How to scare away new players.

[Lines]

On the polarising opinions surrounding PLing and AE, I share the offending butthole's purist disposition. I have very strong opinions about I should be playing the game and it's a very special case where I toe the line outside of what I think is correct.

 

But those opinions are for me. They're more like self-imposed challenges rather than playing the 'correct' way. Honestly, the way I play can feel like quicksand at times. I wouldn't want to impose that on anyone else like some preacher-of-the-true-way because the true way can be tedious, especially by your fourth 50. The only time I've come close to this to this was when a new player got to 20ish on redside via DfB and then was totally lost. The community was offering advice, but the amount of things to do at level 20 was information overload (IOs, switching sides, DiB, TFs, Ouroboros...). Three of four of us, randoms, went back over early arcs with him so he could pick up the game at a better pace.

 

For the few times that I have been in farms, much though I felt guilty about breaking my own rules, I found that I could get to know people more than I could on PUGs in normal content because there was time to chat. There's plenty to be said for the value of farms in the community.

[THEDarkTyger]

7 hours ago, ShardWarrior said:

Of course it is.   I cannot help it if my viewpoint differs from yours.  Differing from your opinion does not make me an internet troll.

This isn't a matter of opinion or "viewpoints". You're wrong, objectively.

[Insomm]

10 hours ago, Clave Dark 5 said:

To the OP: that was just one jerk.  Take time off if you need to, but we hope to see you back because you're the kind of kind player we like around here.

8 hours ago, Ibarra said:

Unfortunately, people like him will always be around, and would rather only listen to themselves and no one else.

8 hours ago, Abraxus said:

If I had any advice, I'd say block that wretch, and seek out those who are representative of the majority, and a joy to play with!

Oh, I am fully aware this is far from a good representation of the CoH community (or nearly any game for that matter). I just took the day off, but I will be playing once again today. Like I mentioned earlier, I have already met plenty of people that are the polar opposite of this one player.

 

8 hours ago, ShardWarrior said:

I never suggested not letting others get to you was in any way an absolute truth for everyone.  It was simple advice that works for me.  It's also true for just about everyone I know as well.  So yes, it is true - if you let other people bother you, they will.

While I completely agree with you, and I am someone who generally does not care much and gets over things rather quickly; Getting messages like this in the first place will always have some sort of impact.

For me it just makes me feel like I rather be spending my time playing another game in which I won't be getting tells of what I should be doing. Which is what I decided to do yesterday.

But yes, for those who can follow your advice, that is sound advice.

 

9 hours ago, PaxArcana said:

I've been hearing bullshit like that all my life (while dealing with depression and social anxiety) - and it's just not true.  at all.

I am sorry to hear. I hope you have found some people that can help you through it.

I know I am just a random person on the internet, but if you ever want to type a bunch to a stranger you do not know, my inbox is open. 😊

13 hours ago, PaxArcana said:

Human nature is a cast iron bitch. 😞 

This is sadly too close to the truth. But maybe, just maybe, someone will see this and realize they have done this to someone else in the past.

 

5 hours ago, Water said:

I don't see a reportable offence there, just a player who is passionate about playing the game as it was by levelling a character through content, y'know, like games used to be. A purist so to speak. I'm sure his/her intentions were positive and they just wanted you to experience the fun in the game that they had.

Whether reportable or not, I have no intention of doing so.
I understand his point and yours far too well, as I have similar views in other games I have played in the past.
There's just a fine line between friendly suggesting something, voicing your opinion, and pushing your opinion down someone's throat.

 

As you yourself pointed, I think he/she had good intentions.
The problem here isn't the intent, it is the approach to it.

 

10 hours ago, MunkiLord said:

My schedule and playtime varies randomly, but I'll gladly let you sit in on a few farm runs if you ever see me in game @MunkiLord

Hey, I greatly appreciate the offer! My farmer is already in the 40s, so it won't be long before I ding that 50.

 

Still, I won't turn down a chance to talk to some people about games and nostalgia (lots of us seem to have that in common, I wonder why). 😃
Which server do you usually play in?
 

4 hours ago, VV said:

Honestly, I skipped most of it because it seemed like a rant about the fact that humans are humans and not all are nice. But, this statement is kind of ridiculous. Unless you have made some sort of purposefully gimped character with a bunch of useless Pool powers, there is no content at even level that any character cannot do with regular SO enhancements. They even put an option in to turn the difficulty down to -1 if you do find something too challenging.

You are right, as I said in the disclaimer it was a rant, and it was essentially about humans being humans.

The main thing I am struggling with is doing some of the TFs. I have a Kin/Ice Defender with simple crafted IOs slotted through most of his powers (several of which are still level 25).
If I get into the content solo, there are enemies (usually AVs) which I just can't get through.

When I get into it with other people, either they blow through everything or... Well, they still blow through everything, but at higher difficulties I spend most of the time licking the floor.

[Insomm]

4 hours ago, Lines said:

On the polarising opinions surrounding PLing and AE, I share the offending butthole's purist disposition. I have very strong opinions about I should be playing the game and it's a very special case where I toe the line outside of what I think is correct.

 

But those opinions are for me.

I honestly understand this standing as I have similar opinions when it comes to other games.

But like you said, those opinions are for you and me. It is absolutely fine to voice them, as long as you do it the right way.

 

8 minutes ago, THEDarkTyger said:

This isn't a matter of opinion or "viewpoints". You're wrong, objectively.

Let us not turn this into a discussion, please. 😉

To each their own, and lets leave it at that.

We can't change everyone's minds to think like ours.

[PaxArcana]

7 hours ago, ShardWarrior said:

Of course it is.   I cannot help it if my viewpoint differs from yours.  Differing from your opinion does not make me an internet troll.  All I offered was some simple advice.  Up to you if you want to try it or not or if it works for you or not. 

Except you're not offering advice.  You're subtly belittling and insulting anyone who ever gets bothered or offended.

 

I'll grant you may not even realize it.  I've heard the exact same nonsense from a lot of very well-meaning people, who earnestly believed the tripe they were spewing.  Their earnest belief, however, did not transform that tripe and nonsense into a profound truth.

 

Your suggestion is anything BUT simple.  People do not CHOOSE to be upset by things - they either are, or are not.  If you've never been truly upset, if the only upsetting things in your life so far have been minor enough for you to shrug them off ... then the advice I offer to you is: do not assume that it is because you are so awesome and self-controlled that you can choose not to be bothered by anything at all.  Because the simple truth is, that you have been inordinately lucky not to encounter something that manages to get past all your defenses like they weren't there.

 

Everyone has a "kryptonite" that will devastate them.  EVERYONE, no exceptions.  Yes, including you.  And I don't mean utterly devastating things like a death in the family, I mean, everyone has an ordinary, even a small thing, that they will simply No.  Be.  Able.  To.  Ignore.

 

If you have been fortunate enough not to encounter yours ... honestly, I envy you.  Because I trip over mine at least four or five times a year.

 

...

 

For some - relevant to this thread - it's criticism.

 

For others - also relevant to this thread - it's people who farm and PL in this game.

 

For a few, it can be a sensory issue (a genre of music, a color, etc).

 

For you ...?  Neither you nor I know, yet.  And I honestly hope that remains true until the end of your days.

[ShardWarrior]

47 minutes ago, THEDarkTyger said:

This isn't a matter of opinion or "viewpoints". You're wrong, objectively.

Of course it's a point of view.  The person who berated the OP is a jerk, plain and simple.  They're not worth a seconds thought or care.  Global ignore them and move on.  That's what these features are for.  Life is far too short to be worried about what some random fool on the internet or in a video game says or does.  If getting upset over some nameless, faceless tool in a video game not liking you is the kind of thing that concerns you or gets you upset, I don't know what to tell you.

 

Don't let these little things bother you.  It may be difficult and may take effort, but you're the one who has to do it.

[PaxArcana]

10 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

Don't let these little things bother you. 

.... arrogant dismissal of another person's authentic and genuine distress, like this?  Only serves to increase the negative impact of it all.  IOW, you are being unhelpful when you post things like that.

 

11 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

It may be difficult and may take effort, but you're the one who has to do it.

It may also be impossible.  As I said, everyone has their own kryptonite when it comes to things like this.

 

I now sincerely hope you DO run into yours - maybe you'll finally understand what we've been trying to tell you.

[Budo]

Can you (the lot of you, not any one specific person) stop the bickering?

For crying out loud, who cares? You're both wrong, you're both right, whatever. Just shut up and stop polluting the thread.

I get tired of having to skip over tons of TL;DR just because someone needs to wave their e-peen about being right. Take it to PMs and be mad at each other there. 

 

NOW  BACK TO THE TOPIC AT HAND:

 

I have a farmer and will occasionally shout out for door sitters, just to pay it forward. I've had the same done for me. People not looking for a few million payment for a run, or demanding you forward any purple drops, just doing it for a little hand-up to people starting something. Hell, I shot some "newbie" 20 mil just so they could start IO'ing their build. I don't expect anyone to do that for me, and that's okay if someone else expects it. 

 

I don't ever remember that happening on Live. I never did it for people and I don't think anyone did for me. I had friends who would PL new toons we wanted to try, but it was never just some rando broadcasting in a channel or over broadcast. Maybe because we had to pay a fee to play (time was, literally, money then) or maybe we've all gotten a little more soft since we're just happy to be back in the Ci-tay. 

 

Either way, that guy/gal/other that sent OP the tells in-game can suck a butt. I love how they start with "CoH is the friendliest place ever!" and then pepper the whole exchange with "DO IT MY WAY OR YOU SUCK!" talk. People are walking contradictions. 

[Spotlore]

There's another word for elitists, @$$hole.  And they only trick themselves.  They have no idea what they are talking about.  

[Insomm]

1 hour ago, PaxArcana said:

Everyone has a "kryptonite" that will devastate them.  EVERYONE, no exceptions.  Yes, including you.  And I don't mean utterly devastating things like a death in the family, I mean, everyone has an ordinary, even a small thing, that they will simply No.  Be.  Able.  To.  Ignore.

This point is actually far too accurate.

While this specific encounter was a small annoyance for me, I have friends who would have straight up uninstalled the game after something like this.
As someone who tries to get my group of friends into literally every single game I play, having something like this happen saddens me a little.

Unfortunately I was not able to get many of them to play a game that came out in 2004 which they never had an interest in to begin with 🤣
 

34 minutes ago, Budo said:

Can you (the lot of you, not any one specific person) stop the bickering?

I always remember that one internet argument vs special olympics meme (just google it if you don't know what I am talking about).

It is extremely offensive, but there's such an amazing degree of truth to what it actually wants to get across.
 

36 minutes ago, Budo said:

Either way, that guy/gal/other that sent OP the tells in-game can suck a butt. I love how they start with "CoH is the friendliest place ever!" and then pepper the whole exchange with "DO IT MY WAY OR YOU SUCK!" talk. People are walking contradictions. 

Yeah, sometimes it is nice to take a step back and look at what you are saying.

It is very easy to become a hypocrite if you just spout things without thinking. We all do it at times.

[jubakumbi]

Don't tell anyone how to play the game.

Don't let anyone tell you how to play the game.

Tell anyone telling others how to play the game to go jump.

 

This is what works for me.

 

For me it is sometimes hard to separate the elitist asshats and busy bodies from the game itself as well, @Insomm, and I get disgruntled at the game over what is, in reality, just me being mad at an idiot player who thinks they are above others.

 

My free time is very precious to me and anything that impacts it negatively is to be eschewed, IMO.

So, ignore and move on, IMO...don't engage, don't feed their Sadism and Angst, just /gignore and enjoy the game...not always 'easy' to do I'll grant, but it works for me.

Sadists feed on your pain, so don't feed them is my philosophy.

 

Here in CoH we have a lot of passive aggressive Sadists that want to make you feel bad for doing things they don't/won't/can't.

They are the cutest ones, IMO.

 

As you can see as well, this 'community' is chock full of people that will tell you not only how to play the game, but how to think as well, IME.

The community of CoH is just as full of terrible people as any other game community, even if they think they are above the rest.

Good luck finding your happy place, it's not always an easy path, flip off the haters and enjoy the game.

 

Look me up anytime, happy to kill pixels, @jubakumbi.

[TheOtherTed]

9 hours ago, THEDarkTyger said:

Contrary to what edgelords and internet trolls like to claim, whether or not something bothers you is NOT a choice.

Yeah, not always true.  In cases of genuine harrassment or threat, sure - in the case of an online chat exchange, not so much.

 

Granted, learning when and how to react is a skill that not everyone learns (most people don't really need to learn it), but it is possible.  I say this because my line of work can involve intense grilling and criticism, of a kind that I'm guessing would be hard to find outside a police interrogation room.  It does present a significant barrier to people new to the field, but it can be overcome - paradoxically with a bit of empathy going across the barrier in both directions.

 

==========

 

Anyway, as for the OP's case, here's how I see it:  "The other guy" (I'll call him TOG) made an assumption about powerleveling, which he didn't drop when the OP corrected him.  However, that assumption seems irrelevant to TOG's advice that the OP should use his 50 to team and run TFs to get inf.  Whether that advice is good or bad, and whether the OP's rejection of it is justified, I can't say - I've never gotten a character to 50 either here or live.

 

When TOG gave his "bon voyage" comment, the discussion was basically over - TOG gave all the advice he had to give, and it was unlikely that anything productive would come out of further chat.  But the OP persisted, and did so with a phrase that no one seeking advice should ever give:  "I got plenty of good advice."  After that, it devolved into a full-on spitting match, mostly involving the OP telling TOG not to tell him how to play. 

 

Basically, the discussion just got out of control, and both the OP and TOG contributed to that.

[Jon]

My favorite part from that exchange of tells is this bit:

Quote

"lol... if you think so... fine. I am an oldschool CoH player and we are the most friendly gaming community ever... if you think someone giving you good advice is 'driving you away' Bon Voyage"

That's gotta be the most tone deaf statement that person could have possibly made. A friendly gaming community wouldn't say 'Bon Voyage' when a player is experiencing frustration with the game. It's such an oblivious statement it belongs on /r/SelfAwarewolves.

 

As a fellow 'oldschool CoH player' I can pretty definitively say that this game's community is not the greatest because it has always been plagued by this behavior. I was honestly surprised to see how quickly people started judging other players for things like farming on Homecoming, as if they were still bitter about from Live after a 7-year hiatus from playing the game. There is a notable chunk of this community that thrives on that elitist mentality of telling other people they are enjoying the game incorrectly. (Ironically, usually those players are the ones who are objectively bad at playing City of Heroes - either through poor understanding of game mechanics or just a complete lack of skill.)

Sorry that you had this kind of interaction, OP. Just know that you're not in the wrong, and that while there are others who are like that out there, there are still plenty of people who think that player's behavior is gross.

[DR_Mechano]

17 minutes ago, Jon said:

My favorite part from that exchange of tells is this bit:

That's gotta be the most tone deaf statement that person could have possibly made. A friendly gaming community wouldn't say 'Bon Voyage' when a player is experiencing frustration with the game. It's such an oblivious statement it belongs on /r/SelfAwarewolves.

 

As a fellow 'oldschool CoH player' I can pretty definitively say that this game's community is not the greatest because it has always been plagued by this behavior. I was honestly surprised to see how quickly people started judging other players for things like farming on Homecoming, as if they were still bitter about from Live after a 7-year hiatus from playing the game. There is a notable chunk of this community that thrives on that elitist mentality of telling other people they are enjoying the game incorrectly. (Ironically, usually those players are the ones who are objectively bad at playing City of Heroes - either through poor understanding of game mechanics or just a complete lack of skill.)

Sorry that you had this kind of interaction, OP. Just know that you're not in the wrong, and that while there are others who are like that out there, there are still plenty of people who think that player's behavior is gross.

By contrast ingame I've offered farms out to people on LFG and never had anyone complain at me that I shouldn't do it, never received tells, never been harassed over it...nuthin...

 

Maybe it's because I'm on Everlasting which is where all the weirdos (like me) go because its the 'unofficial' RP server I mean there are people I disagree with like Panda Girl (or Bad Panda...something like that) but that's over build choices (IO build choices, not power choices) and the conversation usually just ends...it's never over how you play the game. I recommend to people at least do the taskforces on your first character if you're new to the game (the main ones, not the Shadowshard ones, I'm not a sadist) inbetween sessions of PLing, gets you some merits, if its TF of the week it gets you large XP boost etc.

[THEDarkTyger]

3 hours ago, ShardWarrior said:

Of course it's a point of view.  The person who berated the OP is a jerk, plain and simple.  They're not worth a seconds thought or care.  Global ignore them and move on.  That's what these features are for.

That's not "not being offended". That's dealing with the issue. Two completely different things. You're displaying a horribly inaccurate and actively harmful attitude that used the be common of "nobody can make you feel anything you don't want to feel". That's a form of gaslighting

 

4 hours ago, Insomm said:

Let us not turn this into a discussion, please. 😉

To each their own, and lets leave it at that.

We can't change everyone's minds to think like ours.

Nope. I'm going to correct factually incorrect information, especially when it's damaging misconceptions like the one he stated. "It's just my opinion" is not an accurate statement, either, nor is it a defense of repeating such falsehoods. Further, the "you choose to be offended" sentiment is used all too frequently by assholes to defend their asshole behavior. "It's not MY fault you were offended by that horribly dickish thing that I said to you! You chose to be offended!" I'm going to shut that nonsense down whenever I see it.

2 hours ago, Budo said:

NOW  BACK TO THE TOPIC AT HAND:

....the rudeness the OP got WAS the topic at hand.

58 minutes ago, TheOtherTed said:

Yeah, not always true.

Absolutely always true. Seems that, like Shard, you're conflating whether someone is offended with how they respond to being offended. Handling it without complaint isn't the same as not being offended. They're still offended, they're just not complaining about it.

Edited September 22, 2019 by THEDarkTyger

[Sanguinesun]

19 hours ago, Insomm said:

Disclaimer: (snipped)
 

 

What I see from that initial postand the desire to post the dialog that occurred between the two of you is quite frankly two wrongs dont make a right. Both of you seemingly dragged it on and on with neither letting it go really. Furthermore, coming here to cite that whilst not naming but still seemingly not letting the whole thing go seems a bit on the shaming intent side of things. Whether that is your intention or not it doesn't seem to reflect good intentions. But that's just my thoughts on the matter.

 

Neither of they nor you have invalid paths up the mountain.   Just some paths can be longer and more scenic than others.  

 

That said, the methods both of you seem to have been going on about have room for improvement.  Therein lies some irony actually.

 

I tend to solo farm but enjoy it.  I do however take on folks every once in a while as someone else said as a manner by which to pay it forward as well. Especially those folks either wishing to learn how to play the game or farm or both. 

[TheOtherTed]

2 minutes ago, THEDarkTyger said:

Absolutely always true. Seems that, like Shard, you're conflating whether someone is offended with how they respond to being offended. Handling it without complaint isn't the same as not being offended. They're still offended, they're just not complaining about it.

That's a pretty glib characterization of my stance.  Should I be offended? 🙃

[MunkiLord]

33 minutes ago, Jon said:

As a fellow 'oldschool CoH player' I can pretty definitively say that this game's community is not the greatest because it has always been plagued by this behavior. I was honestly surprised to see how quickly people started judging other players for things like farming on Homecoming, as if they were still bitter about from Live after a 7-year hiatus from playing the game. There is a notable chunk of this community that thrives on that elitist mentality of telling other people they are enjoying the game incorrectly. (Ironically, usually those players are the ones who are objectively bad at playing City of Heroes - either through poor understanding of game mechanics or just a complete lack of skill.)

By no means do I think the CoH community is bad, but I agree it's not the greatest. My opinion is that it's just like the majority of fan communities out there, no better and no worse. Simply typical. Though I will say it does take a hefty lack of self awareness and a good amount of arrogance to constantly proclaim to the world how great you are. That part of it has always amused me.

[ShardWarrior]

4 minutes ago, THEDarkTyger said:

Nope. I'm going to correct factually incorrect information, especially when it's damaging misconceptions like the one he stated. "It's just my opinion" is not an accurate statement, either, nor is it a defense of repeating such falsehoods. Further, the "you choose to be offended" sentiment is used all too frequently by assholes to defend their asshole behavior. "It's not MY fault you were offended by that horribly dickish thing that I said to you! You chose to be offended!" I'm going to shut that nonsense down whenever I see it.

I'm not trying to harm anyone at all.  I totally get it people have mental illnesses and what not.   I'm simply suggesting some folk may want to consider putting things into perspective.  If you're getting that upset about something a totally random, anonymous, faceless person on the internet typed at you. I don't know what to tell you.  IMO there are far more important real life things to be offended by.  Some anonymous dolt in a video game isn't one of them. 

 

These kind of comments remind me of people arguing over on the STO forums about how Disco ball devices forcing their avatars to dance "without consent" was the same thing as real life physical assault. 

[THEDarkTyger]

11 minutes ago, TheOtherTed said:

That's a pretty glib characterization of my stance.  Should I be offended? 🙃

Glib? How so?

Just now, ShardWarrior said:

If you're getting that upset about something a totally random, anonymous, faceless person on the internet typed at you.

It's statements like this that make it seem that you have no clue what "being offended" actually means and that you're confusing it with how people REACT to being offended. Just because someone doesn't complain doesn't mean they weren't offended.

[ShardWarrior]

Just now, THEDarkTyger said:

It's statements like this that make it seem that you have no clue what "being offended"

I do know what being offended means.  I'm simply suggesting that the chat from some random, anonymous person in a video game isn't something that offends me personally and that maybe some folk shouldn't let themselves get offended by that either.

[THEDarkTyger]

1 minute ago, ShardWarrior said:

I do know what being offended means.  I'm simply suggesting that the chat from some random, anonymous person in a video game isn't something that offends me personally and that maybe some folk shouldn't let themselves get offended by that either.

That's you. Not them. And it's not an active choice either of you have made.

[ShardWarrior]

Yes, I know it's me and not them.  I've said that repeatedly now.  I also understand that some people have mental illnesses and cannot help it.  I also understand people have a lot of passion for the game.  Last time I'll suggest it as it's clear the point is being lost - if this sort of thing bothers you, perhaps take a step back for a minute and do some self analysis.  Think about why the chat of some unknown, faceless jerk in a video game upset you and whether or not you want that kind of thing to upset you going forward.

[THEDarkTyger]

2 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

I also understand that some people have mental illnesses and cannot help it.

It has nothing to do with mental illness. It has to do with basic human psychology. Nobody chooses whether something offends them, just how they respond to it.

[Budo]

Oh cool, we're still going to keep on doing it.

 

Wonderful.