Blaster Tier 9 powers

[dragonhawk777]

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First things first:  I wasn't lying, it was my opinion which I am entitle to.  We all are entitled to saying what we want, doesn't mean the other person is gonna like it.  You want range, I assume you don't know what a blaster is, and you are kinda vague how you go about T9 range....just an idea you have.

Yes you were.  You said and I quote, "Not insulting, just my own dumb opinion."  You took the time to write out everything so cant say it was an accidental misspeak.  So everything you said was done on purpose, including the insulting remarks that me and anyone who likes the idea of a ranged nuke doesnt know how to play a blaster.  So yes you did mean to be insulting and saying you didnt mean to be is a lie.

 

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Blasters are not range just because you have a preference for it and their is some stupid description  in a category or short paragraph you are taking as verbatim.  Blasters are not just range, yes a lot of their powers are range but they are a generalist in one thing.....Damage, they are the Damage AT not the premier range AT.  Range is just primary means, melee is the second, and control powers let you set it up.  Blasters don't specialize like other AT in control powers, tanking, short range melee (scrapper or stalker), or buffs...they generalize in the fact "they are murder machines" using any means necessary and specialize in that fact (the murder part).  Blasters are just a damage AT and they do it anyway they can.  That is what you should at least acknowledge at using any means to do damage, not just because you preferred ideal of range.

So against please show me where I said Blasters had to be a ranged AT.  I said the primaries are all ranged attacks, which they are, and that some people like to play their blaster as a ranged AT.  So again you prefer to make up things rather than deal with what people have actually said.

 

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Second, have you looked closely at all the powers available to you?  All the sets, all the secondaries.  There are a lot of melee, hold, stuns, soft control, ect in the secondaries.  Are you gonna completely ignored them just to play range?  Thats a lot of unused level picks then, a lot of enhancement spaces your not gonna use if you prefer range.  As I said in the first paragrah, Blasters are generalist in a lot of areas and specialize in damage to kill things, you have a lot of optional ways of doing that damage.  Your gonna have to show me or at least give me a description of your play style, other wise  Sentinel is what you sound like when saying range : Primary Range damage, nice mez protection to back it up.

Yes I currently have four blasters  Fire/Rad (play all ranged), Energy/Energy (play mixed), Archery/Dev (play ranged), Water/Rad (blapper)  so I have a very good grasp of all the blaster abilities, both primary and secondary.  So to take my main (Fire/Rad) I play it all ranged and very survivable, so I have pool powers that allow me to maximize that ranged damage, notably the new sniper mechanics (leadership pool), I have enough ranged def and can self heal so I can range tank most bosses and EB and even a few AVs for a short time.  i have two holds so I can kep bosses locked down indefinitely.  I have gone solo and dealt with entire corridors in ITF without issue.  So you might want to inquire first into what someone knows before you decide they dont know the AT they are playing.

 

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History isn't wrong, your pointless assumption is just saying I am.  We can agree to disagree, but the history of nukes show you don't know one thing....it was balanced around an "oh shit button" at the time.  It was not "lets run and use it every other spawn".   It was changed, I will agree with that.  But again, there was a penalty when it was used....now its just a "oh my gawd that was awesome numbers flying, LETS DO IT AGAIN!".   Can you at least see it from my point of view?  

I didnt say it was wrong I said it was pointless.  The old mechanics dont mean much now because nukes are no longer an "oh shit button".  the game grew and things got changed to accommodate the new incarnate powers.  Now nukes be they pbaoe or targeted aoe are just strong aoe attacks, that is the reality of the game.  If they make a classic COH server before IOs and incarnate powers then those old mechanics would apply.  MMOs grow and change, look at WoW and how many times they have changed character mechanics and skill trees.

 

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Third, you are wrong.  Your statement is "range presence" when as the T9 is, your ass is in melee when that T9 goes off and it doesn't change the fact, it just makes me think you might prefer playing a Sentinel.  How you can complain about literally one PBoA power in most sets, I don't know as those nukes are still damn powerful.  Its ignorance on your way when you only see it as your way just because you want range because its your preference style.

I have a sentinel as well as blaster, but blasters are definitely more fun.  Sentinels are more survivable but lack gameplay options.  As to how can I complain it is the most powerful AoE that sets have so silly me since my main purpose is to kill things I like the option of do that as efficiently as possible, whether I am playing at range or in melee.  So its ignorance on my part when I propose something that allows players to play a playstyle they enjoy and it doesnt harm other players playstyle.  Making a pbaoe a targeted aoe does not stop a blapper from using it as a pbaoe but leaving it as a pbaoe does prevent a ranged player from using it.  You have a very strange definition for ignorance.

 

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My friend, you don't know as much as you think and don't take this personally. Let me explain:

 

I am a f***ing old fart when it comes to CoH, played since shortly after release and I don't know when you started.  Blaster was my first character after finding my preferred style while dinking around in a few other AT.  AR/Dev, loved the combo and still is my favorite character....but I just can't slog through another round of it because it lost its flavor.  Let me reminisce and lament about it, spoilet cause its gonna be long

Not sure how this demonstrates that I dont know as much as I think I do.  My explanation about Devices was in response to this sentence, "Granted Device's last 2 are kinda useless compared to Hot Feet,  that floating gun breaks the use of cloak (used to be stationary, useless after 1 room without teleport friend) and time bomb has way too long of a set up in a group."  So I was agreeing with you about the last two abilities and made a quick proposal about what could be put in their place to improve the set.  I also agree that AR needs work and the current team should look at some tweaks to it to make it a bit better.  Maybe expand the cone and add some bleeding damage like Savage has.  Last time I checked most people bleed when they are shot so that type of damage would make sense.

 

Also I believe that all the nukes are capped at 10 hits, or at least they were at one point, so its not just an AR issue.  I do agree that you should have line of sight to fire off any nuke, even the targeted ones.  I didnt even know you could fire them from behind cover because I never did.  The only thing I ever used behind cover was Rain of Fire and even that was very very rare.  A bunch of my blasters are fliers so I am either generally airborne or in the thick of things blapping.

Edited November 20, 2019 by dragonhawk777

[Haijinx]

1 hour ago, MunkiLord said:

Absolutely it's selfish, I'm not arguing that. I'm just saying your suggestion is based on what you want, so it's no less selfish. And there's nothing wrong with that. 

In the realm of MMO/RPG ability/powers changes, if the two sides have equal merit, then Status Quo should rule.

 

Not that I think there is any merit to the "blasters don't belong in melee" spiel.

 

 

 

[FDR's Think Tank]

1 hour ago, dragonhawk777 said:

I dont agree with you and I disproved your whole paragraph about a new set being less work than changing one power in an existing set.  Also there is no lore for power sets and no decades of existing structure.  The game was not even active for 10 yrs and I dont count the years it sat buried in a vault as time with existing structure.

There IS lore. People have built countless characters around the self nuke. You want to change the mechanic to punish people who use it as it was originally intended... And you draw a false conclusion that range doesn't have a cost factor or bearing on the set as a whole.

 

Did you know there were equally popular threads that asked for all T9 powers to be self nukes? The Devs explained that the electric and ice sets had a range because after hours of playtesting, they realized the best way to take advantage of their elemental advantages required distance between the player and foes. This topic is 15 years old and you brought not a single new argument to the table. You stubbornly refuse to admit your concerns have less intrusive and more positive and productive solutions.

 

You even admitted that you felt you would be better off making a water blaster than playing the sets with self nukes. I didn't make you say that, I didn't even suggest it because I don't agree... But that's how you FEEL. You are arguing with YOURSELF now. How can anyone have a rational discussion with you?

 

What is wrong with a new fire set or rad set that uses new animations and adds creative options to the game... While addressing the _core mechanics_

issue you are bringing up? You haven't even tried to explain what the issue is and you falsely stated it would take more work. Work done going BACKWARDS and erasing established mechanics  without improving game balance is redundant and effectively wasted. Work done making something new is far more valuable, because it advances everyone without punishing anyone invested in the original system. There are limited programmers, reverse engineers, and devs. You have proven the counterpoints against you more than you have advocated for a worthy investment of currently limited programming resources.

 

That being said... You should check out Thunderspy Gaming/CoX. While they have gotten into some frankly petty conflicts with the Devs of this game, they have, as I understand it, fundamentally rebalanced all the old sets. I haven't heard if it's good, but it very well could include the very things you are talking about. We now live in a world with multiple City of Heroes versions. Their version has wind power proliferation and some other things.

 

Homecoming is focused on keeping the existing classic, only making necessary balance changes and adding _new_ features. Not core set function changes, unless it's brokenly OP. You haven't described anything broken. Just mildly inconvenience from what might actually be a character concept, but you haven't actually told us...

 

Edited November 20, 2019 by FDR's Think Tank

[dragonhawk777]

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There IS lore. People have built countless characters around the self nuke. You want to change the mechanic to punish people who use it as it was originally intended... And you draw a false conclusion that range doesn't have a cost factor or bearing on the set as a whole.

Personal lore is not game lore as the only game lore involves npcs like Statesman.  Also the mechanic does not punish anyone who wants to nuke a group in melee.  If you choose you can still run in and detonate.  The only difference is you would need to have a mob targeted, which is hardly a punishment.  In fact considering nukes got nerfed when they lost the endurance crash, you should be doing that anyways, as there is pretty good odds something in that pack is going to be alive after you detonate..

 

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Did you know there were equally popular threads that asked for all T9 powers to be self nukes? The Devs explained that the electric and ice sets had a range because after hours of playtesting, they realized the best way to take advantage of their elemental advantages required distance between the player and foes. This topic is 15 years old and you brought not a single new argument to the table. You stubbornly refuse to admit your concerns have less intrusive and more positive and productive solutions.

And yet they still went ahead and made Judgement powers, which anyone can get and do eactly what I suggested for T9 powers.  Also please show me where devs are always right.  They are in charge certainly, but just because they stubbornly refuse to admit when they are wrong does not mean they are always right.  I also remember when they tried to justify why mobs should run out of a fire tanks burn patch, saying nobody would stand in fire if it was under thier feet.  The reason was bs and everyone knew it, and it was just a band aid to prevent people from farming content with fire tanks.  Blizzard also took 8 yrs of devs trying to justify why hunters should have a deadzone only to finally admit the community was right and it needed to be changed.

 

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You even admitted that you felt you would be better off making a water blaster than playing the sets with self nukes. I didn't make you say that, I didn't even suggest it because I don't agree... But that's how you FEEL. You are arguing with YOURSELF now. How can anyone have a rational discussion with you?

No I said it would be easier to play a water blaster than make a new power set.  Here is my exact quote,"I could save the devs even more work and just play water, then they dont even need to make a new power set."  It had nothing to do with what I could play or couldnt play, obviously playing an existing power set is easier on the devs since they have to do 0 work on something that is already in the game.

 

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What is wrong with a new fire set or rad set that uses new animations and adds creative options to the game... While addressing the _core mechanics_

issue you are bringing up? You haven't even tried to explain what the issue is and you falsely stated it would take more work. Work done going BACKWARDS and erasing established mechanics  without improving game balance is redundant and effectively wasted. Work done making something new is far more valuable, because it advances everyone without punishing anyone invested in the original system. There are limited programmers, reverse engineers, and devs. You have proven the counterpoints against you more than you have advocated for a worthy investment of currently limited programming resources. That being said... You should check out Thunderspy Gaming/CoX. While they have gotten into some frankly petty conflicts with the Devs of this game, they habe, as I understand it, fundamentally rebalanced all the old sets. I haven't heard if it's good, but it very well could include the very things you are talking about. We now live in a world with multiple City of Heroes versions. Their version has wind power proliferation and some other things.

Truefully I am not even sure what you are saying here, so no idea how to respond to this.

 

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Homecoming is focused on keeping the existing classic, only making balance changes and adding _new_ features. Not core set function changes, unless it's brokenly OP. You haven't described anything broken. Just mildly inconvenience from what might actually be a character concept, but you haven't actually told us..

And yet they changed sniper attacks which have been around as long as nukes have, and made them even more op than they were.  I dont mind and feel the changes have been very good for blasters in particular, who were suffering in the damage vs risk category when compared to scrappers and brutes.

[Haijinx]

Whoa, snipes are OP now? 

 

Whut?

[aethereal]

Snipes are now fast in combat (that is, they do not have the wind up/interrupt time before doing their animation and damage, if you have attacked or been attacked in the last 8 seconds).  They do good damage while fast, and more damage if you have +to-hit.  They do even more damage when they are slow (ie, when you are out of combat).

[Haijinx]

Just now, aethereal said:

Snipes are now fast in combat (that is, they do not have the wind up/interrupt time before doing their animation and damage, if you have attacked or been attacked in the last 8 seconds).  They do good damage while fast, and more damage if you have +to-hit.  They do even more damage when they are slow (ie, when you are out of combat).

Yes, that just means they actually work now.

 

Plus they really help fill out your melee attack chain.

[aethereal]

Sure.  I'm not saying they're overpowered.  I thought you didn't know what dragonhawk was referring to, not that you understood what he was referring to but disagreed whether it constituted overpowered.  Obviously, the sniper change constitutes a buff for characters who have snipes available.

[Haijinx]

24 minutes ago, aethereal said:

Sure.  I'm not saying they're overpowered.  I thought you didn't know what dragonhawk was referring to, not that you understood what he was referring to but disagreed whether it constituted overpowered.  Obviously, the sniper change constitutes a buff for characters who have snipes available.

My only complaint about snipes is the non-snipe sets probably could use something in exchange.  

[Vanden]

33 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

My only complaint about snipes is the non-snipe sets probably could use something in exchange.  

They did get stuff, like how Ice's holds are real attacks now, and the strongest ones in the set to boot.

[Haijinx]

Just now, Vanden said:

They did get stuff, like how Ice's holds are real attacks now, and the strongest ones in the set to boot.

If so, then its all good.  

 

 

[Some Random User]

I get your argument.

 

As long as all of the "ultimates" feel useful and badass I don't care if some of them feel more like Manipulation than Blast. 

 

I would rather the different Powersets have different and distinct flavors. Sometimes that means breaking the rules (like replacing the usual Taunt with a Fear or whatever). Balance them, sure, but let them be different and distinct in unique ways.

[boggo2300]

9 hours ago, Haijinx said:

Blasters don't have a companion AT,

 

And I know I'm /jranger on new ATs in general.

 

But maybe a Ranger AT isn't such a bad idea.   

 

Or something, anything, to end the 15 year debate on Blasters in melee. 

 

If I /jranger a ranger AT does it all cancel out and I actually support the AT?  cos I kinda do,  weird

[Haijinx]

10 minutes ago, boggo2300 said:

If I /jranger a ranger AT does it all cancel out and I actually support the AT?  cos I kinda do,  weird

The advantage would be  ..

 

/jranger just play a ranger  

 

[0th Power]

 

the only ranger i care about

[boggo2300]

On 11/21/2019 at 11:21 AM, Haijinx said:

Yes, that just means they actually work now.

 

Plus they really help fill out your melee attack chain.

I actually find them annoying, having to wait for the pesky yellow ring to go away before I 1 shot the Lt/Boss of the next mob!!

[boggo2300]

10 hours ago, 0th Power said:

 

the only ranger i care about

Man with chest so hairy bears are embarrassed!

Worth watching entirely for the kitten!

Edited November 22, 2019 by boggo2300

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

On 11/19/2019 at 1:04 PM, dragonhawk777 said:

Dont lie because you are purposely being insulting.  Please list any quote where I advocated for the change because I couldnt play as a blaster or use a melee based nuke.  Or list any quote where those who said they could get behind making all the nukes ranged was because they couldnt play with a melee nuke.  In fact the second part of my idea existed just so people who like to play as a blapper could do so.

 

Thank you for that pointless history lesson.  I think its safe to say most if not all the people on these forums know the history of blaster nukes.

 

Maybe learn to actually observe another player in action before you tell him to learn to play better.  The game is already dumbed down and normal content is a breeze with just IOs and not even including Incarnate powers.  Unless you are playing as a blapper running in after your teammates have engaged is pretty pointless as the groups AoEs have the pack dead or nearly dead by the time you run into melee.  Ranged nukes already exist so apparently in your mind if you play a certain power set you can have "riskless" gameplay but others are denied that.  

 

Again you assume nobody who agrees with me knows how to play.  Of course you are wrong and your statements just show your own ignorance.  Making all the nukes ranged mearly evens out dps for those who want to play a ranged blaster and doesnt force you to take certain power sets just to have a ranged nuke.  You actually lose dps if you play as a ranged blaster and try to use a pbaoe nuke in your aoe rotation.  Between running, detonating the nuke, and then backing out you loose dps than if you just stayed at range and fired off your aoe and cone abilities.  Plus as Ive already said in a group situation most mobs are dead in the first wave of aoes after the tank gathers them up.  The only thing left standing is the boss or AV, which are then dealt with with your single target attacks.

 

Also Devices has long been the solo players power set as most of its abilities are designed more around a lone players dealing with an instance.  You get a bunch of buffs and cc with your chief damaging abilities suited towards taking your time.  I could easily one shot every instance boss and most EBs with a stack of Trip Mines and a pull around a corner but most groups wont wait for you to drop a bunch of Trip Mines when they can just charge in and aoe the pack down.  I would love for the current team to change Time Bomb and Gun Drone into something more useful and group friendly.  Ideally I would make Trip Mines the tier 9, and add in something like Sticky Grenade and maybe something like a more powerful Seeker Drone that did more damage but less of a debuff.

Ok lets start from the top.

 

You are the one using Blapper a term long established to in genral be used as a derogatory term for blasters who like to make full use of their power sets and get in close. The term those kind of blasters like myself have always preferred is Blanker as in Point Blank. This is truer then ever with the revamp of blaster 2ndaries increasing the general survival factor of most blaster builds by a large margin if the player understands how to build for it. So you in your first post started the insulting towards blaster vets like myself.

 

Like with other ATs and their power sets, blaster sets allow for great diversity in play style, and no matter how you spin it if your going to put pbaoe nukes into the 2ndary something will have to be lost. My Psi/Ment build is a thing of sacred divine beauty and anyone advocating any change to power sets that would frell with it has drawna  line in the sand and made themselves my dire nemesis.

 

Blaster has been well known and notorious for being popular for new players but rarely being played into the upper level range because the vst majority of players are yes bad at building and playing blasters. I know because as a blaster that routinely out performs most other blaster builds, tanker builds, scrapper builds, and brute builds when it comes to taking point and laying waste I can assure you very few players can run a blaster optimally.

 

The fact you speak of newb wowtard tactics like corner pulling, tank herding, and needing to fall back on a blaster tells me you havent yet adapted to how most 2ndaries give enough self sustaining to stay in the middle of the fight without fear if build well. And nope, since they were added to the game dark primary/ment 2ndary was the go to solo blaster king. Between the to hit debuffing and self sustaining that is Drain Psyche basically since I want to say year 3? was the go to king of solo blasting.

 

My blaster or blanker as is most appropriate is always the 1st into the frey, depending on the team Ill leave the barely living bosses behind for the team to clean up while moving on to wipe out the next group. And I can do this at all sorts of level ranges while flash backing. So no DPS loss because uhm surprise we move so fast in this game closing for pbaoe is not some big factor.

 

You also seem to forget incarnate and IO abilities are non factors when talking about power changes and balance changes neither is ever relevant to the discussion because the game in general is balanced around SOs, and pre incarnate content is balanced around non incarnates. So what a super IOd out incarnate group can do in general content is just meaningless to mention.

 

Frankly you come off as QQing about not getting to use your biggest DPS often enough, are unhappy with the non wowtard approach the general population plays with, acting more heroic and jumping into the fray rather then slow methodical letting the slowest get their chance to shine style WoW and the like tend to favor.

 

There are clearly blaster power sets that do what you want blaster sets to do, use those, and leave the sets that dont to those that like them as they are.

 

I am Bentley Berkeley I was the blaster beast of Virtue. I do not have rivals and few peers among Blasters. Those that are among them tend to be damn good builders and damn good players who build out of the box and do not think of themselves as glass cannons so much as orbital death rays that can choose to crash into planets destroying them while remaining unscathed.

[MunkiLord]

16 minutes ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

You are the one using Blapper a term long established to in genral be used as a derogatory term for blasters who like to make full use of their power sets and get in close. The term those kind of blasters like myself have always preferred is Blanker as in Point Blank. 

I get this is a matter of perception, so I'm not saying you're wrong, just to be clear. But I always liked the term Blapper and greatly prefer it to Blanker. But I'm also a long time Scrapper player so that may play a factor.

[Myrmidon]

On 11/18/2019 at 11:36 PM, Haijinx said:

/Jranger on 2 nukes

Agreed. Wait until Judgement for your second nuke like everyone else.

[Myrmidon]

46 minutes ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

I am Bentley Berkeley I was the blaster beast of Virtue. I do not have rivals and few peers among Blasters. Those that are among them tend to be damn good builders and damn good players who build out of the box and do not think of themselves as glass cannons so much as orbital death rays that can choose to crash into planets destroying them while remaining unscathed.

Squishies...

Edited November 22, 2019 by Myrmidon

[Haijinx]

2 hours ago, MunkiLord said:

I get this is a matter of perception, so I'm not saying you're wrong, just to be clear. But I always liked the term Blapper and greatly prefer it to Blanker. But I'm also a long time Scrapper player so that may play a factor.

Blasters have the strongest Melee attacks of any AT, so the correct term for a melee blaster is probably Blaster 

[MunkiLord]

6 hours ago, Haijinx said:

Blasters have the strongest Melee attacks of any AT, so the correct term for a melee blaster is probably Blaster 

No way! Everyone should try to be more like Scrappers. Blasters do it by blending the names together.

[boggo2300]

2 hours ago, MunkiLord said:

No way! Everyone should try to be more like Scrappers. Blasters do it by blending the names together.

scrappers are second rate blasters without proper ranged dps 😄

[BrandX]

On 11/20/2019 at 5:48 PM, Haijinx said:

My only complaint about snipes is the non-snipe sets probably could use something in exchange.  

Which, I recall the original CoH devs were talking about doing, when they buffed all the other sets that had a snipe.  However, the game then got shut down.

 

The HC Devs then buffed the snipe even more and the other sets still didn't get improved. 😕