Efficiency Expert (failed) added to Ouroboros

[Spider]

This suggestion, of adding Pither's arc to Ouroboros,  was made before under a different set of circumstances.  My understanding of the previous request was that the contact (Pither) had not *yet* been obtained, and that a player had mistakenly believed this prevented their ability to obtain the Efficiency Expert badge.

 

• Confirmed: if Mr. Pither (badge-granting contact) is not introduced throughout one's travel, players can always run enough paper missions from level 50 Grandville contact: Wiggy the Brit to unlock Pither.  
• Also confirmed: Wiggy, however, will not re-grant access to Pither once the arc is completed. 

 

Which brings it back to the original suggestion due to a repeatedly questioned scenario: how to obtain Pither once his arc is completed, done, over, fini. I have never known anyone to obtain the badge on someone else's arc. 

 

Like many, I played on the live servers through sunset and spent a great deal of time with the badge community there. During those years, one of the greatest nailbiting moments for badge hunters was the journey through Pither's arc with held breath - in fear of all manner of badge-ending scenarios such as storm outage, cat crisis, and child/spouse/demon/parent-agro.  

 

We always puzzled over its omission in Ouroboros because of the inherent nature of the flashback system. And while I have considered the possibility that this was intended so as to provide a challenge, I cannot agree that fear of live-world incidents is a proper "challenge". 

 

Though now, the concern is also for the morale of a small community. In "live", badge-hunters were mostly aware of the heavy consequence of this arc's interruption. We have many players entirely new to City of Heroes. And while the badge hunting community has always been small, it has also always been very passionate. So many new to the game. So many new to the activity of badging. So much to learn! And we do our best to assist. But for those who come to the end of their original goal, and find an unobtainable challenge, there is no relief outside of selecting a new character. That does not seem like a morale-boosting option.

 

And this recent exchange left me with a heavy heart on the matter (and yes, I'm a sap, but I spent a great deal of time tending to our niche community): "I dont want to , but i might have to redo all badges on  another toon :frowning:", "few month back i did not knew about this specific badge... in my mind everythign was ouro'able.... so i just helped friends getting xp , doing arcs... so ppl dont just do AE farm", "I would not mind so much redoing all badges, if not for HAloween and winter i only did on 1 toon". This individual, incidentally, plays daily ... hosting a great deal of teams for other players in public channels. He is generous in his time, inclusive, and fair.

 

It may seem like a small thing but it's still a thing for us.  I'd like to ask if there is any possibility of adding Pither's badge challenge to Ouroboros once more. Thank you.  -S

Edited January 19, 2020 by Spider
Clarity, misspelling, donuts

[CU_Krow]

6 hours ago, Spider said:

This suggestion, of adding Pither's arc to Ouroboros,  was made before under a different set of circumstances.  My understanding of the previous request was that the contact (Pither) had not *yet* been obtained, and that a player had mistakenly believed this prevented their ability to obtain the Efficiency Expert badge.

 

• Confirmed: if Mr. Pither (badge-granting contact) is not introduced throughout one's travel, players can always run enough paper missions from level 50 Grandville contact: Wiggy the Brit to unlock the initial introduction to Pither and his arc.  
• Also confirmed: Wiggy, however, will not re-grant access to Pither once the arc is completed. 

 

Which brings it back to the original suggestion due to a repeatedly questioned scenario: how to obtain Pither once his arc is completed, done, over, fini. I have never known anyone to obtain the badge on someone else's arc. 

 

Like many, I played on the live servers through sunset and spent a great deal of time with the badge community there. During those years, one of the greatest nailbiting moments for badge hunters was the journey through Pither's arc with held breath - in fear of all manner of badge-ending scenarios such as storm outage, cat crisis, and child/spouse/demon/parent-agro.  

 

We always puzzled over its omission in Ouroboros because of the inherent nature of the flashback system. And while I have considered the possibility that this was intended so as to provide a challenge, I cannot agree that fear of live-world incidents is a proper "challenge". 

 

Thought now, the concern is also for the morale of a small community. In "live", badge-hunters were mostly aware of the heavy consequence of this arc's interruption. We have many players entirely new to City of Heroes. And while the badge hunting community has always been small, it has also always been very passionate. So many new to the game. So many new to the activity of badging. So much to learn! And we do our best to assist. But for those who come to the end of their original goal, and find an unobtainable challenge, there is no relief outside of selecting a new character. That does not seem like a morale-boosting option.

 

And this recent exchange left me with a heavy heart on the matter (and yes, I'm a sap, but I spent a great deal of time tending to our niche community): "I dont want to , but i might have to redo all badges on  another toon :frowning:", "few month back i did not knew about this specific badge... in my mind everythign was ouro'able.... so i just helped friends getting xp , doing arcs... so ppl dont just do AE farm", "I would not mind so much redoing all badges, if not for HAloween and winter i only did on 1 toon". This individual, incidentally, plays daily ... hosting a great deal of teams for other players in public channels. He is generous in his time, inclusive, and fair.

 

It may seem like a small thing but it's still a thing for us.  I'd like to ask if there is any possibility of adding Pither's badge challenge to Ouroboros once more. Thank you.  -S

 

 

In summary, you're asking that Pither's mission arc to acquire a certain badge be added to Ouroboros? Considering that pretty much 98% of mission-acquired badges are already included in Ouroboros, I don't see why not.  I can't see how one could possibly argue a solid reason for this arc NOT to be added to Ouroboros. To me, it's just a matter of a Dev willing to put the effort/time to adding it to Ouroboros.

[Spider]

In a nutshell. But in a gently suggested nutshell so as not to illicit ire of programming gods which can strike me down level-less and muted. Yes. 

[DR_Mechano]

Yup, no objections to this at all, sounds good.

[MTeague]

Given that every other badge is Ouro-able, or has some other equivalent thing like Villian Disruptor to go and get Safeguards you missed, I can't think of any reason this one arc should be held sacred and special. 

 

If it would really offend the sensibilities of the devs (and I doubt it would, they enjoy this game too....), but if for some reason there was concern over "watering it down", "making it worthless"....maybe something like scale everything to 44 force exemp to 44 so you *have* to do it without Incarnate powers?  Because that seems like it would ramp up the challenge a fair bit, while still allowing people to take another spin on the wheel later if they lost power or real life exploded in their lap in the middle of a mission.

[Lines]

My guess would be it isn't included because it isn't in itself an arc. The badge is awarded for a series of loose missions. At least as I understand it.

 

The missions could be tied together into an arc (even though there is no story connecting them) and the badge awarded for the arc's completion. The big change would be that the missions would no longer be granted in a random order. Can't see that being an issue.

[Itikar]

Totally agree. Thumbs up! :)

[DragonCommando]

What Lines said, about the missions not being an arc, makes sense. However, even if the missions are not an arc, I think they could be added individually, as missions. Like the blue side missions "Rescue the Mystic from the Circle of Thorns" (needed for the Spelunker badge) or "Vahzilok Wasting Disease" (needed for the Plague Stopper Badge). Thus, I agree with Spider request.

Edited January 22, 2020 by DragonCommando

[Zepp]

Could be a single mission "arc", of which there are already a couple examples on Ouro...

[TivoManiac]

Where the heck is Wiggy The Brit?  Wiki says he should be in Grandville at 289, -391.5, 1410 but that's about 290 years east of the East Ward - Beach Lift. And it's up in the air above ground.

[TivoManiac]

Found him.  He's really at 2888, -391.5, 1405.5 in case anyone else is looking.

[carroto]

My understanding back on live was that it was intentional that it wasn't in Ouro because that would defeat the whole point of the badge.  However I do remember the stress over my connection dropping once I'd accepted one of those missions, and I still remember seeing an unexpected admin message that the servers were going down while I was working on one of them.  I appreciate and agree with the intent behind the original decision not to put them in Ouro, but having to re-roll a character at or near max level due to circumstances beyond one's control is just a bit much.

 

Yes I know that no one "has to", but for serious badgers, yes they would certainly feel the character would be forever incomplete.