Legendary IO enhancements

[CU_Krow]

I'd like to offer the idea of creating a small number of IO's called Legendary IOs. These are different from Rares and Very Rare IOs/sets. Drop way less frequently and are much harder to obtain. This is my argument for the creation of Legendary IOs (possible examples further down)

 

1- Back on Live (and by no means am I trying to recreate the Live experience, I feel like readjusting to Homecoming has been good as-is), I remember those days when a VERY RARE IO would pop up on the market, and people would go crazy trying to either A) Save the money to buy it (some would be 300m+) or B) Trying to be the first to even get the IO before someone else bought it out (they were way less frequent to obtain than  current game). VR's used to give the thrill of accomplishment to obtain due to difficulty of getting ahold of it. That same thrill, while it may still be there on a slight level, is not quite the same. I feel like a harder to obtain, non-p2w enhancement might add a bit of goal-seeking/fun to the game we already love.

 

2-I'm not asking for new sets (though not opposed to it), but least the possibility of single IO enhancements. They can be added into certain slots or spaces where one feels like a whole set is NOT needed. One suggestion I thought of is UNIQUE Legendary IOs that would stretch across the whole toon, similar to Global recharge Gamblers (7.5%).

 

3- I know one opposing argument to the creation of Legendary IOs is "Well, this idea sucks, cause toons are already OP, why make them MORE OP?" I do not necessarily agree with this. And to quell the OP lobbyists, I figure the Legendary IOs could target some of the areas that currently do not have variety of sets/bonuses. For example, more IOs geared towards RES or DEF. Thus, here's a few examples of Legendary IO possibilities:

 

RANDOM EXAMPLE: TYRANT'S IMPENETRABLE ARMOR: (UNIQUE) Grants 5% RES across character's abilities/stats/powers.

RANDOM EXAMPLE: STATEMAN'S AUTHORITY: (UNIQUE) Grants 5% RES across character's abilities/stats/powers.

 

RANDOM EXAMPLE: MYNX'S ACROBATICS (UNIQUE) Grants 5% DEF across character's abilities/stats/powers.

RANDOM EXAMPLE: NEURON'S FLASH (UNIQUE) Grants 5% DEF across character's abilities/stats/powers.

 

I admit, I threw those names in there randomly, but hopefully you get the point. Now whether you make the argument that Legendary IOs are needed or not is NOT the point, the argument I'm making is that the creation of Legendary IOs would add another fun layer to the game, if it was implemented. What are your thoughts?

Edited January 15, 2020 by CU_Krow

[aethereal]

Wait, what?  Defense and Resistance are under-served by existing set bonuses?

[CU_Krow]

On 1/15/2020 at 1:33 PM, aethereal said:

Wait, what?  Defense and Resistance are under-served by existing set bonuses?

I mean, I use Mids all the time, and seems like there's not as much variety set-categories for RES/DEF compared to other IOs. I recognize bonus sets include DEF/RES,my main point is not to deny or argue that. Again, if you reread my original post,  I'm stating Legendary IOs more-so for single IOs. 

 

Also, keep in mind, I'm using RES/DEF for purpose of examples. The point of the topic is the creation of Legendary IOs, not so much RES/DEF IOs.

Edited January 19, 2020 by CU_Krow

[Saiyajinzoningen]

i like this. more legendaries!

 

+10% accuracy

+10% Movement speed

+25% regeneration

+15% Endurance recovery

+10% Recharge Rate (global)

+2      Magnitude status protection

+25% Debuff Resistance

+10% Chance to crit (may only occur once every 30 seconds)

 

[DR_Mechano]

Sorry but this is basically going the way of WoW, we don't need very hard to obtain 'legendary' items that cost an arm and a leg just for the top builds. Besides res/def is ALREADY well suited by four different IOs that basically do exactly what your suggesting. Steadfast protection +3% global defense, Gladiator's Armor +3% to global defense, Gladiator's Shield wall + 3% resistances to all, Reactive defenses +3% resistances to all at full health, scaling higher with low health.

 

I LIKE the fact that there aren't some stupidly expensive IOs that sell for ridiculous sums of money anymore, it makes building the top end achievable to everyone and isn't exclusionary, the best, baddest high end builds are within everyones reach. Top end builds STILL cost 900 million inf or more depending on how many Purple IOs and Winter IOs are required. My current Elec/Shield stalker requires 3 purple sets AND 2 Winter IO sets, you're looking at around 465 million inf on those five sets not including things like ATOs, LotG, PvP IO uniques etc.

 

So yeah that's basically a /jranger from me.

 

Oh and those suggesting +crit chance. You guys do realize that Crit chance is actually baked into Stalker and Scrapper powers not actually a separate thing. You can't just GIVE another AT the ability to crit without having to also bake it in to their powers as well.

Edited January 15, 2020 by DR_Mechano

[Super Atom]

I think the idea of unique procs that don't belong to a set is interesting but it would require a lot of thought and balance. I think if you were going to do them they'd be better off as "Incarnate IO" where it has a negative and a positive, easier to balance makes it more interesting. What your suggesting is a little too much for current coh.

 

if we had incarnate IO's with a neg/positive you could have them drop from incarnate trials.

Edited January 15, 2020 by Super Atom

[Saiyajinzoningen]

24 minutes ago, DR_Mechano said:

Sorry but this is basically going the way of WoW, we don't need very hard to obtain 'legendary' items that cost an arm and a leg just for the top builds. Besides res/def is ALREADY well suited by four different IOs that basically do exactly what your suggesting. Steadfast protection +3% global defense, Gladiator's Armor +3% to global defense, Gladiator's Shield wall + 3% resistances to all, Reactive defenses +3% resistances to all at full health, scaling higher with low health.

 

I LIKE the fact that there aren't some stupidly expensive IOs that sell for ridiculous sums of money anymore, it makes building the top end achievable to everyone and isn't exclusionary, the best, baddest high end builds are within everyones reach. Top end builds STILL cost 900 million inf or more depending on how many Purple IOs and Winter IOs are required. My current Elec/Shield stalker requires 3 purple sets AND 2 Winter IO sets, you're looking at around 465 million inf on those five sets not including things like ATOs, LotG, PvP IO uniques etc.

 

So yeah that's basically a /jranger from me.

 

Oh and those suggesting +crit chance. You guys do realize that Crit chance is actually baked into Stalker and Scrapper powers not actually a separate thing. You can't just GIVE another AT the ability to crit without having to also bake it in to their powers as well.

1. This will probably never happen but one can dream

2. No io is expensive or difficult to get. under the merit system, you can earn enough merits to buy any io in about an hour.

3. Other AT's have crit its just named something else. Containment, scourge, domination. Its not impossible just difficult.

[SeraphimKensai]

Legendary IO: Midas' Touch. +10% influence gain. Slots into Rest.

 

Legendary IO: Debt's Revenge. +10% damage while you have debt. Slots into Rest.

 

Legendary IO: Hoarder's Treasure. -10% requirement for badges requiring a quantity, so for example 500,000 debt needed turns to 450,000 debt, etc. Slots into Rest.

Edited January 16, 2020 by SeraphimKensai

[Yomo Kimyata]

I am 100% for making more content that is truly rare, or hard to acquire.  No one needs IOs at all in order to solo AVs.  Why not allow people to strive for something unique?

[CU_Krow]

1 hour ago, Saiyajinzoningen said:

i like this. more legendaries!

 

+10% accuracy

+10% Movement speed

+25% regeneration

+15% Endurance recovery

+10% Recharge Rate (global)

+2      Magnitude status protection

+25% Debuff Resistance

+10% Chance to crit (may only occur once every 30 seconds)

 

See, the list is almost endless! If this can be back up by the community to figure out good balance/tweaks, it could be a pretty solid number of IOs worth seeking out/trying to obtain.

Edited January 15, 2020 by CU_Krow

[CU_Krow]

54 minutes ago, DR_Mechano said:

Sorry but this is basically going the way of WoW, we don't need very hard to obtain 'legendary' items that cost an arm and a leg just for the top builds. Besides res/def is ALREADY well suited by four different IOs that basically do exactly what your suggesting. Steadfast protection +3% global defense, Gladiator's Armor +3% to global defense, Gladiator's Shield wall + 3% resistances to all, Reactive defenses +3% resistances to all at full health, scaling higher with low health.

 

I LIKE the fact that there aren't some stupidly expensive IOs that sell for ridiculous sums of money anymore, it makes building the top end achievable to everyone and isn't exclusionary, the best, baddest high end builds are within everyones reach. Top end builds STILL cost 900 million inf or more depending on how many Purple IOs and Winter IOs are required. My current Elec/Shield stalker requires 3 purple sets AND 2 Winter IO sets, you're looking at around 465 million inf on those five sets not including things like ATOs, LotG, PvP IO uniques etc.

 

So yeah that's basically a /jranger from me.

 

Oh and those suggesting +crit chance. You guys do realize that Crit chance is actually baked into Stalker and Scrapper powers not actually a separate thing. You can't just GIVE another AT the ability to crit without having to also bake it in to their powers as well.

 

Thank you for your feedback, DR! Yes, RES/DEF does have some awesome UNIQUES in their sets. And I *LOVE* those IOs, and think the game could add a bit of spice by adding similar IOs, but with increased rarity or difficulty obtaining (thus, Legendary IOs).

 

And what you bring to the table is what I believe will be the core argument for Legendary IOS, being this:  1) Be satisfied with IOs/Bonuses that is widespread and easily obtainable to EVERYONE OR 2) Have a SMALL set of UNIQUE IOs with high difficulty to obtain being unleashed into the game that gives it an extra thrill/challenge/goal for players to acquire. When creating this topic, I knew for a fact that there would be players on both sides of the fence, I'm just willing to push/fight for #2 as outlined in the reasons from my initial post.

Edited January 15, 2020 by CU_Krow

[DR_Mechano]

Yeah this is going to be something that we're going to have to agree to disagree on. I personally feel like such things would be better moved into the Incarnate system if and when that comes around to being expanded by the dev team. The problem is, with something like this, you end up creating have and have nots. Look at WoW for example, what's that, you're iLevel is a few points below what has been deemed required (even though it's massively over the level of what is ACTUALLY required) that, well looks like you're not running this content. It has vastly colored my perception of anything like this.

 

The joy of CoH for me has always been that it doesn't go into all that, especially now with HC and the Incarnate stuff changes. The question I have is why do you need this? Is it to have a sense of superiority over other people who haven't got that? If that's the case then it serves no purpose other than waving your e-peen in peoples faces.

 

I'm all for challenging content but I'm of the opinion that challenging content should be something the player decides, like, for example the Speed Run TF people or the Solo TF people, they're doing challenging content that they've chosen to do because that is their drive, not because it was required to get some legendary enhancement that gives you more res/def.

 

One of the ways I would get behind this was if you were limited to ONE of these and it went into a universal slot. Kind of like Incarnate powers.

Edited January 15, 2020 by DR_Mechano

[Lines]

I was very much a perpetual 'have-not' on live. I was never barred from content, just a little slow. The easy availability of enhancements is a feature of Homecoming, not City of Heroes.

 

I think this could be neat, but requires extremely cautious implementation.

[Saiyajinzoningen]

theres lots of ways this could be balanced

 

These legendaries can only be placed in Rest or other passive powers.

These legendaries cannot be traded they are character bound

A new legendary io is unlocked for every 100 badges earned on a character

These legendaries cannot be boosted

 

stuff like that just saying

[CU_Krow]

20 minutes ago, DR_Mechano said:

Yeah this is going to be something that we're going to have to agree to disagree on. I personally feel like such things would be better moved into the Incarnate system if and when that comes around to being expanded by the dev team. The problem is, with something like this, you end up creating have and have nots. Look at WoW for example, what's that, you're iLevel is a few points below what has been deemed required (even though it's massively over the level of what is ACTUALLY required) that, well looks like you're not running this content. It has vastly colored my perception of anything like this.

 

The joy of CoH for me has always been that it doesn't go into all that, especially now with HC and the Incarnate stuff changes. The question I have is why do you need this? Is it to have a sense of superiority over other people who haven't got that? If that's the case then it serves no purpose other than waving your e-peen in peoples faces.

 

I'm all for challenging content but I'm of the opinion that challenging content should be something the player decides, like, for example the Speed Run TF people or the Solo TF people, they're doing challenging content that they've chosen to do because that is their drive, not because it was required to get some legendary enhancement that gives you more res/def.

 

One of the ways I would get behind this was if you were limited to ONE of these and it went into a universal slot. Kind of like Incarnate powers.

 

Yes, definitely agree to disagree. :}

 

As for your very last comment, hey, that is not a bad idea and one that should be considered! Universal slot and 1 per toon, that sounds like something both people on the fence could agree on and something to consider when looking at balancing this new idea. 

[CU_Krow]

25 minutes ago, Lines said:

I was very much a perpetual 'have-not' on live. I was never barred from content, just a little slow. The easy availability of enhancements is a feature of Homecoming, not City of Heroes.

 

I think this could be neat, but requires extremely cautious implementation.

I 100% agree. I was one of those "Have-nots" too, or least in the middle range. My main was a stalker and I remember it took me least 1-2 months before I could afford 1 VR (I remember it being a Hecatomb). Legendary enhancements were never my idea for there to be an small pool of players finding another way to show off elitist attitudes (those players can go ****** off), but again, something challenging to acquire. And yes, agreed on the extreme cautious implementation.

 

14 minutes ago, Saiyajinzoningen said:

theres lots of ways this could be balanced

 

These legendaries can only be placed in Rest or other passive powers.

These legendaries cannot be traded they are character bound

A new legendary io is unlocked for every 100 badges earned on a character

These legendaries cannot be boosted

 

stuff like that just saying

I did not even think about the Rest or other passive powers option (I know for me, I don't bother with those, I leave them blank). To have something extraordinary to be able to put into those slots would be pretty awesome. As for the Legendary IOs, I would want to argue about the character bound. IOs have never been character-only items, unlike respecs/free costumes/incarnate salvage. And agree on the cannot be boosted, similar to a Hami IO, Titan, etc.

Edited January 15, 2020 by CU_Krow

[CU_Krow]

Anyone else from the community have any thoughts/comments? Seems like least 75% of responses to this suggestion is positive, in addition to the suggestion of careful implementation. Before I place it on some type of community poll, I'm hoping to hear bit more feedback from the community. I doubt GMs will  give this topic any thought based off a 15 reply-thread.

[Galaxy Brain]

I think it could be cool if these were super powerful, super rare, and ultra-unique. Like, what if you could get a "Statemans Resistance" that is a golden IO that gives +12% res to all. This takes up a slot somewhere in your build, and slotting it means you cannot slot any other golden enhancements.  

 

I like the idea of the legendaries being a truly unique IO per character where you can only choose one to use. This could help balance then out a bit if they're not only global effects but restricted to one per chatacter. 

 

Another idea that is kinda out there... what if it took more than 1 enhancement slot to equip these?

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

While I do feel the game is in dire need of more influence sinks, I do not feel the above is the answer but rather the outcome of people having too much and wanting something truly uber to spend it on. I dont feel this issue myself because I always have more alts ready to sink my funds into, but I have been meeting more in game who only play a single character and are amassing truly vast sums with nothing to spend it on.

 

People use the word unique sometimes in this thread. This makes me think back to the days of P&P RPGs and even MUDs were actual unique 1 of a kind items existed. Because that is what both builders and gamers have in common, the dream of being the first with something, to do something. I recall on an MMO  Vanguard a saga of heroes, that the first time a crafter made an item using stats of a given combo they would be noted as the first to have ever made that in the server. That when you crafted things your toon name was listed as maker. These allowed in game reputation, and made trying even junkier stat mixes something worth trying. I recall about a year in becoming the first in the server to makea  low end short sword when i was just ranking up that toons smithing. Small things like that added to an otherwise lackluster MMO.

 

So maybe what we need is something more then a rare drop. However the ideas that come to mind all seem like likely a lot of work for a volunteer dev team and hence why I am not sure any of this is really needed.

 

We have threads demanding broad sweeping nerfs, and and threads wanting broad sweeping buffs and other major changes. Even one of the above suggestions in this thread could have a cascading impact on builds and cause unexpected exploits. While I dont think we cant progress I dont feel any ideas like this rank anywhere near the top of what needs to be worked on dev wise.

 

So I say put this on the backburner, ponder it a few months, and really crunch some numbers before putting it back out here for discussion.

[Grouchybeast]

If for whatever reason you want to recreate the live experience of purples and PVP IOs being so expensive that the desirable sets went for hundreds of millions per piece and were sometimes completely unavailable, there's no need to ask the devs to create an entire new IO system.  All they'd need to do is some combination of lowering the drop rate, greatly increasing the merit cost/remove them from merit vendors. and excluding them from the Enhancement Converter system.  There you are, sense of rarity restored.

[CU_Krow]

53 minutes ago, Galaxy Brain said:

I think it could be cool if these were super powerful, super rare, and ultra-unique. Like, what if you could get a "Statemans Resistance" that is a golden IO that gives +12% res to all. This takes up a slot somewhere in your build, and slotting it means you cannot slot any other golden enhancements.  

 

I like the idea of the legendaries being a truly unique IO per character where you can only choose one to use. This could help balance then out a bit if they're not only global effects but restricted to one per chatacter. 

 

Another idea that is kinda out there... what if it took more than 1 enhancement slot to equip these?

 

Golden slots, 1 Legendary per toon use, more than 1 enh slot to equip. I like these ideas, because they're more variations to "balance" this idea out, as was outlined as one of the major concerns from other posts in this thread.

52 minutes ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

While I do feel the game is in dire need of more influence sinks, I do not feel the above is the answer but rather the outcome of people having too much and wanting something truly uber to spend it on. I dont feel this issue myself because I always have more alts ready to sink my funds into, but I have been meeting more in game who only play a single character and are amassing truly vast sums with nothing to spend it on.

 

People use the word unique sometimes in this thread. This makes me think back to the days of P&P RPGs and even MUDs were actual unique 1 of a kind items existed. Because that is what both builders and gamers have in common, the dream of being the first with something, to do something. I recall on an MMO  Vanguard a saga of heroes, that the first time a crafter made an item using stats of a given combo they would be noted as the first to have ever made that in the server. That when you crafted things your toon name was listed as maker. These allowed in game reputation, and made trying even junkier stat mixes something worth trying. I recall about a year in becoming the first in the server to makea  low end short sword when i was just ranking up that toons smithing. Small things like that added to an otherwise lackluster MMO.

 

So maybe what we need is something more then a rare drop. However the ideas that come to mind all seem like likely a lot of work for a volunteer dev team and hence why I am not sure any of this is really needed.

 

We have threads demanding broad sweeping nerfs, and and threads wanting broad sweeping buffs and other major changes. Even one of the above suggestions in this thread could have a cascading impact on builds and cause unexpected exploits. While I dont think we cant progress I dont feel any ideas like this rank anywhere near the top of what needs to be worked on dev wise.

 

So I say put this on the backburner, ponder it a few months, and really crunch some numbers before putting it back out here for discussion.

 

Just to reiterate, this thread topic is not emphasized for the purpose of "influence sinks." If influence sinking was a focus, I could think of numerous other ways outside of Legendary IOs. Such as AE edits, or others similar to what the Devs did with seeding. Legendary IO idea is more about creating something goal-oriented, challenging, difficult objective to acquire/obtain. "Thrill of the hunt" per say. That's what I was referring to back in terms of the Live analogy. Again, like with another posts concern, Legendary IO is not meant for influence sinkage or for image/popularity/elitist purposes.

47 minutes ago, Grouchybeast said:

If for whatever reason you want to recreate the live experience of purples and PVP IOs being so expensive that the desirable sets went for hundreds of millions per piece and were sometimes completely unavailable, there's no need to ask the devs to create an entire new IO system.  All they'd need to do is some combination of lowering the drop rate, greatly increasing the merit cost/remove them from merit vendors. and excluding them from the Enhancement Converter system.  There you are, sense of rarity restored.

I get where you're coming from and I know the work this will take on the part of the Devs. I understand this is something that will NOT be prioritized and become implemented within the next 1-2 months.....but least an idea thrown out there. Couple things, 1) I'm not proposing for an entirely new IO system, if anything, an addition to the current IO system. And 2) Lowering the drop rate, increasing/removing the merit cost from vendors, or excluding them from the Enh Converting system are all at this point highly risky (least in my eyes), because of the potential storm is would cause to the current player base. I do not believe the CoH community would be in agreement of huge changes to the P2W system, especially when it comes to VRs/ATOs. That could cause possible loss of the community or people switching from Homecoming to different servers. I could be wrong tho!

 

Now if you're proposing small/light changes to the P2W/drop-rate.....I could imagine the community adjusting.

Edited January 18, 2020 by CU_Krow

[Parabola]

We've got a ton of IO sets in the game that no one uses because the bonuses are not considered worthwhile. At the same time we (I am among those that argue) have an overperformance problem due in large part to the power of the top end IO sets. I think we should be looking at what we have and tweaking that before adding any further complexity and power into the system.

 

That said if we really have to have some new unique top end enhancements it might be fun to consider packaging them with built in debuffs to balance things out. +x% res all with -y% def all for example (or -to hit, - damage, etc.)

[CU_Krow]

9 minutes ago, parabola said:

We've got a ton of IO sets in the game that no one uses because the bonuses are not considered worthwhile. At the same time we (I am among those that argue) have an overperformance problem due in large part to the power of the top end IO sets. I think we should be looking at what we have and tweaking that before adding any further complexity and power into the system.

 

That said if we really have to have some new unique top end enhancements it might be fun to consider packaging them with built in debuffs to balance things out. +x% res all with -y% def all for example (or -to hit, - damage, etc.)

 

I believe your top message is speaking to something that unique to Homecoming. In Live, those current "not considered worthwhile" IOs were used because they were definitely affordable and early-access use. Players used those until they could afford the higher tier IOs :} Even then, I know myself included, I will often look at some unpopular sets and buy them instead of higher lvl IOs just due to the type of build I'm basing my toon on. Especially those who use mids and like to crunch numbers, I notice those players will tend to consider some of the unpopular IOs instead of the players who go the "OMG, I need all Purple/Orange on my toon" method.

 

And the +/- idea is a good idea and I think was brought up by another player in this thread, as it was an idea brought up from the other side of the fence as one of the "I'm against this idea, but if this was implemented I'd be more agreeable", etc

[Razor Cure]

I think both sides (for and against new IOs) have valid points. Sure, 'no' IOs are expensive..if you play a lot/farm. For a more casual player, 500mil is still a lot. Not to mention how desirable certain ones could be, like a status prot IO.

Obviously we already have Incarnate powers, which are awesome but also functionally identical to another players incarnate powers (besides the color). Instead of simply more enhancments with flat bonus effects (a 10% acc legenendary, when SO many normal sets give acc?) I reckon ones that give special powers could be more fun. Like signature attacks (state's lightning etc), nothing super crazy like Judgement, just decent, flashy, special melee or ranged attacks, that are more fancy than the patron/epic ones.

 

[Haijinx]

IOs to increase power even more? No

 

IOs to allow you to customize your character more? Sure.

 

Example?  Maybe you never want a slow AS.  There is a proc that kills slow snipes .. so..

 

Maybe you want to not be transparent when in stealth?

 

Maybe you want wings to only appear when you fly.. 

 

That kind of stuff. 

 

 

Edited January 18, 2020 by Haijinx