Blaster Tier 9 powers

[dragonhawk777]

This is a multipart suggestion, but it does center on blasters, hence the title of the thread.

 

Part one is make all the Tier 9 nukes ranged attacks the way they are in sets like Ice and Electric.  The tier 9 powers have always been in a weird spot for blasters, some like AR and Archery have fit perfect with the theme of their power sets and others like Ice and Electric have made sense in that they are powerful aoe ranged attack.  Others though have made little sense, such as fire or dark, where in a power set entirely dedicated to ranged attacks you have to get up into melee range for your top tier ability.  So make all the tier 9 primary attacks ranged ones.  You can use the animations that sets like Ice and Electric use for their activation and use the numbers from those sets as the base of where to set the damage numbers, adjusting where needed.  Defenders, Corruptors and Sentinels would also have this change apply to them.

 

Parts two and three should be looked at as possible options  but part one is the main point of the idea and can be accomplished without the other two parts.  The main reason for moving the PBAoE I was to accommodate blappers, but since there is no minimum range on our ranged attacks you can use even a ranged nuke in melee range, thus those who like to detonate their nukes while standing in the middle of the crowd can still do so.

 

Part two is to take the melee based tier 9 abilities and move it to some of the more blappery secondaries, such as fire, energy and radiation.  Checking character data could show what powers are more routinely skipped and just eliminate those powers from the pool.  In place abilities like Total Focus would move down to tier 8 and the PBAOE would be the new tier 9 ability.  So for example fire could lose Hot Feet and in its place it would get Inferno.  Now whether the melee pbaoe or the new ranged version keeps the original name is a minor thing, but obviously you would need a new name for one of them.  So if Inferno was teh secondary tier 9 then the new fire primary could be called Plasma Ball, as it would be an upgrade over Fire Ball.

 

Part three is scrapper, tanker, and Brute melee abilities also get the pbaoe on their power sets.  A low taken power would be eliminated to make room for the new ability.  Numbers would be adjusted based on the AT and the mechanics for each AT.

 

The list of blaster primaries that would get changed to a cone attack:  Pistols, Sonic, & Psychic.

The list of primaries that would be a targeted AoE:  Fire, Dark, Energy, & Radiation.

Edited November 20, 2019 by dragonhawk777

[Vanden]

[Razor Cure]

Let's not change blaster Nukes. Sonic, rad, dark, and psi ALL have really good secondary effects tacked on. And Fire does more damage, as it should be.

The ranged nukes are usually a bit less damage, to make up for the extra flexability. DP I feel is one most in need of a buff..damage is 2nd worst, it is a DoT (which makes it seem even lower) and you have to enter melee. That said HoB looks utterly amazing, and teh +def is nice.

AR gets screwed..with teh worst damage, lower max targets (at least it was), DoT and its a cone. All in a set with no Aim.

[dragonhawk777]

I am not talking about changing any secondary effects and the only damage changes would be balance related so you may not need to change the damage at all.  You also dont even lose the pbaoe as it would be moved to the blaster secondaries, so you lose nothing.  The PBAoE just gets moved to blaster secodaries where all the other melee abilities are.

 

[boggo2300]

Sorry, but that sounds awful 😞

[Lost Ninja]

I could agree with making the current PBAoE Tier 9s into TargetedAoEs instead. As someone who primarily plays blasters as ranged attackers it annoys me when I need to move into melee to do my best damage attack. The fact that outside of Incarnate content I 100% ToeBomb, is neither here nor there. 😉 But I don't think moving the PBAoEs to the secondary would be a good thing. It would make one or two secondaries far more powerful then the rest. You also don't address what you'd place into the primary pool as a replacement.

 

I'd also like to know what problem warrants this change?

[HelenCarnate]

Making nukes ranged I could live with but don't mess with the secondary sets. I use most of the powers that you think are skipped. 

[Super Homer]

13 hours ago, dragonhawk777 said:

some like AR and Archery have fit perfect with the theme of their power sets and others like Ice and Electric have made sense in that they are powerful aoe ranged attack.  Others though have made little sense, such as fire or dark

What do you mean fire does not make sense??? Human Torch Point Blank Nova burst move is literally that.

 

 

I dare bet money that Human Torch was the basis for the whole Blaster AT to begin with.

 

[dragonhawk777]

boggo2300, so I dont expect I will ever see you play an Ice, Electric, AR, Beam or Archery blaster, corruptor or defender, since they all have ranged nukes.

 

Lost Ninja and Helencarnate, I included the changes to secondaries to accommodate those who like to play as a blapper, as they would be the likely ones to make the most use of the current nuke mechanics.  As to why I proposed the change Lost Ninja you said it, as it is annoying to play a ranged character only to have to run into melee for just one attack.  With the Incarnate nukes I have just skipped some of the pbaoe nukes and just make the incarnate ones as part of my aoe rotation.  So my part 1 is where I would love to see happen, and I put part 2 and 3 in to accommodate others who want a more melee centered combat on their blaster.  I wouldnt mind a general overhaul of blaster secondaries to even them out, and while a melee nuke may not work well with all secondaries I think stuff could be done to make all secondaries equally viable.  For example if you took Devices and dumped both Time Bomb and Gun Drone, and then replaced it with Sticky grenade and Fusion Grenade it would even out Devices so it had some closer range abilities (make both 20-30 yd vs the 80 yd of blaster primaries).  The last thing I would want to do is make a op build that everyone felt forced to tak like the old Ice/Energy was in pvp way back when.

 

Helencarnate, as I said what powers are eliminated would be something the devs would best be able to determine, since they have access to all the current character data.  The powers I listed were just there as a guide post, since they seem to be the ones most skipped in any of the builds posted.  If they are used more then by all means keep them and eliminate something else.

 

unknown, the Torch has done that but can also use other melee based fire attacks, so if you were to make a Human Torch character it would be a fire/fire blaster.  To accommodate that I said put melee based nukes in secondaries along with all the other melee based abilities.  Also comic book writers can write whatever power they want into a comic, but the game has set mechanics that devs are forced to work within, so within the existing blaster mechanics and how the primary skills are setup it makes more sense to place a pbaoe in the set that utilizes melee based attacks, namely the blaster secondaries.

[Bossk_Hogg]

19 hours ago, Razor Cure said:

 

The ranged nukes are usually a bit less damage, to make up for the extra flexability. DP I feel is one most in need of a buff..damage is 2nd worst, it is a DoT (which makes it seem even lower) and you have to enter melee. That said HoB looks utterly amazing, and teh +def is nice.

AR gets screwed..with teh worst damage, lower max targets (at least it was), DoT and its a cone. All in a set with no Aim.

Only Thunderous Blast gets shafted for ranged nukes (because of the Screw Electric tax the OG devs built in). The other ranged nukes (Geyser, Overcharge) deal the same damage as Nova/Blackstar etc with the same recharge. Range doesnt factor into the damage formula, only recharge and area. T Blast does need its recharge lowered to be consistent with Geyser, ROA and Overcharge.

 

Rain of Arrows and Full Auto do need some love IMO, particularly since they were crashless and didnt get anything when the crashes were removed on the other nukes.

Edited November 18, 2019 by Bossk_Hogg

[Haijinx]

I think there's a couple of Teir 9s that need their numbers normalized/ adjusted.

 

Full Auto cone width and animation time comes to mind.

 

Doesnt Electric TB have a bit longer recharge?

 

But making them all ranged? 

 

NAH. 

[Razor Cure]

36 minutes ago, Bossk_Hogg said:

Only Thunderous Blast gets shafted for ranged nukes (because of the Screw Electric tax the OG devs built in). The other ranged nukes (Geyser, Overcharge) deal the same damage as Nova/Blackstar etc with the same recharge.

AAre you sure? Not saying you are wrong, but I was looking at teh damage in Mids when I posted my reply. AR is lowest, fire teh highest, and dark/sonic/rad/ elec and maybe arrow were teh same.

[Leogunner]

So you want Blaster to have access to 2 nukes?

[Bossk_Hogg]

2 hours ago, Razor Cure said:

AAre you sure? Not saying you are wrong, but I was looking at teh damage in Mids when I posted my reply. AR is lowest, fire teh highest, and dark/sonic/rad/ elec and maybe arrow were teh same.

Sorry, should clarify, same damage coefficient in the formula. Geyser and Overcharge do deal less damage, but they recharge faster. But they don't pay a premium for being ranged, as that isnt taken into account in the balance equation.

 

Overcharge/Geyser deal 219 damage with a 125 second recharge (1.75)

Blackstar/Psychic Wail/Dreadful Wail etc deal 250 damage with a 145 second recharge (1.72)

Thunderous Blast is the outlier with 250 damage at 170 seconds (1.47)

 

Thunderous Blast was never really fixed when they mostly evened the nukes out post damage formula. You'll note all the "traditional" nukes are standardized on Sentinels regardless of range. T Blast unfortunately continues to pay Jack Emmert's electric blast tax because the guy who didn't know dick about balance thought endurance drain was "too good". At least the T 1 and 2 blasts got fixed,

 

Link to the design formulas below

 

Edited November 19, 2019 by Bossk_Hogg

[HelenCarnate]

1 hour ago, Leogunner said:

So you want Blaster to have access to 2 nukes?

As I reread it, that is what it sounds like.  That would be stupidly unbalanced. Run to spawn 1 BU/Aim Nuke, shoot a couple bosses a couple times. Run to spawn 2 repeat.  On a high recharge build you would be able to nuke 4x in the duration of a red inspiration. 

[dragonhawk777]

4 hours ago, Leogunner said:

So you want Blaster to have access to 2 nukes?

That is certainly a consideration, but as I said the main point was to make all the nukes ranged and none of them pbaoe by default.  I think the cries of the idea being op are overblown as we already have two nukes now with Incarnate powers.  Plus most contnet is nothing but a steamroll once you are IOed with a good build.  Being op in this game for 99% of the content is fairly easy, with only some of the incarnate trials being any sort of a challenge.  I suppose even if you dont change secondaries and move melee nukes there those that like to play as blappers can just fire off a ranged nuke in melee range.  As I said the main reason for proposing a second nuke was so that those who liked a certain playstyle were not denied that playstyle.  All ranged nukes though are what I would really like to see.

[BrandX]

I don't want to give up my PBAOE on Dual Pistols.

[Haijinx]

/Jranger on 2 nukes

[boggo2300]

7 hours ago, dragonhawk777 said:

boggo2300, so I dont expect I will ever see you play an Ice, Electric, AR, Beam or Archery blaster, corruptor or defender, since they all have ranged nukes.

 

Lost Ninja and Helencarnate, I included the changes to secondaries to accommodate those who like to play as a blapper, as they would be the likely ones to make the most use of the current nuke mechanics.  As to why I proposed the change Lost Ninja you said it, as it is annoying to play a ranged character only to have to run into melee for just one attack.  With the Incarnate nukes I have just skipped some of the pbaoe nukes and just make the incarnate ones as part of my aoe rotation.  So my part 1 is where I would love to see happen, and I put part 2 and 3 in to accommodate others who want a more melee centered combat on their blaster.  I wouldnt mind a general overhaul of blaster secondaries to even them out, and while a melee nuke may not work well with all secondaries I think stuff could be done to make all secondaries equally viable.  For example if you took Devices and dumped both Time Bomb and Gun Drone, and then replaced it with Sticky grenade and Fusion Grenade it would even out Devices so it had some closer range abilities (make both 20-30 yd vs the 80 yd of blaster primaries).  The last thing I would want to do is make a op build that everyone felt forced to tak like the old Ice/Energy was in pvp way back when.

 

Helencarnate, as I said what powers are eliminated would be something the devs would best be able to determine, since they have access to all the current character data.  The powers I listed were just there as a guide post, since they seem to be the ones most skipped in any of the builds posted.  If they are used more then by all means keep them and eliminate something else.

 

unknown, the Torch has done that but can also use other melee based fire attacks, so if you were to make a Human Torch character it would be a fire/fire blaster.  To accommodate that I said put melee based nukes in secondaries along with all the other melee based abilities.  Also comic book writers can write whatever power they want into a comic, but the game has set mechanics that devs are forced to work within, so within the existing blaster mechanics and how the primary skills are setup it makes more sense to place a pbaoe in the set that utilizes melee based attacks, namely the blaster secondaries.

I have all of those, my Main in fact in both live and here is an Ar/Dev blaster

[boggo2300]

7 hours ago, Haijinx said:

I think there's a couple of Teir 9s that need their numbers normalized/ adjusted.

 

Full Auto cone width and animation time comes to mind.

 

Doesnt Electric TB have a bit longer recharge?

 

But making them all ranged? 

 

NAH. 

Hey!! Leave my full auto alone!! I love that!!

[Haijinx]

1 minute ago, boggo2300 said:

Hey!! Leave my full auto alone!! I love that!!

Was hoping to make it better

[boggo2300]

3 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

Was hoping to make it better

I got that after I posted, but I'm not convinced it needs it,  it could just be it meshes really well with my playstyle but I've never been disappointed with it

[Haijinx]

2 minutes ago, boggo2300 said:

I got that after I posted, but I'm not convinced it needs it,  it could just be it meshes really well with my playstyle but I've never been disappointed with it

Wider cone and faster animation is what generally is talked about.

 

Perhaps 30 degrees instead of the 20

 

Maybe under 4 seconds lol?

 

 

[boggo2300]

3 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

Wider cone and faster animation is what generally is talked about.

 

Perhaps 30 degrees instead of the 20

 

Maybe under 4 seconds lol?

 

 

I would never say no, but as my AR blaster is a sniper, the main use I have of Full Auto is clearing minon mobs left after I kill their Boss 😄 they tend to clump up quite well, and my snipe range is enough the time rarely becomes an issue,  but I could adjust 😉

[Outrider_01]

(Incomming wall of text)

 

So basically most of do not know how to play blasters?  Those asking for range nukes.  (Not insulting, just my own dumb opinion.)

 

Its called a nuke for a reason, it is not called WTFBBQPWN buttom. Nukes are last resort options, just like in real world (terrible comparison but its an apt one)  Back in the day the 32 power  were situational powers your only used when the shit hits the fan, excluding AR/ but it was a slow damage dot with a lot of ticks and a highly resisted damage type. And when no target cap at the time,  you could lag out from the flying numbers.

 

Thought electric was a very short range nuke, like 30 ft to target? 

 

-Fire/Energy/Electric where like 10 damage right out of the box at explosion, AR was 2/2/2/2/2 with low chance for an extra tick.  Blizzard like .5 x20 ticks.  This is just an easy to understand comparison.

 

-Blizzard was the same as AR but dot ticks were smaller in larger numer of ticks and had slow added to do damage because rains cause NPC to run out; try Fire's Rain of Fire as they get it early and see how effective it is.  Blizzard  had an endurance crash like the others, AR didn't so see next paragraph. Blizzard was ranged and I don't know why but it was probably to make it different  since the other ones where already 3 instant explosion types and to theme it with ice.

 

-AR had a massively long animation time for the resisted damage type which means you can die in the process and while the other were near instant. Animation time = endurance crash, either used in melee range is a huge risk while Ice couldn't fire anything with the crash.  Your in melee range any way when you g get attention.

 

-They all had endurance crashes but AR having resisted damage, shooting freak bosses or Malta robots were not very effective.

 

The time recharge and endurance crash was to make the player aware of and use it as situational power, not a dumbed down instant and safe to use power.

 

There is nothing wrong with PBoE powers, its like complaining melee don't have enough ranged outside a few wonky ones like spines which was to make them different; the melee aoe ground punchers might be considered OP now since they are "melee" but they have almost no penalty except large endurance costs that can be negated with reduction unlike blasters; but not gonna complain.  A lot of melee have shitty really narrow cones that could be expanded a bit but not making all weapons like broadsword a clone of mace.

 

Gonna mention, this was a long time ago.  Someone mentioned they have no crash anymore up in thread so I am gonna look back at blasters again to start one.  I will also point out with the current meta of IO or Incarnates you should be using your other powers more then the nukes, they are far more effective in the long run then a longer recharge nume power.  RNGesus! super strength tankers went from single target with AoE minor attacks meant more for control  (like knowdown) into killing explosive murder machines; they don't stop and don't need their ultimate click powers.

 

All I can say is, learn to play better as a player and not ask to dumb it down so its a riskless attack after the melee teammates go into combat, NPC will die too fast any way to group AoE. 

 

-Don't run into melee range at the start, you can wait 5 seconds as your melee get the attentionand then pop that nuke so those 5th column grenade launchers toss you on your butt from 3-4 of them at the same time.

 

-Utilize what you got.  There all kinds of tricks you can pull off, use your imagination. Get creative.  Secondary sets with all that control powers let you use your primary more effective then a single 1 click power in the primary.  Granted Device's last 2 are kinda useless compared to Hot Feet,  that floating gun breaks the use of cloak (used to be stationary, useless after 1 room without teleport friend) and time bomb has way too long of a set up in a group.

 

1 click high damage powers on very long timersare a crutch if you need to use it often and at range.  Squishy have a weakness for the damage, other wise you can play a sentinal with range and status protection in melee range where you can get range and survivability.

 

Edited November 19, 2019 by Outrider_01