Legendary IO enhancements

[RCU7115]

It sounds a little like lock boxes. No thank you.

What's considered a universal slot ? They can't add anymore slots to powers. They tried to do that from 6 slots to 8 slots and almost broke the game.

 

[Grouchybeast]

9 hours ago, CU_Krow said:

 

Legendary IO idea is more about creating something goal-oriented, challenging, difficult objective to acquire/obtain. "Thrill of the hunt" per say. That's what I was referring to back in terms of the Live analogy. Again, like with another posts concern, Legendary IO is not meant for influence sinkage or for image/popularity/elitist purposes.

 

I don't think there's any way to have something very rare that makes a perceptible contribution to a build and not have it become an elitist thing.

 

At one point on live people would regularly show up in the market forum very upset that they couldn't get hold of a Gladiator's +Def IO for less than the inf cap or, usually, at all.   And that's for 3% defense.  They weren't feeling the thrill of the hunt, they were just annoyed that something they felt that they needed to complete their build was locked out of their reach (by evil markeeters, naturally).  That went on until the devs introduced the myriad merits, converters etc that levelled out the rarity and thus the prices.

 

I would rather see a non-IO based approach to providing goal-oriented challenges.  Like maybe additional accolades, which could be created from a thematic mix of content requirements.  (Bonus -- more badges!)  Introduce a system for selecting a maximum number of active accolades, if necessary, to avoid them becoming overwhelmingly powerful if the numbers were increased.   But, really, anything that avoids going back to the endless complaints about how overpriced some AH item is.

[RCU7115]

20 minutes ago, Grouchybeast said:

I don't think there's any way to have something very rare that makes a perceptible contribution to a build and not have it become an elitist thing.

 

At one point on live people would regularly show up in the market forum very upset that they couldn't get hold of a Gladiator's +Def IO for less than the inf cap or, usually, at all.   And that's for 3% defense.  They weren't feeling the thrill of the hunt, they were just annoyed that something they felt that they needed to complete their build was locked out of their reach (by evil markeeters, naturally).  That went on until the devs introduced the myriad merits, converters etc that levelled out the rarity and thus the prices.

 

I would rather see a non-IO based approach to providing goal-oriented challenges.  Like maybe additional accolades, which could be created from a thematic mix of content requirements.  (Bonus -- more badges!)  Introduce a system for selecting a maximum number of active accolades, if necessary, to avoid them becoming overwhelmingly powerful if the numbers were increased.   But, really, anything that avoids going back to the endless complaints about how overpriced some AH item is.

^^^^

[CU_Krow]

5 hours ago, Razor Cure said:

I think both sides (for and against new IOs) have valid points. Sure, 'no' IOs are expensive..if you play a lot/farm. For a more casual player, 500mil is still a lot. Not to mention how desirable certain ones could be, like a status prot IO.

Obviously we already have Incarnate powers, which are awesome but also functionally identical to another players incarnate powers (besides the color). Instead of simply more enhancments with flat bonus effects (a 10% acc legenendary, when SO many normal sets give acc?) I reckon ones that give special powers could be more fun. Like signature attacks (state's lightning etc), nothing super crazy like Judgement, just decent, flashy, special melee or ranged attacks, that are more fancy than the patron/epic ones.

 

 

I appreciate the feedback, and agree 100% on both sides having valid points. I play a lot, and 500m is still expensive to me. Outside farming, there is no "easy" way to get money in this game. Even with farming, its a time sinker. IOs that give special powers? I appreciate the thoughts into this topic, I'm just not sure if I could get behind an IO giving a signature attack. That just changes the IO system itself lol. Makes it sound more like a different system in-game attempting to be like villain patrons. 

5 hours ago, Haijinx said:

IOs to increase power even more? No

 

IOs to allow you to customize your character more? Sure.

 

Example?  Maybe you never want a slow AS.  There is a proc that kills slow snipes .. so..

 

Maybe you want to not be transparent when in stealth?

 

Maybe you want wings to only appear when you fly.. 

 

That kind of stuff. 

 

 

What's wrong with IOs to increase stats? That's the whole purpose of IOs, that's why they exist. IOs to customize your character more? What you're proposing for is IOs that make changes in one's tailor/costume powers, which entirely changes the purpose behind the design of an IO.

 

3 hours ago, RCU7115 said:

It sounds a little like lock boxes. No thank you.

What's considered a universal slot ? They can't add anymore slots to powers. They tried to do that from 6 slots to 8 slots and almost broke the game.

 

Like lock boxes? Please elaborate.

 

16 minutes ago, Grouchybeast said:

I don't think there's any way to have something very rare that makes a perceptible contribution to a build and not have it become an elitist thing.

 

At one point on live people would regularly show up in the market forum very upset that they couldn't get hold of a Gladiator's +Def IO for less than the inf cap or, usually, at all.   And that's for 3% defense.  They weren't feeling the thrill of the hunt, they were just annoyed that something they felt that they needed to complete their build was locked out of their reach (by evil markeeters, naturally).  That went on until the devs introduced the myriad merits, converters etc that levelled out the rarity and thus the prices.

 

I would rather see a non-IO based approach to providing goal-oriented challenges.  Like maybe additional accolades, which could be created from a thematic mix of content requirements.  (Bonus -- more badges!)  Introduce a system for selecting a maximum number of active accolades, if necessary, to avoid them becoming overwhelmingly powerful if the numbers were increased.   But, really, anything that avoids going back to the endless complaints about how overpriced some AH item is.

 

I have to disagree with your first statement, Grouchy. Just because a game contains elements of very rare, does not mean it becomes elitist thing. Elitism is an attitude which is the fault of the player, not of the item that exists. If you stated that it possibly *increases* elitist attitudes, I would not disagree with you. But even now, one could argue there are players with elitist attitudes, even with Winter IOs or the high-priced Hamis because of how pricey those can be. Regardless this idea is implemented or not, there are always going to be players who display elitist attitudes.

 

For your 2nd paragraph, the matter of the market is subjective. It's impossible to please everyone. There are players even now on the servers that complain of the fluctuation of prices in regards to converters, catalysts and boosters. I see comments on the market frequently on Help chat. My question to that would be these: 1) Did majority of the community feel that way about the Gladiator's +Def IO? 2) Was it a strong enough reaction that it hit the Suggestion forum for it to be changed? 3) Was the purpose of the myriad system solely to appease people disappointed by the high-cost enh, or were more reasons? 

 

For your 3rd paragraph, I understand you're against this idea and want a non-IO based approach to goal-oriented challenges. The thing is, there are tons of non-IO goal-oriented challenges that already exist! Such as Incarnate trial badges, MoTFs/SFs badge runs, Hamis, etc. Even some of the non-trial badges are challenges in of themselves.

[Razor Cure]

42 minutes ago, CU_Krow said:

Like lock boxes? Please elaborate.

I assume he means like Loot Boxes in a heap of other games. Paying (usually real money) for a random chance (like 0.00001%) at some super awesome amazing bit of kit. Which technically we already kinda have in SUper Packs.

[Haijinx]

1 hour ago, CU_Krow said:

What's wrong with IOs to increase stats? That's the whole purpose of IOs, that's why they exist. IOs to customize your character more? What you're proposing for is IOs that make changes in one's tailor/costume powers, which entirely changes the purpose behind the design of an IO.

Power Creep

[Leogunner]

Hmm, a challenging suggestion.

 

Let me just state I'm against incresasing the power curve much further beyond what we have (and in some context, culling some of that power).

 

So what if we had Legendary IOs...but they were exactly like the current purple IOs we have?  The difference is, maybe there is a bonus they have that you have to charge somehow to use (so their advantage would be temporary...maybe like 1 hour)?  Another advantage? Maybe slottable in a slightly more diverse amount of powers?

[Haijinx]

2 minutes ago, Leogunner said:

Hmm, a challenging suggestion.

 

Let me just state I'm against incresasing the power curve much further beyond what we have (and in some context, culling some of that power).

 

So what if we had Legendary IOs...but they were exactly like the current purple IOs we have?  The difference is, maybe there is a bonus they have that you have to charge somehow to use (so their advantage would be temporary...maybe like 1 hour)?  Another advantage? Maybe slottable in a slightly more diverse amount of powers?

Its tricky.  Lets say they added a Legendary Set on par with Purple Sets but in Defense sets 

 

Then someone who has 6 purple sets in their attack powers for example could have another purple set.  

 

 

[Leogunner]

7 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

Its tricky.  Lets say they added a Legendary Set on par with Purple Sets but in Defense sets 

 

Then someone who has 6 purple sets in their attack powers for example could have another purple set.  

 

 

That's why I said they'd be the same as the current purple IOs.  If, for example, you could slot Coercive Persuasion Legendary into a placate power, it just gives the option to slot that set and get its bonuses.  The charged bonus might be that you can also confuse foes with your placate abilities and placate foes with confuse powers.

 

I'm not suggesting create new purple IO sets.

[CU_Krow]

46 minutes ago, Razor Cure said:

I assume he means like Loot Boxes in a heap of other games. Paying (usually real money) for a random chance (like 0.00001%) at some super awesome amazing bit of kit. Which technically we already kinda have in SUper Packs.

Gotcha….if that's what he's referring to, I'm in no way suggesting anything similar to that. I'm not suggesting anything close to loot boxes.

 

19 minutes ago, Leogunner said:

Hmm, a challenging suggestion.

 

Let me just state I'm against incresasing the power curve much further beyond what we have (and in some context, culling some of that power).

 

So what if we had Legendary IOs...but they were exactly like the current purple IOs we have?  The difference is, maybe there is a bonus they have that you have to charge somehow to use (so their advantage would be temporary...maybe like 1 hour)?  Another advantage? Maybe slottable in a slightly more diverse amount of powers?

 

When you say against increasing the power curve, what exactly do you mean? Adding content that would make toons/builds more OP? If so, I'll refer to my original post and couple of my previous responses in which the goal for Legendary IOs is not to do such. Some of the other responses in this thread (mainly those against Legendary IOs) created a suggestion which they would likely agree upon, which is the creation of Legendary IOs but with limitations of 1 per character, the IO being permanently locked once placed, or even Legendary IOs with a +/- attached to it (E.g. +15%, RES but a -15% DEF). Honestly, I'd be in agreement for such limitations, sounds reasonable.

 

Unlike the purple IOs, a suggestion for the Legendary IOs is that it would be single IOs, not sets or contain set bonuses.

Edited January 19, 2020 by CU_Krow

[Megajoule]

Sounds to me like the OP doesn't even care so much about the items in question being powerful as much as being (nearly) unique; they want there to be "haves and have nots", to satisfy those players for whom Chasing The UberShiny, and being one of a single-digit number on the server to possess it (and the accompanying bragging rights), is what draws them to games like this.

 

Personally, I've never been one of those, so aside from the above mildly derisive remarks in their direction, I have no further comment.

Edited January 19, 2020 by Megajoule

[Fortuneteller]

But why though? Your reason for introducing these IO's seems to be

''I remember those days when a VERY RARE IO would pop up on the market, and people would go crazy''
''Trying to be the first to even get the IO before someone else bought it out''

These don't seem like very good reasons to add unnecessary powercreep to the game.

[CU_Krow]

7 hours ago, Megajoule said:

Sounds to me like the OP doesn't even care so much about the items in question being powerful as much as being (nearly) unique; they want there to be "haves and have nots", to satisfy those players for whom Chasing The UberShiny, and being one of a single-digit number on the server to possess it (and the accompanying bragging rights), is what draws them to games like this.

 

Personally, I've never been one of those, so aside from the above mildly derisive remarks in their direction, I have no further comment.

 

You are correct on one thing, I am not as much concerned about them being powerful as them being rare or unique. However, what I view as a thrill of the hunt/goal to work towards; for some reason, you're interpreting as "This guy wants Have and Have Nots" and "Player who wants bragging rights." Basically, you just went a round-about way of calling me an elitist, which makes me aware that you did not read the entire thread, or least not attempt to view my perspective for Legendary IOs. Instead of targeting the OP, you could least make an argument against Legendary IOs, as others have done in this thread.

Edited January 19, 2020 by CU_Krow

[CU_Krow]

6 hours ago, Fortuneteller said:

But why though? Your reason for introducing these IO's seems to be

''I remember those days when a VERY RARE IO would pop up on the market, and people would go crazy''
''Trying to be the first to even get the IO before someone else bought it out''

These don't seem like very good reasons to add unnecessary powercreep to the game.

From my original post, my reason for introducing the IO's can be found in the following statement: "VR's used to give the thrill of accomplishment to obtain due to difficulty of getting ahold of it. That same thrill, while it may still be there on a slight level, is not quite the same. I feel like a harder to obtain, non-p2w enhancement might add a bit of goal-seeking/fun to the game we already love." 
 

I'm not sure how people are pulling power-creeping from that statement. 

Edited January 19, 2020 by CU_Krow

[Fortuneteller]

1 minute ago, CU_Krow said:

From my original post, my reason for introducing the IO's can be found in the following statement: "VR's used to give the thrill of accomplishment to obtain due to difficulty of getting ahold of it. That same thrill, while it may still be there on a slight level, is not quite the same. I feel like a harder to obtain, non-p2w enhancement might add a bit of goal-seeking/fun to the game we already love." 
 

If you can pull apart power-creeping from that statement, please feel free! 

Powercreep would be the very result of these legendary IO's. If it's merely for the feeling of going 'Ooo shiney' then i would disapprove.

[CU_Krow]

6 minutes ago, Fortuneteller said:

Powercreep would be the very result of these legendary IO's. If it's merely for the feeling of going 'Ooo shiney' then i would disapprove.

That's what badges are for, lol. :} I'd consider those to be more shiny than IOs.

 

Like with a couple other responders, we might have to agree to disagree. Just to reiterate, my proposal for Legendary IOs is not for the purpose of making toons OP.

[Fortuneteller]

46 minutes ago, CU_Krow said:

That's what badges are for, lol. :} I'd consider those to be more shiny than IOs.

 

Like with a couple other responders, we might have to agree to disagree. Just to reiterate, my proposal for Legendary IOs is not for the purpose of making toons OP.

I understand you don't want to make toons over-powered, but the bonus's you've given examples of ((+5% def and +5% res) and yes i understand they are just examples) are way overpowered. 😛

Edit: In fact, now that i think of it more. These kinds of IO's, +5% defence for example would allow me on several toons to remove defence giving IO sets in favor of more damage, while still remaining at the soft cap. So, it would simply make my toons more overpowered than they already are.

Edited January 19, 2020 by Fortuneteller

[CU_Krow]

21 minutes ago, Fortuneteller said:

I understand you don't want to make toons over-powered, but the bonus's you've given examples of ((+5% def and +5% res) and yes i understand they are just examples) are way overpowered. 😛

Edit: In fact, now that i think of it more. These kinds of IO's, +5% defence for example would allow me on several toons to remove defence giving IO sets in favor of more damage, while still remaining at the soft cap. So, it would simply make my toons more overpowered than they already are.

Thank you for noting they are just random examples, lol. I'm glad when more people on the opposing camp are actually reading and then taking the time to respond! 😛

 

Couple of the other responders in this thread who were on the opposing camp of Legendary IOs proposed that one of the ways to balance Legendary IOs from being OP was to add a positive/negative component to the IO, such as (Positive in this stat, but a negative in another stat). Other potential ways to balance included 1 Legendary slot per toon, or once the IO was placed, it would be permanently locked, etc.  Others even proposed Legendary IOs that would affect others stats too, maybe those less common. I'm welcome and open to any kind of balancing feedback! 

Edited January 19, 2020 by CU_Krow

[Grouchybeast]

1 hour ago, CU_Krow said:

That's what badges are for, lol. :} I'd consider those to be more shiny than IOs.

 

Like with a couple other responders, we might have to agree to disagree. Just to reiterate, my proposal for Legendary IOs is not for the purpose of making toons OP.

I'm not sure how you pitch an IO so that it's 'powerful enough that demand will make it will cost hundreds of millions on the AH' and at the same time not contribute to power creep.

 

How about we split the difference and have a badge for successfully buying an otherwise-useless item on the AH which will never drop in normal play but will very, very rarely be seeded there by the system for 2 billion inf?

[CU_Krow]

1 minute ago, Grouchybeast said:

I'm not sure how you pitch an IO so that it's 'powerful enough that demand will make it will cost hundreds of millions on the AH' and at the same time not contribute to power creep.

 

How about we split the difference and have a badge for successfully buying an otherwise-useless item on the AH which will never drop in normal play but will very, very rarely be seeded there by the system for 2 billion inf?

 

First, your top statement. So again, we're looking at an IO in rarity and Uniqueness correct? Looking at the current servers, one prime example of this would be the highest-selling IO which is the Hami/Titan/Hydra Travel IO (These sell roughly 50-70m; I can't remember the direct name, but a lot of you know exactly which IOs I'm referring to). Nobody is going to look at those IOs and say "Wow, those are OP!" , because they're not! If anything, they're highly valued for reasons OTHER THAN making a toon more OP.

 

In regards to your 2nd statement, can you please elaborate or provide an example to help me understand where you're coming from?

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

3 hours ago, CU_Krow said:

 

First, your top statement. So again, we're looking at an IO in rarity and Uniqueness correct? Looking at the current servers, one prime example of this would be the highest-selling IO which is the Hami/Titan/Hydra Travel IO (These sell roughly 50-70m; I can't remember the direct name, but a lot of you know exactly which IOs I'm referring to). Nobody is going to look at those IOs and say "Wow, those are OP!" , because they're not! If anything, they're highly valued for reasons OTHER THAN making a toon more OP.

 

In regards to your 2nd statement, can you please elaborate or provide an example to help me understand where you're coming from?

for the first, well I suspect it has more to do with recent returnees not all having been on live after the end of the era of HO exploitation. Ive seen no few since coming to HC that got into the hami raiding, HO buying not being aware the exploit that made using an HO build worthwhile finally was fixed, and flipping out in zone chat etc when the fact was revealed to them.

 

But Ill ask you this, what kind of bonuses do you want to see, that wouldnt equal more power?

 

Also its a super terrible idea to add some kind of upgrade that once taken cant be changed to adapt to future build/power changes made by the devs. So the idea of something one slotted being locked in, just goes against CoHs spirit on just about every level. The only thing locked in is at character creation our power choices.

 

Your building quite the strawman that this has nothing to do with elitism and haves/have nots. That is the very purpose of such chaser systems, to create time sinks, and the desire to chase them for a sense of in game superiority.

 

Ultimately though why? Why do we need this system? Why do we need the devs to spend precious free time on it if its only going to be used by a very small subset of the population? How will this add over all to the general game play experience? Especially when many of us modern minded casual gamers recognize that the sense of pride and accomplishment some take in playing games is actually not seen as something healthy by the mental health community that see them as hand in glove with gaming addiction. The exception being those few actual professional E sport gamer types.

 

What I am saying is, you really have not givena  good reason for this new theoretical system/uber rare drop to even need to be and have in fact given reasons to not do it that you thought good points but in fact are the reasons not to do it. In other words, people who play games to feel a sense of pride and accomplishment do not need to be catered to, but may well be on the path to needing a serious game detox.

[CU_Krow]

16 minutes ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

for the first, well I suspect it has more to do with recent returnees not all having been on live after the end of the era of HO exploitation. Ive seen no few since coming to HC that got into the hami raiding, HO buying not being aware the exploit that made using an HO build worthwhile finally was fixed, and flipping out in zone chat etc when the fact was revealed to them.

 

But Ill ask you this, what kind of bonuses do you want to see, that wouldnt equal more power?

 

Also its a super terrible idea to add some kind of upgrade that once taken cant be changed to adapt to future build/power changes made by the devs. So the idea of something one slotted being locked in, just goes against CoHs spirit on just about every level. The only thing locked in is at character creation our power choices.

 

Your building quite the strawman that this has nothing to do with elitism and haves/have nots. That is the very purpose of such chaser systems, to create time sinks, and the desire to chase them for a sense of in game superiority.

 

Ultimately though why? Why do we need this system? Why do we need the devs to spend precious free time on it if its only going to be used by a very small subset of the population? How will this add over all to the general game play experience? Especially when many of us modern minded casual gamers recognize that the sense of pride and accomplishment some take in playing games is actually not seen as something healthy by the mental health community that see them as hand in glove with gaming addiction. The exception being those few actual professional E sport gamer types.

 

What I am saying is, you really have not givena  good reason for this new theoretical system/uber rare drop to even need to be and have in fact given reasons to not do it that you thought good points but in fact are the reasons not to do it. In other words, people who play games to feel a sense of pride and accomplishment do not need to be catered to, but may well be on the path to needing a serious game detox.

 

""""for the first, well I suspect it has more to do with recent returnees not all having been on live after the end of the era of HO exploitation. Ive seen no few since coming to HC that got into the hami raiding, HO buying not being aware the exploit that made using an HO build worthwhile finally was fixed, and flipping out in zone chat etc when the fact was revealed to them.

 

But Ill ask you this, what kind of bonuses do you want to see, that wouldnt equal more power?

 

Also its a super terrible idea to add some kind of upgrade that once taken cant be changed to adapt to future build/power changes made by the devs. So the idea of something one slotted being locked in, just goes against CoHs spirit on just about every level. The only thing locked in is at character creation our power choices."""""

 

 I disagree on the Hami statement. Those IOs have been consistently around that price even before the influx of players around the holidays.  

 

In regards to your first question, again I must reiterate, Legendary IOs is not a proposal to make toons OP. What kind of bonuses would I want to see? That in itself could be a topic worth discussing, especially when deciding upon appropriate balances. Other players have already made a few suggestions within the first page of this thread. 

 

In regards to the third sentence, that was one of the proposals I was 50/50 on myself, considering that locked-in enhancements is not a current feature in CoH. But just because one proposal for balance of the Legendary IOs is considered not a good idea, does not mean the notion for the creation of Legendary IOs itself is not a good idea. 

 

"""""Your building quite the strawman that this has nothing to do with elitism and haves/have nots. That is the very purpose of such chaser systems, to create time sinks, and the desire to chase them for a sense of in game superiority.""""""

 

Please, explain to me how this proposal of Legendary IOs are "chaser systems."

 

""""Ultimately though why? Why do we need this system? Why do we need the devs to spend precious free time on it if its only going to be used by a very small subset of the population? How will this add over all to the general game play experience? Especially when many of us modern minded casual gamers recognize that the sense of pride and accomplishment some take in playing games is actually not seen as something healthy by the mental health community that see them as hand in glove with gaming addiction. The exception being those few actual professional E sport gamer types."""""" 

 

Going back to my original post, I had written """Now whether you make the argument that Legendary IOs are needed or not is NOT the point, the argument I'm making is that the creation of Legendary IOs would add another fun layer to the game, if it was implemented."""  I'm not saying Legendary IOs are NEEDED. Neither are extra costume pieces or designs. My argument is that Legendary IOs would make a good addition to the system that is already in existence. Why have devs spend time on something used by a very small subset of the population? Ok, I'll give you that. Same argument can be made for Hami IOs or the incarnate system. I know TONS of players who do not have lvl 50s or spend time in the incarnate system. It's an optional end-game content. How come the same argument can't be made for Legendary IOs? As for the mental health argument you're alluding to, good luck going down that route, Bentley. If you truly want to emphasize on that argument, then the whole badge system is toxic to mental health of gamers.

 

What I am saying is, you really have not givena  good reason for this new theoretical system/uber rare drop to even need to be and have in fact given reasons to not do it that you thought good points but in fact are the reasons not to do it. In other words, people who play games to feel a sense of pride and accomplishment do not need to be catered to, but may well be on the path to needing a serious game detox.

 

Here we will have to agree to disagree. Again, as stated above, I never stated this idea was NEEDED. I have given several reasons for the implementation of Legendary IOs as a good addition to the current IO system, which many in this thread have even agreed upon (in addition to cautioning careful implementation/balance, which I 100% agree with). In terms of the mental health argument you're alluding to, again, good luck going down that route. I do not believe you'll make a convincing argument against Legendary IOs based upon "mental health", BUT, I am curious to your argument in regards to the "chaser system" you mentioned. I do hope you'll elaborate more on that point.

[Monos King]

39 minutes ago, CU_Krow said:

I know TONS of players who do not have lvl 50s or spend time in the incarnate system. It's an optional end-game content.

Well, if you're gonna say that about incarnate, you can say that about literally any aspect of the game. It was meant to be the next step post 50 to make your character grander, like epics or even accolades, depending on when you decide to get those. That's confirmed. It's important to have a supple community insight as to the nature of the end game for something like this so you don't get derailed in some tangent discussion.

 

And to succumb to that for a second, I'm also going to full disagree about HOs. I don't know one person who is willingly spending millions or billions on HOs; I know many who spend hours Hamidon raiding for the experience...but no one aware of it's patch sinking cents into it. Which makes sense, because that would be really stupid. It's literally pointless as compared to using inexpensive IOs. If you have information refuting that I'd actually love to know, you can message me. I digress.

 

I could be sold on this. I'm swaying on the fence, because I think IOs are already almighty; the IOs were never meant to be THIS easily accessible. So I think adding things like global +12 res is silly, and if it went that direction I'm opposed. But I also miss when I was noob on live, aspiring to have the long list of set bonuses veterans had and feeling pushed to grind as well as just kill things to have fun.

 

If the legendary grade were completely unique things like perhaps a new accolade attack power or "chance for max recharge for 30 sec, chance for max damage for 15" and it was minor chances for a max stat that was locked in, I think that could be awesome and more balanced. I also think, since for this entirely we are assuming all other IOs are relatively easy to attain, that you must have at least ONE very rare set (yes set not just a proc PvPers, proc based PvP is stupid and I want to do things to discourage it) to slot in legendary, though can be dropped without one and sold if desired.

 

I want to push this, and I think the nature of the buffs that are come up with here will make or break it for the community; more than even the conceptual system that will end up governing it. I'm 51/49.

[EmmySky]

I believe that you are not trying to make characters over-powered.  I will even buy that you are not trying to make a have vs. have-nots situation.

 

However, human nature being what it is, the end result would be both.  To make something desireable enough for people to chase it as an accomplishment, it has to provide a substantial boost, which will make toons MORE over-powered than they are (or have the capacity to be) now.  A substantial boost that is sought after will divide the community into those who have and those who do not.  Like it or not, this tends to create elitist (what I like to call nanny nanny boo boo) attitudes amongst the haves and, most often will trickle into teaming and playing.

 

Many people on this thread have pointed out this exact interplay, we saw it happen on live and  in other games.  Just because you continue to be an optimist and refuse to believe in the dirty underbelly of humanity doesn't make it not so.

 

Bravo on your positive attitude and trying to think outside the box, but in my opinion, we need to leave the 'something to strive for' at what already exists in the game if we cannot come up with a way to avoid both the over-power problem and the inevitable elitist issues.

[CU_Krow]

55 minutes ago, monos1 said:

Well, if you're gonna say that about incarnate, you can say that about literally any aspect of the game. It was meant to be the next step post 50 to make your character grander, like epics or even accolades, depending on when you decide to get those. That's confirmed. It's important to have a supple community insight as to the nature of the end game for something like this so you don't get derailed in some tangent discussion.

 

And to succumb to that for a second, I'm also going to full disagree about HOs. I don't know one person who is willingly spending millions or billions on HOs; I know many who spend hours Hamidon raiding for the experience...but no one aware of it's patch sinking cents into it. Which makes sense, because that would be really stupid. It's literally pointless as compared to using inexpensive IOs. If you have information refuting that I'd actually love to know, you can message me. I digress.

 

I could be sold on this. I'm swaying on the fence, because I think IOs are already almighty; the IOs were never meant to be THIS easily accessible. So I think adding things like global +12 res is silly, and if it went that direction I'm opposed. But I also miss when I was noob on live, aspiring to have the long list of set bonuses veterans had and feeling pushed to grind as well as just kill things to have fun.

 

If the legendary grade were completely unique things like perhaps a new accolade attack power or "chance for max recharge for 30 sec, chance for max damage for 15" and it was minor chances for a max stat that was locked in, I think that could be awesome and more balanced. I also think, since for this entirely we are assuming all other IOs are relatively easy to attain, that you must have at least ONE very rare set (yes set not just a proc PvPers, proc based PvP is stupid and I want to do things to discourage it) to slot in legendary, though can be dropped without one and sold if desired.

 

I want to push this, and I think the nature of the buffs that are come up with here will make or break it for the community; more than even the conceptual system that will end up governing it. I'm 51/49.

 

1st paragraph-No contest. I'm in agreement with you. That's why I'm open to community insight in this thread.  As much as it's nice to have people like the Legendary IO idea, I also enjoy hearing from those in the opposing camp. It helps look at the pros/con, limitations, etc.

 

2nd paragraph- I'm not quite sure what you're disagreeing with. I agree with you on the part of not knowing anyone who spends hoards of inf on just HOs, especially in comparison to IO sets; however, that still does not negate the fact that the top selling enh on the game currently is a HO that does not contribute to a toon being considered OP.

 

3rd paragraph-Ok, and thank you for being honest! By admitting being on the fence, you're stating you see bits in both camps. My question would be, if Global +12 RES doesn't sound reasonable, what kind of Legendary IO would you see as fair? Figuring out the balance of what Legendary IOs consist of would be the upgraded level of this thread, and relates to what many of the other players have mentioned when stating that Legendary IOs would need cautious implementation. 

 

If you do come up with other limitations or pros/cons, please bring them up.  I appreciate your feedback, monos.

 

51 minutes ago, EmmySky said:

I believe that you are not trying to make characters over-powered.  I will even buy that you are not trying to make a have vs. have-nots situation.

 

However, human nature being what it is, the end result would be both.  To make something desireable enough for people to chase it as an accomplishment, it has to provide a substantial boost, which will make toons MORE over-powered than they are (or have the capacity to be) now.  A substantial boost that is sought after will divide the community into those who have and those who do not.  Like it or not, this tends to create elitist (what I like to call nanny nanny boo boo) attitudes amongst the haves and, most often will trickle into teaming and playing.

 

Many people on this thread have pointed out this exact interplay, we saw it happen on live and  in other games.  Just because you continue to be an optimist and refuse to believe in the dirty underbelly of humanity doesn't make it not so.

 

Bravo on your positive attitude and trying to think outside the box, but in my opinion, we need to leave the 'something to strive for' at what already exists in the game if we cannot come up with a way to avoid both the over-power problem and the inevitable elitist issues.

 

Thank you for your feedback, Emmy. In summary, you're stating that the challenge-seeking existence of Legendary IOs in of themselves will draw out humanity's nature for elitism/have-have nots, correct? In all, it's hard to make any prediction for something that has not already happened. I don't play any other MMOs outside City of Heroes, so I can't speak to your comment of what's happened in other games. But you speak of Live ,where exactly was this interplay displayed on in Live, and in regards to what (e.g. what it purple IOs)? Was it a frequent conflict on the forums? In my many years of playing the game, I do not recall IOs being a source of have/have-not or elitist conflict  when I played in-game.

 

lol, I'm not sure where you got the belief that I'm an optimist who refuses to believe in the dirty underbelly of humanity. Please quote me where I even hinted that 😛

And you're stating that the OP and Elitist prediction needs to be dealt with before your consideration of Legendary IOs, correct? I already addressed the OP prediction in my original post and I already responded to the Elitist issue with my response to Grouchy. Not sure what else could be said from my POV in regards to those areas. But again, as I've reiterated to other players, I'm open to suggestions/ideas/feedback!

Edited January 19, 2020 by CU_Krow