you would slot damage%, and of course, you would often have an alpha MM primary attacks aren't as bad as people make them out to be. For example, the baseline for most good dominator attacks is about ~25 dps. For the pets, I've found that simply adding up their rotations isn't enough. For some pets it's even theoretically impossible to use all their attacks - they have a fill rate > 100%. Beyond that, the pet AI does not use attacks optimally, and there seems to be a bit of a delay sometimes when choosing what attack to execute. This leads to a situation where pets will actually spend time doing nothing, even if they have attacks off CD. I've tried to model this behavior by introducing something called a fill% penalty. From my experience on pylon tests, the fill% penalty seems to model pets fairly close to their actual performance, but I haven't tested all ATs(I primarily play demons, thugs and necro). Again for pets it's very important to count the number of procs they can use. Enforcers are merely middle of the pack with no procs, but when you add them, they become monsters(their proc damage is actually 50% higher than their regular damage!) Some quick conclusions from my POV: - the pets aren't as good and primary attacks aren't as bad as it might seem. Spamming lash can yield ~40-50 dps, which is going to be close to what the top T3 pets can pull. - the key to good dps for MMs, just like defenders, is procs. This usually rules out the T1 power because in most cases it's a simple ranged attack, and that only provides access to "3" procs(1 purple + 1 normal). Good powers provide at least "4" or "5". The T2 power is usually the only one really worth taking for ST dps. The AoE power is sometimes worth taking for AoE DPS. You need to look to the generic and epic pools for other good powers. Arcane Bolt and Cross Punch(with both synergies) are both decent, usually slightly worse than the T2. The epic pool hold provides an OK DPS(roughly T1 levels) but at a much lower endurance cost. - I don't think it's realistic to take a full 'attack chain' on an MM like other ATs. You still want to use your secondary powers regularly. It also puts a huge strain on your slotting. I would take 2(T2 + T3) attacks most of the time, maximum 3(epic pool hold). Comparing attacks to assault isn't really fair...that's one of the weakest powers you can take. Spamming lash without end reduction costs about ~2 eps. If assault was x5 the effectiveness for x5 the cost, it would also be ~2 eps, and provide about 55% ED. If I add that to my table, I see a boost of roughly 40 dps - pretty much the same thing! One last thing: I spent most of a day trying to nail down attack chains for some of the pets. The end result was...they're not very consistent. What might be more useful is a statistical approach - e.g. fight pylons x10 times in a predictable way(I use a /dark taunting tankermind to keep attention off the pets), then collect the combat logs and count how many attacks of each type each pet made - this should get us a rough approximation of how many uses per second each power gets. I actually have a log parser tool to do this, and I might consider doing a few runs for science this week.

I don't think it's really interesting to discuss whether the devs had the correct design philosophy when creating MMs. From what I've heard, they also thought leadership was better on MMs than other ATs because it affects all the pets. You can have incorrect justifications and still arrive at a good place for balance. MMs are in a good place - unlike other ATs, we can still output most of our damage without using endurance, so the rest becomes a balancing act. Sometimes, you need to make decisions which toggles to run and which skills to use - I'd call that good gameplay, rather than being able to mash everything like resource costs don't exist at all. MMs certainly have their weak points - for example, the slowness of resummoning, issues with pet durability/damage due to purple patch, lack of mez resistance, pets following too slowly, and so on. These are all also design decisions made by the dev team, and I think all of them are much, much worse for the balance and overall enjoyment of the MM AT than the endurance penalty. The endurance penalty is a balancing factor(e.g. use less skills -> less problems with endurance), and I think it leaves MMs at an acceptable power level.

I agree that Thugs are a great set(and overall, IMO, better than Demons, for some key reasons you've already noted), but the Demon Prince certainly isn't "half damage half control". He only has 1 attack that doesn't do damage - shiver - and the bruiser has a similar one(hand clap). He also has longer CDs, which pet AI uses more effectively than the extremely short CDs on jab and punch for the bruiser. Realistically, they both deal about the same DPS. The enforcers are the real overpowered pet in the set, holding triple duty as high single target, high aoe and great defensive utility. The Ember Demon actually performs above what the bare numbers suggest, because his rotation is so simple that the AI executes it pretty well. Incidentally, spreadsheet theory suggests that Necromancy should be the highest single target dps at +4. The Lich doesn't do as low dps as his skillset suggests, the GKs are obviously great, and T3 Soul Extraction is only -1 level, so it does really well at +4. Unfortunately, the necro pets are just baseline less tanky than the Demons or Thugs, so I've never been able to figure out how to make a power combo with them.

Assuming a roughly 33% uptime(easily achievable even without hasten), the living hellfires do about as much dps as 1.5 extra T1 pets. They are also the same level as T1 pets so they suffer the same from purple patch. The damage buff is pretty miniscule. I would still consider 4/6 Command of the Mastermind recharge pieces + 2 auras to be standard for HoE. There's room in the demonlings and demon prince to slot the other two auras.

You need to take Enchant Undead/Dark Empowerment, without them the pets won't have most of their skills.

A slow proc in the demon prince is the only really high-performant one, any other procs are luxury. You can technically put a slow proc in the demonlings and a KB proc in the demons, but I'm not really sure they're worth it.

Ignoring /Storm, which is a playstyle on its own, you want the following things to maximize MM dps: 1. Durable pets, because resummoning kills your dps. The most durable pets are thugs(high def), beasts(res and def), demons(high res). Secondaries like Time, Traps, Cold provide def, whereas Thermal, Sonic, Nature provide res. 2. Extra pets - they provide more DPS and easier slotting. Thugs, Necro and Demons all have extra pets. 3. Pets with lots of procs - luckily, most of the primaries can socket procs. Thugs, Necro, Beasts, Mercs, Ninjas can all slot lots of procs 4. Good personal attacks that can slot 4-5 procs(preferrably including purple procs). Demons are the best here by far, but the other primaries can utilize powers like Arcane Bolt, Cross Punch, epic powers, etc. MMs usually have a lot of sustains so you need some way to manage the endurance drain of spamming the attacks. 5. Lots of -res - the main damage scaler for MM. Most of the good MM secondaries provide it, but you need to also look for possibilities to slot -res procs into your rotation - Achilles Heel, Annihiliation, Fury of the Gladiator. Thugs and Mercs have -def which gives you easy access to Achilles Heel. Some of the secondaries have -def as well(e.g. /Time). AoE powers are an easy source of Annihiliation. 6. Lots of -regen - even with all the aforementioned tricks, MMs don't produce the sheer raw DPS vs +4 mobs that other classes can, due to the purple patch. Stacking -regen can even the playing field. Traps, Cold, Thermal, Dark all have high amounts of -Regen, and Bots also sport a ton. Mixing and matching these together, I come up with my favourite combos. I think they can be called "the strongest" in the sense that they try to maximize all the main strengths of MM. Thugs/Time + great defense, heals + extra endurance recovery for personal attacks + very high damage, including high aoe thanks to enforcers + easy access to achilles heel, good -res power = dual wield is a decent personal attack(3 procs and FF) - very low amounts of -regen Demons/Dark + great debuffs, heals + extra -res from primary + Lash and Crack Whip are the best primary attacks MM has access to - they have great damage, reasonable endurance cost, can slot tons of procs and have even extra -res. + great access to -regen - stackable -regen from twilight grasp + Howling Twilight. Pushed to the max can reach about a consistent -500% regen. = reasonably tanky pets - endurance costs - debuffs are a softer form of protection than straight up defense Demons/Thermal + Capped 90% resistance on pets, heals + Lash and Crack Whip + High -regen(-500%) = Thermal doesn't provide any personal defense - Difficult slotting due to multiple powers not accepting sets I think there must be some way to utilize Necro, but I haven't been satisfied with any of the builds I tried yet. Traps are also a decent secondary, having defense and -regen, but they don't have heals and trip mine/detonator are underwhelming. Cold provides strong pet defenses, but usually not enough to softcap on their own, and has good -regen and -res, but no heals.

Uh, well, I can't really endorse petless builds, but even then I disagree with your slotting. Get global accuracy and stack procs on the attacks - a full dmg IO gives less damage than a proc to our attacks. Electric Shackles is actually a better DPS spell than Corruption. Here's how I would do it: Villain Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7 https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer Click this DataLink to open the build! Level 50 Magic Mastermind Primary Power Set: Demon Summoning Secondary Power Set: Dark Miasma Power Pool: Sorcery Power Pool: Fighting Power Pool: Speed Ancillary Pool: Mu Mastery Villain Profile: Level 1: Corruption -- Empty(A) Level 1: Twilight Grasp -- TchoftheN-Acc/EndRdx/Heal/HP/Regen(A), TchoftheN-Acc/Heal(3), TchoftheN-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(3), ThfofEss-+End%(5) Level 2: Lash -- TchofDth-Dam%(A), Hct-Dam%(5), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg(7), GldStr-%Dam(7), ExpStr-Dam%(9), FrcFdb-Rechg%(9) Level 4: Tar Patch -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(13) Level 6: Darkest Night -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(13) Level 8: Crack Whip -- Ann-ResDeb%(A), Ann-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(15), PstBls-Dam%(15), ExpStr-Dam%(17), JvlVll-Dam%(17), FrcFdb-Rechg%(19) Level 10: Arcane Bolt -- Apc-Dam%(A), ExpStr-Dam%(19), FrcFdb-Rechg%(21), GldJvl-Dam%(37), GldJvl-Acc/Dmg(37) Level 12: Howling Twilight -- RechRdx-I(A) Level 14: Mystic Flight -- Frb-Stlth(A) Level 16: Shadow Fall -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(23), RedFrt-Def(23), GldArm-ResDam(25), GldArm-End/Res(40), GldArm-3defTpProc(40) Level 18: Kick -- Empty(A) Level 20: Fearsome Stare -- SphIns-ToHitDeb(A), SphIns-Acc/ToHitDeb(25), SphIns-Acc/Rchg(27), SphIns-ToHitDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(27), SphIns-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(29) Level 22: Tough -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), EndRdx-I(29) Level 24: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Rct-Def(31), Ksm-ToHit+(31), Rct-Def/EndRdx(33), Rct-ResDam%(33) Level 26: Hell on Earth -- SprCmmoft-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(A), SprCmmoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33), SprCmmoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34), SprCmmoft-Rchg/PetAoEDef(34), EdcoftheM-PetDef(40), SvrRgh-PetResDam(43) Level 28: Summon Demon Prince -- SprMarofS-Acc/Dmg(A), SprMarofS-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(31), SprMarofS-Dmg/EndRdx(34), SprMarofS-EndRdx/+Resist/+Regen(36), ImpSwf-Dam%(36), SlbAll-Build%(36) Level 30: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(37) Level 32: Abyssal Empowerment -- EndRdx-I(A) Level 35: Rune of Protection -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(43) Level 38: Dark Servant -- SphIns-ToHitDeb(A), SphIns-Acc/ToHitDeb(39), SphIns-Acc/Rchg(39), SphIns-ToHitDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(39), SphIns-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(46), CldSns-%Dam(46) Level 41: Charged Armor -- UnbGrd-Max HP%(A), UnbGrd-ResDam(42), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(42), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(42) Level 44: Electrifying Fences -- Ann-ResDeb%(A), Ann-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(45), PstBls-Dam%(45), JvlVll-Dam%(45), TraoftheH-Dam%(46), Bmbdmt-+FireDmg(50) Level 47: Electric Shackles -- UnbCns-Dam%(A), GldJvl-Dam%(48), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(48), GldNet-Dam%(48), UnbCns-Acc/Rchg(50), NrnSht-Dam%(50) Level 49: Enchant Demon -- EndRdx-I(A) Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A) Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A) Level 1: Supremacy Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A) Level 4: Ninja Run Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A) Level 2: Health -- NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Mrc-Rcvry+(11) Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A) Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(11) Level 28: Demon Prince Level 50: Nerve Core Paragon ------------ I didn't focus on completing the build properly, I tried to mostly slot the existing skills you were using. Still, the build is fairly close to 32.5% S/L def and you could probably take combat jumping instead of the sorcery stuff

This is roughly how the procs stack up. I'm using my chart to determine these numbers: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_yMtB-68XEcXEdmUmxf7p0RBd5KYLhbE2dsQXk0CMek/edit#gid=937807465 1 dmg proc ~= 7.5 dps Gaussian = ~50% uptime of 60%(?) damage ~= 30% ED ~= 5.2 dps. (This is because Gaussian in Tactics checks for procs once every 10 seconds - that's how auras and rains work - and lasts 5.5 seconds, so its maximum uptime is 55%) Soulbound Allegiance = ~100% uptime of 80%(?) damage = 80% ED = ~14 dps(SA procs off of every attack, the end result is pretty much 100% uptime. I don't remember if the procs from different attacks stack, but I seem to remember they do, in that case it can be even better - needs some testing). Achilles Heel is undoubtedly the best since -20% res is easiler over 40 dps(if you're doing about 200 baseline dps, which is easily reachable by MM, slapping 20% -res on top results in +40 dps). (What does "dps" mean here? It's kind of an abstract value, that works well to compare damage improvements to each other. Obviously, a target with resistances, or debuffed with -res may take more or less damage, but that affects all damage, so the values can be used for comparison purposes still). I think SA is better fit on bruiser, since he has more slots to play with. I usually slot enforcers with: Sup Mark of Sup - Acc/End/Dmg Sup Mark of Sup - Dmg/End Cyto - ToHit, Defense, End Lady Grey Shield Breaker Achilles Heel Enforcers need some accuracy, but not a lot, since they're only -1 level and they've got supremacy(+10% hit), tactics(+10% hit) and enforcer tactics(+12% hit). Also, most of their attacks have a 1.1 accuracy modifier and have -def debuffs.

I don't think so. The zombies have roughly a 55% total fill rate(I define fill rate as the percentage time it takes to use a skill if you use it perfectly off CD - e.g. a 1s cast, 3s CD skill is a 25% fill rate), the beasts have about 75%. If you sum up the theoretical maximum APM(actions per minute) for beasts, you get 27.6. For zombies, it's 22.5. I think the difference is easier to explain with poor attack scheduling - e.g. zombies only have one short CD attack, brawl, vs the 2 for wolves, and vicious bite is practically never going to be used properly on CD. The shorter cooldowns are a bit misleading - vicious bite is only marginally better than zombie brawl(1.452 cast time + 3s recharge vs 0.924 cast time + 4s recharge). Similarly, maiming bite's extremely long cast time - 2.64 - means the maximum APM you can get out of it is similar to feral charge, even though it's 6s CD vs 8s CD. It's no surprise Genin have 50% more attacks, not only is their fill rate 120%(meaning they could never use all their attacks), but all their attacks animate for 1s, except for Crane Kick at 2. If you sum up their APM, it comes out to 51. In your example, the 31 APM for genin means they are achieving roughly 70% fill rate - you can see that this affects ninjas worse than beasts, which are achieving roughly ~58% fill rate with a maximum of 75%, and the zombies are basically achieving their 55% maximum fill rate, which matches what I've seen happen in pylon tests. (Source for APM, Fill% values - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_yMtB-68XEcXEdmUmxf7p0RBd5KYLhbE2dsQXk0CMek/edit#gid=1398626015) My point is that this isn't a beasts issue, but a general pet issue. From my(and another user's, unfortunately I forgot their nick) testing on pylons, none of the mobs reach even close to optimal fill rate. Most of the mobs seemed to reach between 55-70% fill rate - including both mobs that have a low fill rate (zombies, arsonist) and a really high one(all ninjas, bruiser, gargoyle). This is so prevalent that I've factored it in my "theoretical DPS" calculation - for every pet I assume that the maximum theoretical skill usage it's going to get is 70% - you can see that in my Demons/Thugs/Ninjas calculations.

This isn't just an issue with beasts - all the pets do it. It's perhaps more obvious due to animations, or being melee, but from my testing on pylons even pets that essentially always have something off cd(genin, jounin) will have downtime between attacks.

+ Resist affects only ember shield. A better way to explain it is that the base resistances aren't affected by anything, +Resist affects skills that pets use. Ember shield is split into two parts: +10% S/L(and a few other res) to all* pets and the MM. +5% S/L(and a few other res) only to the MM. Both of these are enhanceable. IIRC the ember shield doesn't affect the ember demon itself. You can just look at the IO you are slotting to see roughly what enhancement you're getting. ED for +resist starts kicking in around ~45%, so you can just add their values until roughly that point. At level 50 with 2 slotted IOs you can expect roughly a ~50% enhancement on the shield, meaning it provides ~22.5% S/L(+ a few other) to the MM, and ~15% to the demons. This is one of the strongest survivability tools for demons, as even without a +res secondary, it bumps their resistance from ~70% -> ~75%, an overall ~20% increase in survivability. If you have a +res buff it's even better, as pets can go all the way up to 90% res.

Hi, I thought I'd chime in since I do most of the cheerleading for /Dark on the MM forums. I think these changes barely impact MMs. From what I can see the strongest part of TG is completely unaffected - the stackable debuff it places due to being a pseudopet. The Dark Servant also still seems to maintain defender scaling(please don't change it :P). The heal nerf is practically irrelevant for an MM - TG was already one of the best heals in the game, now it's...still one of the best heals in the game. The nerf to Tar Patch is a bit more noticable, but the ATs that can use /Dark can also stack a lot of -Res, so the end result is not as bad. I think the biggest problem with /Dark is that it's a great fit for MMs, and it works for Controllers due to Dark Affinity's Fade. It underperforms for Corruptors and Defenders. Maybe Defenders can be given Dark Affinity instead of Dark Miasma as well. I don't really know what to do about it on Corruptors. One option would be to give Dark Affinity to everyone, but significantly nerf Fade, or make it replace Shadow Fall, or something along those lines.

The problem is that it's not an astronomically faster rate. Pets by default have roughly 150% enhanced damage - ~120% from ED + Alpha Incarnate, and 25% from Supremacy. This leaves a maximum of 150% ED on top. Let's assume Fulcrum Shift is always adding that, then it is *at most* a ~60% damage increase(400% vs 250%). Then you have to factor in procs and interface, and the overall maximum number FS can contribute to pets becomes much lower.

Pets cap at 90% resistance, not at 75%. Increased Density is actually one of the best buffs for pets, mainly because it provides mez protection(KB especially). This is something interesting to think about, but the problem is Fortify Pack disables Pack Mentality, which is where Beasts get a lot of their damage.

Here's how I start off slotting Thugs: Villain Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7 https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer Click this DataLink to open the build! Level 49 Technology Mastermind Primary Power Set: Thugs Secondary Power Set: Time Manipulation Villain Profile: Level 1: Call Thugs -- MarofSpr-Acc/EndRdx(A), SprMarofS-EndRdx/+Resist/+Regen(3), SprMarofS-Dmg/EndRdx(3), SprMarofS-Acc/Dmg(5), OvrFrc-Dam/KB(5), ExpStr-Dam%(7) Level 1: Time Crawl -- Empty(A) Level 2: [Empty] Level 4: [Empty] Level 6: [Empty] Level 8: [Empty] Level 10: [Empty] Level 12: Call Enforcer -- MarofSpr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), SprMarofS-Dmg(13), HO:Cyto(13), ShlBrk-%Dam(15), AchHee-ResDeb%(15), TchofLadG-%Dam(17) Level 14: [Empty] Level 16: [Empty] Level 18: Gang War -- SprCmmoft-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(A), SprCmmoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(19), SprCmmoft-Rchg/PetAoEDef(19), SprCmmoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(21), EdcoftheM-PetDef(21), SvrRgh-PetResDam(23) Level 20: [Empty] Level 22: [Empty] Level 24: [Empty] Level 26: Call Bruiser -- SlbAll-Build%(A), ExpStr-Dam%(27), CmmoftheM-Acc/Dmg(27), SprCmmoft-Dmg/EndRdx(29), SlbAll-Dmg/EndRdx(29), CaltoArm-+Def(Pets)(31) Level 28: [Empty] Level 30: [Empty] Level 32: [Empty] Level 35: [Empty] Level 38: [Empty] Level 41: [Empty] Level 44: [Empty] Level 47: [Empty] Level 49: [Empty] Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A) Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A) Level 1: Supremacy Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A) Level 4: Ninja Run Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A) Level 2: Health -- Empty(A) Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A) Level 2: Stamina -- Empty(A) Level 1: Punk Level 1: Arsonist Level 12: Enforcer Level 26: Bruiser Level 50: Musculature Radial Paragon ------------ The Gang War slotting is pretty much set in stone. The enforcers depend a bit on the rest of the build - if the build caps pet defense without it, I would replace the cyto with something that gives acc/dmg. You can also try to squeeze in the small res aura from expedient by dropping overwhelming force or explosive strike in thugs. If you don't need the def/accuracy bonuses from 4-slot Supremacy, or want some extra recharge, swap the 2p Command in Bruiser with the matching 2p Supremacy in Thugs.