New COV Zones

[Force Redux]

20 hours ago, Tyrannical said:

I think Striga Isle would be a good candidate to turn into a villain zone. Besides two TF contacts, there isn't really much going on there, and I don't think it's actually part of Paragon city. It could be pretty easy for villain groups to secure more of a foothold there and blockade access to it from Paragon with a little more effort.

Reworking it into a co-op zone would be much better. Little impact to existing heroes. Opens another zone to villains, and Striga is definitely a great candidate by way of flavor to have Arachnos sink it's claws into.

Edited January 9, 2020 by Force Redux

[quixoteprog]

7 hours ago, boggo2300 said:

plus taking things from the majority of players to give to the minority is never gonna fly

 

new villain zones fine, if you can convince the dev team there is enough player interest, taking things away from the rest, er no way, thats how you kill a game

There are quite a few hero zones that are sparsely populated. I don't think it is in any danger of killing the game. Especially not after it has died and returned once already.

 

And if it was so horrible, suuuuuch a hardship on heroes to lose a zone or two it would probably be almost as easy to just copy the zone, give it a minor remake with darker textures, and then call it "Iron Canyon" or "Nightway City". Then you have a new zone on the cheap.

[boggo2300]

3 minutes ago, quixoteprog said:

There are quite a few hero zones that are sparsely populated. I don't think it is in any danger of killing the game. Especially not after it has died and returned once already.

 

And if it was so horrible, suuuuuch a hardship on heroes to lose a zone or two it would probably be almost as easy to just copy the zone, give it a minor remake with darker textures, and then call it "Iron Canyon" or "Nightway City". Then you have a new zone on the cheap.

taking something from a group in a game is ALWAYS a bad idea, why do you think we ended up with the echo zones after they removed them from the game when they drank the freemium koolade? but since you would be risking alienating the largest group of players to do something which according to the lead dev, and co-author of the engine doesn't actually make it easier to complete a zone, it seems like a dumb idea, and if new zones are desperately needed (I don't think they are, and with the current resources you are probably looking at YEARS to get a new zone up) they would be better done as new zones matching the feel 

[Alchemystic]

1 hour ago, boggo2300 said:

taking something from a group in a game is ALWAYS a bad idea, why do you think we ended up with the echo zones after they removed them from the game when they drank the freemium koolade? but since you would be risking alienating the largest group of players to do something which according to the lead dev, and co-author of the engine doesn't actually make it easier to complete a zone, it seems like a dumb idea, and if new zones are desperately needed (I don't think they are, and with the current resources you are probably looking at YEARS to get a new zone up) they would be better done as new zones matching the feel 

Then create an Echo for it like Galaxy and Dark Astoria

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

Yeah no sorry terrible idea. And you think a zone like striga sees little action? Bud I can put together a fast moonfire or hess run any time of the day and it almost always fills because Striga is a beloved zone. Many consider the final mission of the Hess TF one of the coolest things to see. Every time I have a first timer in the group I tell them to look out the window of the control room in the previou mish to see the giant robot and every time I have people even those who have run the tf before go wait what omg thats awesome screenshot time or something along those lines.

 

Many regularly run the arcs for the useful temp powers like the emp grenades which with a build up is basically a  nuke on robot and freak foes. The wedding ring and even its short lived echo are things basically people always get. The war wolf whistle the same. really only the holy shotgun tends to be seen as why bother.

 

I mean yeah some bitch about the cave maps but well those type of folks are always gonna complain about basically anything that isnt just a one giant room kill all map imo.

 

Turning it into a co op zone sure I guess, but why bother, go rogue and go over, or go full vigilante.

 

You also may not of gotten the memo, but part of the plan after the death of statesman was to turn recluse well not good but more neutral. Never forget his help in saving the world from Darren Wades twisted plot.

 

So I personally think if new content is added or old content reworked it should be in the direction of arachnos moving away from villain and towards the rogue/vigilante alignment.After all that is basically were Vanguard and Lady Grey operate.

 

Now what I could get behind is having boom town rebuilt into New Praetoria and put some of the oh so lovely praetorian cityscapes there. Because blue side always deserves more, and gold side is such a tragedy to not be seen more. I recently got someone who had never played gold side to try praetoria, they had literally never stepped into it even for a flashback arc, and were utterly blown away by the visuals of that region. All that work, making those areas, they  need to be seen more in the heavily trafficked part of the game world. Hell just say there was some teleport the entire city secret plan and have actual praetoria just appear as a new island and make it a co op zone or pvp zone for blue and red to freely go to. Remove or replace specific NPCs as needed. and dont fret new arcs etc yet just have it be for pvp/pve interaction and street sweeping for now, but get that beauty of a game space brought into the mainstream world.

[golstat2003]

I'd prefer if more zones were made co-op. The game has too many unused zones already.

[siolfir]

11 minutes ago, golstat2003 said:

I'd prefer if more zones were made co-op. The game has too many unused zones already.

I'd like to see competitive zones with mechanics similar to Recluse's Victory to affect the spawns. This wouldn't be direct PvP, but running missions would shift spawns, possibly causing some different textures for the buildings, and so on. Take Faultline, for example - allow both hero and villain players to run missions which would either increase the Arachnos presence (larger spawns in more areas) or reduce it to only within the base depending on who was running more content. Different zones would have different themes and different groups expanding/contracting their presence. It's a lot more work, which means it won't happen, but IMO it's how City of Villains should have been introduced in the first place.

[golstat2003]

3 minutes ago, siolfir said:

I'd like to see competitive zones with mechanics similar to Recluse's Victory to affect the spawns. This wouldn't be direct PvP, but running missions would shift spawns, possibly causing some different textures for the buildings, and so on. Take Faultline, for example - allow both hero and villain players to run missions which would either increase the Arachnos presence (larger spawns in more areas) or reduce it to only within the base depending on who was running more content. Different zones would have different themes and different groups expanding/contracting their presence. It's a lot more work, which means it won't happen, but IMO it's how City of Villains should have been introduced in the first place.

That would be interesting. 

[Alchemystic]

1 hour ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

Yeah no sorry terrible idea. And you think a zone like striga sees little action? Bud I can put together a fast moonfire or hess run any time of the day and it almost always fills because Striga is a beloved zone. Many consider the final mission of the Hess TF one of the coolest things to see. Every time I have a first timer in the group I tell them to look out the window of the control room in the previou mish to see the giant robot and every time I have people even those who have run the tf before go wait what omg thats awesome screenshot time or something along those lines.

 

Many regularly run the arcs for the useful temp powers like the emp grenades which with a build up is basically a  nuke on robot and freak foes. The wedding ring and even its short lived echo are things basically people always get. The war wolf whistle the same. really only the holy shotgun tends to be seen as why bother.

 

I mean yeah some bitch about the cave maps but well those type of folks are always gonna complain about basically anything that isnt just a one giant room kill all map imo.

 

Turning it into a co op zone sure I guess, but why bother, go rogue and go over, or go full vigilante.

 

You also may not of gotten the memo, but part of the plan after the death of statesman was to turn recluse well not good but more neutral. Never forget his help in saving the world from Darren Wades twisted plot.

 

So I personally think if new content is added or old content reworked it should be in the direction of arachnos moving away from villain and towards the rogue/vigilante alignment.After all that is basically were Vanguard and Lady Grey operate.

 

Now what I could get behind is having boom town rebuilt into New Praetoria and put some of the oh so lovely praetorian cityscapes there. Because blue side always deserves more, and gold side is such a tragedy to not be seen more. I recently got someone who had never played gold side to try praetoria, they had literally never stepped into it even for a flashback arc, and were utterly blown away by the visuals of that region. All that work, making those areas, they  need to be seen more in the heavily trafficked part of the game world. Hell just say there was some teleport the entire city secret plan and have actual praetoria just appear as a new island and make it a co op zone or pvp zone for blue and red to freely go to. Remove or replace specific NPCs as needed. and dont fret new arcs etc yet just have it be for pvp/pve interaction and street sweeping for now, but get that beauty of a game space brought into the mainstream world.

Like I said, there's nothing there except TF contacts (and exploration badges). which is why I think moving those contacts somewhere else wouldn't harm the game.

 

It was always Paragon Studios ambition to completely revamp Hazard Zones so they have more content, so too was it their wish to improve red-side so it had more to explore.

 

I don't believe turning Striga into a villain zone is a "terrible idea", since all Hazard Zones seem to be are areas overrun with villains. Transferring Striga's contacts to Boomtown certainly improves upon the new Council narrative, and any mission that takes place in Striga's outdoors can still be played if the mission access point is a vehicle instead of a door.

 

"Old Striga" could still be reached as an Echo just like Galaxy and Astoria, so its not like blue-side actually lose anything in this transaction. All this suggestion does is offer red-side a little more content that wouldn't violate the lore or make any huge changes to the world.

 

In fact, Striga could serve as a really nice playground for fights between the 5th Column and the Council, along with showcasing the newly formed alliance between the Council and Calvin Scott's UPA faction.

 

So I don't think it's a terrible idea at all, and if moving contacts around is so horrifying then I guess we'll just throw everyone who came from Galaxy City back where they came from 😂

Edited January 9, 2020 by Tyrannical

[quixoteprog]

As I said before, I don't know why they even have the distinction between hero and villain zones. Technically everyone can go to any zone any time they want. You just need to stop by Pocket D and get NtG to switch you.

 

If we have to keep the PvP aspect, instead of forbidding someone from entering a zone of the wrong alignment why not just have a zone prompt you, similar to the way you get prompted in coop zones, with a message saying, " in order to enter this zone you must go 'under cover'". The prompt gives you options to switch alignments right there. Similar to what Null the Gull does.

 

Heroes become vigilantes and villains become rogues. When you leave you go back.

 

Problem solved. Everyone can go to everywhere.

[boggo2300]

8 hours ago, Tyrannical said:

Then create an Echo for it like Galaxy and Dark Astoria

so 3 times the work for no extra benefit over creating a new zone?

[Alchemystic]

1 hour ago, boggo2300 said:

so 3 times the work for no extra benefit over creating a new zone?

I don't know how you jumped to that conclusion but feel free to weigh in with a suggestion sometime.

[boggo2300]

1 minute ago, Tyrannical said:

I don't know how you jumped to that conclusion but feel free to weigh in with a suggestion sometime.

read higher up the thread, redesigning a zone (which making an echo counts as) is pretty much as much work as creating a new zone from scratch according to the only people to have done it I have no issue witth new red side zones, I just think trying to nab blue side zones to do it is going to make more work and piss people off, which makes it the wrong way to do it

[Alchemystic]

11 minutes ago, boggo2300 said:

read higher up the thread, redesigning a zone (which making an echo counts as) is pretty much as much work as creating a new zone from scratch according to the only people to have done it I have no issue witth new red side zones, I just think trying to nab blue side zones to do it is going to make more work and piss people off, which makes it the wrong way to do it

Actually creating an Echo is as simple as moving the map from one access point (Ferry/Submarine) to another (Ouroboros) and putting the words 'Echo:' in front of it.

 

And I think more people would appreciate having a ready-made redside zone ready to fill with more content than having a stale old hazard zone that serves no purpose other than a Task Force being present. Besides, losing a hero zone to the villains is good for narrative, it shows some actual conflict and intrigue between both sides, not this static stalemate that's gone on for years.

 

The plan for Hazard Zones was to entirely re-purpose them, not just remodel them, completely change the nature of them. I think one of them becoming a redside area was entirely in the cards.

Edited January 9, 2020 by Tyrannical

[boggo2300]

Just now, Tyrannical said:

Actually creating an Echo is as simple as moving the map from one access point (Ferry/Submarine) to another (Ouroboros) and putting the words 'Echo:' in front of it.

 

And I think more people would appreciate having a ready-made redside zone ready to fill with more content than having a stale old hazard zone that serves no purpose other than a Task Force being present. Besides, losing a hero zone to the villains is good for narrative, it shows some actual conflict and intrigue between both sides, not this static stalemate that's gone on for years.

I'm pretty sure theres more to it than that, but I've never tried to do it, so arguing about it is pointless, and I don't think moving Hazard zones red-side is going to increase interest in red side at all, and it's going to require a lot of work blue side, moving GM spawns, rewriting missions all over the place that send you to said zones to make something that really doesn't gel with the rest of the red side zones.

 

Kinda irrelevant argument anyway, HC don't have the resources to do any of this at the moment, they don't even have the resources to finish KW and that was 80% done before they even got their hands on it

[Alchemystic]

2 minutes ago, boggo2300 said:

I'm pretty sure theres more to it than that, but I've never tried to do it, so arguing about it is pointless, and I don't think moving Hazard zones red-side is going to increase interest in red side at all, and it's going to require a lot of work blue side, moving GM spawns, rewriting missions all over the place that send you to said zones to make something that really doesn't gel with the rest of the red side zones.

 

Kinda irrelevant argument anyway, HC don't have the resources to do any of this at the moment, they don't even have the resources to finish KW and that was 80% done before they even got their hands on it

Yeah, this is all hypothetical stuff anyway for far in the future, but I firmly believe that from a narrative point of view giving Striga over to redside and showcasing the interactions between 5th Column/Council/UDF its a good move. Doubly so if the present Striga material is moved to Boomtown and enhances the content being showcased there too.

[boggo2300]

1 minute ago, Tyrannical said:

Yeah, this is all hypothetical stuff anyway for far in the future, but I firmly believe that from a narrative point of view giving Striga over to redside and showcasing the interactions between 5th Column/Council/UDF its a good move. Doubly so if the present Striga material is moved to Boomtown and enhances the content being showcased there too.

I actually think the other direction would be better narratively, moving the Boomtown content to Striga, which is pretty much the council hub in Paragon, plus with the 5 column/council conflict back it's made the council content in Boom a PITA which needs to be cleaned up, moving it to Striga with it's already full 5th column/counil narrative would work much better than how it is

[Megajoule]

IMO, the issue is not that people don't want to play in (the existing) villain zones, they don't want to play villain content.

(which is too bad, as some of it's very good.)

[boggo2300]

13 hours ago, Force Redux said:

Reworking it into a co-op zone would be much better. Little impact to existing heroes. Opens another zone to villains, and Striga is definitely a great candidate by way of flavor to have Arachnos sink it's claws into.

this actually seems low impact and not a HUGE amount of dev work, just a huge amount if you get my meaning

[boggo2300]

2 minutes ago, Megajoule said:

IMO, the issue is not that people don't want to play in (the existing) villain zones, they don't want to play villain content.

(which is too bad, as some of it's very good.)

this, it's certainly the case for me, my wife and all but one member of my SG

[Force Redux]

Co-op is superior to red or blue only. More options. Less pissing anyone off. Same result.

[boggo2300]

6 minutes ago, Force Redux said:

Co-op is superior to red or blue only. More options. Less pissing anyone off. Same result.

pretty much, which is one of the reasons I think the plan for KW was to make it a Co-op

[Force Redux]

7 minutes ago, boggo2300 said:

pretty much, which is one of the reasons I think the plan for KW was to make it a Co-op

From the layout with Arachnos having reps and an LZ, it sure looks like it 😃🙂

[boggo2300]

3 minutes ago, Force Redux said:

From the layout with Arachnos having reps and an LZ, it sure looks like it 😃🙂

I think it was even stated by Posi in one of his post shutdown interviews, honestly, I wouldn't see anything wrong with turning some of the Hazard zones into co-op zones, I still think taking them and making them villain zones is a bad idea, but for instance a villain incursion into the back of Boomtown could make for some interesting content, maybe villains coming into Faultline through the Arachnos base behind the dam in Fault? still a lot of work, but gives you FAR more scope to make stuff interesting, you aren't removing content from people and you are adding content to red side

[TraumaTrain]

It would be neat to have the blocked off tunnel that links Port Oakes to Cap au Diable be a level 5-15 or so hazard zone. Off the constructed thoroughfare could be a warren of natural tunnels with trolls and human Shaper cultists.

 

Calystix could be in there offering a couple of story arcs that tie into Maros' arc in Sharkhead and the Renault SF.

 

Grendel could be here offering a level 10 SF centered around having his revenge on Atta.