Everything else sucks compared to AE farming

[jubakumbi]

1 minute ago, DSorrow said:

I don't think by any means that microtransactions aren't a valid way of collecting revenue, I just dislike gambling because the randomness only decreases the value for me. To give an arbitrary example, if it takes on average 5 rolls to get something, then for me getting it by roll 4 is a much smaller positive than getting it by roll 6 is negative, so on average I'll be pretty pissed off after gambling. It doesn't matter quite as much if we're using play money, but I still prefer being able to directly buy what I want because I find unlucky RNG streaks extremely frustrating.

Totally understand.

To me, the randomness of games and loot is what makes the fun in the first place.

That does not mean I don't get ticked when I miss a roll or like you point out, I get a bad run of luck, but again, if there is a market, I can just buy the thing.

 

The AE, IMO, is, in fact, one of the places I would add even more 'gamble'.

Since the idea is that it is entertainment for our heroes, like a Dave and Busters if you will, and gives 'tickets', IMO, you should then be able to get all sorts of cupie dolls that are less good than the loot outside, simply because it is 'synthetic' if you will.

 

So, turn the AE into the Gamble Box generator - you earn tickets that can in turn be used to by levels/types of Gamble Boxes - but have the rewards such that they never really compete with an ATO/HO, etc., since the idea of the AE is entertainment, not really life threatening.

Just a thought.

[Crysis]

1 hour ago, Myrmidon said:

All they have to do is make AE give no rewards outside of Dev’s Choice missions and your problem is solved.

Or nerf Burn.  Again.  Or nerf aggro.  Again.  Or nerf AE rewards.  Again.  Or just disable AE altogether.  Or make everything free from marketplace and disable XP/Influence altogether and just make everyone an instant 50 at character creation.

 

Or maybe, just maybe, tell everyone to quit worrying about their version of fun versus someone else’s and just use the game as a sandbox open to all, and spend what little precious development resources are available on new content/powers instead.  
 

GHKS!

[Crysis]

2 hours ago, jubakumbi said:

I love loot boxes.

Love, love them.

IMO, it's the perfect vehicle to fund a game.

If you don't have cash, play and grind because you probably have the time.

If you have the cash, buy what you like, spend the amount of money on the game you prefer.

Everyone wins.

 

Now, what people don't really like about this is mainly three things, IME.

First, it seems no one likes there to be anything in the loot boxes that cannot be acquired in the game through play. I generally agree. If the game has a market where those things can be traded like STO, then maybe. That is the implementation, not the loot box funding system. Like Battlefront screwed the pooch.

Second, IME, boils down to people that simply hate the idea someone can use real money to get something in the game and that they cannot. Plain old envy.

Third, 'the children'. Everyone loses thier minds over kids spending money on stuff, games, asking Elexa, whatever. Comics were evil, no it's loot boxes. 

 

When I could not afford things, I did not tear down people who could, nor did I demand the car I wanted be listed at a lower price.

Now that I can afford things, I spend my cash on games so game makers can make more games.

My wife and I never had kids, never wanted them, not really interested in restricting my options and freedoms any more than I do already in life over other peoples kids, personal respocibility, etc. 

 

For a lot of people, loot boxes make games more accessible because they allow the overall game to be free, while allowing cash to flow in when people want to spend it.

CoH was one of, if not the first MMO, to impement them, loved 'em then, love 'em now.

Loot boxes don’t bother me.  What bothers me is being forced to watch an Arby’s ad to continue playing the game.  That breaks the immersion for me entirely.

[quixoteprog]

5 minutes ago, Crysis said:

Loot boxes don’t bother me.  What bothers me is being forced to watch an Arby’s ad to continue playing the game.  That breaks the immersion for me entirely.

I'm with you on THAT. 100%. What I DON'T think would break the immersion, and could be used to fund the game, would be some product placement in the form of ingame billboards. They currently have a few scattered around each zone that are "joke" kind of adds. To me they are not all that funny and if I were to be a roll player of any kind would kind of break immersion for me. At least they would be much more of a break in verisimilitude than an Arby's bilboard would be.

 

If it would fund them hiring real content creators who could come up with new, innovative and challenging content I would be fine with them creating ingame Papa John's "stores" where you can go order a pizza that gets delivered to your house while you are playing the game. As a bonus, if you have a coupon, you get a free SO enhancement.  8-]

[Myrmidon]

1 hour ago, Crysis said:

Or nerf Burn.  Again.  Or nerf aggro.  Again.  Or nerf AE rewards.  Again.  Or just disable AE altogether.  Or make everything free from marketplace and disable XP/Influence altogether and just make everyone an instant 50 at character creation.

 

Or maybe, just maybe, tell everyone to quit worrying about their version of fun versus someone else’s and just use the game as a sandbox open to all, and spend what little precious development resources are available on new content/powers instead.  
 

GHKS!

 

I was just answering the question with the most viable solution. I don’t give one single Damn whether they would implement it or not, however, the reading here sure would be entertaining if they did.🤣

[jubakumbi]

7 minutes ago, Myrmidon said:

 

I was just answering the question with the most viable solution. I don’t give one single Damn whether they would implement it or not, however, the reading here sure would be entertaining if they did.🤣

I am with you.

I don't care one whit for the minutae so many people want to quibble over in games, just seems like a lot of wasted time and energy to me.

But, having persoanlly known intense rule-lawyers, they get thier dopamine from being 'right' and proving others 'wrong' and al of that to them revolves around minutae.

I just like killin' pixels, the infighting over the little changes is hilarious to me, makes the workday go by much faster.

[Crysis]

9 minutes ago, Myrmidon said:

 

I was just answering the question with the most viable solution. I don’t give one single Damn whether they would implement it or not, however, the reading here sure would be entertaining if they did.🤣

Well you may get your wish on the entertainment because reading Reddit posts On my phone right now it sounds like Burn is about to be nerfed as well as AE XP.

[Crysis]

32 minutes ago, quixoteprog said:

I'm with you on THAT. 100%. What I DON'T think would break the immersion, and could be used to fund the game, would be some product placement in the form of ingame billboards. They currently have a few scattered around each zone that are "joke" kind of adds. To me they are not all that funny and if I were to be a roll player of any kind would kind of break immersion for me. At least they would be much more of a break in verisimilitude than an Arby's bilboard would be.

 

If it would fund them hiring real content creators who could come up with new, innovative and challenging content I would be fine with them creating ingame Papa John's "stores" where you can go order a pizza that gets delivered to your house while you are playing the game. As a bonus, if you have a coupon, you get a free SO enhancement.  8-]

Billboards or using sides of buildings for ads wouldn’t bother me at all.  ThAts what it looks like in the real world and would fit into the game cityscape just fine.  I seem to recall Cryptic played with that concept in early years.

[jubakumbi]

Just now, Crysis said:

Well you may get your wish on the entertainment because reading Reddit posts On my phone right now it sounds like Burn is about to be nerfed as well as AE XP.

Just because it's on test and few people are toying with it, does not mean it's about to happen.

Those same posts talk about other ideas as well.

But, by all means, let's just decide the sky is falling, shall we? 😉

 

[MunkiLord]

4 minutes ago, Crysis said:

Well you may get your wish on the entertainment because reading Reddit posts On my phone right now it sounds like Burn is about to be nerfed as well as AE XP.

Where is this information found? I'm intrigued. 

[Crysis]

1 minute ago, MunkiLord said:

Where is this information found? I'm intrigued. 

I’m hesitant to post the link because it’s actually about more drama considering the secret server etc and I believe being here on these forums is proof enough that drama is in the past.

 

But allegedly the SCORE server still exists as a kind of Beta server for Justin (smart idea actually if true, I always wondered where the SCORE playerbase ended up), with final release candidates going to Homecoming, and there’s a post indicating both Burn and AE ambush missions are being changed on SCORE leading to eventual changes here on HC as well.

If you search COH subreddit for Burn it’s the top post returned.  Posted 16 hours ago.  Ignore the drama but there’s some interesting info in there.

 

[Yomo Kimyata]

On 9/25/2019 at 5:34 AM, Weylin said:

 

After seeing the sheer efficiency of AE farming first hand, it's really hard to go back.

Well, I guess it depends on what you are AE farming for.  If you are seeking rewards in terms of inf, or drops, or even merits, yeah, I can see that.

 

I can even see AE farming for the sake of farming.  It’s mindlessly entertaining!  I made a thread about it.

 

But at some point we no longer need rewards.  We have outfitted all our alts with purples and winter os.  There is nothing left to seek rewards for except for posting really big numbers.

 

At that point, maybe you’ve won the game, if there is such a thing.

[Myrmidon]

2 hours ago, Crysis said:

Well you may get your wish on the entertainment because reading Reddit posts On my phone right now it sounds like Burn is about to be nerfed as well as AE XP.

 

 

🤣

 

Would you happen to have a link to this beautiful post?

[Crysis]

1 hour ago, Myrmidon said:

 

 

🤣

 

Would you happen to have a link to this beautiful post?

See my comment three above.  I don’t really want to post a link as it’s not kind to our current benefactors.  But I gave instructions on how/where to find.  

[Ananke]

On 9/25/2019 at 9:10 AM, swordchucks said:

I've never heard a reasonable argument for keeping it as-is outside of "anyone can do it" and "I like it". 

CoH is an alt heavy game and veteran players don't want to have to re level their old live characters when they already suffered the tedium of doing so once before. There's a reason why level cap (or near levelcap) boosts are so popular in themepark MMOs, even the ones that aren't alt friendly at all. If people had as much time to dedicate to the grind as they used to, they'd be playing some real oldschool shit on either the Vanilla COH servers or some brutal MMO that hasn't gotten the memo about QOL changes.

[Haijinx]

5 hours ago, Crysis said:

I’m hesitant to post the link because it’s actually about more drama considering the secret server etc and I believe being here on these forums is proof enough that drama is in the past.

 

But allegedly the SCORE server still exists as a kind of Beta server for Justin (smart idea actually if true, I always wondered where the SCORE playerbase ended up), with final release candidates going to Homecoming, and there’s a post indicating both Burn and AE ambush missions are being changed on SCORE leading to eventual changes here on HC as well.

If you search COH subreddit for Burn it’s the top post returned.  Posted 16 hours ago.  Ignore the drama but there’s some interesting info in there.

 

Secret alpha server .. sounds shady lol

 

Ill be really surprised if burn is nerfed.

 

It already got nerfed way back in the day

 

[The_Cheeseman]

I am not a fan of loot boxes, as I feel it encourages unhealthy consumer behavior by intentionally exploiting operant conditioning to coerce people into spending more money than they should. It's a great way to make money, but I feel like using flaws in human psychology to wring cash out of people is unethical.

Now, I have seen randomized rewards used in interesting ways, assuming the game is built around them. Examples would be things like Gacha games, where the characters you get to play with are distributed randomly, thereby forcing each player to try unique strategies based on the team build available to them. You can spend a bunch of cash trying to get a certain unit you love, but assuming the game is properly balanced, you won't necessarily feel compelled to do so. Using randomized rewards as a core mechanic can be interesting, using it as a glorified slot machine leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

[jubakumbi]

15 minutes ago, The_Cheeseman said:

I am not a fan of loot boxes, as I feel it encourages unhealthy consumer behavior by intentionally exploiting operant conditioning to coerce people into spending more money than they should. It's a great way to make money, but I feel like using flaws in human psychology to wring cash out of people is unethical.

Now, I have seen randomized rewards used in interesting ways, assuming the game is built around them. Examples would be things like Gacha games, where the characters you get to play with are distributed randomly, thereby forcing each player to try unique strategies based on the team build available to them. You can spend a bunch of cash trying to get a certain unit you love, but assuming the game is properly balanced, you won't necessarily feel compelled to do so. Using randomized rewards as a core mechanic can be interesting, using it as a glorified slot machine leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

I hear you, but IMO it's fine line bewtween 'regulated' and 'nanny-state'.

I am well-aware different cultures look at this differently, etc., these things are literally Evil to some people.

However, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth when I have to be 'restricted' arbitrarily because other humans cannot control themsleves.

IMO, that is the contentious bit...and there is no black and white answer that always pleases everyone...it's a very area, IME...

[The_Cheeseman]

I feel I need to clarify that I am in no way condoning government regulation of loot boxes. My point is that game developers should stop using them, because it's inhumane, exploitative design.

[jubakumbi]

Just now, The_Cheeseman said:

I feel I need to clarify that I am in no way condoning government regulation of loot boxes. My point is that game developers should stop using them, because it's inhumane, exploitative design.

Well, then we definately disagree at a fundamental level on the subject!

[The_Cheeseman]

Well, that's why the world has so many of us, aye? To each their own, and may the best philosophy win! 😉

[DR_Mechano]

19 minutes ago, jubakumbi said:

I hear you, but IMO it's fine line bewtween 'regulated' and 'nanny-state'.

I am well-aware different cultures look at this differently, etc., these things are literally Evil to some people.

However, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth when I have to be 'restricted' arbitrarily because other humans cannot control themsleves.

IMO, that is the contentious bit...and there is no black and white answer that always pleases everyone...it's a very area, IME...

You can blame Game devs for government stepping in to regulate them, they kept pushing and getting more and more greedy with their practices, more shameless with them. If companies like EA and Activision knew when enough was enough and held the reigns back we wouldn't have this problem. But know we all know that just making money isn't enough for these companies they've got to have ALL the money...and this is inevitably where it was going to lead.

[Razor Cure]

On 9/26/2019 at 3:10 AM, swordchucks said:

I personally find the activity itself intensely boring, but if you find the activity itself to be fun, more power to you. It's just that it shouldn't reward markedly more influence, salvage, etc., than you can get otherwise.  I am in no way saying that there shouldn't be an option for that kind of content or that it shouldn't give rewards - it's just that it needs to be in line with other content.

This. This sums it up totally and perfectly. Anyone, anyone can do TFs, anyone can do any content. But the imbalance is real. Would farmers still 'enjoy' farming if it took a time frame more in line with every other non AE task in game?

[jubakumbi]

1 minute ago, DR_Mechano said:

You can blame Game devs for government stepping in to regulate them, they kept pushing and getting more and more greedy with their practices, more shameless with them. If companies like EA and Activision knew when enough was enough and held the reigns back we wouldn't have this problem. But know we all know that just making money isn't enough for these companies they've got to have ALL the money...and this is inevitably where it was going to lead.

I am not a big blame based person, but that is what it's all about, Blame.

IMO, is still human fear and the inability for many people to control themsleves, both the consumers and the developers.

I also know how 'polarizing' this topic is and that as I mentioned, some people for various reasons look at all of it as Evil.

As soon as the hate for the 'big companies' comes into play, it's just another blame cycle.

To me, it's all blaming outside forces on the fact some people cannot control themsleves.

 

I agree with @The_Cheesemanin that the issues are based in human nature.

I simply don't agree that it should all just be shutdown, because some people are 'bad' or that some people cannot control themsleves.

At the same time, I am well aware there are intractable opinions that differ from mine, no worries.

 

In the end, it is a blame issue, because IMO, many if not most humans want to blame most everything bad on someone else.

Thier own inability to control themsleves or thier finances must be blamed on an outside force.

I just am not a fan of the nanny-state, I have no desire to be told what to do with my free time and money.

[The_Cheeseman]

20 minutes ago, jubakumbi said:

I am not a big blame based person, but that is what it's all about, Blame.

IMO, is still human fear and the inability for many people to control themsleves, both the consumers and the developers.

I also know how 'polarizing' this topic is and that as I mentioned, some people for various reasons look at all of it as Evil.

As soon as the hate for the 'big companies' comes into play, it's just another blame cycle.

To me, it's all blaming outside forces on the fact some people cannot control themsleves.

 

I agree with @The_Cheesemanin that the issues are based in human nature.

I simply don't agree that it should all just be shutdown, because some people are 'bad' or that some people cannot control themsleves.

At the same time, I am well aware there are intractable opinions that differ from mine, no worries.

 

In the end, it is a blame issue, because IMO, many if not most humans want to blame most everything bad on someone else.

Thier own inability to control themsleves or thier finances must be blamed on an outside force.

I just am not a fan of the nanny-state, I have no desire to be told what to do with my free time and money.

I can't help but notice that you seem to be implying that people who succumb to loot box overspending "can't control themselves" as if they have some specific character flaw that they are responsible for. I would urge you to be a bit more empathetic, and to realize that all of us are victims of our biases and flawed reasoning. It's part of being human, and it happens to all of us. But that's why we have social taboos and similar behavioral sanctions--to make sure that people or companies that are caught attempting to exploit us suffer consequences.

Sure, you may not have any problem with loot boxes, you may even enjoy them, but that doesn't mean they are harmless to society as a whole. There are a ton of examples of methods of psychological coercion that have been made illegal for consumer protection--just consider Ponzi schemes, or subprime mortgage securities, or similar shady business practices. You could blame the victims of such manipulation for being weak-willed or ignorant, at least until somebody uses such methods to take advantage of you. None of us are immune to the flaws in our psychology, and I think it is both right and proper to expect negative consequences for those who seek to exploit those flaws.

That being said, whether it is the role of the government to mediate such disputes is a whole other discussion, and not one I care to get into here.