Anyone remember the Mob-flee logic?

[Shred Monkey]

Does anyone remember, or have access to the logic that determines when a mob flees (instead of standing and fighting)? 

 

I vaguely remember there being a change to the logic that got detailed out to us in one of the patch notes. 

 

I find chasing runners annoying and it happens constantly when I am solo, so I am seeking deeper knowledge on this mechanic.

 

 

[RikOz]

From what I've seen, they'll flee if you drain their Endurance so much that they can't attack, or you slow their Recharge so much that all their attacks are on cooldown at the same time.

 

On the other hand, I've seen mobs, the same level as me, haul ass immediately after I punch their buddies, and I don't see any logic in that (other than "doesn't want to get punched" logic).

Edited October 16, 2019 by RikOz

[EmmySky]

My WS has been soloing her arc and they keep running from her in haste!  I'm like, shes a 4 foot tall carrie, dudes, what's the deal?  I can't figure out if one of her powers or shields has a fear component or if it is just her 'epic' difficulty level.....you made an epic archetype now chase baddies!  Working as intended?

[srmalloy]

1 hour ago, RikOz said:

On the other hand, I've seen mobs, the same level as me, haul ass immediately after I punch their buddies, and I don't see any logic in that (other than "doesn't want to get punched" logic).

One thing that I think is part of the 'who will run' determination is that the person doing the active crime -- the mob pulling on the handbag, or directly threatening another mob -- is more likely to be the one that bugs out first, and if you attack them first, it stops them from running. It doesn't always work that way, but it's more common than one of the others in the spawn.

[SaintD]

7 hours ago, srmalloy said:

One thing that I think is part of the 'who will run' determination is that the person doing the active crime -- the mob pulling on the handbag, or directly threatening another mob -- is more likely to be the one that bugs out first, and if you attack them first, it stops them from running. It doesn't always work that way, but it's more common than one of the others in the spawn.

This changes depending on the zone and gang. In Atlas Park the Hellion muggers aren't more prone to running away with the bag, but you have to watch out for the groups of 3+ where one of them is the drug dealer - he'll try to run away immediately. The Skulls tend to have the same behaviour in King's Row.

You get used to this, then you end up in Steel Canyon, where the damned Outcast muggers immediately try to run away with the bag if they're a minion. If the mugger is a lieutenant, they often stay and fight.

 

In these cases, the mechanics of their fleeing is separate from normal combat mechanics, the latter of which is probably more what the OP is going for.

Edited October 17, 2019 by SaintD

[Marine X]

22 hours ago, RikOz said:

I don't see any logic in that (other than "doesn't want to get punched" logic).

Nothing wrong with that Logic, if you like having teeth of course, lol

[Oneirohero]

A slightly unhelpful but in-universe explanation is no criminal with some intelligence is going to stick around while a super beats on their friends and subsquently them and then getting teleported to the PPD station/Zig. Running is the smartest thing they can do.

 

As for what causes it, I have no solid answers. Does seem like one of them has a random chance to start running regardless of what group you're fighting. Sometimes one will start running mid-fight only to come back around the corner when you've finished their buddies off. So as much as they do run, they probably get second-thoughts and go to finish the job. It's more annoying when the runner does it near the end of the encounter though...

[RikOz]

23 hours ago, srmalloy said:

One thing that I think is part of the 'who will run' determination is that the person doing the active crime -- the mob pulling on the handbag, or directly threatening another mob -- is more likely to be the one that bugs out first, and if you attack them first, it stops them from running. It doesn't always work that way, but it's more common than one of the others in the spawn.

 

1 hour ago, Oneirohero said:

A slightly unhelpful but in-universe explanation is no criminal with some intelligence is going to stick around while a super beats on their friends and subsquently them and then getting teleported to the PPD station/Zig. Running is the smartest thing they can do.

 

As for what causes it, I have no solid answers. Does seem like one of them has a random chance to start running regardless of what group you're fighting. Sometimes one will start running mid-fight only to come back around the corner when you've finished their buddies off. So as much as they do run, they probably get second-thoughts and go to finish the job. It's more annoying when the runner does it near the end of the encounter though...

Yeah, the weirdest one I've seen was a spawn of three Warriors in Talos - I punched the first guy, and one of his buddies took off immediately, and took forever to come back. I got tired of waiting, moved on and cleared two more spawns before that runner finally came back.

 

The logic I don't get is the teleporting behavior of those Tsoo Sorcerers and Sky Raider Porters. Just because I don't understand how it makes any kind of good combat tactics to teleport away at the beginning of the fight, and then return to take me on alone after I've kicked their friends' butts. It's actually kind of funny when I have them targeted - I can see that they've teleported three rooms away, and then see them immediately running back to me.

[Oubliette_Red]

I have started calling the calling warewolves 'chicken dogs'.

 

Especially during ToT'ing. I'm beginning to think that their Vampire masters keep them locked up all day and once the door opens the warewolves are like "I gotta go peeeeeee" and the run off around the corner of the building, probably looking for the nearest fire hydrant.

[Crysis]

Not much help here but you’d have to go to the old archived forums from Live days and review all the red letter name posts on changes made to aggro caps, Burn changes and flee logic etc. The fight vs flight logic changed multiple times over the course of the game.

 

[TorduVide]

Runners are undoubtedly my least favorite part of combat in this game.  Like I can understand random mooks running away in the open world when I goomba stomp their lieutenant-rank squad boss out of nowhere or something but when I'm in a mission map facing off against an AV and they just decide "FtS, I'm out!  Don't mind me, Imma just grab my stuff and leave!  Excuse me please!" and start running all over the map to get away from me if I chase them or they just kinda run off for a few minutes and, if I stay where I initially engaged them they'll just eventually return only to run off again about two seconds after they get in combat with me as if thinking "Ah, man!  They've gotta be gone by now!"

 

And the whole while I'm just sat here thinking to myself "And.. you're an ARCH Villain how?"

 

What I've gathered from the mobs that have and haven't run from me over the years of playing live and now this is that it seems like there's multiple "personality profiles" for mobs and very few of them get the "stand and fight" profile while most, including some AVs and giant-death-robots get the "Save myself!" profile where they'll just run instantly or when only they and one other allied mob is left alive.  Now that's just speculation, mind you.  I'm not saying that's a thing at all, just that it seems like it.  Like some mooks and lieutenants seem brave but so far nearly every boss I've run into tries to run away when it's just them or just them and one other and most of the EBs/AVs I've run into do the same thing.

 

Now I'd think maybe it's the aoes that I use and the patches I lay down but, while they do avoid such things, they often continue running away, well out of range and beyond the point of getting out of an aoe and just, instead, wanting to bug out completely.

 

Those are just my findings, anyway.  If anyone figures out exactly what makes them decide to fight or flee I'd definitely be interested in knowing so I've turned on notifications for this thread.

[SaintD]

One of the problems many of you are probably encountering, especially the people complaining about AV's, is that if a mob has been attacking you for some time and can't hit you, they'll often try to run away. Since lots of players stack defence, and especially the kind of players fighting AV's solo, that's probably a big reason for a lot of you seeing runners in longer battles. They haven't been able to hit you, so they shove off.

That's just one of the random things I remember from people talking about this a decade ago. People with sets like /SR weren't particularly happy about it.

[quixoteprog]

12 hours ago, RikOz said:

 

The logic I don't get is the teleporting behavior of those Tsoo Sorcerers and Sky Raider Porters. Just because I don't understand how it makes any kind of good combat tactics to teleport away at the beginning of the fight, and then return to take me on alone after I've kicked their friends' butts. It's actually kind of funny when I have them targeted - I can see that they've teleported three rooms away, and then see them immediately running back to me.

I think the Tsoo logic is that the Sorcerer is a healer. He bugs out until one of his ally mobs is sufficiently hurt to merit him teleporting back in and healing him. If you run up and hit someone with an alpha strike attack that takes them below half the Sorcerer will often immediately heal him, THEN teleport away.

 

It is quite annoying, for me. So much so that I will target them even over the kinetics guys who slow and weaken me. Which, consequently, goes a long way to explaining the behavior.

[Shred Monkey]

2 hours ago, SaintD said:

One of the problems many of you are probably encountering, especially the people complaining about AV's, is that if a mob has been attacking you for some time and can't hit you, they'll often try to run away. Since lots of players stack defence, and especially the kind of players fighting AV's solo, that's probably a big reason for a lot of you seeing runners in longer battles. They haven't been able to hit you, so they shove off.

That's just one of the random things I remember from people talking about this a decade ago. People with sets like /SR weren't particularly happy about it.

Yeah.. what sticks in my head from all those years ago is reading the patch notes and thinking ... "Man.... I've made the perfect toon for making things flee."

[Coyotedancer]

'Just gonna post a screenshot... Because that's what I do.

 

]

 

There's something to that "I can't hit you? Run away! Run away!"-business, but sometimes it seems to kick in a lot faster than it ought to.

Rusty here? That's him NOPE-ing out of facing Xhelethe about four seconds into the fight. Right after the nuke he tends to open with missed. <_<  

 

Xhel is a Katana/WP Scrap... So, had Rise running, but no Fear effects, no damage auras or damage patches.

She smacked him with her sword ONCE.

He fired his nuke and missed.... And then the big, metal baby turned and ran like she'd set his googly eyeballs on fire.  >_>

 

Edited October 18, 2019 by Coyotedancer