How to scare away new players.

[jubakumbi]

1 minute ago, PaxArcana said:

So, anything that isn't agreement or obsequiousness, is "being frail or thin-skinned", now?  🙄

Naw, IMO, more like you seem to go full attack mode, well, all the time, with very little empathy and assume no one else has any, and then attack thier moral character when they hold fast to a position on which you do not agree.

 

It's kind of tiresome and tedious, TBH.

 

Even when someone tries to engage with you, if they don't agree, it's all just "RAWR! You don't understand Mental Illness, or whatever."

At least, that's how I see it...

[PaxArcana]

Just now, Prototech said:

You took offense at my post,

No, actually I didn't, you just assume I did.

 

I simply elected not to mollycoddle the sensibilities of someone who would be so harshly dismissive of others' sensibilities in turn, because what's sauce for th goose is also sauce for the gander.

[PaxArcana]

Just now, jubakumbi said:

At least, that's how I see it...

You and I most often strongly hold diametrically opposed opinions.  You've only really noticed posts where I've grown exasperated with someone's nonsense.

 

I will admit I don't tend to let things go once I'm engaged - but that's hardly a unique failing.  You don't seem to be very keen on it, either, for example.

[Prototech]

1 minute ago, PaxArcana said:

No, actually I didn't, you just assume I did.

 

I simply elected not to mollycoddle the sensibilities of someone who would be so harshly dismissive of others' sensibilities in turn, because what's sauce for th goose is also sauce for the gander.

If you didn't take offense at my post then your response reflects even more poorly on you. My assumption was in your favor.

[PaxArcana]

Just now, Prototech said:

If you didn't take offense at my post then your response reflects even more poorly on you. My assumption was in your favor.

... this is so far divorced from reality, I think it's not worth even trying to engage with you anymore.

 

Congratulations, you "win".  Go celebrate or whatever.

[Prototech]

1 minute ago, PaxArcana said:

... this is so far divorced from reality, I think it's not worth even trying to engage with you anymore.

 

Congratulations, you "win".  Go celebrate or whatever.

Aw come on, I thought you could do better than that. 

 

It's so simple; why lash out if you're not offended? What does that say about someone advocating empathy? It was a simple concept, I hoped you'd be a bit more clever in your comeback.

 

 

[jubakumbi]

1 minute ago, PaxArcana said:

... this is so far divorced from reality, I think it's not worth even trying to engage with you anymore.

 

Congratulations, you "win".  Go celebrate or whatever.

See?

 

4 minutes ago, PaxArcana said:

You and I most often strongly hold diametrically opposed opinions.  You've only really noticed posts where I've grown exasperated with someone's nonsense.

 

I will admit I don't tend to let things go once I'm engaged - but that's hardly a unique failing.  You don't seem to be very keen on it, either, for example.

Not really, actualy.

I think the only thing we have disagreed on is about IP and Creativity.

I agree with a ton of what you post, just not the tone.

 

You decided very early that you disliked the way I use FUD, assuming I was being dissmissive, and have bacically attacked ME, not the ideas, at many turns.

I see you do it to others, just as happened now.

 

The difference is just that - I am trying to discuss ideas, not make personal attacks.

I am not out to get anyone, I just want to discuss things without being told to 'go F myself'.

 

Your exasperation, IMO, is no excuse, I have been more than exasperated by many things you and other have posted, without resorting to specific personal attacks unless attacked and even then I try to not go there, only defend my position.

As a I just posted in another thread, I will clap back, but I don't start off on the offesive.

 

IME, you are just on full offense and when someone tries to really discuss, you disengage, or just attack the messenger.

[Insomm]

48 minutes ago, Prototech said:

You're a bit of a hippie but I appreciate you. I don't disagree as much as you may think.

🤣 I believe it partly comes from having left my home country at a very young age. I went through my schooling and work alongside people from several different continents. Not to mention the plethora of different cultural backgrounds and opinions.

Sooner or later, you learn that there are certain things about people that you might never fully understand, and you just have to accept them.

That said, often times I am blinded by frustration, but I'll go on a limb and say that is not a flaw exclusive to me. 😛
 

1 hour ago, Leogunner said:

Reading the OP, I have no sympathy. 

 

Granted the guy you chatted with may not have been the nicest but you just lable them a "bad apple" and then dismiss his points? That's fine but it's exactly why I have no sympathy for this story and gives me a chuckle reading all the replies rushing in support. 

 

Maybe I'm insane but I don't think you need a COMPLETED farming build to farm with it. Difficulty sliders exist... 

I am extremely glad that you, and some others, have decided to voice an opposing opinion when it comes to this.
Like I said earlier, I was incredibly frustrated, and the OP was a rant.

The goal of the post was never to become a "you have my sympathies" or a social opinion discussion post in the first place.
Although I appreciate all of those who are passionate and have taken it into those directions, the idea was to discuss a mentality about something that is part of the game.

At no point did I mean to diminish or insult anyone, specially not the one player from that interaction.
I meant to bring up something I saw as an issue in a mentality that is not unique to one person in this community.
That mentality is what I wanted to address and, to a certain extent, pull apart.
 

27 minutes ago, TheOtherTed said:

Speaking of that, and speaking of personal history/experience, I'll throw it out there that the mentality of the person you encountered (and perhaps other, similar, people) does have some history behind it.  You said in your initial post that you didn't have a chance to play back in the day, so there's no reason I or anyone else could expect you to know the history.  I'll give a quick recap here (as I understand it); maybe it will help see where "the other guy" was coming from.

All of it makes a lot more sense with this.
Since that interaction I have heard slightly different tellings of these events from the live servers, and little by little I can relate it a little more to my opinion about things in other games that I play/played.

At the end of the day, the goal is to have more people think like you:

27 minutes ago, TheOtherTed said:

More generally speaking, it took me a long time to realize how diverse individual histories and points-of-view could be - but when I finally started to "get it," it changed my outlook on a lot of interactions.  Nowadays, if I hear someone say something that's a bit "off," my first reaction is usually not to call the speaker a jarkarse or moron or other bad word (usually), but to tilt my head and say "Why do you say that?"

Edit: Just to clarify, I don't mean this in anyone's everyday lives (although that would be great), but when it comes to things like dislikes of the AE or whatever other concept in a different game.

Try and keep this related to the game.

Edited September 26, 2019 by Insomm

[Leogunner]

2 minutes ago, Insomm said:

I am extremely glad that you, and some others, have decided to voice an opposing opinion when it comes to this.
Like I said earlier, I was incredibly frustrated, and the OP was a rant.

The goal of the post was never to become a "you have my sympathies" or a social opinion discussion post in the first place.
Although I appreciate all of those who are passionate and have taken it into those directions, the idea was to discuss a mentality about something that is part of the game.

Well there's always more than one side to a story.  You pointed to a mentality you felt oppressive or obnoxious or [insert whatever purpose you decided to highlight the example] but on the reverse, have you reflected on yourself?

 

While I don't actually make posts about it because "fuck it, you do you", I read your whole post (begrudgingly, mind you. I could tell by roughly half way through, the story was meant to frame your side in a sympathetic manner to make the log more egregious).  Again, I say the person you responded to has some points.  But again, what did you do?  You're trying to frame advice in a manner that is some sort of "community wide" mentality that has dome something to the game.

 

Again, have you reflected on yourself?  You like to make characters.  You like to fund their builds.  Those builds are very expensive.  Have you thought about cheaper builds?  Easier builds?  Or *gasp* sub-optimal builds?  You don't need soft-capped defense and perma-hasten to do well.  If you're running TFs, your build is going to get chopped by varying level caps.  Even min/maxed, the game isn't even that hard for an expensive build to be necessary...but you feel gated by the game or community or some kind of amorphous mentality and thus you've neglected the reason to play the game at all.

 

Like you mentioned playing the market...then complaining how long you had to do it!?  I know there are people that enjoy flubbing with the markets in games...if it's not something you want to do, then don't.

 

tl;dr:  If you put a mirror up to yourself, you are actually just as guilty of harboring certain "mentalities" that have negatively altered the game as the person you're framing in those /tells...I have no idea why you don't see it too.

[Insomm]

12 minutes ago, Leogunner said:

Well there's always more than one side to a story.  You pointed to a mentality you felt oppressive or obnoxious or [insert whatever purpose you decided to highlight the example] but on the reverse, have you reflected on yourself?

 

While I don't actually make posts about it because "fuck it, you do you", I read your whole post (begrudgingly, mind you. I could tell by roughly half way through, the story was meant to frame your side in a sympathetic manner to make the log more egregious).  Again, I say the person you responded to has some points.  But again, what did you do?  You're trying to frame advice in a manner that is some sort of "community wide" mentality that has dome something to the game.

 

Again, have you reflected on yourself?  You like to make characters.  You like to fund their builds.  Those builds are very expensive.  Have you thought about cheaper builds?  Easier builds?  Or *gasp* sub-optimal builds?  You don't need soft-capped defense and perma-hasten to do well.  If you're running TFs, your build is going to get chopped by varying level caps.  Even min/maxed, the game isn't even that hard for an expensive build to be necessary...but you feel gated by the game or community or some kind of amorphous mentality and thus you've neglected the reason to play the game at all.

 

Like you mentioned playing the market...then complaining how long you had to do it!?  I know there are people that enjoy flubbing with the markets in games...if it's not something you want to do, then don't.

[...]

Well, since we are talking specifically about my mentality, I did in fact reflect on it.
I dislike quoting myself, but seeing it has been lost amidst several pages of discussion, I will do it just to illustrate the point.

I noted that I reflected on my interaction with the player here:

/2019 at 11:54 PM, Insomm said:

A couple of you mentioned how I basically fed into it, or how I was in the wrong much like the other player.
I agree, 100%.
I am not proud of it, and I didn't post it here to do that.
I also did not post it here to shame this person, hence I censored the chat as much as I could.
[...]
Was I wrong in the way I interacted with him/her? Yes, I was.

At several points this could have turned into a conversation that was mutually beneficial.
However, I was frustrated.
This wasn't the first message like this, and I have already been struggling to pick up the game.
[...]

And I noted that I reflected on my choices of how to play the game here:

On 9/24/2019 at 1:09 AM, Insomm said:

This I believe is a big part of the issue/mistake I have committed when it comes to my personal enjoyment.
[...]

However, the more important point to why I decided to bring all of this up in the first place (although my point was mildly lost through frustration and bias):

12 minutes ago, Leogunner said:

tl;dr:  If you put a mirror up to yourself, you are actually just as guilty of harboring certain "mentalities" that have negatively altered the game as the person you're framing in those /tells...I have no idea why you don't see it too.

Although my mentality was also flawed, it did not initially impact anyone else playing the game other than myself.
This player (and others), chose to actively seek someone who had been playing the game to voice their mentality.

This is where my issue came in.

You could say that by posting my (obviously biased) version of events in here I have done the same as they have.
I would personally disagree, as this is a public forum, and not anyone's inbox. But that too is up for debate.

[Marine X]

Been sitting back as this topic kept growing bigger and bigger, and really wasn't sure what i could add. Then I remembered this.

That's 9936 Brutes with Fiery Aura versus 6232 with any other Defense/Damage Resistance Type. It has never been considered the best Set for mission play but is perfect for Fire Farms. That's almost 2/3 of all Brutes have Fiery Aura and I think that pretty much tells you how most people in game feel about Power leveling and Farming. You will have those that prefer doing Regular Content, I'm one of them. But I still PL some Characters and Prefer to Play Content with Others. For me if I am playing a new set I like to see how things work slowly, see where I need to shore things up as I level, and rarely Respec. The Person you encountered had his Opinion formed long before he spoke to you, but his responses, and yours show you are from 2 different points of view. Even though it escalated to a place, on both sides, I think he needs to look around and realize that the Game was never quite like he believes it was. There was always Power Leveling, used to be Fire Controllers and the Dreck Mission, before AE, that people used to Power Level, and something else before that. This has always gone on. We wanted our Game back, We got it back, warts and all so to speak. Just keep in mind that if Even Half of the 9936 are Farmers, there may be more of them than Us. Anyway, Have a Great Day.

 

 

 

 

[Leogunner]

4 minutes ago, Insomm said:

Well, since we are talking specifically about my mentality, I did in fact reflect on it.
I dislike quoting myself, but seeing it has been lost amidst several pages of discussion, I will do it just to illustrate the point.

I noted that I reflected on my interaction with the player here:

And I noted that I reflected on my choices of how to play the game here:

However, the more important point to why I decided to bring all of this up in the first place (although my point was mildly lost through frustration and bias):

Although my mentality was also flawed, it did not initially impact anyone else playing the game other than myself.
This player (and others), chose to actively seek someone who had been playing the game to voice their mentality.

This is where my issue came in.

You could say that by posting my (obviously biased) version of events in here I have done the same as they have.
I would personally disagree, as this is a public forum, and not anyone's inbox. But that too is up for debate.

Well I'll admit, I didn't read even a quarter of this thread, so I did miss out on those quotes.

 

Seems we share much of the same outlook here.  I guess I could take away from your final point there that you feel the community in the game is overly vocally opinionated (thus seeking out people to sharing those opinions)?  I think that's more a product of the internet, if that's what you're touching on.

 

It's also possible that vocal opinionated mentality is why this thread has gotten to the state that it is in.  You just have to take the good with the bad.  I'm sure there's some good you've gathered from this, like advice on farming or builds.

[Twisted Toon]

2 hours ago, PaxArcana said:

That actually proves my point, TT.

 

MLK wasn't born exceptional, no.  But by the time his message was being heard by the entire nation, he had BECOME exceptional.

 

The only difference between then and now, is that now even the ordinary for all their lives people have larger audiences.  It is no longer the sole domain of the extraordinary to be able to share their message far and wide - whether the exceptional or extraordinary facet is luck, effort, wealth, or whatever ... it's no longer needed.  Every random Joe or Jane Q. Citizen has access to platforms that reach millions, even _billions_, of people.

And that is my point.  The bar for entry is much lower now, than it was 100, 50, or even just 30 years ago.  Anyone can have a voice that gets heard by millions.

 

And that's where your error lays, TT.  You think you're hearing more voices, because they all just want attention and don't really have any true complaint.

 

The truth is, EVEN MLK "just wanted attention", when you boil it down to the simplest factors.  He wanted it for a damned fine reason, but, most of his efforts in the civil rights movement were to get attention.

 

So what's really going on, is: you are hearing more voices, because more people have access to the means to get their voice heard. End of reason.

This is all a tangent from the original point I made in my first post.

 

What it all boils down to is that how you react to any given stimuli is your choice. You can choose to be offended, or you can choose to react differently. Due to life experiences, it may be difficult to not react negatively to some situations. However, as a thinking, reasoning, being, you have that choice. Whether you have the will or desire to overcome some of the life experience programming you've gone through is on you. (Generally speaking, not focused on any one individual)

 

Again, We will, most likely, be agreeing to disagree here.

[Insomm]

5 minutes ago, Leogunner said:

Well I'll admit, I didn't read even a quarter of this thread, so I did miss out on those quotes.

 

Seems we share much of the same outlook here.  I guess I could take away from your final point there that you feel the community in the game is overly vocally opinionated (thus seeking out people to sharing those opinions)?  I think that's more a product of the internet, if that's what you're touching on.

 

It's also possible that vocal opinionated mentality is why this thread has gotten to the state that it is in.  You just have to take the good with the bad.  I'm sure there's some good you've gathered from this, like advice on farming or builds.

I honestly suspect most haven't. Hence why I thought quoting those could be helpful.

I have personally learnt a lot from this topic already, and must say while I partially understood the people sending me tells, I have a much better idea of where they are coming from now.
While my main point is sadly something far too common in the internet, I felt like it could be an interesting thing to bring up here.

Maybe a few people can learn from some of the posts in this topic much like I have. 😊

11 minutes ago, Marine X said:

Been sitting back as this topic kept growing bigger and bigger, and really wasn't sure what i could add. Then I remembered this.

I had seen those graphs but also did not think about bringing them up.

I must say, the ratios are kind of scary to see...

Maybe it comes down a little bit to the fact that it is very easy to make a farmer and speed up the process for a few things that many of us don't have time for anymore in our day-to-day lives.

The irony here is that AE farming (although some may enjoy it) is potentially the most dull type of grinding in the game, same maps, same mobs, same build, over, and over, and over again.
I suppose the popularity stems from time efficiency.

[PaxArcana]

17 minutes ago, Twisted Toon said:

You can choose to be offended, or you can choose to react differently.

This is where you're making the mistake.

 

Being offended, and expressing that you are offended, are two entirely different things.

 

And with that, I'm done with this thread.  None of you are worth my time anymore.

[Prototech]

32 minutes ago, PaxArcana said:

This is where you're making the mistake.

 

Being offended, and expressing that you are offended, are two entirely different things.

 

And with that, I'm done with this thread.  None of you are worth my time anymore.

One of my life's goals was becoming worthy of your time. I have failed. I'm a failure.

[Twisted Toon]

1 hour ago, PaxArcana said:

This is where you're making the mistake.

 

Being offended, and expressing that you are offended, are two entirely different things.

 

And with that, I'm done with this thread.  None of you are worth my time anymore.

I would point out that it takes a fundamental change in the way you think in order to choose to not be offended by what people say and/or do.

I would point out that the vast majority of the human population would not want to put in the effort to make that fundamental change to their way of thinking.

I would point out that being irritated, frustrated, or annoyed by something is not the same as being offended.

 

I would point all that out, but, you're done with this thread.

[Sanguinesun]

17 hours ago, PaxArcana said:

No, not really.  I've written "letters to the editor" before (and had them printed in the paper), you see, and learned two things:

• Most of them never get published.  The larger the paper's circulation, the less likely you will ever see your letter in print.
• Even when they do, they are often HEAVILY edited, and while the core message is usually not altered, the tone likely will be, and there may be a LOT of pruning.

Whereas, on the internet?  Unless you break the rules ... your words, all of them, absolutely will be what show up in that forum.  Or on that social media platform.  Etc.

 

🙂

 

Depends on the newspaper as well. My father worked in the newspaper industry for 30 years with 3 different newspapers with circulations of 50k to 500k(respectively at the time with those papers) editorial comment back n forths were a pretty common mainstay and valued by the paper in circulation terms.  Outside of over the top nutters(just like with net forums), they tended to not censor/edit (except for spelling/grammar that I remember) as you elude.

[ShardWarrior]

6 hours ago, Sanguinesun said:

Depends on the newspaper as well. My father worked in the newspaper industry for 30 years with 3 different newspapers with circulations of 50k to 500k(respectively at the time with those papers) editorial comment back n forths were a pretty common mainstay and valued by the paper in circulation terms.  Outside of over the top nutters(just like with net forums), they tended to not censor/edit (except for spelling/grammar that I remember) as you elude.

And one important thing in my opinion is that with the tools available today, it is abundantly clear not everyone should be able to reach millions of people instantly. 

[ZeeHero]

People should always be able to play in a way they have fun. good game designers know this and design the game to facilitate it as much as possible. Bad ones try and force the players to play how they think the game should be played- as we see in a certain other super hero game today.

 

That said if you need help making influence I can tell you how I've made a few hundred million at least. buy enhancement boosters with merits they sell for over a million each. with 100 merits you can make 20M or more, 300 merits can make you 60-70M (I'm bad at math ok but its an estimate)

 

Merits are made by running TFs, Doing Hamidon raids, getting certain badges, you can even convert empyrian merits into reward merits too.

Edited September 27, 2019 by ZeeHero

[Abraxus]

I've missed a lot of this conversation, but what I have caught begs the question of whether, or not, what needed to be said, has already been said numerous times. 

 

The points have been made, vigorously debated back and forth, and warnings about civility have been given at various points along the way by the GMs/Devs. 

At first glance, it no longer seems that there is anything constructive served by further discussion.  Only folks arguing back, and forth. 

[Frostbiter]

You say that like it's unusual around here Abraxus.

[Abraxus]

1 minute ago, Frostbiter said:

You say that like it's unusual around here Abraxus.

I realize it's not uncommon.  But, in most cases, if we stop a moment, and take stock of what the OP was really getting at, I think in most cases we'd find that the topic was actually addressed many posts before, and things are just going in circles, ever spiraling towards being locked for conduct, or being deemed resolved by a GM.  IMHO, this thread has reached that point.

[ZeeHero]

On 9/22/2019 at 12:38 AM, THEDarkTyger said:

Contrary to what edgelords and internet trolls like to claim, whether or not something bothers you is NOT a choice.

Exactly. if something bothers someone NOTHING in the UNIVERSE will stop that. how they act while they are bothered is more up to them but in many cases may be difficult to handle as well. giving people who explode once in a while the benefit of the doubt is the mark of a good person. some people are a bit unstable but very nice if you bother getting to know them.

[Graviton]

4 minutes ago, ZeeHero said:

Exactly. if something bothers someone NOTHING in the UNIVERSE will stop that. 

Isn't that an admission that other people are in control of your emotions?  Any yahoo who knows which button to push can drive you crazy and there's nothing you can do about it?  It's a Pavlovian response that's hard-wired? 

 

Okay, I guess.  I prefer choosing what to worry about.  If that's merely an illusion then I guess I'm a fool, but life seems to be much less exhausting this way.