Fixing Martial Arts

[ZacKing]

15 hours ago, Bossk_Hogg said:

I have, seeing as its my scrapper's most used attack. It makes just as much sense as a single target attack. Moreover, the secondary animation straight up doesnt work as an AE.

 

Its the best DPS in the set, there's no good reason to turn it into a shit DPA 30 degree cone or whatever nonsense it would end up as. You don't completely redesign something that works. Again, change Thunder Kick, that's the one that sucks. 

Dude it's a spinning friggin kick. it Looks way more like something that would hit multiple targets.    making it a cone or even another AoE doesn't break it at all.  it makes it even better. 

[Redlynne]

1 hour ago, ZacKing said:

making it a cone or even another AoE doesn't break it at all.  it makes it even better.

... assuming you don't put any PPM procs in it ...

 

/em significant look

[siolfir]

 

22 minutes ago, Redlynne said:

1 hour ago, ZacKing said:

Dude it's a spinning friggin kick. it Looks way more like something that would hit multiple targets.    making it a cone or even another AoE doesn't break it at all.  it makes it even better. 

 

... assuming you don't put any PPM procs in it ...

 

/em significant look

... or use it from Hide.

[aethereal]

So here's an idea for how to make MA a little better and have its own thing.  Yes, it's a light combo system.

 

Design Goals:

 

A lot of the draw of MA is that the animations are both quite unique in CoH (hardly any other melee sets have any kicks at all (StJ has two)) and also in my opinion, quite pretty.  We would like to incentivize people to use those attacks -- this is particularly relevant since MA has a lot of single-target attacks and in the natural environment of CoH, high performance tends to mean building a short attack chain that never uses some of MA's six (!) single-target attacks.

 

We would like MA to have its own unique mechanic, that is not a clone of how any other set works.

 

We would also like this not to heavily compromise the current simplicity of the set.  We want to make it a mechanic that you can use pretty easily and fluidly.

 

We'd like to give MA a modest power-up.  It's not a terrible performer, but it's not a top performer either.

 

Proposal:

 

Each attack in MA grants a separate short-lived (maybe 10 seconds) status effect to the caster.  The status effect is non-stacking, so you can get the Thunder Kick and the Cobra Strike statuses, but not 2x the Thunder Kick one.

 

Most of the status effects do nothing in and of themselves.  Some of them maybe do a very minor buff, like give you some immobilize or knockback resistance.

 

Focus Chi (aka Build Up) consumes all of these status effects.  If it is triggered by itself, with no status effects, it's a normal Build Up.  For each separate status it consumes, its damage bonus increases probably 5% (maybe up to 10% if this seems undertuned) and its duration increases...  1 second?  1.5 seconds?  Somewhere in there.

 

(Stalkers, with their drastically increased uptime for BU, may need lower values than other ATs).

 

And that's it!

 

Effects:

 

There are 7 different attacks in MA.  I don't think you can animate them all in under 10 seconds, so let's say that a reasonable person could get 5 buffs, meaning that their build-up gives +105% (or up to 130% if testing indicates that 105% is too low) damage for 15 seconds (or up to 17.5 seconds based on tuning) instead of +80% damage for 10 seconds.  That's a big chunk more damage.

 

It's a straight buff of the set.  If you're happy with MA the way it is today, then you can continue to play MA the way it is today and you will occasionally see mildly better values out of Build Up.  You don't need to engage with the system unless what's keeping you away from MA today is its performance.  As a result, the simplicity of MA isn't particularly compromised.  The very most complexity that anyone would engage with is "use Focus Chi after you attack several times."

 

At the same time, it doesn't add more AoE and the extra damage is limited to Focus Chi's uptime.  It's hard for me to imagine that this would be so good that it would be overpowered and shift the meta.  Maybe Stalkers would require somewhat lower numbers, though this is a set with literally zero AoE, so it's kind of hard to see that as a terribly serious risk.

Edited January 23, 2020 by aethereal
Typo removal

[Bossk_Hogg]

6 hours ago, ZacKing said:

Dude it's a spinning friggin kick. it Looks way more like something that would hit multiple targets.    making it a cone or even another AoE doesn't break it at all.  it makes it even better. 

It's a spinning kick with one clear contact point. Also from a physics standpoint, you wouldnt hit multiple targets anyways. It is ALSO a gut punch. Check out the alt animation and tell me that makes sense as an AE attack. 

 

Making it a cone would lower its damage, up its endurance and change its recharge, etc. No thanks, I'll keep the best attack in the set as is.

[Galaxy Brain]

Something that was brought up was motion... I wonder if the game can track various motion states and make powers behave differently based on them? 

 

Not necessarily for MA, but itd be fun if like running at an opponent then using a power, or jumping and activating a power, could trigger different effect.

[ZacKing]

On ‎1‎/‎23‎/‎2020 at 4:36 PM, Bossk_Hogg said:

It's a spinning kick with one clear contact point. Also from a physics standpoint, you wouldnt hit multiple targets anyways.

Yeah spin your leg around in a crowd and see how many people you hit.  Golden Dragonfly can hit more than one target too.  the gut punch animation excuse doesn't wash either.  It can be a Bruce Lee 1 inch type punch that can go through multiple bad guys.

Edited January 27, 2020 by ZacKing

[WindDemon21]

3 minutes ago, ZacKing said:

Yeah spin your leg around in a crowd and see how many people you hit.

With super powers? I'm sure I could follow through a couple people like that. Not that it might be 100% accurate but I've seen it in movies for people that were supposed to be "normal".

[Galaxy Brain]

55 minutes ago, ZacKing said:

Yeah spin your leg around in a crowd and see how many people you hit.  Golden Dragonfly can hit more than one target too.  the gut punch animation excuse doesn't wash either.  It can be a Bruce Lee 1 inch type punch that can go through multiple bad guys.

Do it while also using healing flames 😉

 

Rule of cool applies here when it comes to the animations. 

[ZacKing]

5 hours ago, Galaxy Brain said:

Do it while also using healing flames 😉

 

Rule of cool applies here when it comes to the animations. 

Well my rule of cool says it would be cool to have it as a cone or better yet a second AOE

[Galaxy Brain]

May have misread on my end, thought you were saying it wouldnt be a cone given the "try it yourself" example 😛

[Outrider_01]

On 1/22/2020 at 9:48 AM, Galaxy Brain said:

@Outrider_01, look at my melee thread for why TW is better, and how WM is better.

 

Also, GFS sucks, FM has much better attacks in the same set than it's T9 for damage.

Sorry, didn't see this.  I was plugging as a joke  for MA at how awesome the animations and weapon "draw" of a shoe.

[Exilicus1]

It seems Eagle's Claw is not provided damage bonus on my brute. Anyone confirm this?

[oedipus_tex]

On 1/23/2020 at 3:38 PM, Galaxy Brain said:

Something that was brought up was motion... I wonder if the game can track various motion states and make powers behave differently based on them? 

 

Not necessarily for MA, but itd be fun if like running at an opponent then using a power, or jumping and activating a power, could trigger different effect.

 

 

Why do I have this image of a Mucha Lucha body slam. 

 

[nihilii]

On 1/22/2020 at 9:42 PM, Williwaw said:

I just wish Eagle's Claw did more damage (even though I know that'd increase its recharge).  How much more damage?  This much more damage.

 

Late to the party, but this is me as well. Stalker Eagle's Claw does higher damage with higher recharge. Coupled with guaranteed crits, it feels great and a must have in your attack chain. There's something wrong when your T9 is a skippable power.

 

The whole EC boosting your crit chance for a millisecond never sat well with me. I just leaped in the air and kicked that malta sapper, now let me crit for extra damage!! Except, uh, I just murdered the hell out of this guy's face arrested the perp, so now I'm tabbing for another target and my crit bonus is gone. At the very least we should retain the crit boost until the next hit.

 

IMHO, EC looks awesome enough it *deserves* to have its recharge raised to 20s on all versions, and damage adjusted upwards in proportion. There's so many ST attacks in MA you're not going to find gaps in your attack chain even on SOs, unless you skip Thunder Kick.

[Uun]

9 hours ago, nihilii said:

The whole EC boosting your crit chance for a millisecond never sat well with me. I just leaped in the air and kicked that malta sapper, now let me crit for extra damage!! Except, uh, I just murdered the hell out of this guy's face arrested the perp, so now I'm tabbing for another target and my crit bonus is gone. At the very least we should retain the crit boost until the next hit.

Assuming the info on City of Data is still correct, the EC crit chance buff lasts 2 seconds after a 1.2 second delay. That's a really small window. In contrast, the damage buff that tanks get on EC lasts 3 seconds after a 2.5 second delay. Presumably, there should be parity between the two.

[Exilicus1]

13 hours ago, Uun said:

Assuming the info on City of Data is still correct, the EC crit chance buff lasts 2 seconds after a 1.2 second delay. That's a really small window. In contrast, the damage buff that tanks get on EC lasts 3 seconds after a 2.5 second delay. Presumably, there should be parity between the two.

I have not been noticing the damage buff on my brute. Maybe I am just not seeing it.

[Shadowsleuth]

On 1/23/2020 at 4:36 PM, Bossk_Hogg said:

It is ALSO a gut punch. Check out the alt animation and tell me that makes sense as an AE attack.

Can the alt animation gut punch be changed to something like this instead of a gut punch?

 

Edited February 21, 2020 by Shadowsleuth

[warlyx]

another attack as aoe would be welcomed the teleport suggestion is awesome too.

[Aracknight]

On ‎1‎/‎22‎/‎2020 at 11:30 AM, Aracknight said:

Can't say I'd be sad if Storm Kick got the same defense bonus Tanks got (Or Parry in Broadsword, for a direct scrapper analogue).  I'd also not mind it if they turned Storm Kick into a small cone that could hit, lets say up to 3 mobs at once if you line it up just so (also like Slice in Broadsword).

 

I really don't think Martial Arts is broken, not since Cobra Strike got it's damage put in anyway.  But a tweak to make it a little more aoe-y or some mitigation wouldn't suck.  The soft controls are cool, and the damage is "okay" (we all want more damage, just admit it).

Upon further review and reflection on other's thoughts about Storm Kick and cones, I'd like to amend this to say :

 

-Some +DEF to Storm Kick like Tankers and Brutes get would still be excellent, even at a lower level than the tanky archetypes get.  No cone though,  I understand what others mean now about cones and recharge/end.

-A cone for Crippling Axe Kick (particularly in it's Hook Punch configuration) makes more sense than it would in Storm Kick.  It'd be like Cross Punch.  Do this Instead :)

 

Focus Chi could be modified to be a light attack more like Dual Blades' Blinding Feint or Claws' Follow Up.  This could address it's "not enough damage compared to newer sets" issue.  Or you could do something new:

The power lets you pick offense or defense to go on your Storm Kick, like changing modes in Bio Armor or Ammo in Dual Pistols.  Choosing Defense gives you a DEF buff from your Storm Kick like Tanks/Brutes get, and Offense gives you a Follow up/Blinding Feint boost from your Storm Kick instead.  You could Focus your Chi towards Yin and Yang instead of Offense and Defense if you prefer flavor verbiage..

 

 

Focus Chi could also be given a port of one of Ninjutsu's Prayer/Meditation style alternate animations if left in it's current "Build Up" configuration.

 

Warrior's Challenge could use a Matrix-y style "come and get it" alternate animation, if anyone knows a suggestion.  Maybe something from Kinetic Melee or something?

 

On Punches and Kicks:

-An open handed pushing animation port  (like virtually all the T1 blastery attacks have) could be a cool alternate animation for Crane Kick what with the knockback and all. 

-Typhoon's Edge (without the dual blades, obvi) could be a cool alternate animation for Dragon's Tail.

 

Random:  Port Cobra Strike's uppercut animation as an alternate to Flight's Air Superiority.    Uppercuts can do Knockup, and it'd look "super."

 

Edited March 20, 2020 by Aracknight

[Galaxy Brain]

Turn Crane Kick into a conditional cone: if you trigger the knockback, you deal a line of damage as the target is flung back into the crowd.