How to scare away new players.

[Insomm]

Disclaimer: This is a rant, and English is not my mother tongue. I mean no offense to any one person or group of people, so I apologize if it comes across as such. Please take everything within this post with a grain of salt and an open mind.

Alright, let me give you a little bit of a background on my CoH experience so far, then you can interpret the uploaded chat log as you wish, and after the fact I will give you my opinion on the "issue" that I wanted to bring up.

Several years back (circa 2007-8 if I were to guess) I was hoping between MMOs after a bit of a burnout in the MMO I had been playing since 2004. During that MMO hoping, I found out about CoH. Sadly, back then, it was both a buy to play and a monthly subscription (from what I recall, although premium may have been optional from what I gather nowadays). Sadly, affording a game plus membership in USD was not something I could do back then given my financial situation at the time, so I studied the game, I watched videos, but I never played it.

A few months ago, I open twitch and find Strippin is playing CoH. A little surprised I decide to check it out, and thus discover Homecoming. Since then, I have created and played probably over 50 characters, some of which have made it into the 20s and 30s, others who were just fun concepts that I stored and never took into their teens.

Roughly two weeks ago, I decided to give time to CoH once again after I took a 3 month break to focus on some IRL things. I logged in only to be reminded of the struggles I had previously (CoH is an incredibly complex game despite seeming very simple), and so I made a forum post. After some great help, I started a new character, and learnt a handful of new things, amongst which were some of my preferences towards certain style of power pools. So I created another character, and decided I would level that character up to 50. Throughout that journey, I met a lot of incredibly helpful friendly people and some who were essentially NPCs (keeping to themselves), but I can't recall anyone who I met throughout my leveling process that wasn't nice to play with.

Recently, I hit level 50 on that character, and I started checking out how much all those nice IO sets cost so that I could start putting together a build. I wanted to be able to transition from those radio missions and such into doing some of the TF content, but all the people that I found doing that content are so geared up it is blatantly obvious I am just getting my butt carried.

So, I talked a bit to a guy in my supergroup, and he mentioned he had this farmer he used to get infamy. I had read some stuff about it previously, including some of the guides in the forums, but I had not given thought to making one until then. Instead of being carried through content by people with years more experience than me, or taking handouts from people in my supergroup, I decided I would make some money for myself.

 

I started playing the AH. It took me a while to understand some of the systems, and I am still figuring out what things are actually worth infamy and what aren't. Throughout the last couple days I have made a little over 60mil (plus some pending sales) from the 10mil or so I started with. Granted I was learning, I "wasted" some infamy before I even started making profit.

 

And then it struck me... I was logging on to play the AH, spending hours searching for things, listing them back, waiting for them to sell. What I was not doing, was playing the game. I was playing the market within the game, not the game itself.

 

With that epiphany, I decided I would be better off making my own farmer, same as the guys in my supergroup. So I open up some of the guides in the forum again, give them a read, watch some videos, and give it a go. I leveled up my farmer until the mid 30s, and I realized, I was making less money than playing the AH. From what I had read, there's plenty of money to be made with farmers, so what must have been delaying me was my low level (most of the infamy I made was selling rare salvage, and like I mentioned, I made more in the AH). Upon remembering some people were asking to "door sit" their characters, I thought to myself that perhaps I could door sit the farmer and thus speed up the process of getting back to the actual game (as opposed to dropping the farmer and returning to the AH).

I went ahead and asked in chat if anyone would be willing to let a newbie door sit. For some reason, the fact that I included that I was a "newbie" in the message triggered some people. This was not the only person who replied to my group requests, but I thought it was a good example of a seemingly rather common reaction.

Please see the chatlog now.

 

Spoiler

Firstly, you may notice I blanked the person's name.
The purpose of this is to illustrate a point, so I thought unnecessary to expose a player.

We all know how the internet gets when people have differing opinions (as briefly displayed in this chatlog), and the last thing I was is for someone to bother this player because they agree/disagree with his points.

So let me get to my point.

Despite not knowing anything about me, my previous game experience, or my experience with CoH, this player felt like he just had to tell me what I should be doing in the game.

I agree, there is a lot of good content in the game. I agree that AE farming is not all that CoH (or any other game with a similar system) is about.

As someone who has played several games from their roots, and has despised several additions that were later introduced, I understand all of you who are old school players and who dislike AE farming.

None of this, however, justifies telling someone what they should be doing, or how they should be enjoying a game.

The time of day in which I can play the game is far from peak hours. In fact, peak hours seem to be somewhere around 11pm to 8am for me. While there are certain days I can stay up and play with my supergroup during those times, most of the week I am on during the time it is hard to even form DFB groups.

I gave the game a go under my own terms, and I tried a good chunk of it.  Now I want to get to content which I can't farm alone without gear, and I don't want to be carried by someone else either.

The only reason I make this post is because I have seen many people with attitudes similar to this player, including some posts in this forum. Some were more subtle in their prods about their dislike of AE farmers, but it does not change the fact that in essence they were doing essentially what this player did.

I don't expect a whole community to change (quite the opposite, I love the CoH community thus far), and I realize this isn't a CoH or even an MMO exclusive mentality, much less a majority of players. All that I hope is that if you are a person that thinks like this, or know someone who does, you will be a little more considerate.

Realize that different people play different games for different reasons.

I feel at an impasse, where I can't do the content I want to do with my character, and some people seem to judge specific methods of creating progress for a character. While I do play the game only to enjoy myself, having someone tell me I am doing it wrong just makes me want to play another game where I won't be told as such, regardless of whether I care about what they think or not.

While I have no intentions of leaving CoH yet, the conversation with this player did leave me rather frustrated.

So if you want new players to enjoy your game, don't tell them how to do it.
Sincerely, your friendly neighborhood newbie.

/rantover

[THEDarkTyger]

Every game has assholes. It's called "being on the internet". It sucks, but this isn't even remotely a CoH thing. In fact, CoH tends to have far fewer than most MMOs. Now and back in live.

[Snakebit]

Oi, I can't stand people like that. I'd have straight up put him on ignore after the 3rd tell. 

[AurianArchive]

The "Hidden Server" had a number of different methods for handling entirely new players to the game that may not be practical for Homecoming.

For starters as the "Hidden Server" was based on a Debian-Style Invite Process and as multiple accounts were verboten it was feasible to grant each new unique Global Account 2 billion inf. The Hidden Devs also reworked the merit-per-time rewards, changed the drop-rates, and routinely ran "Purple Rain" events with increased purple drop rates. The online GM's would also, at first, routinely run monster-mashes where the GM would spawn mobs or enemies with badge attachments to simply the process of pursuing accolade badges. While ambush farming was prohibited due to the processor-intensive nature of the game's ambush sub systems, the Hidden Devs did tolerate passive farming. Another change that was nerfed on the Hidden Server and thus never experienced here were unlimited Level 50 re-dings. 

The result was that even completely new players to the game, likely the children or spouses of original players, could afford to make their dream build and obtain otherwise PITA badges. 

 

Generally speaking, a new player could run up a decent fire-farmer, kit them out fairly well with their influence grant, then just go to town on Level 50 re-dings to gain the merit rewards to enhance up subsequent builds that the player would be interested in. 

 

I'd also note that the atmosphere on the "Hidden Server" was different than that of Homecoming (or other derivative servers). It was not unusual for the power-farmers to broadcast an open invitation for a power level. 

 

Here? From what I've seen in broadcast and global channel chats, it seems to be a return of the Live-server behavior. Nobody announces a power-leveling session for new players, and in some cases I got the distinct impression that if a player can't contribute to a farm they aren't welcome.  

 

I don't have any good ideas on how to re-implement some of the steps the "Hidden Server" took to make it easier for new players to get into the game. I can hope that by bringing up what the "Hidden Server" did that actually worked, and worked for literal years, might convince the Homecoming Devs to think of ways they might implement or encourage those kinds of changes. 

[Moka]

This is considered harassment and reportable.

[PaxArcana]

One asshole, does not an entire community make.

 

OTOH, as an acquaintance of mine once quipped, "all it takes is one turd floating in the punch bowl, and suddenly no-one is thirsty."  I'm sorry you ran into one of the turds.  The punch is normally quite delicious.

[Rathulfr]

In every MMO I've ever played over the past 19+ years (I started with Asheron's Call in 2000), there have always been elitist asshats and well-meaning but judgmental prigs who think that their way is the best way to play the game.  And in many cases over several games, I've often been one of those asshats or prigs.  I'm not proud of it, but I was oblivious to it for a long time, because I couldn't wrap my head around the notion that the "right" way is not the "only" or "best" way (depending on how you define those terms).  I've tried to atone for that kind of attitude in the past few years.  I'm sorry to hear you had such a disheartening conversation.  I hope that your experience gets better soon.

Edited September 21, 2019 by Rathulfr

[Insomm]

30 minutes ago, THEDarkTyger said:

In fact, CoH tends to have far fewer than most MMOs.

13 minutes ago, cejmp said:

I'd have straight up put him on ignore after the 3rd tell. 

6 minutes ago, PaxArcana said:

"all it takes is one turd floating in the punch bowl, and suddenly no-one is thirsty."

This is getting attention quicker than I expected tbh.
I thank you guys for the support, and I am fully aware that this is but one player in hundreds. I just wish people like this would consider the impact they have on others' enjoyment of the game.

Regardless, I have met many more people that are the complete opposite of this one example.
 

9 minutes ago, Moka said:

This is considered harassment and reportable.

I have no intent on reporting him. Had I really wanted to avoid talking to him, I could have muted him past the first tell.

The simple fact that this is done by not one, but several people, is just rather disheartening.
Like I said, nothing I say or do is going to change this. There will always be a few "bad apples."
I just hope that maybe this reaches a single bad apple.
 

3 minutes ago, Rathulfr said:

And in many cases over several games, I've often been one of those asshats or prigs.

I think many of us have in one occasion or another in the past.
I know I have done so myself, and I have lots of friends who are also the elitist kind of player.

It just takes a little bit of consideration to know that you can be elitist amongst your elitist friends, but you should spare others that might not share the same thought.

My experience has been rather good to be honest, and this one event has not changed what I think of the game or its community.
I just needed to rant about something far too common in games nowadays.
 

10 minutes ago, AurianArchive said:

Here? From what I've seen in broadcast and global channel chats, it seems to be a return of the Live-server behavior. Nobody announces a power-leveling session for new players, and in some cases I got the distinct impression that if a player can't contribute to a farm they aren't welcome.  

 

I am not entirely sure about the different versions of the game, but the whole AE topic specifically does seem to be a rather polarizing one with most players in Homecoming.

I have seen perhaps a couple people actually inviting others to door sit, most of the messages are people looking to door sit rather than the other way around.

That said, I talked for hours with some very nice people that allowed me to join their AE farms for a while. In fact, some of the nicest people I met were AE farmers. Most I met seem very content to give up some efficiency in their farming to tell stories about the old days of CoH and what things have changed since then.

Surely me being in their team and talking to them isn't helping them make money any faster, but I guess talking to a new player takes away some of the monotony of farming. And in turn, I get to hear great stories of nostalgia and remember my own old days in other MMOs.

[Snakebit]

27 minutes ago, AurianArchive said:

 

Here? From what I've seen in broadcast and global channel chats, it seems to be a return of the Live-server behavior. Nobody announces a power-leveling session for new players, and in some cases I got the distinct impression that if a player can't contribute to a farm they aren't welcome.  

 

I see people offer free PL's for under 10 toons on the daily, in LFG. I just came out of the game and someone has posted "free farm, 7 spots open". 

[PaxArcana]

1 hour ago, Insomm said:

I just wish people like this would consider the impact they have on others' enjoyment of the game.

Sadly: anyone who needs to hear your message, is unlikely to bother listening.

 

Conversely, anyone who would listen to you, already knows (and has taken to heart) what you are saying.

 

Human nature is a cast iron bitch. 😞 

[ShardWarrior]

2 hours ago, Insomm said:

I just wish people like this would consider the impact they have on others' enjoyment of the game.

Only if you allow it to have an impact on you.

[MunkiLord]

That person is an ass. But credit to you, you were nicer than I would have been too the person.

 

My schedule and playtime varies randomly, but I'll gladly let you sit in on a few farm runs if you ever see me in game @MunkiLord

[Clave Dark 5]

3 hours ago, PaxArcana said:

OTOH, as an acquaintance of mine once quipped, "all it takes is one turd floating in the punch bowl, and suddenly no-one is thirsty."  I'm sorry you ran into one of the turds.  The punch is normally quite delicious.

Yeah, I've had a bad experience or two before and couldn't bring myself to log in for a few days at least, just cuz.  I know that wasn't the game's fault though, just that one jerk.

 

To the OP: that was just one jerk.  Take time off if you need to, but we hope to see you back because you're the kind of kind player we like around here.

[PaxArcana]

1 hour ago, ShardWarrior said:

Only if you allow it to have an impact on you.

That, Sir, is absolute and utter crap.

 

I've been hearing bullshit like that all my life (while dealing with depression and social anxiety) - and it's just not true.  at all.

 

Not everyone is a hyper-stoic emotionless rock able to choose to be unaffected by the negative things others say or do.

[Ibarra]

Guy pretty much made himself look stupid, just another moron who gets off on being an ass to people. Unfortunately, people like him will always be around, and would rather only listen to themselves and no one else.

Just keep that head of yours up.

[ShardWarrior]

I never suggested not letting others get to you was in any way an absolute truth for everyone.  It was simple advice that works for me.  It's also true for just about everyone I know as well.  So yes, it is true - if you let other people bother you, they will.

[Abraxus]

It's hard for something like that not to have an effect, and I wish I could help you deal with in in ways that don't just sound like so many platitudes, and cliches.  So, I won't go down that road.  But, I hope you are able to put it in proper context, and don't let it define, in any way, this game or the majority of its players for you.  It is absolutely not an accurate representation.  If I had any advice, I'd say block that wretch, and seek out those who are representative of the majority, and a joy to play with! 🙂

[ShardWarrior]

Just now, Abraxus said:

I'd say block that wretch

^ Sound advice.

[PaxArcana]

35 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

if you let other people bother you, they will.

And I am saying, no, that is not true.  What doesn't bother me, might drive you absolutely apeshit.  And vice versa.

 

It's not really that you've chosen not to let anything bother you - it's that you've gotten lucky enough not to encounter the things you cannot help but be bothered by.

[Thraxis]

Some self righteous people out there get very triggered when you bring up farming in open channels,. I made an offhand comment on one of the Facebook group and this lady went nuts on me. I suggest you farm with your SG mates and friends you make along the way, generally folks that hang out at the AE are cool.  Carebears in the LFG chat have no reservations spamming DFB a million times or ship raids but you use the "F" word they loose their minds.

[THEDarkTyger]

1 hour ago, ShardWarrior said:

So yes, it is true - if you let other people bother you, they will.

Contrary to what edgelords and internet trolls like to claim, whether or not something bothers you is NOT a choice.

[ShardWarrior]

Of course it is.   I cannot help it if my viewpoint differs from yours.  Differing from your opinion does not make me an internet troll.  All I offered was some simple advice.  Up to you if you want to try it or not or if it works for you or not. 

Edited September 22, 2019 by ShardWarrior

[boggo2300]

1 hour ago, PaxArcana said:

And I am saying, no, that is not true.  What doesn't bother me, might drive you absolutely apeshit.  And vice versa.

 

It's not really that you've chosen not to let anything bother you - it's that you've gotten lucky enough not to encounter the things you cannot help but be bothered by.

Brilliantly said

[Water]

I don't see a reportable offence there, just a player who is passionate about playing the game as it was by levelling a character through content, y'know, like games used to be. A purist so to speak. I'm sure his/her intentions were positive and they just wanted you to experience the fun in the game that they had.

 

CoH has since advanced to have multiple ways to level up. The DfB can get you to lvl 20+ in no time. AE to 50 in a few hours. Get to lvl 14 and start on those Ouro badges. Grind out the incarnate trials from 50. Who cares, if you enjoy the game great, play it your way. Some players never get past the costume creator because that is their thing. Even if you don't want to level up you can disable the Earn XP option and do every piece of content at level and in order. One major change the game had though was that it emptied the maps of content players when AE was issued and that irritated much of the player base at the time.

 

Personally I enjoy PUGs to level up. I levelled up so many toons on live that I pretty much am aware of most of the intricacies of foes and missions etc though at Homecoming launch I was definitely rusty as most were. I have my favourite power sets which don't include melee. There are so many combinations that I don't think a single player has covered them all, what with patron and ancillary powers + temps that can be acquired.

 

I play CoH my way because I can. I expect any other player to expect and do the same. Isn't that the beauty of this game, the variations in not only teams but classes where choice makes an individual and specialist?

 

Peace.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 22, 2019 by Water

[VV]

10 hours ago, Insomm said:

I feel at an impasse, where I can't do the content I want to do with my character,

Honestly, I skipped most of it because it seemed like a rant about the fact that humans are humans and not all are nice. But, this statement is kind of ridiculous. Unless you have made some sort of purposefully gimped character with a bunch of useless Pool powers, there is no content at even level that any character cannot do with regular SO enhancements. They even put an option in to turn the difficulty down to -1 if you do find something too challenging.