Code of Conduct Update - September 25th 2019

[Jimmy]

Hey all,

 

I understand this is a hot topic for many of you, but I really would like to impress upon everyone the importance of remaining cordial. People on both sides of the issue have been hitting below the belt, and that's not OK.

 

From this point on we will be issuing warning points to anyone not discussing this issue like a grown-up 🙂

[ShardWarrior]

  On 9/25/2019 at 9:39 AM, EmmySky said:

To play devils advocate for a moment, it could also be that with the recent publicity, one of the many previously mentioned big guns has actually issued a c&d.

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Or they got tired of getting spammed by tickets and forum messages from overly paranoid and neurotic players worried about it.  More than likely we will never know the impetus of the change and to be honest, we don't need to know.  The rule has changed and that's that.  Let the HC folk decide on what is rule breaking or not.  That should not be open to debate in my opinion.

Edited September 25, 2019 by ShardWarrior

[Blackbird71]

  On 9/25/2019 at 9:39 AM, EmmySky said:

To play devils advocate for a moment, it could also be that with the recent publicity, one of the many previously mentioned big guns has actually issued a c&d.

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It's possible, but I find it unlikely.  HC has been upfront about enough things that I expect if this were the case, we would have been given the reason.  The timing of this announcement, along with the lack of any explanation for the sudden change in policy, leads me to believe that negotiations are at the root of it.  Yes, it's speculation on my part, but I'd call it more of an educated guess.

[Sidious]

this debate is all well and good. However, it is all just hot air as NONE of us are on the Homecoming team.

so since this has raised some very important questions, I (for one) would like to hear them addressed by the actual people in charge of things.

 

We can talk all we want and speculate all we want. Good hard answers is what this needs. So in the interest of transparency and community good will, could the Homecoming team chime in on this thread? 

[molten_dragon]

Honestly, I expected something like this was coming for a long time.  I think I only have one character that might be affected by this, although it's pretty obscure so I'm not sure anyone will actually catch it and report it.  If it does, I'll pick another name, no big deal.

[Sylar]

  On 9/25/2019 at 3:23 AM, Ironblade said:

Actually, it sounds like they set up and maintain and pay for the server, so they make the rules.

Using the word "totalitarianism" is way over the top.

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no you are wrong, they take in donations to maintain the server so.

[Harpsong]

Mundy had a good run!

Can't say I'm going to shed any tears over this though. I just wonder if this also extends to Architect or not. If it does, there are some... rather popular arcs that are going to have to be completely changed.

[ShardWarrior]

  On 9/25/2019 at 11:22 AM, Sidious said:

So in the interest of transparency and community good will, could the Homecoming team chime in on this thread? 

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They already have.  The rule has changed and cosplays are no longer allowed.

[Sidious]

  On 9/25/2019 at 11:37 AM, Harpsong said:

Mundy had a good run!

Can't say I'm going to shed any tears over this though. I just wonder if this also extends to Architect or not. If it does, there are some... rather popular arcs that are going to have to be completely changed.

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yes the Comic Con arcs should be effected.

[Sidious]

  On 9/25/2019 at 11:39 AM, ShardWarrior said:

They already have.  The rule has changed and cosplays are no longer allowed.

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yes but that doesn't answer the questions that this debate has brought up.

[Sylar]

  On 9/25/2019 at 3:26 AM, Lavos2019 said:

i agree, calling totalitarian is a bit too far, though i do see the broader point he was trying to make, if you  dont wanrt discussion then simply make the forum post unable to allow it, its not as if the GMs dont have complete control over that

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exactly and in this thread you will see cancel culture at its finest, some disagree, the majority agree, and the majority that agree will follow HC team to the ends of the earth, that means hsut down dialogue with anyone who attempts to make a fair point about the game, it happens all the time, that's why i said it feels like a totalitarian rule because if someone disagrees with a change then BAM everyone jumps on that one guy.

 

Literally the first comment was a bait for those who disagree, if that isn't enough proof then i dont know what is.

[ShardWarrior]

  On 9/25/2019 at 11:40 AM, Sidious said:

yes but that doesn't answer the questions that this debate has brought up.

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There really is nothing to debate really.  The HC folk will fill us in what they feel we need to know without compromising their efforts.  The rules have changed and that is their decision.  Games change, sometimes we like it and sometimes we don't.  Best to just accept it and move along.

[Jimmy]

  On 9/25/2019 at 11:40 AM, Sidious said:

yes but that doesn't answer the questions that this debate has brought up.

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If there's any specific things that are unclear please do let me know!

  On 9/25/2019 at 11:37 AM, Harpsong said:

I just wonder if this also extends to Architect or not. If it does, there are some... rather popular arcs that are going to have to be completely changed.

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Yes, it does. The specific language here:

  Quote

Use of copyrighted characters and content without permission is not permitted when creating characters or Architect content. This includes characters and stories from intellectual property belonging to any IP that is not City of Heroes.

 

Additionally, creating copies of signature characters from the City of Heroes lore is not permitted. As with the retail version of the game, these are only to be used by staff. Use of these characters in Architect Entertainment and character backstories is permitted.

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[Sidious]

  On 9/25/2019 at 12:01 PM, Jimmy said:

If there's any specific things that are unclear please do let me know!

 

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ok...

 

1) how will you be handling public domain mythological characters?

2) how will you be handling Public Domain comic book characters?

3) at what point do you consider a homage costume to cross the border into violation?

4) at what point do you consider names to cross into violation? Direct Names, slightly altered, none of the above?

 

So far these are the most questions people have regarding this, but I've only read 7 pages.

 

[Jimmy]

1 & 2 aren't covered by this rule as anything in the public domain, by nature, is not infringing copyright. For example: The name Thor is not covered by this rule, but any variant of his name or title combined with a costume that looks like Marvel's Thor? That is covered, and therefore not allowed.

 

3 & 4 are entirely too subjective to give a solid answer on. As with the live version of the game we will be handling them on a case-by-case basis.

[Sidious]

 

  On 9/25/2019 at 12:13 PM, Jimmy said:

1 & 2 aren't covered by this rule as anything in the public domain, by nature, is not infringing copyright. For example: The name Thor is not covered by this rule, but any variant of his name or title combined with a costume that looks like Marvel's Thor? That is covered, and therefore not allowed.

 

3 & 4 are entirely too subjective to give a solid answer on. As with the live version of the game we will be handling them on a case-by-case basis.

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Excellent. Thank you.

 

For anyone in need of a hero name:

Public Domain Characters

Edited September 25, 2019 by Sidious

[GM Capocollo]

  On 9/25/2019 at 3:32 AM, Haijinx said:

So your contention is that they will disallow Capt America,  Iron Man, Hulk, etc.  But allow someone actually named Thor, carrying a hammer as long as said Thor harkens back to the myth? 

 

I guess we will see.  I don't think they will.  

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It's a matter of a holistic interpretation.  The overall impact of the character is what matters, rather than any particular single thing you can point at.  Sometimes the name is such a fundamental part of the character that it's going to be weighted fairly heavily, but in many other cases it's not sufficient to cause any issues with us.

 

Taking this example, on its own, "Thor" and variations of it are fine.  It's mythology in the public domain, the same way that Zeus or Samson or Izanagi-no-Mikoto or Rama or any other mythical figure is.

 

If your character is named some variation of "Thor" and he also has a little square hammer, long blond hair, a red cape, a sleeveless blue and silver breastplate and tight leather pants, then that's too close to the Marvel character "Thor".  This particular depiction of Thor is the intellectual property that Marvel has control over.

 

Conversely, a character named "Captain America" will almost certainly be asked to be renamed.  This name is already trademarked for use in video games; there's no wiggle room for that.

[Seigmoraig]

So will my Henri Hill costume be deleted ? White Shirt, Blue Jeans, comb-back hair and square glasses, please tell me it ain't so !

Edited September 25, 2019 by Seigmoraig

[Sidious]

  On 9/25/2019 at 12:23 PM, GM Capocollo said:

It's a matter of a holistic interpretation.  The overall impact of the character is what matters, rather than any particular single thing you can point at.  Sometimes the name is such a fundamental part of the character that it's going to be weighted fairly heavily, but in many other cases it's not sufficient to cause any issues with us.

 

Taking this example, on its own, "Thor" and variations of it are fine.  It's mythology in the public domain, the same way that Zeus or Samson or Izanagi-no-Mikoto or Rama or any other mythical figure is.

 

If your character is named some variation of "Thor" and he also has a little square hammer, long blond hair, a red cape, a sleeveless blue and silver breastplate and tight leather pants, then that's too close to the Marvel character "Thor".  This particular depiction of Thor is the intellectual property that Marvel has control over.

 

Conversely, a character named "Captain America" will almost certainly be asked to be renamed.  This name is already trademarked for use in video games; there's no wiggle room for that.

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Side note: is there a GM notes that can be made on characters that one gm has deemed safe but another may find in violation? Just to cut down on issues.

[Murcielago]

Does this mean I will have to rename my Thug/Poison MM named Trump?

[Jimmy]

  On 9/25/2019 at 12:27 PM, Sidious said:

Side note: is there a GM notes that can be made on characters that one gm has deemed safe but another may find in violation? Just to cut down on issues.

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Right now no, but we are building something specifically for this. In the meantime we keep records in a private (and searchable) Discord server.

[Sidious]

  On 9/25/2019 at 12:31 PM, Jimmy said:

Right now no, but we are building something specifically for this. In the meantime we keep records in a private (and searchable) Discord server.

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Cool. Nice to see people on the same page.

Less confusion is never a bad thing.

[Sidious]

  On 9/25/2019 at 12:30 PM, Murcielago said:

Does this mean I will have to rename my Thug/Poison MM named Trump?

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Stick a playing card on him. LOL

[Murcielago]

Also can I have a warning point please?

[ZacKing]

  On 9/25/2019 at 12:30 PM, Murcielago said:

Does this mean I will have to rename my Thug/Poison MM named Trump?

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What about offensive characters designed to look like and named stuff like "Bloody Tampon", "Afro Booty", "Engorged Member", "Ex Crackwhore" and such?  Those things are kosher?   Very surprised this kind of stuff is allowed on these servers.