Quick fix for Kheldian ATs

[Wavicle]

Give both ATs an inherent toggle (not slottable) that costs no end and can be up in any form, that gives a small amount of extra mez protection and defense and is a taunt aura and adds taunt to all attacks.  We can call it Astral Aggression/Ebon Aggression. Give the Dwarf forms an additional small defense bonus (and make it slottable with Defense sets). Increase the Damage cap for both ATs to 500%.  Done (for now, if more is needed later, fine).

 

This is a revised version of my earlier idea.

First, increase the Damage cap for both Kheldian ATs to 500%.

Next, make the human form toggles (the Res toggles, Shadow Cloak, Orbiting Death, Inky Aspect, Combat Flight, and Energy Flight, but NOT Phase Shift, Group Flight, or Quantum Acceleration; also most pool power toggles including Combat Jumping, Fighting pool, Leadership pool, but not Phase Shift, etc.) Suppress instead of detoggling when you switch forms.

Finally, give both ATs an inherent toggle (not slottable) at level 1 that costs no end, has no recharge or very short recharge, and can be up in any form, that you turn on if you want to tank, regardless of form. We can call it Astral Aggression/Ebon Aggression. It will have slightly different effects depending on your form.

In Human form the toggle will add a taunt aura to your Smashing/Lethal Resistance shield and add a taunt to most of your attacks, it will also give you a small amount of protection from Hold, Sleep, and Stun. Cannot be activated while currently mezzed.

In Nova form the toggle will give you a moderate damage penalty and you will not get a taunt aura but you will still get taunt in your attacks and the same small mez protection buff.

 

In Dwarf form the toggle will give you the taunt aura and a small bonus to defense (again, not slottable). When active the Warshade would also get taunt added to its Dwarf Mire and both ATs Dwarf Antagonize would get extended range.

That should do it. (Standard code rant, of course none of this is easy, and the numbers would have to be balanced correctly.)


EDIT: In retrospect, although I still think this is a cool idea, it isn't necessary.  Taunt aura/more punchvoke is not necessary.  Damage cap increase would be nice but not essential. Toggle suppression is essential.

Edited February 6, 2020 by sacredlunatic

[Saiyajinzoningen]

Your fix to an AT that is already so powerful, that the devs created unique random spawning mobs to specifically counter them, is to make them even stronger?.

Using IO's its quite easy to soft cap defenses.

dwarf form has a taunt already

squid form doesn't need the taunt

 

As far as mez protect goes there's a few ways this can be accomplished. 1st of all Both kheldians have an innate that can provide mez protection based on the their teammates. If that isn't enough then light form for peace-bringers have a mag 3 mez protection built in. This can be coupled with acrobatics (which has +2 mez protection) for a whopping 5 mez protect when solo. More than enough really. As for squid form, well squid are supposed to be blasterish and blasters have little to no mez protect.

 

That being said while kheldians have their issues this change isnt really necessary.

 

 

[Bossk_Hogg]

lol Khelds are NOT powerful enough to warrang special enemies. They're there for flavor.  Peacebringers suck ass until perma lightform and only then are they decent. Warshades mature a bit earlier, but are still nothing special.

 

The mez protection is a fucking joke, and you need to carry around half a team of controllers just to function. You need 2 to be able to resist a standard hold. It's shit design to have an AT with 3 armor toggles, melee attacks and no mez protection. Taking 2 jump powers to get a pittance of hold protection is insulting. VEATS get theirs for free, and actually provide benefits to the team. PB's get a lol worthy single target heal as their sole benefit. 

[Super Atom]

This is really random to be honest. It's already been thoroughly discussed on how to help Warshades and agreed upon by most warshade players. Peacebringers is another story but the most common answer is remove light forms crash.

 

For the sake of further debate, previous suggestions include

 

- Toggle suppression instead of them turning off during form switch. (Both PB/WS)

 

- Making Orbiting Death / Inky usable in dwarf form. (WS)

 

- Adding mezz protection to a human shield. (PB/WS)

 

- Dark Extraction/Photon  pet buff (WS/PB)

 

- Unchained rework (WS)

 

 

Edited January 22, 2020 by Super Atom
Fixed some spelling / formating

[Black Zot]

9 hours ago, Saiyajinzoningen said:

Your fix to an AT that is already so powerful, that the devs created unique random spawning mobs to specifically counter them, is to make them even stronger?.

 

Khelds do not even come close to being strong enough to justify having a hard counter pop up randomly among otherwise normal enemies.  Quants are an artifact of the same design paradigm that had characters struggling to take down 3 minions, and it's past time they joined the rest of Jack Emmert's stupid ideas in the garbage heap.

[Super Atom]

4 minutes ago, Black Zot said:

 

Khelds do not even come close to being strong enough to justify having a hard counter pop up randomly among otherwise normal enemies.  Quants are an artifact of the same design paradigm that had characters struggling to take down 3 minions, and it's past time they joined the rest of Jack Emmert's stupid ideas in the garbage heap.

They certainly don't warrant a specific enemy that kills them easily, but to remove it i think would be silly. The game is easy enough and while khelds aren't overpowered by any stretch i still don't think they should get tossed. I kind of like panicking a little when i see a quantum. Its special to khelds.

Edited January 23, 2020 by Super Atom

[Bossk_Hogg]

16 hours ago, Black Zot said:

 

Khelds do not even come close to being strong enough to justify having a hard counter pop up randomly among otherwise normal enemies.  Quants are an artifact of the same design paradigm that had characters struggling to take down 3 minions, and it's past time they joined the rest of Jack Emmert's stupid ideas in the garbage heap.

What, tankers having mutually exclusive armor toggles wasnt a good idea?! I'm kind of stunned that this game succeeded in spite of him. 

[Wavicle]

This is a revised version of my earlier idea.

First, increase the Damage cap for both Kheldian ATs to 500%.

Next, make the human form toggles (the Res toggles, Shadow Cloak, Orbiting Death, Inky Aspect, Combat Flight, and Energy Flight, but NOT Phase Shift, Group Flight, or Quantum Acceleration; also most pool power toggles including Combat Jumping, Fighting pool, Leadership pool, but not Phase Shift, etc.) Suppress instead of detoggling when you switch forms.

Finally, give both ATs an inherent toggle (not slottable) at level 1 that costs no end, has no recharge or very short recharge, and can be up in any form, that you turn on if you want to tank, regardless of form. We can call it Astral Aggression/Ebon Aggression. It will have slightly different effects depending on your form.

In Human form the toggle will add a taunt aura to your Smashing/Lethal Resistance shield and add a taunt to most of your attacks, it will also give you a small amount of protection from Hold, Sleep, and Stun. Cannot be activated while currently mezzed.

In Nova form the toggle will give you a moderate damage penalty and you will not get a taunt aura but you will still get taunt in your attacks and the same small mez protection buff.

 

In Dwarf form the toggle will give you the taunt aura and a small bonus to defense (again, not slottable). When active the Warshade would also get taunt added to its Dwarf Mire and both ATs Dwarf Antagonize would get extended range.

That should do it. (Standard code rant, of course none of this is easy, and the numbers would have to be balanced correctly.)

Edited January 26, 2020 by sacredlunatic

[Super Atom]

8 hours ago, sacredlunatic said:

This is a revised version of my earlier idea.

First, increase the Damage cap for both Kheldian ATs to 500%.

Next, make the human form toggles (the Res toggles, Shadow Cloak, Inky Aspect, Combat Flight, and Energy Flight, NOT Phase Shift, Group Fly, or Quantum Acceleration) Suppress instead of detoggling when you switch forms.

Finally, give both ATs an inherent toggle (not slottable) that costs no end and can be up in any form, that you turn on if you want to tank, regardless of form. We can call it Astral Aggression/Ebon Aggression. It will have slightly different effects depending on your form.

In Human form the toggle will give you a taunt aura and add a taunt to most of your attacks, it will also give you a small amount of protection from Hold, Sleep, and Stun.

In Nova form the toggle will give you a moderate damage penalty and you will not get a taunt aura but you will still get taunt in your attacks and the same small mez protection buff.

 

In Dwarf form the toggle will give you the taunt aura and a small bonus to defense (again, not slottable).

That should do it. (Standard code rant, of course none of this is easy, and the numbers would have to be balanced correctly.)

 

 

That would be terrible for tri-forms, the inherent. It's a lot less complicated than you're making it to be honest and thats not a stab at you.  (This is pure warshade talk, I'm not up to code on PB) maybe a peacebringer could chime in.

 

To improve dwarf's tanking ability, you add inky/orbiting death as being able to be on in dwarf.

 

To improve humans everything, you add supression to the toggles instead of turning them off. You add mez protection to their shield so that when you hot swap while tanking or soloing you aren't just stunned and unable to use abilities and forced into lobster where you slowly get whittled down because you have no way to use utility.

 

Squids pretty ok, they'd benefit from humans having mezz protection enough to not need much of a change and they don't really need mez protection to do anything.

 

As for the damage cap, at least for warshade it's incredibly easy to reach damage cap at all times nearly perma if not perma. Increasing it would be a little much imo, at least to 500%. Maybe an extra 50-75% could be ok but not much more so, they're suppose to be good at multi-tasking not overpowered.

Edited January 25, 2020 by Super Atom

[Wavicle]

Why would it be terrible for tri forms?

[Monos King]

7 minutes ago, sacredlunatic said:

Why would it be terrible for tri forms?

@Super Atom I am also curious. 

[presto2112]

I have 50 perma lf pb and a 50 tri form ws

 

 they are fine really. It would be very nice to not have to take the time to reactivate toggles when i change back to human tho.  This is so annoying that i either stay in human form or just leave the toggles off. Ofc that may be the point, forcing me to make those trade offs. 

[Doomrider]

10 hours ago, sacredlunatic said:

This is a revised version of my earlier idea.

First, increase the Damage cap for both Kheldian ATs to 500%.
 

Now that Tank's have had their damage cap increased, I can see some merit to this suggestion. It won't improve bottom end performance though.
 

 

10 hours ago, sacredlunatic said:

Next, make the human form toggles (the Res toggles, Shadow Cloak, Inky Aspect, Combat Flight, and Energy Flight, NOT Phase Shift, Group Fly, or Quantum Acceleration) Suppress instead of detoggling when you switch forms.
 

Yes, toggle suppression has been a long standing request from Kheld vets. Provided this mechanically can be achieved, I do believe it should extend to all toggles not just the above referenced ones. The toggles should not however, grant any effect while in Nova or Dwarf.

 

10 hours ago, sacredlunatic said:

Finally, give both ATs an inherent toggle (not slottable) that costs no end and can be up in any form, that you turn on if you want to tank, regardless of form. We can call it Astral Aggression/Ebon Aggression. It will have slightly different effects depending on your form.
 

This one... well. I don't think it's necessarily a bad suggestion but I don't think it was the intent to have Nova and Human forms have some form of punchvoke or built in taunts since that's what Dwarf form is for. I would rather improve Dwarf's aggro management. Perhaps giving the Dwarf form toggle a taunt aura and letting Dwarf Mire apply a taunt when you hit enemies with it just like Dwarf Flare does and just like Dwarf ST attacks do. 
 

 

10 hours ago, sacredlunatic said:

In Human form the toggle will give you a taunt aura and add a taunt to most of your attacks, it will also give you a small amount of protection from Hold, Sleep, and Stun.
 

OR Since Light Form already grants you some level of Mez Protection, you could sooner argue that Eclipse should do the same. I'm sure that won't satisfy many people, but honestly, Khelds not having mez protection is not that big a deal, there are other ways to get Mez Protection (BF's, Clarion, RoP, any number of ST mez protection granted by allies).

 

10 hours ago, sacredlunatic said:

 

In Dwarf form the toggle will give you the taunt aura and a small bonus to defense (again, not slottable).
 

Sure, why not.

Edited January 26, 2020 by Doomrider

[Wavicle]

Forgot to say toggle suppression would include Warshade Orbiting Death.

[Super Atom]

I think it'd be bad for tri-form because right now on teams you can kind of juggle aggro with other off tanks allowing you to go into human and use your utility without drawing too much fire, Humans not having mezz makes it risky and being forced into lobster without getting to use your utility would kind of defeat the tri-shade strengths. On a perma light form PB, it'd probably be great.

 

@monos1 @sacredlunatic

Edited January 26, 2020 by Super Atom

[Wavicle]

3 hours ago, Super Atom said:

I think it'd be bad for tri-form because right now on teams you can kind of juggle aggro with other off tanks allowing you to go into human and use your utility without drawing too much fire, Humans not having mezz makes it risky and being forced into lobster without getting to use your utility would kind of defeat the tri-shade strengths. On a perma light form PB, it'd probably be great.

 

@monos1 @sacredlunatic

The inherent toggle would have no end cost and no recharge, or very little recharge.  You could turn it on and off whenever you wanted.

Edited January 26, 2020 by sacredlunatic

[Super Atom]

1 minute ago, sacredlunatic said:

The inherent toggle would have no end cost and no recharge, or very little recharge.  You could turn it on and off whenever you wanted.

 

Yeah but it wouldn't help tri-form any, it would only further promote singular form play. Which is my issue with it

[Wavicle]

How so?  I made it so it works in all three forms, allows you to tank in all three forms, yet gives advantage to turning it off in Nova and Human in certain situations...

I specifically see it as an aid to multi form play.

Edited January 26, 2020 by sacredlunatic

[Super Atom]

7 minutes ago, sacredlunatic said:

How so?  I made it so it works in all three forms, allows you to tank in all three forms, yet gives advantage to turning it off in Nova and Human in certain situations...

you know for some reason i literally didn't see your "gives humans mez protection" part. Just excuse me.

 

@Doomrider my only problem with the other ways to get mez thing is sure on other squishes that makes sense but tri-forming is designed around hot swapping and you literally can't if enemies have holds/stuns on you when you drop from lobster to human. It just feels like bad design. You are right though, it's not THAT big of a deal and would probably be fine giving mez protection through eclipse. Jump in > eclipse is already the play so works out.

Edited January 26, 2020 by Super Atom

[Wavicle]

I think it would make human-only more viable from level 1, right now human form is pretty difficult until later, but I think it would really shine on multi form Khelds.

Edited January 26, 2020 by sacredlunatic

[Wavicle]

Do people feel like Form Toggle Suppression also needs to apply to pool powers such as CJ, Stealth, Leadership, Fighting, etc?  It hadn't occurred to me.

Maybe it should...

Edited January 26, 2020 by sacredlunatic

[Super Atom]

1 minute ago, sacredlunatic said:

Do people feel like Form Toggle Suppression also needs to apply to pool powers such as CJ, Stealth, Leadership, Fighting, etc?  It hadn't occurred to me.

 yes

 

I'd live without mez protection. Toggle suppression is a huge QOL imo

Edited January 26, 2020 by Super Atom

[Wavicle]

Slightly modified wording regarding toggle suppression to include most pool power toggles.

[Wavicle]

5 hours ago, Doomrider said:

Now that Tank's have had their damage cap increased, I can see some merit to this suggestion. It won't improve bottom end performance though.

Well, bottom end performance would be improved by being able to tank in any form. But hitting the caps is currently so easy with the passive inherent and self buffs, especially for WS, it almost would be a buff to the bottom end.

Edited January 26, 2020 by sacredlunatic

[Wavicle]

@Doomrider

When the toggle is active the Warshade would also get taunt added to its Dwarf Mire.

Edited January 26, 2020 by sacredlunatic