Global Knockback->Knockdown IO for Travel Powers/Rest

[Steampunkette]

One thing @Rathulfr: My argument isn't a slippery slope.

 

There are already people who kick people off teams for KB, or send tells to anyone who doesn't have KB IOs slotted. Heck, there's been threads of "Remove KB From PBs Entirely PlsKthxBye!"

 

There's been "No more KB in City" threads in the past. And people who want the ability to have a "No KB Toggle" everyone gets access to. There's even at least a few people who want the Group Leader exclusively to have control over -your- "No KB Toggle" as long as you're on their team.

 

A Slippery Slope is like when Pat Robertson argued that allowing two grown consenting adults of the same (or similar) gender get married means that we have to legalized Bestiality 'cause someone's gonna wanna fuck a duck and to him there's no material difference between the two.

 

A Slippery Slope is "A leads to B, therefore A also leads to Q" where Q is far down the line of possibilities.

 

All the stuff in my post is "Already happened" or "Is happening"

[Bossk_Hogg]

On 1/1/2020 at 6:26 AM, Steampunkette said:

Different powers have different functions. Umbral Torrent, for example, deals less damage than Energy Torrent because it's a Control/Debuff power with 100% control efficacy while Energy Torrent is a Damage/Control power with 50% control efficacy.

 

 

Umbral Torrent and Energy Torrent deal the same damage per mids at least. There are a number of differences, but damage doesnt appear to be one of them. 

[Bossk_Hogg]

23 minutes ago, Rathulfr said:

I also agree with @Steampunkette's slippery-slope argument: when we give players the option to globally convert KB to KD, then that "option" will soon become "required" to join teams, which is effectively "mandatory".  There have already been discussions about it in this thread.

 

 

 

I'm still not sure how "you might get the option to join a team that wouldn't invite you currently" is a big issue.

 

KB greatly annoys some people. Those people don't necessarily want to fight static enemies dropping out of a tube or only farm chump content. If they cared that much about efficiency, they certainly wouldnt be teaming with randos anyways, as weak IO slotting "slows down" a team more than AE KB does honestly.  They simply don't want to be irritated during their leisure time, because that one time on a mission where their target goes flying over a rail pisses them off like nails on a chalkboard. Its an argument of pure emotion.

 

Similarly, the "benefit" of KB is really only fun (mainly for the user, as with all the effects I can't tell what is going on half the time). It's not really any safer for the team than KD, so there's no point presenting it as a significant advantage. 

Edited January 2, 2020 by Bossk_Hogg

[Rathulfr]

4 minutes ago, Steampunkette said:

One thing @Rathulfr: My argument isn't a slippery slope.

 

There are already people who kick people off teams for KB, or send tells to anyone who doesn't have KB IOs slotted. Heck, there's been threads of "Remove KB From PBs Entirely PlsKthxBye!"

 

There's been "No more KB in City" threads in the past. And people who want the ability to have a "No KB Toggle" everyone gets access to. There's even at least a few people who want the Group Leader exclusively to have control over -your- "No KB Toggle" as long as you're on their team.

 

A Slippery Slope is like when Pat Robertson argued that allowing two grown consenting adults of the same (or similar) gender get married means that we have to legalized Bestiality 'cause someone's gonna wanna fuck a duck and to him there's no material difference between the two.

 

A Slippery Slope is "A leads to B, therefore A also leads to Q" where Q is far down the line of possibilities.

 

All the stuff in my post is "Already happened" or "Is happening"

 

Eh, whatever.  I think your definition of "slippery slope" is a bit more pedantic and technical than mine.

 

I may have been less than optimally precise about it, but that might be because I don't think it's been that big a deal.  But then again, I play Energy Blast on only 3 of my top 5 toons, so I'm rarely exposed to much anti-KB prejudice.  Perhaps if I played a Peacebringer I'd be more upset about it.

 

First they came for the Kheldians, and I said nothing, for I was not a Kheldian.

Then they came for the Storms, and I said nothing, for I was not Storm.

Then they came for the Energy Blasts ...

 

[Haijinx]

Ah wow, energy torrent is one of the best blaster cones though! 

 

Nice arc, super fast animation, available at low level.  

[Rathulfr]

1 minute ago, Haijinx said:

Ah wow, energy torrent is one of the best blaster cones though! 

 

Nice arc, super fast animation, available at low level.  

Yes, but it's still a cone.  😒

[Haijinx]

1 minute ago, Rathulfr said:

Yes, but it's still a cone.  😒

Think of it as a big sweeping wave of death.

 

Uh.  Arresting Power. 

[Bossk_Hogg]

3 minutes ago, Rathulfr said:

Yes, but it's still a cone.  😒

45 degrees is a really nice arc though. It's a boss power, plus you can buy plasmatic tasers to double down on it!

[Saiyajinzoningen]

9 hours ago, Rathulfr said:

 

Eh, whatever.  I think your definition of "slippery slope" is a bit more pedantic and technical than mine.

 

I may have been less than optimally precise about it, but that might be because I don't think it's been that big a deal.  But then again, I play Energy Blast on only 3 of my top 5 toons, so I'm rarely exposed to much anti-KB prejudice.  Perhaps if I played a Peacebringer I'd be more upset about it.

 

First they came for the Kheldians, and I said nothing, for I was not a Kheldian.

Then they came for the Storms, and I said nothing, for I was not Storm.

Then they came for the Energy Blasts ...

 

tbh id much rather they remove the fear effect from the darn tornado than anything with storm

[MunkiLord]

16 hours ago, Bossk_Hogg said:

I'm still not sure how "you might get the option to join a team that wouldn't invite you currently" is a big issue.

"Asking"  someone to go to Null the Gull would be (incorrectly) perceived as less of a dick move than "asking" someone to slot certain IOs in their build, so more people absolutely would do that. Though in reality it's just as much of a control freak dick move. Now whether or not "more people" is significant enough to matter is up for debate, but it would happen more often.

[Bossk_Hogg]

1 hour ago, MunkiLord said:

"Asking"  someone to go to Null the Gull would be (incorrectly) perceived as less of a dick move than "asking" someone to slot certain IOs in their build, so more people absolutely would do that. Though in reality it's just as much of a control freak dick move. Now whether or not "more people" is significant enough to matter is up for debate, but it would happen more often.

Maybe its time to accept that KB is the burned popcorn/microwaved week old fish of the office lunch room, and that some people just don't like the smell? It doesnt make them bad at the game, or big fat meanies, they just don't want so sit at the same table. 

Edited January 3, 2020 by Bossk_Hogg

[Saiyajinzoningen]

heres the thing, if u know how to use KB effectively people on teams are not going to complain one way or the other AND

if u dont know how to use it properly people are going to complain regardless if theres a change or not.

 

so the whole people "blacklist" thing is just a fallacy

 

[Lusid]

I had an earth/storm character on live that skipped the aoe immobilize and focused on whipping groups around with unrelenting knockbacks. I got more compliments on the character's performance than you'd imagine with KB hate. Not only was the character incredibly fun, everyone who could adapt to it found no issues. From that experience i found a good way to greatly lessen the complaints about KB and people being shunned for using it would be to expand the ranges on AoE attacks. Thinking about it honestly, what really would become unbalanced by having ranges increased? There's already a target limit (which i also disagree with), and i cannot think of any way this would give a serious advantage. All immobilizes now turn KB to KD, pulls are already pretty packed and a very short wait after the tank strolls in and they're all compacted anyway. Wormhole packs everyone on use if it's available. Turning a 20' bomb into a 35'-40' instead won't tip the scales of balance. Even increasing pbaoe skills like foot stomp to 20-25 won't have serious repercussions. Watching mighty go off makes everyone giggle with excitement, let all the abilities go nuts. Incarnates can be cranked even higher. I mean why not?

[Saiyajinzoningen]

i too have 2 storm characters whom i absolutely love. Storm is an unloved stepchild that deserves more praise. however as fun as the AT is and as much as i love it, they would be better if i didnt have a KB slot tax.

[oedipus_tex]

I think Energy Blast (exclusively) should have a power to toggle the strength of their knocks between knockback, knockdown, and none. That mechanic exists in Dual Pistols. I want it and have always wanted it in Energy Blast, the knock expert.

 

The IOs have helped but I would like more control over deciding, blast to blast, what I want to have happen. Sometimes ruining an enemy picnic with a knockback Nova is just what I wanted.

 

What this would let me do is slot as much knockback strength as possible in my blasts, then decide with each shot whether I wanted to apply it. I think it would be incredibly fun to play.

[Troo]

Alright, started a poll so folks can vote without having to explain.

 

Knockback Love/Hate Poll