Blaster Tier 9 powers

[dragonhawk777]

10 hours ago, boggo2300 said:

I have all of those, my Main in fact in both live and here is an Ar/Dev blaster

So then apparently the idea isnt as awful as you say it is.  Or is it you just like posting meaningless troll replies, so in the future I know to ignore any replies by you.  good to know this info at least.

[nihilii]

I love my PBAoE nukes. PBAoE nukes have many advantages:

 

1) Control. No need to target a specific mob and hope they stay equidistant with the mobs I want to hit. I jump at a precise location, and hit everything I want to hit.

2) Armageddon chance for fire damage + Fury of the Gladiator chance for -RES. Enough said.

3) YOU LOOK LIKE YOU'RE EXPLODING

Variety is good. IMHO, play the ranged options if you want a TAoE nuke.

[BrandX]

5 hours ago, Outrider_01 said:

The time recharge and endurance crash was to make the player aware of and use it as situational power, not a dumbed down instant and safe to use power.

 

There is nothing wrong with PBoE powers, its like complaining melee don't have enough ranged outside a few wonky ones like spines which was to make them different; the melee aoe ground punchers might be considered OP now since they are "melee" but they have almost no penalty except large endurance costs that can be negated with reduction unlike blasters; but not gonna complain.  A lot of melee have shitty really narrow cones that could be expanded a bit but not making all weapons like broadsword a clone of mace.

 

 

 

 

What do you mean can't be negated with reduction?  The nukes take End Reduction just like every other power and they don't have the end crashes anymore.

[MunkiLord]

No thanks, I like the nukes the way they are. Love running into the middle of a mob and blowing them up.

[dragonhawk777]

Quote

So basically most of do not know how to play blasters?  Those asking for range nukes.  (Not insulting, just my own dumb opinion.)

Dont lie because you are purposely being insulting.  Please list any quote where I advocated for the change because I couldnt play as a blaster or use a melee based nuke.  Or list any quote where those who said they could get behind making all the nukes ranged was because they couldnt play with a melee nuke.  In fact the second part of my idea existed just so people who like to play as a blapper could do so.

 

Quote

Its called a nuke for a reason, it is not called WTFBBQPWN buttom. Nukes are last resort options, just like in real world (terrible comparison but its an apt one)  Back in the day the 32 power  were situational powers your only used when the shit hits the fan, excluding AR/ but it was a slow damage dot with a lot of ticks and a highly resisted damage type. And when no target cap at the time,  you could lag out from the flying numbers.

 

Thought electric was a very short range nuke, like 30 ft to target? 

 

-Fire/Energy/Electric where like 10 damage right out of the box at explosion, AR was 2/2/2/2/2 with low chance for an extra tick.  Blizzard like .5 x20 ticks.  This is just an easy to understand comparison.

 

-Blizzard was the same as AR but dot ticks were smaller in larger numer of ticks and had slow added to do damage because rains cause NPC to run out; try Fire's Rain of Fire as they get it early and see how effective it is.  Blizzard  had an endurance crash like the others, AR didn't so see next paragraph. Blizzard was ranged and I don't know why but it was probably to make it different  since the other ones where already 3 instant explosion types and to theme it with ice.

 

-AR had a massively long animation time for the resisted damage type which means you can die in the process and while the other were near instant. Animation time = endurance crash, either used in melee range is a huge risk while Ice couldn't fire anything with the crash.  Your in melee range any way when you g get attention.

 

-They all had endurance crashes but AR having resisted damage, shooting freak bosses or Malta robots were not very effective.

 

The time recharge and endurance crash was to make the player aware of and use it as situational power, not a dumbed down instant and safe to use power.

Thank you for that pointless history lesson.  I think its safe to say most if not all the people on these forums know the history of blaster nukes.

 

Quote

All I can say is, learn to play better as a player and not ask to dumb it down so its a riskless attack after the melee teammates go into combat, NPC will die too fast any way to group AoE. 

Maybe learn to actually observe another player in action before you tell him to learn to play better.  The game is already dumbed down and normal content is a breeze with just IOs and not even including Incarnate powers.  Unless you are playing as a blapper running in after your teammates have engaged is pretty pointless as the groups AoEs have the pack dead or nearly dead by the time you run into melee.  Ranged nukes already exist so apparently in your mind if you play a certain power set you can have "riskless" gameplay but others are denied that.  

 

Quote

Utilize what you got.  There all kinds of tricks you can pull off, use your imagination. Get creative.  Secondary sets with all that control powers let you use your primary more effective then a single 1 click power in the primary.  Granted Device's last 2 are kinda useless compared to Hot Feet,  that floating gun breaks the use of cloak (used to be stationary, useless after 1 room without teleport friend) and time bomb has way too long of a set up in a group.

 

1 click high damage powers on very long timersare a crutch if you need to use it often and at range.  Squishy have a weakness for the damage, other wise you can play a sentinal with range and status protection in melee range where you can get range and survivability.

Again you assume nobody who agrees with me knows how to play.  Of course you are wrong and your statements just show your own ignorance.  Making all the nukes ranged mearly evens out dps for those who want to play a ranged blaster and doesnt force you to take certain power sets just to have a ranged nuke.  You actually lose dps if you play as a ranged blaster and try to use a pbaoe nuke in your aoe rotation.  Between running, detonating the nuke, and then backing out you loose dps than if you just stayed at range and fired off your aoe and cone abilities.  Plus as Ive already said in a group situation most mobs are dead in the first wave of aoes after the tank gathers them up.  The only thing left standing is the boss or AV, which are then dealt with with your single target attacks.

 

Also Devices has long been the solo players power set as most of its abilities are designed more around a lone players dealing with an instance.  You get a bunch of buffs and cc with your chief damaging abilities suited towards taking your time.  I could easily one shot every instance boss and most EBs with a stack of Trip Mines and a pull around a corner but most groups wont wait for you to drop a bunch of Trip Mines when they can just charge in and aoe the pack down.  I would love for the current team to change Time Bomb and Gun Drone into something more useful and group friendly.  Ideally I would make Trip Mines the tier 9, and add in something like Sticky Grenade and maybe something like a more powerful Seeker Drone that did more damage but less of a debuff.

[dragonhawk777]

3 minutes ago, MunkiLord said:

No thanks, I like the nukes the way they are. Love running into the middle of a mob and blowing them up.

Even with all of them ranged nukes you still could.  There is no minimum range so there is nothing to stop you from doing what you said.

[FDR's Think Tank]

This is a removal of nuance and I am against it. There isn't a strong enough reason to undo powersets differences listed.

 

What is more constructive is imagining new powersets that both fufill your need to smooth out balanced features and don't alter the base game.

 

For Instance: You could easily come up with a Missle Launcher set that does ranged fire damage and probably wouldn't have a self-nuke and launch from a range.

 

In the end, it's about the same amount of work, but you aren't wrecking the existing game in worship of the God of Symmetrical Satisfaction.

[MunkiLord]

22 minutes ago, dragonhawk777 said:

Even with all of them ranged nukes you still could.  There is no minimum range so there is nothing to stop you from doing what you said.

And I do with my Ice Blaster. But I like Inferno and Nova as they are, don't want them changed. 

[Haijinx]

1 hour ago, MunkiLord said:

No thanks, I like the nukes the way they are. Love running into the middle of a mob and blowing them up.

Besides, you have to be there to melee any survivors anyway. 

[Haijinx]

I think it should be called the WTFBBQPWN power

Edited November 19, 2019 by Haijinx

[boggo2300]

13 hours ago, dragonhawk777 said:

So then apparently the idea isnt as awful as you say it is.  Or is it you just like posting meaningless troll replies, so in the future I know to ignore any replies by you.  good to know this info at least.

Adding PBAOE powers to Blaster secondaries, Changing the PBAOE attacks on Ice and Electric and adding Blaster PBAOE attacks to melee toons have absolutely nothing to do with other powersets of blaster, your attack is irrational and your proposal is terrible, welcome to ignore.

[boggo2300]

8 hours ago, FDR's Think Tank said:

This is a removal of nuance and I am against it. There isn't a strong enough reason to undo powersets differences listed.

 

What is more constructive is imagining new powersets that both fufill your need to smooth out balanced features and don't alter the base game.

 

For Instance: You could easily come up with a Missle Launcher set that does ranged fire damage and probably wouldn't have a self-nuke and launch from a range.

 

In the end, it's about the same amount of work, but you aren't wrecking the existing game in worship of the God of Symmetrical Satisfaction.

well said

[dragonhawk777]

9 hours ago, FDR's Think Tank said:

This is a removal of nuance and I am against it. There isn't a strong enough reason to undo powersets differences listed.

 

What is more constructive is imagining new powersets that both fufill your need to smooth out balanced features and don't alter the base game.

 

For Instance: You could easily come up with a Missle Launcher set that does ranged fire damage and probably wouldn't have a self-nuke and launch from a range.

 

In the end, it's about the same amount of work, but you aren't wrecking the existing game in worship of the God of Symmetrical Satisfaction.

I am all about expanding player options which was something for the most part that CoH did very well.  Making all the nukes ranged barely affects those who want to use them in melee because there is no minimum range so you can still charge into the middle of a mob pack and fire off your nuke, but allowing you to use the same nuke at range would benefit those that want to play a blaster at range are forced to skip it or make use of tactics that actually lower your dps in a group.  Also making a new ranged set does nothing to fix the issue as we already have 6 of the 13 power sets that already have a ranged nuke, as it isnt about wanting just the fire set to have a ranged nuke but all sets.  Oh and I can guarantee you that its alot more work to develop a whole new power set than to just copy a portion of the code used on Blizzard or Thunderous Blast over to abilities like Nova or Inferno.

 

One thing I find interesting that when this was brought up years ago it was much better received by the community and had considerably more people saying they loved the idea or thought it at least had merit.  Judging by the replies I have seen here the community has certainly changed over the years and gotten much more selfish, since the majority opposing it oppose it based on they dont even want their gameplay tweaked in the slightest and screw everyone else no matter how much of a benefit it would bring them.

[nihilii]

2 hours ago, dragonhawk777 said:

Judging by the replies I have seen here the community has certainly changed over the years and gotten much more selfish, since the majority opposing it oppose it based on they dont even want their gameplay tweaked in the slightest and screw everyone else no matter how much of a benefit it would bring them.

[GM Sijin]

In regards to fire, specifically, I'm rather against giving it yet another ranged AOE. That it was a PBAOE always seemed to be a balancing factor for compensation of the rest of the set. In the modern age of no crashes and IOs and incarnates that's less of a thing. I don't really have a lot of investment either way, personally, but people do tend to dislike their iconic powers changing on them and I get that. There is a loss of fine control when you have to target a mob to center it vs it being centered on yourself. That you need a target at all can be a drawback to some people as well.

[Saiyajinzoningen]

truthfully i have a fire/fire blaster that can easily do 4x8 and the t9 goes great with all the other pbaoes that are in the second powerset, its an excellent synergy. I have no complaints

[FDR's Think Tank]

Making a new power set would involve mostly copy and pasting existing code anyway. And missles exist in game, you just need to reuse existing animations.

 

You seem to have forgotten that on top of recoding, playtesting is involved. I already disagree with the notion there is less work in trying to unify all the blaster powers in function/purpose... But even if we set that aside, playtesting a single set is much easier than playtesting multiple sets and comparing the overall game balance to the previous set up. It's really not as simple as you are strawmanning it to be, as unbalanced as the game is, each set has different features, different advantages that need to be considered. You insist the one won't make a difference, but you then ignore the fact that you don't really seem to have anyone on board with this plan.

 

 

However, you do have one big advantage you wouldn't have had in the days of live. You are free to run your own server, make those changes yourself, and playtest it to your own hearts delight. If you can sell enough people on it, your server could get very busy: but Homecoming has a goal of trying to keep people nostalgic for CoHs happy. That's not always gonna line up with an OCD goal of everything lining up perfectly the same.

 

That aside: I gave you a solution, and a potential missle set could do fire and/or rad damage. This is much more likely to be done, especially if you crunch numbers, make custom icons, and detail each power. You can find many examples in the forums. If you are more into ideas than execution, you must change hearts and minds until you inspire people who can execute it. This Community is super positive, but you will find that optimism makes it difficult to remove legacy features people accept and much easier to add features that correct what you dislike. And for the record, that's how the mechanics of most new powersets came about back on live. Compromises and refusal to change the core mechanics of an existing system.

[MunkiLord]

11 hours ago, dragonhawk777 said:

 

 

One thing I find interesting that when this was brought up years ago it was much better received by the community and had considerably more people saying they loved the idea or thought it at least had merit.  Judging by the replies I have seen here the community has certainly changed over the years and gotten much more selfish, since the majority opposing it oppose it based on they dont even want their gameplay tweaked in the slightest and screw everyone else no matter how much of a benefit it would bring them.

I find this extremely disingenuous since you are making this suggestion because it is what you want. So pointing fingers about people being selfish is just going to be some circular and pointless argument. Sure we can do it, but it seems like a giant waste of time.

 

[Outrider_01]

On 11/19/2019 at 8:20 AM, BrandX said:

 

What do you mean can't be negated with reduction?  The nukes take End Reduction just like every other power and they don't have the end crashes anymore.

This is before it was apparently changed, way back almost all 32 in primaries and 38 in secondarys (depended on different AT, tanks primary had a crash at 32 on their defense click but defender nukes had a crash at 38 for their nukes examples).  A common penalty was  endurance crash, in the case of something like Assault rifle it was a long ass animation with the dot making you a target (can die in the process faster then a PBoA  Inferno which had a shorter animation and heavy front loaded damage.)

22 hours ago, dragonhawk777 said:

Dont lie because you are purposely being insulting.  Please list any quote where I advocated for the change because I couldnt play as a blaster or use a melee based nuke.  Or list any quote where those who said they could get behind making all the nukes ranged was because they couldnt play with a melee nuke.  In fact the second part of my idea existed just so people who like to play as a blapper could do so.

 

Thank you for that pointless history lesson.  I think its safe to say most if not all the people on these forums know the history of blaster nukes.

 

Maybe learn to actually observe another player in action before you tell him to learn to play better.  The game is already dumbed down and normal content is a breeze with just IOs and not even including Incarnate powers.  Unless you are playing as a blapper running in after your teammates have engaged is pretty pointless as the groups AoEs have the pack dead or nearly dead by the time you run into melee.  Ranged nukes already exist so apparently in your mind if you play a certain power set you can have "riskless" gameplay but others are denied that.  

 

Again you assume nobody who agrees with me knows how to play.  Of course you are wrong and your statements just show your own ignorance.  Making all the nukes ranged mearly evens out dps for those who want to play a ranged blaster and doesnt force you to take certain power sets just to have a ranged nuke.  You actually lose dps if you play as a ranged blaster and try to use a pbaoe nuke in your aoe rotation.  Between running, detonating the nuke, and then backing out you loose dps than if you just stayed at range and fired off your aoe and cone abilities.  Plus as Ive already said in a group situation most mobs are dead in the first wave of aoes after the tank gathers them up.  The only thing left standing is the boss or AV, which are then dealt with with your single target attacks.

First things first:  I wasn't lying, it was my opinion which I am entitle to.  We all are entitled to saying what we want, doesn't mean the other person is gonna like it.  You want range, I assume you don't know what a blaster is, and you are kinda vague how you go about T9 range....just an idea you have.

 

Blasters are not range just because you have a preference for it and their is some stupid description  in a category or short paragraph you are taking as verbatim.  Blasters are not just range, yes a lot of their powers are range but they are a generalist in one thing.....Damage, they are the Damage AT not the premier range AT.  Range is just primary means, melee is the second, and control powers let you set it up.  Blasters don't specialize like other AT in control powers, tanking, short range melee (scrapper or stalker), or buffs...they generalize in the fact "they are murder machines" using any means necessary and specialize in that fact (the murder part).  Blasters are just a damage AT and they do it anyway they can.  That is what you should at least acknowledge at using any means to do damage, not just because you preferred ideal of range.

 

Second, have you looked closely at all the powers available to you?  All the sets, all the secondaries.  There are a lot of melee, hold, stuns, soft control, ect in the secondaries.  Are you gonna completely ignored them just to play range?  Thats a lot of unused level picks then, a lot of enhancement spaces your not gonna use if you prefer range.  As I said in the first paragrah, Blasters are generalist in a lot of areas and specialize in damage to kill things, you have a lot of optional ways of doing that damage.  Your gonna have to show me or at least give me a description of your play style, other wise  Sentinel is what you sound like when saying range : Primary Range damage, nice mez protection to back it up.

 

When I said I prefer you to get better a player, I meant using your head to adapt more then clicking damage powers and I didn't say it clearly, so I made a mistake.  Its why I keep bringing up those extra powers in blasters and you should adapt on the fly, where as Sentinals are just range with defense/status protection, NO MELEE.

 

Oh, you are right about loosing DPS ect ect.  But its harder to calculate in COH compared to other games.  Its more about offensive power, not actually calculating how much damage you can do per scone...damage just happens, minions die, Lts moan in pain, bosses are limping and shortly there after is just the big baddy left.  You hardly need to be efficiency and as in a group, things just die.

 

History isn't wrong, your pointless assumption is just saying I am.  We can agree to disagree, but the history of nukes show you don't know one thing....it was balanced around an "oh shit button" at the time.  It was not "lets run and use it every other spawn".   It was changed, I will agree with that.  But again, there was a penalty when it was used....now its just a "oh my gawd that was awesome numbers flying, LETS DO IT AGAIN!".   Can you at least see it from my point of view?  

 

Third, you are wrong.  Your statement is "range presence" when as the T9 is, your ass is in melee when that T9 goes off and it doesn't change the fact, it just makes me think you might prefer playing a Sentinel.  How you can complain about literally one PBoA power in most sets, I don't know as those nukes are still damn powerful.  Its ignorance on your way when you only see it as your way just because you want range because its your preference style.  

 

Did you bother to looks at every primary, because there is exactly one powerset that that is ranged just like single attacks which is AR/Full Auto = line of sight to fire that cone, everything else is either PBoA / Location / or AoE.  Now I will admit I am not up to current information, when I see that  Water Blaster/Geyser I can't tell if its line of sight similar to Fire Ball or dropped like Blizzard or Rain of Arrowswhich don't need line of sight; it looks like a mis-colored defender Tar Patch; but I am pretty sure looking at it now its a LoS click along with some others.  But they are still damn powerful going by those numbers, but read below.

 

Quote

Also Devices has long been the solo players power set as most of its abilities are designed more around a lone players dealing with an instance.  You get a bunch of buffs and cc with your chief damaging abilities suited towards taking your time.  I could easily one shot every instance boss and most EBs with a stack of Trip Mines and a pull around a corner but most groups wont wait for you to drop a bunch of Trip Mines when they can just charge in and aoe the pack down.  I would love for the current team to change Time Bomb and Gun Drone into something more useful and group friendly.  Ideally I would make Trip Mines the tier 9, and add in something like Sticky Grenade and maybe something like a more powerful Seeker Drone that did more damage but less of a debuff.

My friend, you don't know as much as you think and don't take this personally. Let me explain:

 

I am a f***ing old fart when it comes to CoH, played since shortly after release and I don't know when you started.  Blaster was my first character after finding my preferred style while dinking around in a few other AT.  AR/Dev, loved the combo and still is my favorite character....but I just can't slog through another round of it because it lost its flavor.  Let me reminisce and lament about it, spoilet cause its gonna be long.

 

Spoiler

Assault/

-Lethal damage mostly, but NPC where resistant suddenly one day but it wasn't huge.  That Devouring Earth LT with a minor weakness to lethal I could pop with a snipe and slug, next thing I know its snipe/slug/burst. Yeah, extra shot but its like WTF.

-Full Auto, I could practically solo a map with the damage it put out but this was in a group.  Lethal resist, BAH! I can WTFPWN most of them with a puller and lag out at the same time. 

-And....then FA became the red headed b*tch child of the 32s, its the only one that is a limited cone at 10 vs every other at 16...my only one was M30 grenade.  Sound fair?  Pfft, faster recharge with longest animation and the average damage dot using a highly resisted damage type.

-Compare FA vs the other 32s right now, slide it to 50.  Inferno is pretty high front loaded damage at 99% chance for about 19 damage ticks...18 times.  Meh, thats 8 seconds for that extra damage but FA is 17 ticks of lethal with a 10% chance of 63 damage, that is winning the lottery chances.

-Ignite was a joke, only worked in doors with barely anyone taking it.

-Flame thrower was good, but with FA and standing out in the opening with long dots....combo that gets you killed if you get attention.

-Flame thrower vs Fire Breath, 8 second dot vs less then 3 seconds for about the same damage. FT is slightly faster shorter animation, Fire Breath has 4 second less recharge. Not sure now, but a lot of people didn't like FB but I think it was 50/50 since the singles where a great combo and FBall was just deadly.

-No build up, just 2 wonky control powers in Bean Bag and that useless Ignite with fear, annoying small burn patch entirely negating itself as they run out of when Fire/ can just Breath or Ball things to death

 

/Dev

devices is probably the best set solo next to that Tactical arrow, but Device should of been closer to what Tactical Arrow is from the beginning.

-Web Grenade is not the same as Toxic Web Grenade, it was not a minor damage power.

-Caltrops, probably most used power in the set after toggles and the occasional use of Tripmine

-Cloaking Device was just a crappy +stealth, stacked with Smoke, and minor defense.  Now its great with those buff, when I had it was only good for Toe bombing.

-Targeting Drone, was just a +to hit buff and finally a +perception when Cryptic started fleshing out the blinding effect.  Was nothing really, one day they decided to give it a bonus to snipe, felt like a middle finger.

-Tactical arrow, damn good looking buffs with build up, a passive recharge/run speed and other cool stuff.  Device was pretty limited at the time vs now.

-Hmm, ESD arrow that can shut down LT and minions, pretty good recharge as well, very group friendly even though short vs a long set up explosive that was worse then Tripmine, good damage but poor application unless you stealth so it was incredibly situational sub nuke.

-Gun Drone with stealth cloak, counter productive unless you group cause you can't toebomb but can pull to a corner.  It was originally a crap stationary pet that could tank, but you need teleport friend to use it.

-MMO means people groups?  Sure you can solo, did it for my story arcs but the point of the game is to group.  Devices became redundant except for the toggles and caltrops/Web Grenade.

 

Defiance?  Hitpoint based first, you would die fast before really using it and you where trying to stay alive.  It was called Grim Reaper Salad Tossing, you had to make friends with Death so he didn't come calling.

 

Devices is better now, but AR/ hasn't really changed much.  I forgot who ever took over and kinda nerfed blasters, but we hated them until after Defiance 2.0 with a few other buffs.

 

Also, your idea does have merit.  I am not against change, but you thought it out poorly which is what I was groaning and moaning about.  How do you balance it across ALL power sets some that are already ranged which you could play anyway; the red headed b*tch child that is Full Auto is still left in the dust (my opinion), the wonder 10 hit cone and lethal damage, long dot, longest animation, no secondary effect?  I still think any other 16 target front loaded nuke or rain is better with their awesome debuffs, not just because range is better.  Love AR/Dev, but its like that ex-girlfriend you miss but can't be around at the same time, and I don't want AR/ it to left behind (Upgraded M30 16 target would be nice) but nothing I can do about it

 

Inferno; PBoA to what?  Fireball type? Drop range nuke, like Blizzard from behind cover, which I would call risk less?  Cone, which sounds the best as it would be easier to balance instead of : Shifting that PBoE to straight AoE + X Feet at Y location = tactical nuke.  What about 2 powers at 32, range and PBoA like a power pool.

 

And to finish with a summary:

You are a blaster.

You smirk at the enemy with a fearsome look, while your other teammates AT are congratulating themselves on the sidelines.

You cackle with laughter as you will take down as many as you can, offense is your defense

You know the taste of every floor surface, have a reserved room in the hospital, and you just go back to the fight.

You go into battle wearing tighty whites and string bikinis, gasoline can on your back and a claymore mine on your chest.

You don't need the full powers of other Archetypes but they make you a murder machine in a group.

You use what ever you have at your disposal, melee or extreme range.

You don't always need those the nukes, when you got nothing left you improvise even if its a sock with a door knob in it.

You are a bad ass, your career is damage and butt kicking with your fist or your gun/blasts using EVERYTHING to achieve it.

 

Sappy I know, just saying....go all out with everything you got.  Blasters require you to think smart and adapt to stay alive, other classes have it easier; defense/buffs/control but blaster... blasters do it all poorly and excel at damage doing it.

 

Good day, good blasting, and have fun.  Sorry for the wall of text, I am out.

 

edit: God bad spelling and grammar, just not gonna fix it. so damn tired

Edited November 20, 2019 by Outrider_01

[Haijinx]

Blasters don't have a companion AT,

 

And I know I'm /jranger on new ATs in general.

 

But maybe a Ranger AT isn't such a bad idea.   

 

Or something, anything, to end the 15 year debate on Blasters in melee. 

 

[dragonhawk777]

1 hour ago, MunkiLord said:

I find this extremely disingenuous since you are making this suggestion because it is what you want. So pointing fingers about people being selfish is just going to be some circular and pointless argument. Sure we can do it, but it seems like a giant waste of time.

 

The topic was brought up because like I said back when the game was live it was discussed and was generally well received and I wasnt even the one who brought it way back when.  I agreed with it but I didnt make the thread, so this wasnt brought up based on just what I want, it was brought up because back when the game was live it was a topic that seemed to have more interest in and with COH under new management, so to speak, it seemed a good idea to bring it up again.  I rarely if ever bring up a topic or fix if it is something that only affects me, you can check my posts over on the Star Citizen forums to show that as I advocate generally on behalf of a larger group and not myself.  But when the gameplay difference for those not wanting the change is just I have to click on a mob vs I have to go into melee range when I have been staying in the back the whole fight for those wanting the change, yes I consider that selfish.

 

If we could do a poll for the game and the majority wanted to keep melee nukes then fine they could stay.  My blasters are already built and I have already adapted the ones I want to be range only to the limits of the power sets I chose for them.

[dragonhawk777]

Quote

Making a new power set would involve mostly copy and pasting existing code anyway. And missles exist in game, you just need to reuse existing animations.

 

You seem to have forgotten that on top of recoding, playtesting is involved. I already disagree with the notion there is less work in trying to unify all the blaster powers in function/purpose... But even if we set that aside, playtesting a single set is much easier than playtesting multiple sets and comparing the overall game balance to the previous set up. It's really not as simple as you are strawmanning it to be, as unbalanced as the game is, each set has different features, different advantages that need to be considered. You insist the one won't make a difference, but you then ignore the fact that you don't really seem to have anyone on board with this plan.

So would turning the 7 pbaoe abilities into ranged ones.  Character animations can all be ripped from existing animations like AR, Ice, Water, or Electric.

 

Recording and playtesting would be involved with both a new power set and changing the Tier 9s to range.  You can disagree but you would be wrong.  To create a new set you are going to have to test 8 powers (leaving out AIM), with some being single target and some cone and some AoE, so all the powers will need to be tested.  You are also going to have test whatever secondary effect you give your new power set, and how that will also scale with the Defender, Sentinel and Corruptor AT, not to mention balancing the damage numbers with those ATs.  In the meantime the secondary effects for all those ATs is already known for the existing PBAoE as well as their damage numbers.  Bossk Hogg already showed there is no range tax if you make the pbaoe ranged attacks.  The two scales are damage and recharge, so if it does more damage then it has a longer recharge but if it does less damage then it has a shorter recharge.  So you are looking at testing 7 abilities vs 8 with a new power set and those 8 get multiplied by 4 when you take into account the other ATs and testing them.

 

I also had people who could get behind the idea of ranged nukes, so you are wrong there.  I have already amended my post to make the part of adding melee pbaoe just something to look at as a possibility.  I have a number of times in various replies that the main point was to make blaster pbaoes into ranged ones, and that is not more work than developing a new power set.

 

Quote

That aside: I gave you a solution, and a potential missle set could do fire and/or rad damage. This is much more likely to be done, especially if you crunch numbers, make custom icons, and detail each power. You can find many examples in the forums. If you are more into ideas than execution, you must change hearts and minds until you inspire people who can execute it. This Community is super positive, but you will find that optimism makes it difficult to remove legacy features people accept and much easier to add features that correct what you dislike. And for the record, that's how the mechanics of most new powersets came about back on live. Compromises and refusal to change the core mechanics of an existing system.

No you didnt as making a new power set does not change the fact that fire, energy, psychic, sonic,... all would still have pbaoe Tier 9s.  I could save the devs even more work and just play water, then they dont even need to make a new power set.

[MunkiLord]

33 minutes ago, dragonhawk777 said:

The topic was brought up because like I said back when the game was live it was discussed and was generally well received and I wasnt even the one who brought it way back when.  I agreed with it but I didnt make the thread, so this wasnt brought up based on just what I want, it was brought up because back when the game was live it was a topic that seemed to have more interest in and with COH under new management, so to speak, it seemed a good idea to bring it up again.  I rarely if ever bring up a topic or fix if it is something that only affects me, you can check my posts over on the Star Citizen forums to show that as I advocate generally on behalf of a larger group and not myself.  But when the gameplay difference for those not wanting the change is just I have to click on a mob vs I have to go into melee range when I have been staying in the back the whole fight for those wanting the change, yes I consider that selfish.

 

If we could do a poll for the game and the majority wanted to keep melee nukes then fine they could stay.  My blasters are already built and I have already adapted the ones I want to be range only to the limits of the power sets I chose for them.

Absolutely it's selfish, I'm not arguing that. I'm just saying your suggestion is based on what you want, so it's no less selfish. And there's nothing wrong with that. 

[FDR's Think Tank]

I am glad to see you ultimately agree with me. New sets are a better solution than fundamentally changing what has been established simply because you value range but refuse to admit that it plays a factor in how sets are balanced or designed to function.

 

You forget, the sets, as they exist, are already playtested... And you want to throw it all out the window because T9 needs to be the same basic power?

 

Again, you are free to muck around with the mechanics of the game as you want on your own server. And really, rather than coming hot and taking everything personally, that would be the ethical and principled action on your part. Prove it.

 

The game needs more people experimenting with changes and ideas. I still believe anything useful you discover would be built into a new set, rather than make a sweeping change to decades established lore and structure... And I know you would thank everyone for doing it that way in the end. However, there is nothing wrong with being stubborn if it also means you are productive.

 

I dare you to code your own server with the heretical changes you desire. Complete your evil training and join the dark side!

[dragonhawk777]

11 minutes ago, FDR's Think Tank said:

I am glad to see you ultimately agree with me. New sets are a better solution than fundamentally changing what has been established simply because you value range but refuse to admit that it plays a factor in how sets are balanced or designed to function.

 

You forget, the sets, as they exist, are already playtested... And you want to throw it all out the window because T9 needs to be the same basic power?

 

Again, you are free to muck around with the mechanics of the game as you want on your own server. And really, rather than coming hot and taking everything personally, that would be the ethical and principled action on your part. Prove it.

 

The game needs more people experimenting with changes and ideas. I still believe anything useful you discover would be built into a new set, rather than make a sweeping change to decades established lore and structure... And I know you would thank everyone for doing it that way in the end. However, there is nothing wrong with being stubborn if it also means you are productive.

 

I dare you to code your own server with the heretical changes you desire. Complete your evil training and join the dark side!

I dont agree with you and I disproved your whole paragraph about a new set being less work than changing one power in an existing set.  Also there is no lore for power sets and no decades of existing structure.  The game was not even active for 10 yrs and I dont count the years it sat buried in a vault as time with existing structure.